What is worship? I ask this because I am currently reading the Qu'ran and I read the passage where Allah tells Iblis to 'prostrate' to Adam. In the notes at the bottom of the page it said Prostration is not worship because only God is deserving of worship.

This then reminded me of something that I think Lady said regarding the saints and Mary. That they are 'honoured' but not worshipped.

Then the subject of prayer came up and she pointed out that prayer just means petition which is true. So prayer is not worship. Talking to God is not worshipping God.

(It might not have been Lady that said these things so I apologise in advance if so, but I do recall reading these things on this forum).

So the Question I ask is: What is Worship? What are it's defining characteristics? When are you worshipping someone and when are you just hailing him. Is the injunction not to bow to anything but god an injunction against worshipping anything other than God?

Furthermore I think that this is a very important issue because if we were made to worship God then it is important that we know that this activity is and how to do it.

Pastor AIO:

What is worship? I ask this because I am currently reading the Qu'ran and I read the passage where Allah tells Iblis to 'prostrate' to Adam. In the notes at the bottom of the page it said Prostration is not worship because only God is deserving of worship.

This then reminded me of something that I think Lady said regarding the saints and Mary. That they are 'honoured' but not worshipped.

Then the subject of prayer came up and she pointed out that prayer just means petition which is true. So prayer is not worship. Talking to God is not worshipping God.

(It might not have been Lady that said these things so I apologise in advance if so, but I do recall reading these things on this forum).

So the Question I ask is: What is Worship? What are it's defining characteristics? When are you worshipping someone and when are you just hailing him. Is the injunction not to bow to anything but god an injunction against worshipping anything other than God?

Good post. What is prayer and what is worship? Prayer is the act of opening up ones spirit to the power of God. It is that activity in which man seeks and gets connected with the power of God. Prayer is not only a petition. However most people see prayer as petition since they always have one thing or the other to ask God. For instance there is a prayer of thanksgiving. In reality, if one leaves according to the will of God, he or she will in time have no petition to put to God since all that he or she needs for his life is already provided by God. Thus each time he opens his soul to God, only gratitude and thanks to God wells up within him. His entire life then becomes a prayer of gratitude to God, every action, every thought, every stirring of the spirit is filled and pulsated with gratitude to God.

Worship belongs to God alone. Worship require a recognition of the laws of God, and obedience to these laws. He or she who in all his activities lives according to the commandments of God practices the true worship. That worship should be an integral part of the person and will be evident in his thoughts, words, actions, motives etc. It will also be evident in his or her workplace, sport arena, and in every day life, not just on sundays or fridays in his church, temple or mosque. Sympolism is not worship, it is intended to help the man or woman gazing at such symbols to gain greater inner concentration and open him or herself to the power of God. Thus religious symbolism is a good thing provided it does not degenerate into worship of a material or non material object. Thus if going to the mountain, the sea, a temple or looking at a crucifix, a warfar, helps the person to have the concentration necessary to connect to the power of God, then it is good sympolism. However if the individual sees the almighty God in these physical or non physical objects and expect divine favours from such objects, then it is IDOLATORY. Thus if a man prostrates before a carven image, another before the sun, another before a monstrance, another before an angel and another before a non-material form that he conceptionalize in his mind, it is idolatory if they see in all these things the living God and expect divine powers or blessings from such objects.

M_nwankwo I agree with every point you've made. The most perfect worship that you can give God is to live in the fullness of the nature which he designed for you to live. It is your life and absolutely everything that you do that is the act of worship. Obedience is greater than sacrifice, Righteous living in greater than any amount of ceremonialism. To find God's plan for your life and to live accordingly is the ultimate worship, greater than the church attendances, the tithes, the long prayer meetings, prostratations of the body and the intellect etc. . .

Still, too many of us are caught up in the outward forms of religion and we need yet to learn to worship in Spirit and in truth.

We are to proclaim the Word of God (1 Tim. 4:13). We are to respond gratefully to the truth of the Word of God (Ex. 24:3). We are to remember the Lord's sacrifice through the celebration of communion (1 Cor. 11:24, Acts 2:46, 47). We are to live godly lives (1 Cor. 11:2). We are to sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs (Eph. 5:19). We are to pray in the Spirit (Eph. 6:18). We are to present our entire selves to God (Rom. 12:1). We are to offer a sacrifice of praise (Heb. 13:15). We are to confess the name of God (Heb. 13:15). We are to do good things (Heb. 13:16). We are to be generous and share with others (Heb. 13:16).

