@Olowo tee: Church is not for me. Am from Muhammad! I go to Masjid/Mosque. Muhammad built and participated in building some. Jesus did not, nor instructed, with the slightest of hint that church should be built. It tells us that Church is an innovation and separate from Jesus instruction.

olabowale:

Did any of the preachers this past week, tell you why the son of Abraham was willing to lay his life on the line for his father to slaughter him? While the christian lord and savior and son of god was not, willingly without the dragging of his feet? We all know that he was dragged to his death, according to the Bible.

You mohammedans are a bunch of roundabout charlatans. First you say that Jesus Christ was not crucified next you are here pretending to be confused over His being "dragged" to his death.

There is a lot to be confused about in the quran, dont add biblical "confusion" to your mountain of problems.

davidylan:

You mohammedans are a bunch of roundabout charlatans. First you say that Jesus Christ was not crucified next you are here pretending to be confused over His being "dragged" to his death.

There is a lot to be confused about in the quran, don't add biblical "confusion" to your mountain of problems.

tell them for me

When Jesus saw that the man was sad, he said, "It will be very hard for rich people to enter the kingdom of God! It would be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God!"

-- Luke 18:24-25

KEY THOUGHT:
While material riches can be a great blessing and can be used to bless many in need and to do great things for the Kingdom, they can also be a trap to many of us. The Gospel of Luke lets us hear Jesus teach repeatedly about the danger of riches. Jesus' point here is that riches can be an incredible danger to the heart of believers. This young man is the living example of this danger. As the apostle Paul warned, greed and a desire for riches can become idolatry and destroy us. Let's make sure that every area of our lives, including our use of wealth, is yielded to the Lordship of Jesus.


TODAY'S PRAYER:
Father, thank you for your many rich blessings. Help me use these blessings to your glory. I do not want anything to interfere with my total devotion to you. In Jesus' name. Amen.

@ Davidylan: Kole ye ee. When I said 'dragged', it was sarcastical. Saying in essence, that an individual who is groomed for a role will never be reluctant or forced to paly the part. In debunkung the lamb willingly allowed to be slaughter, should be 100% opposite to being dragged to it and even at first begged that the cup be allowed to be passed over the head. In other words, it did not happen!

David, if the word, which is the son was there at the biginning, how come he didnt have anything to do with creation process? Please do not argue this away that creation was made through or because of him. My question is did he creat the creations? Further, wouldnt it have been better, since he later was dragged to die for 'all', that he did not allow sins to be created or manifested in the first place?

Why would he have allowed Serpent to deceive Eve and then later deceive Adam? Why did he not stop it before it began and allowing it be so messy whereby he had to be slaughtered for it?

In view of all of these above and many more which I will not mention here, but advice you and others to think about, rationalising throught it, if the son was there all along, with the holy spirit being there alos, why is 'O Israel your God and my God is but One GOD'?

Futher, when the son/word was dead, then the father would be presumed childless at that time, wouldnt it? Infact, since thy are one, then that means there was none when the son died? Or they, the three suffered/died all in that dragged/reluctantly death? AS a Yoruba man, you must have heard the song Aisi nle ologini o, Ile di ile ekute! Think about it. During the time that you did not have a god, what would have been the condition of the godless creations, eg, heavens and earth? Think about their remainig in the orbits/paths prescribed to them? They would have went out of order, because there was no Controller.

The time your god died, and as stated above, the father would have been childless; It points to what the Muslims have been saying all along; God is without a child, there is no need of it. Glory is He, who is independent of all things, yet all depend on Him. Jesus was reported to say in the Bible that he could not do anything by his own might!

God is always alive and can not be overcame by His creation. There is no reason that He in His full might, always, to be humilated by a ragtag band of Jews/gentiles (Thats the label of non jews, according to the Jewish tradition).

Finally, why are you fighting a battle that you are bound to lose, for sure, realising it from the moment of dying.

Allah says in the Glorious Qur'an, at the point of death, the Jews and Christians will know the position of Jesus son of Mary. Please note that there is no place in the Qur'an that Jesus is ever referred to as son of God, but always as son of his mother, Mary and as prophet, massiah (to the children of Israel).

The Jews when dying will realise that he, Jesus son of Mary the Massiah/prophet who was to come for them, but they denied his true position.

The christian will realise that he was only a prophet that was to be followed by his people, at that time, before the last prophet came for all mankind. Even though they exagerated his true position, some call him son or God, but in all refused to follow the prophet that came after him!

