^^^I visited the link above but unfortunately, the author circles around the matter without quite addressing it, making emotional arguments as to why the NIV is an okay translation. He talks about words being missing but ignores the question of what words are missing from the NIV. . .and that is important. Remember: "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."?

I used to use the NIV until I was dismayed to read this in its preface: "Because for most readers today the phrase "the Lord of hosts" and "God of hosts" have little meaning, this version renders them "the Lord Almighty" and "God Almighty." These renderings convey the sense of the Hebrew, namely, "he who is sovereign over all the 'hosts' (powers) in heaven and on earth, especially over the 'hosts' (armies) of Israel." For readers unacquainted with Hebrew this does not make clear the distinction between Sabaoth ("hosts" or "Almighty" and Shaddai (which can also be translated "Almighty", but the latter occurs infrequently and is always footnoted. When Adonai and YHWH Sabaoth occur together, they are rendered "the Lord, the Lord Almighty."

This set me to wondering: If the translators treated the substituted the Name of the Lord in this way; were there other substitutions they were silent about? This led me to search more about the NIV.

In fact the preface of the NIV answers that question; sad that I used it for so may years without having read it.  Here are some red flag phrases from its preface.

. . .the meaning of the writers of the Bible demands frequent modifications in sentence structures and constant regard for the contextual meaning of words.

. . .Sometimes vowel letters and vowel signs did not, in the judgment of the translators, represent the correct vowels for the original consonantal text. Accordingly some words were read with a different set of vowels. These instances are usually not indicated by footnotes.

Here some reasons why we should be cautious in using the NIV:

1. Whereas the King James Bible mentions the "Godhead" three times, the NIV has completely removed the word.
2. You won't find the word "propitiation" in the NIV either. In fact, all of the following words have been removed from the Bible by the NIV translators: regeneration, mercyseat, Calvary, remission, Jehovah, immutable, omnipotent, Comforter, Holy Ghost, Messiah, quickened, infallible. One of the most blasphemous omissions in the NIV is in John 3:16 where Jesus is no longer proclaimed as the "only BEGOTTEN Son of God."

This last omission is the door through which the WoF crowd like Joagbaje drive their doctrine of Jesus being just another born-again man through.

The NIV translators removed 64,576 words as compared to the King James Bible! Words are very important! God put “every Word” there for a reason, i.e., so we could live by them! As, “It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”

3. Modern Bibles are corrupt and; therefore, produce corrupt teachings (another example is the Message translation). Just the fact that the NIV translators completely removed the critically important Word, “GODHEAD” from Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20 and Colossians 2:9 is reason enough to put it aside!

4. The word "sodomite" is completely gone, as is the words: fornication, trucebreakers, winebibbers, carnal, slothful, unthankful, effeminate, backbiting, vanity, lasciviousness, whoredom, devils, Lucifer, damnation, brimstone, and the bottomless pit.

Consider this very telling omission of the NIV. Compare these two translations:

Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.(NIV)

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.(KJV)

Do you notice how great a change in meaning is effected by the NIV's translation? The Deity of Jesus  is denied! God is changed to a mere he. And yet in the original Greek manuscript the word there is "God." What possible technical reason pertaining to translation did the NIV translators have to substitute "he" fpr God?

There are many more reasons but these are just a few. I pray that as you search you will uncover the rest of the reasons as to why the NIV is an appalling translation that often leads to error.

P.S. Please Google "Dr. Marten Woudstra"

The "watering down" of the Bible remains a deliberate exercise. Many see it as "old" literature and their motive(s) in re-translating were mainly to make it easier to read in modern english and also in content. Many of the words Aletheia has used are "HARD" words and just as the jews could not bear them, targeted audiences today too can not. Many suppose to help God and thus change His Word. But these unknowingly follow the counsel of satan just as Peter thought he was in support of Christ by not wishing him death not knowing the counsel of God.

Also, there are our businessmen pastors who would have the Bible support their avarice and so perform surgery on it.