= WORSHIP

Cayon:

We are to proclaim the Word of God (1 Tim. 4:13). We are to respond gratefully to the truth of the Word of God (Ex. 24:3). We are to remember the Lord's sacrifice through the celebration of communion (1 Cor. 11:24, Acts 2:46, 47). We are to live godly lives (1 Cor. 11:2). We are to sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs (Eph. 5:19). We are to pray in the Spirit (Eph. 6:18). We are to present our entire selves to God (Rom. 12:1). We are to offer a sacrifice of praise (Heb. 13:15). We are to confess the name of God (Heb. 13:15). We are to do good things (Heb. 13:16). We are to be generous and share with others (Heb. 13:16).

= WORSHIP

Is it not possible to outwardly demonstrate all these things without coming close to the true worship of God?

Oh yeah! . . and the bit about rights . . . please don't go pilfering religious concepts that you obviously have no understanding of.

You think? whahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Cayon:

You think? whahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Well I can go around preaching and singing hymns and speaking in tongues (is that what you meant by praying in spirit), taking communion and confessing his name like many others do but in a superficial way. However you hit the nail right on the head when you say 'We are to present our entire selves to God' Rom (12:1). I would actually call it a sacrifice, we are to sacrifice our entire selves to God, will of God.

Please excuse me but my last post prior to this one was a mistake meant for another thread.

WORSHIP: IT MEANS BY PRAISING HIM, HOUR GOD AS OUR LORD AND PERSONAL SAVIOR.
WE WILL PRAISE HIM BECAUSE HE IS THE CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH.

WORSHIP: IT MEANS BY  PRAISING HIM, HOUR GOD AS OUR LORD AND PERSONAL SAVIOR.
WE WILL PRAISE HIM BECAUSE HE IS THE CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH.

Well, can we conclude that there is a lot more to worship than mere prostration?

Worship=arzzz-kissing or bootlicking.
Only a sadistic divinity would require that of it's subjects to do it's damn job.
I only thank my GOD for my good fortune. . .he does not get worshipped.
If he treats me well. . .I thank him.
Just like I do my Earthly parents.
If he misbehaves . . . he gets to hear a lot of 'bit-chin' from me too if not 'cussin' too!

Worst case scenario. . .we shall all die. Are you ready?
Fear of the unknown is for the un-educated and cowardly.
Not my kind of God! Hallelujah!

I do not worship the God of intimidation, hypocrisy and Psychophancy. . .so is the portrait of YOUR Christian God!
Twa!!!!

Worship is a spiritual response due to a love for God, often carried out via acts of reverence. It is a continuous culture of respect for God and his purposes.

@PAstor AIO; « on: June 19, 2008, 10:49 AM »
[Quote]What is worship? I ask this because I am currently reading the Qu'ran and I read the passage where Allah tells Iblis to 'prostrate' to Adam. In the notes at the bottom of the page it said Prostration is not worship because only God is deserving of worship.[/Quote]Allah never addressed Iblis directly, but Angel He addressed. Iblis, a jinn not an angel happened to be in the crowd of Angels when Allah addressed them. Therefore, Iblis was inclusive in the thing that Allah commanded the Angels to do. If you notice, all the Angels prostrated in obedience to the Command of Allah. You need to go to Surah Araf to see the arrogance of Iblis. Then you need to go to verse 54 or so of Surah Kahf [The Cave] to see what being Iblis is.

@PastorAio; that ^^^ prostration to Adam [as] was not worship. But the obedience to the Command of Allah for them to prostrate was. Hence every obedience to Commandment is proper and correct worship.