David, ronu o.

@davidylan


I never meant to come to christian thread but decided to when I saw big brother's Id. Let me quickly address your confusion.

Quote from: olabowale on October 25, 2007, 09:42 PM
Did any of the preachers this past week, tell you why the son of Abraham was willing to lay his life on the line for his father to slaughter him? While the christian lord and savior and son of god was not, willingly without the dragging of his feet? We all know that he was dragged to his death, according to the Bible.

You mohammedans are a bunch of roundabout charlatans. First you say that Jesus Christ was not crucified next you are here pretending to be confused over His being "dragged" to his death.

Now please davidylan, what do you understand by "crucifixion". To a layman, crucifixion is when they nailed/tied someone to a cross/stake and the person died on same. If they decide to kill a person by crucifying him and the person did not die on the cross, will you still say that "he was crucified" based on the meaning of that word? Ponder on that please. Also was he "crucified" in Jerusalem and kindly provide the age he was "crucified"


Thanks

@Davidylan and his supporters: There is nothing in Islam called muhammadans. We are muslims. Thats what God called us in His Glorious Book. Not hyphinated, just muslims, male and females, for starter. It is by your piety that you are called Mumin, high grade of submission.

Muhammadan, is a title the non muslims, really of Islam hatched out in their plot to confuse the unsuspecting muslims, who may accept that label. But God is great. All the deceit will come to light, InshaAllah.

hello olabo!

I knew you're a muslim, I was actually surprise to see your post on this thread, I thought you'd joined us. Well, It's my desire for you too .

@Olowo Tee: ??, Join you. I dont get it! Your religion? InshaAllah, never. The truth is known there is no room for other. Now, my intention is to see that you are at least will have no excuse against people of Islamic faith, in front of your Creator. So we are just trying to discuss the truth with you.

Have you noticed that whenever God, Lord, Creator is used, it is always in singular form. Further have you ever thought of the Creator and your mind/soul understand it to be any other than THE ALL POWERFUL?

So what are you still waiting for on the other side? Come on up and join a winning team, InshaAllah.

@olabowale,

olabowale:

Did any of the preachers this past week, tell you why the son of Abraham was willing to lay his life on the line for his father to slaughter him? While the christian lord and savior and son of god was not, willingly without the dragging of his feet? We all know that he was dragged to his death, according to the Bible.

I see. Your aim in entering this thread to cause disaffection and seek to exhibit your belligerence rather than discuss, yes? No wahala - nothing surprising, because that's what we already know about Muslims.

First, let me ask: who was "the son of Abraham" you were referring to? And did your mullad this past week tell you why the son of Abraham was willing to do what you described?

olabowale:

I wonder if a young boy, whose father spoke to about slaughtering him, in his dream, and when his father wanted to carry it out in real life, the boy went willingly, honoring his father, so that the dream can be fulfilled? Compare that to a grown man of 33 years, whose sole purpose was to die for the expediation of sins, yet he could not stand up to that responsibility! It is known among the christians that he already knew that was his job and destiny before he came. Why then the reluctancy? In layman term, why couldnt he lived up to the billing?

You're simply being daft here, olabowale. One may forgive your "layman" scholarship, but it is really illiteracy.

That Jesus prayed just before He went to the Cross does not equate to "reluctancy". Islam denies that He eventually went to the Cross and was crucified - and we also know that anything that describe a "cross" was such a horror to Muhammad. Yet, for all that, even when Muslims dribble rund the records in the Gospels concerning the Crucifixion, they suggest that "someone else" was put in Jesus' place on the Cross!! Ask the same Muslims WHO was put on that Cross - and they don't know!!

olabowale:

Remember he prayed to his father to take the cup off his head? I wonder if there is any truth in all of this confusion!

There is truth - but it is not confusion. You should first be asking yourself if there were any "truths" in the edited narratives that Muhammad gave in the Qur'an - and after all is said and done, Muhammad had no clue who the Holy Spirit was!!

It is okay for Muslims who do not even have a clue about the colossal fallacies in their scholarship to cross over and try to read "confusion" in Christianity. However, I'd have to remind you guys again: open your Qur'an to Sura 5:82 - your Qur'an makes it clear that Christians are people who are devoted to learning and are not arrogant! When you belch up your low IQ in a public Forum, think how many times you unwittingly confirm that most Muslims usually do not come to an intellectual exercise with their thinking caps on!

olabowale:

@ifyalways: Try me. I bet there is no rational explanation. None, Zero. The pope and the Archbishop can not explain it. It begs reason.