What really remains my problem truly is how Donnie abandoned his thread. And Agbaje started backing out carefully once he saw things were heating up here. I cannot imagine the level of pride that will make me hold onto a lie. I am assured in my Spirit that Agbaje has visited this thread, read and decided like satan, to leave us for a season. He's back but more cautious and doesn't make blanket statements as in the past - satan trying not to show his hand too much so walls don't fall in on him again. I still think Jo was misled & now is shaken at truth confronting too rapidly one after the other but pride makes it difficult to accept truth.

For the first time ever, it confronts me that one may not exclude the possibility that the Oyaks of this world may actually utilize demonic powers on these people. It is the only explanation that still makes sense to me with the level of delusion being displayed and now I remember the contents of posts from Enigma & Aletheia when someone said Yaks was a cultist. At that time, I dissented but now wonder if I didn't give the man too much latitude supposing him decent.

Does anyone remember what thread that was and what the link to it is? I'd like to go through it again please.

Is this the Donnie thread ? Let's cut the crab, There is enough to criticise any translation. Especially by religious people. Every translation will be criticised by them. So the criticism is not selling. The original manuscript couldn't be translated word for word. If you do it, you will alter the meaning it conveys, king James is one of the translations that tried to copy word for word but still ran into trouble because of the English syntax versus heberw and Greek . Certain words are missing. The English language is not rich enough to convey the meaning of all the passages. If you read  The first few versions of king James,you will not be able to make any sense of it.  Some alterations were later allowed, some words were added but in italics so as to show that they were not in the original manuscript. There are few occasions where a passage has more than one meaning in English.

So you have two options. Take it word for word  and lose the meaning,or substitute it to convey the true meaning and lose the originality of the syntactic  arrangements .The modern translations were necessary because king James will not want to modified too much, the newer translations are not too particular about Word for word interpretations, they are more concern about conveying the mind of the writer or the message the passage conveys. E.g. Message translation, amplified, living bible etc. There are passages that in English , it could mean more than one thing, eg 1cor 7:36. talking about the virgin.  NIV is honest enough to put the two opposing meanings in the footnote so that the reader can conclude by himself. A word in Greek will require a sentence to convey it. So if you want to criticise translations, you may get some applause . But we know better.     If you want to condemn NIV , get ready to condemn every translation. NIV is one translation that will add other schools of thoughts in it's footnote for the awareness of the scholar.

^^^ You don't cut "CRAB" dude - you eat Crabs. Substitute (right spelling) p for b in the word and you have it right.

Anyway, you came here to show us that Lazarus and the Rich man were humans who lived and walked the earth. You said the story by Jesus was NOT a parable but a real incidence.

Here's your chance - Prove it.

Joagbaje:

There were two different lazaruses, they are not thesame. But nuella was right , the two stories of the lazaruses are not parables, but real incidences. If it were a parable Jesus would have said " . . And the kingdom of heaven is like. . . Or likened to. . .

Oh I see. . . But first you should know I don't want to be discussing with you. You are not a discussant . You get things messy and if care is not taken , unintended wrong words will be used. I have on few occasions have asked God for forgiveness for certain use of words. So the best thing for me is to avoid as much as possible those who cause offences.
I will respond to the post, but I'm not discussing with you .

Your words are interesting. They again have an example in the Bible - Christ's discussions with the Religious Leaders.

They quickly realised He always wiped them out AND He too was quick to use words like "Generation of Vipers". Interestingly and just like me, He used these words only on the supposed "leaders" who ought to know but who perverted justice (just like you). For details/specifics of words He used, go to my posts on lazarus and the rich man - you will learn a lot there.

Anyway, they too decided to keep away from Him but they watched Him eagerly waiting for a slip. Ask yourself in the recesses of your mind if you too, do not watch me.

