This is becoming pathetic. Like I said before, if you guys had answers, you’d have been falling all over yourselves to provide them. If for nothing else but to make sure a stake was driven into my highly revered Catholic beliefs. You however seem to be stumped this time around. What a shame. Your embarrassment is even beginning to embarrass me. I am a Christian after all – Roman Catholic at that – and so I cannot help but be compassionate.

Sound the clarion call. Get your buddies together. I don’t care if there are 3 of you or 300. You will all still be stumped because you cannot rewrite the bible. Alternatively, I suggest you ask your pastors. Perhaps they can help you ‘craft’ (see how I made a play on your word ‘crafty’? Cool innit?) a reply. Luckily, the weekend looms – the perfect opportunity if you missed mid-week fellowship.

When you have done your homework and feel ready for genuine engagement, I’ll be right here waiting. Bring it on! 

Pathetic. . . embarrassing. . . shame. . . is that all you're able to do?

I told you earlier - I'll iggy the hilarity of your desperations and ask
until you deal with the issues: answer my questions.

Glad to know that you're a Catholic - that's why I'm very interested
in your Romish answers. By scurrying off you haven't demonstrated
any interest for 'genuine engagement'. So, dress warm and sit down
to your homework. I'm not 3 or 300 - it's just me, so don't sweat
under your chin - just please address my enquiries. Or do I take it
that your Catholic pride has no answers at all, and the best anyone
could expect is the dribbling so far?

In any dialect you can understand, please Nutter, I'm waiting for your
answers to my questions.

Observers are worried 

Good. I thought as much - you simply have no answers.

Hey guys,

There is one thing you must understand when dealing with Roman catholics (cos i come from a staunch Roman catholic family - i'm a catholic but not the Roman kind).

They do not think the church should be subject to the Holy scrptures(bible). They will rather have the scriptures subject to the ancient Roman church tradition which they cherish so much.

They only refer to the scritures where necessary. So trying to knock out their beliefs using the bible wouldnt work.

It could only be by the demonstration of the Spirit and power.

Donnie, thank you for your observation. I'm very aware of all you've
stated, and that's why I've tried to follow the simple example of the
Lord Jesus: ask questions where people are trying to be pushy.

I haven't tried to knock out anyone's beliefs - it's either they tell us
what they think God said, or they're shown how their accusations
at others are untenable. The Word of God has the power to bring
conviction where necessary, and I don't have to worry about the
results.

mlks_baby didn't have to sweat it out - she had stated the same
things in a very fair manner, and there wasn't anything more to
add (IMO). To have tried to slice her statements out of context
was not helping the discussion any further - and I suppose she
made that clear enough in her last entry.

All the same, I respect whatever traditions anyone takes. What
settles it for me is the Word of God - not ideas in the fancy words
of men.

donnie:


They do not think the church should be subject to the Holy scrptures(bible). They will rather have the scriptures subject to the ancient Roman church tradition which they cherish so much.

They only refer to the scritures where necessary. 

Really?! Well done, Donnie! Clap for yourself.

Thank you; or dont you agree with me?

Bo, ma broder, I agree with you 109.5%!!

Their automatical belief in Jesus Christ as the Savior of the World is the basis of them being born again. And they were willing to die for their faith in Him.

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.  And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. -- Luke 10:17-20

The fact that their names were written in heaven shows that they had the greatest miracle of everlasting salvation of their souls which is greater than the temporary and spectacular victory over demons and this was before Jesus' death and resurrection.

12:19pm January 15, 30 C.E maybe. Wetin be your business, abi you wan organise gift for their buyday?

Image123:

12:19pm January 15, 30 C.E maybe. Wetin be your business, abi you wan organise gift for their buyday?

Hi image123, I hope all is well?

OLAADEGBU:

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.  And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. -- Luke 10:17-20

The fact that their names were written in heaven shows that they had the greatest miracle of everlasting salvation of their souls which is greater than the temporary and spectacular victory over demons and this was before Jesus' death and resurrection.