Hehehe. . . I'm really sorry for those who would want to queue up to slave themselves on your zero achievements.

@olabowale,

olabowale:

How can God help when you associate partners with Him! The first thing to do is to shun idols; of all kinds. Have a direct relationship to God alone. When you ask, ask Him. Put all your hopes and needs to HIm, alone.

You really should be preaching your worries and complaints to your Muslim ummah - they are the ones who need help, and need it fast! Your idolatry is nauseating, and up until now the BLACK STONE at the Kaa'ba is a monumental exhibition of idolatry that NO Muslim has been able to rationally justify!! I asked you in another thread WHERE Muhammad was instructed by Allah to venerate a stone - and rather than simply provide a rational answer, you went into your usual yodel and littered the thread with more crapolla to last your generation!

Olabowale, WHERE did Allah instruct Muhammad to venerate the BLACK STONE of Kaa'ba?

olabowale:

Dont sell yourself short by going through anything. The same way the Aborishas, Onisangos and others of yoruba tribe do. They, too, believe in God, excepct that they associate partnership with God.

We hear - and for all that, what did Muhammad do to non-Muslims? Did he not swear to fight people until they bend their necks to the shahada?

olabowale:

But Islam shun all form of associations; visual or conceptualised in the heart/mind. That is the religion that one should follow. A path that will definately lead to success, immediately or after the soul is been punished, for whatever it is going to be punished for.

If your definition of "success" is the illiterate posts you have been littering the Forum with, I'm glad I left your religion ages ago - and left forever! You talk of "visual" or "conceptualized" associations with Allah - did you ever think for a moment how it is in Islam that Muslims speak from both sides of their mouth? On the one hand, there should be no association with Allah; on the other hand, Allah and Muhammad knows best! Who's fooling who?

Did anyone ever bother to whsiper behind Muhammad's ears that he was promoting the very same shirk that he prohibited others from engaging in? Did anyone ever tap his shoulder that he had over-stepped his bounds in taking more than the 4 wives he limited to others? It was okay for Muhammad to encourage illicit and indiscrimnate sexcapades among his companions (remember the "coitus interruptus" that was going on while Muhammad was receiving "revelation" from Allah?). What nonsensical whims are you tutoring yourself unto in this thread, olabowale?

@olabowale,

olabowale:

@olowo tee: Am a muslim. What will I be doing in church? Oh, the institution founded by others but not a single one by Jesus (AS).

You make for a very poor Muslim at that! One who would only pout out his shallow yodels. Here is what Jesus Christ said about the Church:

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,
and upon this rock I will build my church;
and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
- - Matthew 16:18

Jesus spoke about building His Church - and left an unshakable promise that the gates of hades shall not prevail against the Church!

You may not believe in that verse; and that's alright. But to leave you IQ aside when you sit in front of a PC and type such verbosity to discredit what you don't understand, should make us wonder at how low you really could go. It's enough for Muslims to claim the Gospels were LOST and still sweat to "prove" that Muhammad is in the Gospel of John!! Such duplicity! And then you fathom the nerve to crawl in here and remove even the tot or wits we'd hoped you possessed.

olabowale:

@Olowo tee: Church is not for me. Am from Muhammad! I go to Masjid/Mosque. Muhammad built and participated in building some. Jesus did not, nor instructed, with the slightest of hint that church should be built. It tells us that Church is an innovation and separate from Jesus instruction.

Wake up from your fraud of a dream! I just quoted Matthew 16:18 where Jesus spoke of building His Church. For your info, the Church is not the same thing as the Masjid/Mosque! Because you coudn't help displaying your humonguous ignorance on the subject, you supposed that the Church as spoken of in the Bible must certainly be referring to some sort of sand and cement! I sorry for you! That is why your people are still buring down brick buildings while "the Church" (Christians collectively) is growing strong in their faith!

pilgrim.1:

It is okay for Muslims who do not even have a clue about the colossal fallacies in their scholarship to cross over and try to read "confusion" in Christianity. However, I'd have to remind you guys again: open your Qur'an to Sura 5:82 - your Qur'an makes it clear that Christians are people who are devoted to learning and are not arrogant! When you belch up your low IQ in a public Forum, think how many times you unwittingly confirm that most Muslims usually do not come to an intellectual exercise with their thinking caps on!