I know your type - the Bible is always true and it exposes you. You cannot bear the truth because it removes the power you have over men. Why not ask for a one on one debate with rules rather than this vapid "you're rude" rubbish? You say you ask God forgiveness? I don't FOR what I've said to you - how many times can you show me that Christ asked forgiveness for calling people "fools"? You know why He didn't? Because it was true. He applied scripture to discern and it was therefore scripturally true that they were "fools".

Answer the matter and stop trying to look righteous. Straining at a gnat yet swallowing a camel.

Hypocrite!

Well what you need to remember is the fact that I and christ are one. And you guys are the religious people. Time is vital. a spiritual man does not engage his precious time with unproductive venture. I'm only following scriptures.

 Ephesians 5:16
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

 Romans 16:17
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences [/b]contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and [b]avoid them.

You can go all the way in your yaaabiis with your kind ,but  Its not my turf ,
 
You should try do a study on what us called the fruits of the spirit.

Answer the matter and stop trying to look righteous. Straining at a gnat yet swallowing a camel.

Well at this time I may advise you to shove the question down your throat.

2 Timothy 2:23-24
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all[ men], apt to teach, patient, 

Why not show us where you see the Fruit of Christ and/or His Apostles as rampant greed, vanity, thuggery, fraud, prostitution etc. Fruit speaks louder than claims. An Apple tree is known by the fruit and not its look. So when you say you and Christ are one, what we will look for is the same type of fruit He exhibited.

- As I have shown above, Christ seemed to have a problem ONLY with the religious leaders of His day (Just like me)
- As I have stated above, Christ seemed to have NO aversion to calling a "fool" a "fool". He in-fact used worse language (Just like me)
- As anyone picking the Bible will see, Christ said "ONLY God is good". (Just like me). You, Agbaje, say Oyakilome is good. Or is he not?
- As anyone can see, Christ saidd His Kingdom was not of this WORLD. Because it was not His Domain (in the flesh), His Angels were quiet even at His torture. But you insist this world is yours and want the best of it. Are you following the Christ who denied this world
- As anyone can see, there is NO SINGLE record of any of Christ or His Apostles claiming wealth or health or long-life. Christ was poor HERE. Paul suffered HERE. Stephen was killed young. Indeed, it became a sign of Christians - they were persecuted. But you insist the best must be yours.
- As anyone can see, the poor were the thrust of Christ when He spoke of help (Just like me). You take from the poor to give the Rich.

ANY human, say a Muslim, coming into one of your congregations is likely to find what?

1. The prostitutes who he'd walked past the earlier night STILL in the clothes they wore to "work".
2. The person who 419ed him. Go read the comandclem thread and see how good an ambassador of CE your guyman friend "fyneguy" is.
3. Bizarre dressing - pastors wearing jeri-curls when the Bible asks even women to be modest and women dressed to "kill", as the "sluts" they are.
4. Thugs who will keep quiet if Jesus is abused but beat him to unconciousness if Chris is so much as questioned
5. An "Atmosphere for Collections" where there will be 30 offerings.

Fruit - tells more than claims. What you accuse me of is reflected in Christ. But I see nothing of Him in your delusions.

@ aletheia and Nuclearboy

Let me state upfront that I share you brethren's concern about adulterations of the Bible ---- especially deliberate adulterations by people with an agenda. However, I will say upfront also that I still remain sympathetic to the NIV and will not place it in the same category as certain "study" or "devotional" Bibles and various other poor versions or translations.

With regard to the point about 60000 odd words missing from the NIV, I think serious thought should be given to the question (and evidence for) whether these words are/were likely to have been in the autographs or are/were likely to have been additions to the autographs e.g. scribal margin notes, clarifications and emendations.

For example, I am a big defender of the Johannine Comma as you would see on the thread "Was the Trinity Invented at a Council Meeting"; however, at the same time, I will not hold my hand to my heart and tell you that the Comma was definitely in the autograph.

Again. like you I am very wary of many Bible versions/translations; in fact some will be surprised that I am very careful with the use of the Amplified; but I suggest that you my brethren look into the case of the NIV carefully again -  though having said that I have not yet seen the latest (2010?) NIV.