When was their names written in heaven ? The writing of names in the book of life is no guarattee for salvation. The truth is . Everybody's name is written in heaven from birth. But when a man dies without recieving christ , his name will be blotted out. I have heard people when leading sinners to christ say things such as " write my name in the book of life" its one of the errors based on ignorance. God does not write names in the book. God only delete names! When a man falls out of faith or a man dies without christ, his name will be deleted.

Now concerning the salvation of the apostles. Nobody got born again until Jesus was raised from the dead. They only got born again when Jesus ministered the spirit to them after resurrection.

Joagbaje:

When was their names written in heaven ?

When they got born again.

Joagbaje:

The writing of names in the book of life is no guarattee for salvation.

Really?

Joagbaje:

The truth is . Everybody's name is written in heaven from birth. But when a man dies without recieving christ , his name will be blotted out.

If that was the case what was the point of Jesus telling his disciples to rejoice that there names were written in heaven?  Are you saying that we can encourage every sinner to rejoice that his names are written in heaven?  What happened to the verse that says:

"I say to you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repents, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance." (Luke 15:7,10)

Here Jesus tells us that heaven reserves its rejoicing for sinners who repents.  What makes you think that is not when their names are written in the Lambs book of life if you are saying their names are already written from birth?

Joagbaje:

I have heard people when leading sinners to christ say things such as " write my name in the book of life" its one of the errors based on ignorance. God does not write names in the book. God only delete names! When a man falls out of faith or a man dies without christ, his name will be deleted.

Now concerning the salvation of the apostles. Nobody got born again until Jesus was raised from the dead. They only got born again when Jesus ministered the spirit to them after resurrection.

This is a big claim you made and big claims requires big proofs.  What is your proof?

When I said that  Names being written in the book does not guarantee salvation. It means that a name being there is subject to change. God deletes names.  I've not found a scripture where God is writing manes of people in the book but rather we have several scriptures that reveal God deleting names from the book . Because the name were all there.

Exodus 32:32-33
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. 

From the dialog above and other scriptures, names are not being written . It is evident rather that names already were written from the foundation of the world. Everything about our lives , purpose, callings ,etc were all written in heaven in the book of life. If a man backslides and fall out of faith. His name will be blotted out. If a man dies without being saved , his name will be blotted out. If a man gets saved and remain saved , his name will remains.

Revelation 3:5
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 

Psalms 69:28
28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. 

The only exception are the people who are servants of the beast.

OLAADEGBU:

Hi image123, I hope all is well?

Oga mi, all is very well o, hope that's safe to say before i'm dubbed as contrary to 'what Jesus prophesied'.lol

Jo
Is it not 'common sense' that if God deletes names, He must have written them in the first instance? You say you've not found A SCRIPTURE where God writes names. You just quoted one! The Exodus 32 passage says 'thy book which THOU HAST WRITTEN'.
BTW, what makes God to delete names? If the person repents again afterward, does the name get written again?

OLAADEGBU:

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.  And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. -- Luke 10:17-20

The fact that their names were written in heaven shows that they had the greatest miracle of everlasting salvation of their souls which is greater than the temporary and spectacular victory over demons and this was before Jesus' death and resurrection.

I think this is a very strong point. Considering subsequent posts I make the following points:

1. If any one has a scripture where God says He will delete names from the Book of Life, I will like to see it.
2. What God says is that He will not delete people's names from the Book of Life ---- i.e. assurance of salvation --- 'your name is in my book and will not be deleted from it'
3. Is God so fickle that today He will write a person's name in the Book of Life, tomorrow He will delete it, next tomorrow He will re-write it and the day after He will delete it again, rewrite it again etc etc ad infinitum?
4. Or is God one who knows His mind such that once He wrote a person's name in the Book of Life even before the foundation of the world He knew that that person's name would never be deleted from the Book?

Well no 4 is the God and the kind of God I believe in.

Image123:

Jo
Is it not 'common sense' that if God deletes names, He must have written them in the first instance? You say you've not found A SCRIPTURE where God writes names. You just quoted one! The Exodus 32 passage says 'thy book which THOU HAST WRITTEN'.
 BTW, what makes God to delete names? If the person repents again afterward, does the name get written again?