Quranic scholarship actively discourages rational reasoning. The slightest attempt to place the quran under the scrutiny of reveals it for the disjointed plagiarism it really is.

@olabowale,

olabowale:

@ Davidylan: Kole ye ee. When I said 'dragged', it was sarcastical. Saying in essence, that an individual who is groomed for a role will never be reluctant or forced to paly the part. In debunkung the lamb willingly allowed to be slaughter, should be 100% opposite to being dragged to it and even at first begged that the cup be allowed to be passed over the head. In other words, it did not happen!

I knew you were sporting for a small shake-up, mr "sarcastical"  It is the quintessential element in Muslim blood to be quite belligerent - and it wasn't long before you showed exactly what you really were aiming at. You do well!

FYI, what you deny is only a denial and does not change biblical truth. Jesus Christ died and rose again, defeating death and bringing unshakable and imperishable hope to those who believe in Him! Too bad, there's nothing you can do about the fact - and you should carefully go back to your Qur'an and ponder on WHY Jesus is acknowledged as MESSIAH (Christ) by Muhammad and Allah. Is it not funny that with all the talk about Muhammad being the last prophet, he still scampered on the thought of the anti-Christ, and stylishly left that fight for Jesus to handle and defeat the sinister Anti-Christ?

Where is babs787? Perhaps he might help you with his usual twister to interpret the title "Messiah" as applicable to "ALL PROPHETS". I dey wait!!

olabowale:

David, if the word, which is the son was there at the biginning, how come he didnt have anything to do with creation process? Please do not argue this away that creation was made through or because of him. My question is did he creat the creations? Further, wouldnt it have been better, since he later was dragged to die for 'all', that he did not allow sins to be created or manifested in the first place?

I have just one question for you, olabowale:

If God who created everything had prevented sin at the beginning - would SINNERS like Muhammad have survived the righteousness of God?

Just as you said: "please do not argue this away". I'm not being sarcastic, for I have not accused Muhammad unjustly. He pronounced with his own lips that he sinned, and had to turn to Allah more than 70 times in a day! If a man who tried to show others the way to God could be so conscious of sin that much that required repentance 70 times in a day, have you given a moment's thought about your own sins? You entered this thread with a sin - being "sarcastical". Does Allah allow such duplicity among his slaves such that we could hope for nothing better from fellows like you?

Remember: please don't argue this away - your sincere and "sarcastical" answer may help you round your own query.

olabowale:

Why would he have allowed Serpent to deceive Eve and then later deceive Adam? Why did he not stop it before it began and allowing it be so messy whereby he had to be slaughtered for it?

In view of all of these above and many more which I will not mention here, but advice you and others to think about, rationalising throught it, if the son was there all along, with the holy spirit being there alos, why is 'O Israel your God and my God is but One GOD'?

First, uncle olabowale, you have misquoted the verse from deuteronomy - go and seek it out and we may have something for you.

Second, You should be asking about the same thing in Islam: did Muhammad's Allah do anything to stop the sinning of Muslims while they messed around with "coitus interruptus" and went about slaughtering people? Have things changed today, with the placards that Muslims still hold today as shown below? --



And what kind of morality do we find in the picture below? -



It is convenient for Muslims like you to happily enter a thread with all your "sarcastically" crafted presumptions. Did you take a few moments first to consider that your own Allah did nothing to stop the sins of the Islamic world despite the so-called Masjid?Mosque career you've been advertizing on the Forum.

@davidylan,

davidylan:

Quranic scholarship actively discourages rational reasoning. The slightest attempt to place the quran under the scrutiny of reveals it for the disjointed plagiarism it really is.

Well, talk of plagiarism masters!! Ever since we burst that gimmick that has been their life-saver, na orishi-rishi we dey see manifesting everyday from their quarters.

@olabowale,

olabowale:

Futher, when the son/word was dead, then the father would be presumed childless at that time, wouldnt it? Infact, since thy are one, then that means there was none when the son died? Or they, the three suffered/died all in that dragged/reluctantly death? AS a Yoruba man, you must have heard the song Aisi nle ologini o, Ile di ile ekute! Think about it. During the time that you did not have a god, what would have been the condition of the godless creations, eg, heavens and earth? Think about their remainig in the orbits/paths prescribed to them? They would have went out of order, because there was no Controller.

I hear. . . and all that was to further confirm your "sarcasm' again, not so?