@ Nuke

I think Joagbaje has been well exposed in this thread, hence his cowardly initial running away and current wriggling to avoid the critical issues. Better leave him to his folly and pray to God that one day he will be delivered from his slavery to his belly which has turned him into a deceiver and which is making him so cowardly to face biblical truths ---- prefering instead to choose the Rhapsody of erRoRs and WoF doctrine above the Bible.

aletheia:

. . .  P.S. Please Google "Dr. Marten Woudstra"

Hi again bro

I am familiar with the issue; but remember that the NIV  defenders have pointed out (at least alleged) similar about King James.

Trust things are going well over "there" where you are currently. 

^^Things are going well, thanks be God. Thank you for the concern, my brother.

I would have given the NIV the benefit of doubt but for their translation of 1 Tim 3:16, for I can not understand how the meaning is made clearer by substituting "he" for God when the Greek autographs have theos in that verse. The NIV is a consensus translation and it would appear that the translators wanted to accommodate those who deny the Deity of Jesus. Same reason they mistranslated John 3:16.

Having said that: I would urge all those using it to exercise extreme caution.

@Enigma:

Interestingly, I use the NIV and have held on to it for almost 2 years but for the exact reason Aletheia stated above. I used the KJV for 2 decades and NIV was initially a shock. Time has mellowed my feeling about it which is why I wrote above that the idea for some translators was to make it easier to read (NIV is I believe, one such example). Sadly, Simon Peter also thought he was supporting Christ when he didn't wish his crucifixion. We all know how Jesus saw that "support". For that reason, I stand by Aletheia and even if it was inadvertent, NIV becomes such as would make Christ say "Get behind me, satan". It is a bad and misleading translation.


On Jo, its obvious. Look at the rat coming here and making things worse for himself turning it into a personality issue. My first feelings about him on NL were simply of boastful but harmless posts but pride soon showed and we know that pride is to be found only in those "babes" God hasn't dealt with or with strangers to God. Seeing as God deals jealously with His Own mature people, it started to look more and more like this (he) wasn't a possession of God. Subsequent events practically confirm this as fact.

I have such people in my own family. Lazy people who dream big but work little and cannot handle the seed-time and harvest principle (time lag). They want all things now and the ministry seems to offer an opportunity. Learn to lie, learn to scare people (Touch not my anointed etc), put yourself up there and presto - you have a following. God keeps holding out His Hands patiently and they come to believe He is toothless and requires only for them to say the cursory "forgive me Father" (He already showed that above) for all to be canceled. Time puts them in a trap of their own making and the fear of coming out to face the unknown soon supersedes the fear of God. At such time, they have actively come into "me rather than God" and so they are rebelling, know it or not.

I had hoped Jo would tire, calm down and quietly slow down and out. That would have shown a sincere spirit and it was worth it allowing him quietly back out. But he wants to test his doctrinal foundation. So be it. I assume it will pan out as he has said above. Cowards, rats, thieves and liars find excuse - just like the Pharisees with Christ, they ALWAYS turn their backs.

But he's somewhere right now, furiously looking for material to rebut "the Parable" concept. He will likely not come back but if he does, watch out for some childish stuff that will only make it look like he struggled plus of course, the 419 "idiots" Battalion will be at his back cheering him even as within him, his own heart sinks knowing he is in the wrong. But still, he hardens his heart due to pride. This year will expose them totally. I ask this of the Almighty and know you do too.

@ nuclear butt
ANY human, say a Muslim, coming into one of your congregations is likely to find what?

1. The love-peddlers who he'd walked past the earlier night STILL in the clothes they wore to "work".

How come you know so much to the point you know they wear the same clothes to work?

 

2. Bizarre dressing - pastors wearing jeri-curls when the Bible asks even women to be modest and women dressed to "kill", as the "sluts" they are.