Most Hebrew and Greek words that can denote worship can also be applied to acts other than literal worship. However, the context determines in what way the respective words are to be understood.
One of the Hebrew words conveying the idea of worship (ʽa·vadh′) basically means “serve.” (Ge 14:4; 15:13; 29:15) Serving or worshiping Yahweh required obedience to all of his commands, doing his will as a person exclusively devoted to him. (Ex 19:5; De 30:15-20; Jos 24:14, 15) Therefore, for an individual to engage in any ritual or act of devotion toward any other gods signified his abandoning true worship.—De 11:13-17; Jg 3:6, 7.
Another Hebrew term that can denote worship is hish·ta·chawah′, which primarily means “bow down” (Pr 12:25), or do obeisance. Whereas such bowing could at times simply be an act of respect or of courteous regard toward another person (Ge 19:1, 2; 33:1-6; 37:9, 10), it could also be an expression of worship, indicating one’s reverence and gratitude to God and submission to his will. When used with reference to the true God or false deities, the word hish·ta·chawah′ is at times associated with sacrifice and prayer. (Ge 22:5-7; 24:26, 27; Isa 44:17) This would indicate that it was common to bow down when praying or offering sacrifice
The Hebrew root sa·ghadh′ (Isa 44:15, 17, 19; 46:6) basically signifies “prostrate oneself.” The Aramaic equivalent is usually associated with worship (Daniel 3:5-7, 10-15, 18, 28), but it is used at Daniel 2:46 to refer to King Nebuchadnezzar’s paying homage to Daniel, prostrating himself before the prophet
Let us take note that when ever d word worship is used it doesn’t always literally mean rendering service & sacrifice to a deity just as we would do to Yahweh the only true God…, it also means service rendered to kings, prostrating b4 older persons or lords, bowing down, reverence etc…,
In d past & till today people always bow down,prostrate, to there kings or traditional chiefs or oba’s, the word worship can also be used to describe such acts…, lets always remember that d context should always determine how we use & understand d word worship, because it means a lot of things, we should know when to distinguish when the word worship is used in connection with Yahweh & all other beings, be it spirit beings or humans or false gods….lets always remember that only Yahweh deserves our exclusive devotion(worship)…Jesus agreed to that when he told satan at Mt 4:10 that only Yahweh deserves our full devotion & worship…
For Trinitarians who always quote scriptures saying Jesus was worshipped & so it means Jesus was God, this whole research is for u…all d quotations from Hebrews 1:6,matthew 14:33 etc…all shows Jesus was respected & revered, prostrated at his feet not literally given worship that belongs to his Father(Yahweh)…even philipians2:9 & 10 explains all what it meant when people worshiped Jesus or that Jesus should be worshiped(bend down, prostrate, respect,revere), that scripture shows that every knee shall bow down to Jesus as Yahwehs king designate, the greek word pro·sky·ne′o is what is used both in Hebrews :1:6 & in matthew 18:26 quoted below and it corresponds to the Hebrew word hish·ta·chawah, Yahweh will not elevate & annoint his son & then allow him to be literally given worship that belongs to him alone(Yahweh), Jesus knew his position & will never assume himself to be equal with his Dad, thereby claiming worship belonging to his Father
For further clarification on this word worship lets also see matthew 18:26…
*Kjv reads::the servant therefore fell down & worshipped him,saying,Lord have patience with me & I will pay u all
*NIV reads::the servant fell on his knees b4 him.’be patient with me’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything
*Weymouth new testament. Reads::the servant therefore falling down, prostrated himself at his feet &entreated him ‘only give me time ‘he said’ and I will u the whole
Ofcus the king here wasn’t literally worshiped but was revered & was shown full respect by d slave by his bowing down…all isrealite kings were worshipped becos all isrealites did obeiscance or bowed down b4 them…,
Lets always know when to read extra ordinary meanings into the word “worship”

Sweetnecta:

@PAstor AIO; « on: June 19, 2008, 10:49 AM »Allah never addressed Iblis directly, but Angel He addressed. Iblis, a jinn not an angel happened to be in the crowd of Angels when Allah addressed them. Therefore, Iblis was inclusive in the thing that Allah commanded the Angels to do. If you notice, all the Angels prostrated in obedience to the Command of Allah. You need to go to Surah Araf to see the arrogance of Iblis. Then you need to go to verse 54 or so of Surah Kahf [The Cave] to see what being Iblis is.

LOL!! My brother, If I invite guests to dinner in my house and when I invite the guests to sit down at the table and you just happen to be amongst them, you'll be making a big mistake to think that I was addressing you.

For instance, say you just happened to walk into my home on some other business and then you recognised one of my guests and you start chatting with him, and at the point I announce that everybody should come and sit down at the table. If you had any gumption or even the small modicum of commonsense you will at that point excuse yourself and depart. If you presume to come and sit down at the table simply because you were amongst the people being addressed you could well get the biggest shock of your life, especially when you consider the kind of mouth I have.