The problem with you is that you don't understand the nature of "death" at all. You had supposed (typical of Islam) that death puts an end to EXISTENNCE!! Sorry, Jesus did not cease to exist when He died in the flesh. Death did not affect His Spirit; and even while His body was in the grave, the Bible records clearly that He went to the underworld of the spiritual realms and proclaimed His victory over them (see 1 Peter 3:19).

olabowale:

The time your god died, and as stated above, the father would have been childless; It points to what the Muslims have been saying all along; God is without a child, there is no need of it. Glory is He, who is independent of all things, yet all depend on Him. Jesus was reported to say in the Bible that he could not do anything by his own might!

Sorry, you misquoted the verse yet again - and that is why you have no clue what you're talking about.

Meanwhile, we've heard the belligerent mantra from Muslims who often deride Christians with "your god died". But then, how is it that even after all that derogatory language, Muhammad stands limp in the face of the Anti-Christ? is it not ironic that inspite of all the bloviates in the Qur'an and the hadiths, Muhammad was unable to secure his own salvation in the real hour of testing?

One could reason in the same illiterate way as you take the pleasure here to do against the Allah of the Qur'an. I hope you're not asking for that? But just incase you want a foretaste to send you off the Forum again for some period to recover from the previous sabbatical, then you try and push your luck just a bit more.

olabowale:

God is always alive and can not be overcame by His creation. There is no reason that He in His full might, always, to be humilated by a ragtag band of Jews/gentiles (Thats the label of non jews, according to the Jewish tradition).

Finally, why are you fighting a battle that you are bound to lose, for sure, realising it from the moment of dying.

You talk of not God that cannot be "overcome" or "humiliated" - thank Him for that testimony. However, did you realize that in Islam, 'Allah' as preached by Muhammad was quite humiliated? Yes, he was - for it was Muhammad that was crying like a whimpering child when he sought an assination against the Jewish poet who satirized Muhammad!

Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf
who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?"
[Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 5, Bk. 59, #369]

Did you care to ask Muhammad how it was that Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf, a mere mortal, "has HURT Allah"?!? Was that not a humiliation that many Muslims pretend they have never read - and they have tried to deny it when the Hadith was brought to public attention?

Olabowale, your silliness is next to none!

@olabowale,

olabowale:

Allah says in the Glorious Qur'an, at the point of death, the Jews and Christians will know the position of Jesus son of Mary. Please note that there is no place in the Qur'an that Jesus is ever referred to as son of God, but always as son of his mother, Mary and as prophet, massiah (to the children of Israel).

The reason why the Qur'an does not refer to Jesus as the Son of God is because Muhammad denied that confession. You may try all you're worth (amounts to nothing anyway) to discredit the Biblical narratives; but at the same time you could be happy, I trust, that someone would have as much rights to pronounce the Qur'an "a glorious story book" cleverly woven together by Muhammad's classic career ar re-engineering and twisting historical accounts of the Bible!

You don't just bulldoze your way into a Christian thread and "sarcastically" attempt your rascality. Good for you if all you know to do is display your actus reus and arrive at nothing. But then, I'd be hopeful for some news if you could find out the reason WHY even Muhammad in the Qur'an could not deny that Jesus is the Messiah!!

olabowale:

The Jews when dying will realise that he, Jesus son of Mary the Massiah/prophet who was to come for them, but they denied his true position.

You're even a funnier joke that Comedy Central!

Ola, wake up and smell the coffee! Jesus Christ will come back to judge Muslims. QED!!

Have you carefully checked on the issues concerning the second coming of Jesus Christ in islamic theology?

olabowale:

The christian will realise that he was only a prophet that was to be followed by his people, at that time, before the last prophet came for all mankind. Even though they exagerated his true position, some call him son or God, but in all refused to follow the prophet that came after him!

Muhammad could not serve anyone any good, let's just stop the silly joke. In order to give Muhammad some sort of credibility that he was lacking, you guys have tried to dribble him into the Gospels and the Torah that your brethren claimed were LOST! Muslims will do anything to parade a falsehood that they cannot defend when they facts are put on the tabel. When you're done and arrived at nowhere, then you try to cover up the fraud and launch into baseless wranglings - and "sarcastically" so (I almost forgot )!!

If you want to discuss issues with people, do so. If you've got nothing to do, go for a walk and cry your heart out instead of coming here pandering your defenceless falsehood and waving it in our face like it's the next best thing after a slice of bread!

Ciao!