What I was saying was that God is not writing fresh names, names had been written already from the foundation of the world. God can only delete names now. We don't pray for him to write our names. He didn't promise to write our names , he only promise he will not delete certain peoples names

Revelation 3:5
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 

God doesn't delete and write again. A man's name is not deleted just because he sinned . His name can only be deleted because he has lost it forever. The bible talks about sin unto death and sin not unto death.

1 John 5:16-17
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin[ which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. 

The sin unto death is apostasy . There is no more remission or forgiveness  for such

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For[ it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put[ him] to an open shame. 

My point was in response to the fact that the apostles were not born again even though their names were written . They didn't get born again until jesus was raised from the dead and breath the holy spirit to them. Jesus was the first to be born again . Judas was among the people Jesus mentioned who's name were written , but being written is not a guarantee for salvation. We still have our choices to make. Judas still had his name deleted in the end! Even though it was written

@enigma
At your point 1,2,3 perhaps this is what you're looking for
Exodus 32v33. And the LORD said unto Moses, WHOSOEVER hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
He said any one who sins gets deleted. Dunno why Joagbaje says that it's only any one who dies in sin. I don't think God is fickle, depends on the perspective you're looking from. It seems it's man who is so fickle. It's just like a metal detector kind of door(if you pick up anything metallic, it detects and will not open. Drop the metal and it immediately opens). I don't think that the door is 'fickle', but the individual picking and dropping metals.
To point 4, of course God knows His mind. The unfortunate thing is our minds, very deceitful. What God's thinking and planning is often times far different from what we're thinking and planning. Jesus says abide, but if a man does not abide, he is cast forth. We are truly created in God's image, not as zombies, but with ability to CHOOSE.

@Joagbaje
Will look into your 'born again point' soon, but on this writing of names thing, let's try to understand it better. It seems from the passage OLAADEGBU quoted(Luke 10) and other scriptures that that list/book is not 'gbogbo ero'. It's a book for special people, righteous people, children of God. Like OLAADEGBU said, there'll be nothing to 'rejoice' about if it were not a special list. Hebrews 12v23(the CHURCH which are written in Heaven), Luke 10v20(your names are written in Heaven), Psalm 69v28(book of the living/life, written with the RIGHTEOUS), Philippians 4v3(those women, Clement also, and other fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life). This is a list one'll want to pray to God to add his/her name to be double-sure. So it's not erroneous to pray for it, not everyone has right to it.

Image123:

@enigma
At your point 1,2,3 perhaps this is what you're looking for
Exodus 32v33. And the LORD said unto Moses, WHOSOEVER hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
He said any one who sins gets deleted. Dunno why Joagbaje says that it's only any one who dies in sin. I don't think God is fickle, depends on the perspective you're looking from. It seems it's man who is so fickle. It's just like a metal detector kind of door(if you pick up anything metallic, it detects and will not open. Drop the metal and it immediately opens). I don't think that the door is 'fickle', but the individual picking and dropping metals.
To point 4, of course God knows His mind. The unfortunate thing is our minds, very deceitful. What God's thinking and planning is often times far different from what we're thinking and planning. Jesus says abide, but if a man does not abide, he is cast forth. We are truly created in God's image, not as zombies, but with ability to CHOOSE.

Moses was interceding for the people and asked for his name to be deleted for their sake. God responded that he would not delete the name of a righteous man but only the sinner. This blotting out is not for every wrong doing , but for someone who has lost his place . If names are wiped off , it is damnation forever .

Exodus 32:32-33
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

There is no place where the bible says That God re wrote names back. It's not every sin that required eternal damnation as I said in previous post. Besides only about two or three people were recorded to have been blotted out in the bible.

Blotting out is not for every wrong doing but for someone who has lost his place. If names are wiped off, it is damnation forever

Well maybe God later told you the above personally, but it's definitely not in that Exodus passage that you quoted.
So to the 'born again thing'. In a SHORT and simple layman language that can be understood by people like me, what does it mean to be born again? Is there a difference between having eternal life and been born again? Then, can someone commit sin and still have eternal life/be in the book of life despite the sin?