You always spew the word 'slut' in such a manner to suggest you have had encounters with them,
Have you?
Also how did you know all the sisters in CEC are sluts?

3. An "Atmosphere for Collections" where there will be 30 offerings.

Are you sure you are not personally running an organization of theft,this is the first time am hearing of this.

^^^^^
you have time o, the guy is always dreaming of prosti.tutes , and loves talking of breasts. Filthy minds that needs renewal or a complete regeneration. Playing with dirty filthy words that he enjoys alone. Hus postings only reveal a lifestyle.

A lifestyle that does not depict Christianity and what christ stands for.

1 Timothy 4:12
12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

Joagbaje:

Leave inanities. You came here for a purpose - face it!

Even if I talk about it, at least we all know it is you and yours that does it. Oyakilome is the only well-known pastor known in Nigeria to have a personal immorality issue even if we don't talk about it often

Shame is not allowing you answer the matter? Why not call upon the "big boys" to help you out? Vale should do better or what do you think?

BTW, I like your new style. You carefully choose topics now and avoid "money", "prosperity" or topics that "need" to be interpreted. Are you afraid your "gods" shallowness is so easily exposed and so want to keep issues to clear cut matters?

Fear is truly a weapon

Where is newmi? Thus boy of yours is looking for some attention o.

@Nuclearboy
My boy nuclearbonboi  you know my biggest concern for you is that almost always  when am tempted to initiate a thought process of considering you as making sense then the desperate obsession of the character of your spirit to patronize foolishness and express the intensity of its corruption show up. You lack the decency to be called a Christian remember l have asked you time and time without number: of what value is your life to the kingdom of God.

No wait a minute bonboi; please tell us at least in all your ignorance you should know this, what is God's agenda for the church on earth today as far as the gospel of Jesus Christ is concerned.

Enigma:


I think Joagbaje has been well exposed in this thread, hence his cowardly initial running away and current wriggling to avoid the critical issues. Better leave him to his folly and pray to God that one day he will be delivered from his slavery to his belly which has turned him into a deceiver and which is making him so cowardly to face biblical truths ---- prefering instead to choose the Rhapsody of erRoRs and WoF doctrine above the Bible.

I like your feeling of importance. . Except for the fact that you're on the wrong side of the fence. Saul did worse than you . You will come out of it .

No answer? No "teaching" us babes? Just hiding so you escape facing reality?

@newmi
One should rather use ones  time productively to tell the untold about the love of Jesus than argue endlessly with  siting docks.The man of God  Pastor chris has declared this month a month of soul winning. How have you guys gone in reaching others with the gospel?

Joagbaje:

Where is newmi? Thus boy of yours is looking for some attention o.

Sorry Jare mo wa, l was just watching proceedings hoping to at least make some sense from that my bonboi's posts but the boy dey fall my hand
This my bonboi is fulfilling scripture
Proverbs 22:15
"Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of corectionshall drive it far from him"

This is another concern that l have for my bonboi: When will he grow up!!!

nuclearboy:

No answer? No "teaching" us babes? Just hiding so you escape facing reality?

Here is your answer dude

Proverbs 26:4
4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Joagbaje:

Here is your answer dude

Proverbs 26:4
4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

@ Nuclearbonboi
don't worry my boy there's hope for you 

Joagbaje:

@newmi
One should rather use ones time productively to tell the untold about the love of Jesus than argue endlessly with siting docks.The man of God Pastor chris has declared this month a month of soul winning. How have you guys gone in reaching others with the gospel?

A bi you right afterall its vain talk arguing with the bonboi.
You what it was really by the Holy Ghost that Pastor Chris decleared this month as the month of soul winning because it couldn't be any more timely and l have numerous testimonies to that respect which l know you'd love to hear.

Still no answer? Still hiding to escape facing reality - that oyaks  and the central executive committee are no different from fraudsters actively swindling people?