@babs787,

babs787:

Now please davidylan, what do you understand by "crucifixion". To a layman, crucifixion is when they nailed/tied someone to a cross/stake and the person died on same. If they decide to kill a person by crucifying him and the person did not die on the cross, will you still say that "he was crucified" based on the meaning of that word? Ponder on that please. Also was he "crucified" in Jerusalem and kindly provide the age he was "crucified"

Please, mr babs787. . . HOW MANY times do you have to go over this same issue that has been thrashed and done with?

I'm still waiting for your answer to the simple question that was offered you in one of the threads in that regards:

WHO was put as a substitute on the Cross instead of Jesus - as Muslims claim?

Just ponder on that carefully - if you're here scooting off from thread to thread on the same issue.

Cheers.

@olabowale,

olabowale:

Muhammadan, is a title the non muslims, really of Islam hatched out in their plot to confuse the unsuspecting muslims, who may accept that label. But God is great. All the deceit will come to light, InshaAllah.

Indeed - all the deceit in Islam are being exposed to the light; and we're no longer fooled by your consistent denials of the obvious.

olabowale:

Join you. I don't get it! Your religion? InshaAllah, never. The truth is known there is no room for other. Now, my intention is to see that you are at least will have no excuse against people of Islamic faith, in front of your Creator. So we are just trying to discuss the truth with you.

Indeed - the best way to see that we don't have any "excuse" before Allah in that day is for your to enter a thread "sarcastically", abi? You do well. You're "trying to discuss the truth" - and by denying the Bible, you hope to make progress. We dey wait.

olabowale:

Have you noticed that whenever God, Lord, Creator is used, it is always in singular form. Further have you ever thought of the Creator and your mind/soul understand it to be any other than THE ALL POWERFUL?

So what are you still waiting for on the other side? Come on up and join a winning team, InshaAllah.

Losers!

Olabowale, who is the Holy Spirit?

Ponder carefully on that - or you may be surprised that Islam might promote your ignorance and help you seal your doom!

Let me repeat that: be CAREFUL as you ponder that question: the wrong answer might leave you really sorry!! I hope not.

Cheers.

O Bless!

what else do i have to say, Olabo, for my darling, dearest, loveliest friend @Pilgrim has said it all. Pls just take your time to read through her post over and over again. God bless you.

And you might need to know this: I've got Christ Jesus, He is the reason for my living. He's my all in all and my sufficiency is of Him. He gave His life for me to redeem me from the curse of the law. I need no other prophet, I need no other religion. I need no other way of life than to remain in Him. For in Him I live and I have my being. Do you know that life with Jesus is all interesting peaceful and beautiful? No threat, no fear, no terrorism and no cause for alarm . He gives you joy, love, peace, longsuffering, grace, strenght and all good gifts are from Him. James 1:17.
I wish you could have a taste of Him and enjoy this life with us. it's such a beautiful life. NB. A life without Him would be miserable and meaningless.


@Poster.
In the service of yersterday, the study was on "the blessings and benefit of submitting to God's will". Text was taken from the book of John 5:30, Luke 22:40--42; John 6:38, Isaiah 53:11-12. I learnt that there are strongholds and barriers I must avoid and that I mustn't allow my will to conflict with God's will, He is God and His will must always be done perfectly! I also learnt that there are immense benefits when I submit to doing God's will.

N.B
It pays to do God's will with a perfect heart. We've got lessons to learnt from Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, Balaam, Herod, Absalom etc who at one point or the other in their lives allowed self-will to over rule them, the end result was sudden death and eternal damnation. Let the will of God rule in your life!

Hmmm. . . the only OlowoTee,

How body? I trust your weekend was fabulous. Mine was challenging and beautiful in all respects.

OlowoTee:

what else do i have to say, Olabo, for my darling, dearest, loveliest friend @Pilgrim has said it all. Please just take your time to read through her post over and over again. God bless you.

Lol. . . na me you bless like that finish this morning? Haarrrgh. . . I'm at a loss for words as to how precious you've been to me. Bless you many times!

OlowoTee:

And you might need to know this: I've got Christ Jesus, He is the reason for my living. He's my all in all and my sufficiency is of Him. He gave His life for me to redeem me from the curse of the law. I need no other prophet, I need no other religion. I need no other way of life than to remain in Him. For in Him I live and I have my being. Do you know that life with Jesus is all interesting peaceful and beautiful? No threat, no fear, no terrorism and no cause for alarm . He gives you joy, love, peace, longsuffering, grace, strenght and all good gifts are from Him. James 1:17.
I wish you could have a taste of Him and enjoy this life with us. it's such a beautiful life. NB. A life without Him would be miserable and meaningless.