So saying that Iblis was amongst the angels when they were commanded is poor. All Iblis had to do was raise his hand and say, 'Allah, I'm sure you didn't mean me so if you don't mind, I'll be on my way'.
Every command is issued with INTENT. The issue is simply. Did Allah intend to command Iblis, or was it by chance?

Sweetnecta:

@PastorAio; that ^^^ prostration to Adam [as] was not worship. But the obedience to the Command of Allah for them to prostrate was. Hence every obedience to Commandment is proper and correct worship.

Okay o! So prostration is not worship. I'll remember that next time you try to elevate muslim worship by saying it is because they prostrate and that is what makes it superior to christian worship.

@Pastor AIO: « #17 on: Today at 05:40:54 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 11:29:47 PM
@PAstor AIO; « on: June 19, 2008, 10:49 AM »Allah never addressed Iblis directly, but Angel He addressed. Iblis, a jinn not an angel happened to be in the crowd of Angels when Allah addressed them. Therefore, Iblis was inclusive in the thing that Allah commanded the Angels to do. If you notice, all the Angels prostrated in obedience to the Command of Allah. You need to go to Surah Araf to see the arrogance of Iblis. Then you need to go to verse 54 or so of Surah Kahf [The Cave] to see what being Iblis is.

LOL!! My brother, If I invite guests to dinner in my house and when I invite the guests to sit down at the table and you just happen to be amongst them, you'll be making a big mistake to think that I was addressing you.[/Quote]If you are a teacher and you command all the male students to be quite while eating. The lone female student began to be loud. This is an example among mankind since teacher is an authority over students. An males are different from females, even though there is a tomboy female in the company of the boys. See?


[Quote]For instance, say you just happened to walk into my home on some other business and then you recognised one of my guests and you start chatting with him, and at the point I announce that everybody should come and sit down at the table. If you had any gumption or even the small modicum of commonsense you will at that point excuse yourself and depart. If you presume to come and sit down at the table simply because you were amongst the people being addressed you could well get the biggest shock of your life, especially when you consider the kind of mouth I have.[/Quote]Fortunately, you are a powerless soul to me, insignificant that i simply can ignore, even if were to be living in London. That is completely different from the situation of God and creations in heavens and on earth and in between. If you read the Quran, God says "if I kill Jesus and . . ." yet the christians take Jesus to be God. It tells you that the Real God has Control over things. Before the condition of Command to Prostrate to Adam [as] was made, God said "I know what you do not know" to the Angels. At the end of the day, it was the creation of Adam that brought about to light the evils that lurk in the inside of Iblis, who was renamed Shaytan the moment he became accursed.


[Quote]So saying that Iblis was amongst the angels when they were commanded is poor. All Iblis had to do was raise his hand and say, 'Allah, I'm sure you didn't mean me so if you don't mind, I'll be on my way'. [/Quote]Well, Allah did not inspire Shaytan to excuse himself because it was time that Allah exposed the evil of satan. PastorAIO, yo are wet behind your ears by your thinking. When the time comes, the time actually came because Allah has decreed it. Everything must happen as planned and satan continued on the issues of Adam and his progeny piled up wrong and wrong and wrong upon wrong. Have you ever seen a person who Angel of death is removing his soul and refused to yield it?


[Quote]Every command is issued with INTENT. The issue is simply. Did Allah intend to command Iblis, or was it by chance?[/Quote]The intent was to exposed the evil satan as evil, while he was pretending to be Ibis the good jinn. Did Allah intend to make Adam and Eve live on earth while He created them in heaven? Yes. At the end of the day they did things that warranted them to be sent out of Paradise to the earth. But they sort forgiveness while satan piled up sin upon sin.


[QUote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 12:00:03 AM
@PastorAio; that ^^^ prostration to Adam [as] was not worship. But the obedience to the Command of Allah for them to prostrate was. Hence every obedience to Commandment is proper and correct worship.

Okay o! So prostration is not worship. I'll remember that next time you try to elevate muslim worship by saying it is because they prostrate and that is what makes it superior to christian worship.[/Quote] Read it, again. That prostration to Adam, like the prostration of Jacob and his family to Joseph in not worship.

PastorAIO is tormenting himself, defending his christian faith that chooses Jesus and others as their God. He is trying to compare it to Islam that truly prostrates to The One Who says "I am your Lord and there is no other" and commands prostration as part of worship. Please AIO go and play with C[b]a[/b]s[b]io[/b] or listen to R[b]a[/b]d[b]io[/b]