Hey, plus, who are the two or three people whose names were 'blotted out in the Bible'? And what's with the 'ONLY' condition you put in front, are they not enough?

Image123:

@Joagbaje
Will look into your 'born again point' soon, but on this writing of names thing, let's try to understand it better. It seems from the passage OLAADEGBU quoted(Luke 10) and other scriptures that that list/book is not 'gbogbo ero'. It's a book for special people, righteous people, children of God. Like OLAADEGBU said, there'll be nothing to 'rejoice' about if it were not a special list. Hebrews 12v23(the CHURCH which are written in Heaven), Luke 10v20(your names are written in Heaven), Psalm 69v28(book of the living/life, written with the RIGHTEOUS), Philippians 4v3(those women, Clement also, and other fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life). This is a list one'll want to pray to God to add his/her name to be double-sure. So it's not erroneous to pray for it, not everyone has right to it.

It looks as if Joagbaje has gone quiet on this one. Let's hope that it's just an oversight.

^^^^
Yes it is oversight, the names were already written, God is not writing fresh names, he only deletes names. So this is not a special list affair. Name been written is not assurance of salvation. The mane of judas was written in heaven , but is judas in heaven now? Even though he was on this SPECIAL LIST.

@Image123

I will get back to you later on the Moses/Exodus passage. In my view, once God has written a saint's name in the Book of Life, that name does not get deleted. Please remember God's promises to them e.g. give them a new name, write God's name on their heart, give them a white stone etc. Also, remember the glorious Romans 8.

Back to the apostles, how about John 2:11?

What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

Joagbaje:

The mane of judas was written in heaven , but is judas in heaven now? Even though he was on this SPECIAL LIST.   

Please explain why you think Judas is not in heaven now. For me, I will say nobody knows.

@enigma
The promises were/are for the overcomers. He that overcometh. On the apostles believing John 2, i guess you're addressing Jo? I didn't fully get that.

^^^ I very much knew you would say that. Question: can anyone overcome by himself?

Joagbaje:

^^^^
Yes it is oversight, the names were already written, God is not writing fresh names, he only deletes names. So this is not a special list affair. Name been written is not assurance of salvation. The mane of judas was written in heaven , but is judas in heaven now? Even though he was on this SPECIAL LIST.

Let's put the sending out of 70 in proper perspective and see whether Jesus sent believers out or a bunch of unbelievers/sinners who are yet to be converted.

He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.  And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.  And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.  Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. -- Luke 10:16-20

Let's take Jesus' testimony and break them down one by one if that goes well with you.

He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me. -- Luke 10:16

Was Jesus talking to sinners here or believers when He said the above sentence?

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

To the best of my knowledge there had never been a time in the OT up till the arrival of Jesus in His earthly ministry when demons were cast out of people but these demons which were evidently especially active while Christ was on earth, at least in Israel, and God took special measures against them, in response to prayer in the name of His Son, who had come to destroy the works of Satan (Hebrews 2:14).  Are you now saying that Jesus gave sinners powers to cast out these demons?

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. -- Luke 10:18,19

The vision of Jesus of satan falling as lightening which was both restrospective, present and future and a  token this was of His disciples' power over the demons.  Would Christ Jesus give this power to a bunch of sinners to preach gospel and cast out evil spirits?

Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. -- Luke 10:20

The miraculous signs accompanying the seventy on this mission, as well as on the apostles and others in the early church, were a special and temporary privilege, given for a special purpose (I Corinthians 13:, not to be compared at all to the far greater and everlasting gift of salvation.  You are yet to answer this question, why would Jesus tell them to rejoice that their names are written in heaven?  Remember that prior to Jesus' earthly ministry evil spirits had not been cast out by OT prophets, naturally the apostles and disciples would want to burst out with joy as they did but Jesus told them what they need to rejoice about -- that their names were written in heaven. Why?