Words on marble. QED.

We have Self Control
All quotes from New living translation unless otherwise stated

But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: . . . self-control. There is no law against these things!

Galatians 5:22,23

Its left for us to exercise it.
Take example from Jesus

He did not retaliate when he was insulted,
nor threaten revenge when he suffered.
He left his case in the hands of God,
who always judges fairly.

I Peter 2:23

But to you who are willing to listen, I say, love your enemies! Do good to those who hate you. Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who hurt you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, offer the other cheek also. If someone demands your coat, offer your shirt also. Give to anyone who asks; and when things are taken away from you, don’t try to get them back. Do to others as you would like them to do to you.

Luke 6:27-31

@somze,

More grace to you.

We were reminded that if we continue doing things the same way we will
remain the same ie. we will not grow to new levels in our walk with the Lord.
We were told it s time to arise and be everything that God created us to be.

You're welcome Pilgrim and thank you @somze for the added attribute we've got in Christ!

@ Olabo
Can't you see. . . .or don't you want any/all of these benefits and blessings we're enjoying?? We've got self-Control! We've got grace to forgive all our offenders without retaliations! We've got peace of mind, We love you and all others as Christ also loved us and gave Himself for us. Just take you time to think about it and let His peace reign and rule in your heart by faith. "He" loves you !

Thanks Pilgrim . . . Its been a while now

Thanks Olowo Tee for expantiating.

Have a great day!!!

@topic,

It was beautiful and refreshing yesterday with the teaching on why the Name of Jesus is sufficient in all needs that we would ever experience.

In the common human experience, some think of being blessed only in terms of 'God with us'. For others, it is all a matter of 'God for us'.

However, one reason why we can rejoice in Christ is because He brought the complete blessing anyone could ever dream of - for through Him, we could speak of 'God IN us' by the Holy Spirit as well.

    ~ God with us:  He is ever present in time of need

    ~ God for us:  who can be against us when God favours His children?

    ~ God in us:  for which reason we have no uncertainties at any time.

His name is indeed above every other name.

somze:

Thanks Pilgrim . . . Its been a while now

True - I've been on and off, but still enjoy the many contributions from all (including our Muslim friends). I trust all's going well for you.


@All,
God continue to bless you in every way for His name sake. Amen!

@Olowo Tee: On one hand you spoke very eloquently about Jesus being your all. Then, immediately you came to the dominance of the will of God on all creations. It was not the will of Jesus you meant, because Jesus himself spoke that the will of God will be done, even by himself Jesus. This statement, from the Lord's prayer, spoken and prayed by Jesus and coupled with his prayer of begging God to let the cup be removed from his head with other portions of the Bible tell us God is Superior than and separate from Jesus. Therefore, they can never be coequal.

So if Jesus is your all in all, and he has died for you and have ransomed you from the'curse' of the law (Mosaic law/commandments), then there is no reason for you to be constrained by the 'WILL" of God! If you can even realise that the will of God must be done, always, then the death of Jesus that you blindly hang on to, is truly meaningless, if it ever happened or it is just a charade, because it did not happen. In conclusion, one will see that the death did not change anything that was established before he came to being, during his being and after he was raised up. The WILL of GOD is still and remains dominant.

Please when I talk about the Bible Jesus, I do not mean the Qur'an Isa bin Mariam (AS), all muslims revere, a true messenger of his Lord, Allah Subuhana watahallah. So i do not want you or anyone to think that we are talking about the same personality.

As to my lady Pligrim.1 issue, I have read her statements. i will continue to read them, whereever I see them. I ask this of her though; since she is from Islamic family, am going to assume that some of her folks are still Muslims. Therefore, she clearly has demostrated that Muslims and christians will not end up in the same paradise! The muslims know that Paradise and Heell are two distinct places and they are both real. The people who will enter hell, for example are described to burn and feel the pain of burning. They will be cloth with new skin, after the complete burning of the old skin, so that the process is repeated.