"God gave them over to strong delusion, that they should believe a lie Oyaks"

Joagbaje:

@newmi
One should rather use ones  time productively to tell the untold about the love of Jesus than argue endlessly with  siting docks.The man of God  Pastor chris has declared this month a month of soul winning. How have you guys gone in reaching others with the gospel?

Let me share my experience with nairalanders
During our monthly communion with Pst Chris, he declared the month of February as a month of soul winning.
And as at this morning i had not won any soul, i told myself no, got up early, got dressed and headed for the road,just to talk to people about Jesus
As i approached the road, i wondered to myself if i could make it as the road was deserted
Immediately, i saw a man approaching me, i greeted him , got into a conversation with him and like play like play won him over to Christ
Immediately somebody highlighted from a bike beside me, i did the same talking to him and got him converted, another bike man was just there watching and i got him saved too.
What an experience, under 30mins i won 3 souls and the joy of it too

OHHH YEEAH!

newmi:

l have numerous testimonies to that respect which l know you'd love to hear.

Pls hit the botton, I love to hear such testimony on soul winning , some time Wasters too can learn one or two things on how to make their lives meaningful  .

nuclearboy:

BTW, I like your new style. You carefully choose topics now and avoid "money", "prosperity" or topics that "need" to be interpreted. Are you afraid your "gods" shallowness is so easily exposed and so want to keep issues to clear cut matters?

Fear is truly a weapon  

The topics that he posts are still subtle forms of the prosperity gospel. It is true that we can view some of them positively as "encouragement"; it is also true that there is some biblical truth to parts of some of them. However, the tactics of the prosperity preachers is to say things that will draw the customer in: "your dreams will always mean good even if they are scary" (whereas in truth some dreams could be warnings or even preparations for things to come); the tactic is to say nice, soothing and "encouraging" things. That is all well and good --- except it needs to be balanced with biblical truths and reality --- and especially that the Christian journey is a tough and challenging journey. That Jesus Christ has assured of the ending does not diminish the difficulties on the road ---- whereas, ultimately, the subtle message of the topics being posted is to diminish the reality of the difficulties of the journey in order to help sustain the sweet falsehood of the prosperity "gospel".

Check all the topics in recent times - possibly even since he started posting them - they are all basically "feel good" messages. Yes, "feel good" is part of Christianity (especially 'joy') but not "feel good" with the same agenda as the prosperity "gospel".

^^True talk.

What I actually meant was that he is now being much more careful. The boasts of the past are now in the past and I wager he will rebut this sentence with a "boast". But it will be watered down since he knows he will be used to wipe the floor.

I agree that warnings can come but usually to the "person inside". These people are outside and they wouldn't know a warning or guidance if it broke 6 teeth with a shovel. So at their level, the sermon made sense. And of course, the multitude never could handle truth - its always too hard

Enigma:

The topics that he posts are still subtle forms of the prosperity gospel. It is true that we can view some of them positively as "encouragement"; it is also true that there is some biblical truth to parts of some of them. However, the tactics of the prosperity preachers is to say things that will draw the customer in: "your dreams will always mean good even if they are scary" (whereas in truth some dreams could be warnings or even preparations for things to come); the tactic is to say nice, soothing and "encouraging" things. That is all well and good --- except it needs to be balanced with biblical truths and reality --- and especially that the Christian journey is a tough and challenging journey. That Jesus Christ has assured of the ending does not diminish the difficulties on the road ---- whereas, ultimately, the subbtle message of the topics being posted is to diminish the reality of the difficulties of the journey in order to help sustain the sweet falsehood of the prosperity "gospel".

Check all the topics in recent times - possibly even since he started posting them - they are all basically "feel good" messages. Yes, "feel good" is part of Christianity (especially 'joy') but not "feel good" with the same agenda as the prosperity "gospel".

Wrong! My personal posts since January has been about personal salvation then,Prayer and intercession then I moved to  "The great commission" which is soul winning . Every Christian need to wake up to that responsibility . Others have been teachings of pastor chris which is random e.g  About your place in christ , your authority , inheritance ,holy spirit etc