My question to her is this, whats she doing concerning her parents? Or she is just only concern about herself? For me, I prayed that my mother would leave christianity. Alhamdulillah, about 3 years ago, she left it, for whatever causation she has, she left it! If she is so convinced that she is now on the right path, she should be inviting with irrefutable arguments/words, her parents to christianity. She must set up the premise as to allow them to ask her questions. Her statement should come from Jesus, the master, himself. (Come to think of it, not very many statement are from Jesus, so the argument will be lopsided, in favor of the Muslims; having the whole Qur'an and most of what came of Jesus, in the Bible to point out that God is the Lord of Jesus, and they are not coequal. That the word of God as it produced Jesus, is clearly that commanded the being of Jesus as God commanded everything to be, Qun!)

Pligrim.1 and others who have tasted the sweet nectar of Islam, by virtue of their birth and unfortunately left it, are like their description in the Qur'an: their hearts are deseased and they go about, with hardened hearts, deaf and blind. I pray that you as well as her and others will receive guidance from your Creator!

I want you to try to not read from Paul/saul for a moment. Concentrate your reading from what Jesus said, if you can find any. You will see that God is is Lord of Jesus, the messiah of the children of Israel, both the saved and the lost sheep among them, during his ministry which lasted only for 3 years. You will find that, at best you will restrict yourself to the gospels of according to fame, without even a last/surname! By the way, how many Olabowales in Yorubaland? Cabn you truly identify me from this bunch without a family name, which makes it possible to identify the particular Olabowale you want?

Sisi mi, we all adults here. We cannot be blind likje this. Allowing somebody to sell us a bill of goods! Qur'an says that it is for those who reflect, think, ponder, have mind to think, observe, etc. It is for research, investigstion, etc. There is no blind faith in Islam. Unfortunately, few practice Islam today, though carrying the identity of Islam. We have all injected our cultures, before Islam came to us, into it. Even though we see that the cuklture is completely against Qur'an and Sunnah/hadith! Islam has its own culture. It is not Arabic or any other culture. It is a good culture. A complete culture in goodliness.

Olowo Tee, you have self control, yet the christian nations have gathered their weaponry against the Muslims, engaged in mass killing, rapes and all forms of abuse! Thats self control? Wow! Wonder among human will never cease! You have self control when the Missionaries are pumping their garbage into the head minds of young muslims, in defeated lands of the Muslims, eg Afghanistan, Iraq, to name a few? If you do not believe me, google Christian missionaries atrocities. If you have self control you will not invade the lands of Muslims. You will turn the other cheek! Self control, my sister, come again!

Sisi mi. I can not believe you talk about self control with straight face like that. Adultery and hedonic behaviour of all kinds are very high in Christianity, than in Islam. Where is yourself control?

@olabowale,

How are you today? I hope all is well?

I actually was looking forward to another long treat from you, and you didn't disappoint. I'd rather sift through and deal with the eseentials. Fair deal?

olabowale:

@Olowo Tee: On one hand you spoke very eloquently about Jesus being your all. Then, immediately you came to the dominance of the will of God on all creations. It was not the will of Jesus you meant, because Jesus himself spoke that the will of God will be done, even by himself Jesus. This statement, from the Lord's prayer, spoken and prayed by Jesus and coupled with his prayer of begging God to let the cup be removed from his head with other portions of the Bible tell us God is Superior than and separate from Jesus. Therefore, they can never be coequal.

Just 3 verses about Jesus' co-equality in the Godhead:

John 10:30
"I and my Father are one."

John 5:23
"That all men should honour the Son,
even as they honour the Father.
He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father
which hath sent him.

John 17:5
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self
with the glory which I had with thee BEFORE the world was.

It is easy to try and deny everything you read in the Bible - not because you even care to make sense out of what is written there; but because you assume that anything you read in the Qur'an must be the yardstick for judging Christianity.

I think it would help you greatly if you settle down and be objective when you seek to discredit Christianity on your assumptions. Anyone can use the same set of illogical arguments as yours and take Islam apart. My style in discussing or debating issues with people is to give them the benefit of doubt and lead them back to the denials even their own mullah have continually expressed to mislead Muslims! Have you been able to deal with that?

olabowale:

So if Jesus is your all in all, and he has died for you and have ransomed you from the'curse' of the law (Mosaic law/commandments), then there is no reason for you to be constrained by the 'WILL" of God!

The "WILL" of God is not the same thing as the "CURSE" of the Law.

When Moses set the Law before 'bani Israel', he loud proclaimed: "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live" [Deut. 30:19]

God is not willing that anyone perishes; but even when punitive measures are set before the people, the choice God would have them make was LIFE and not death!

Jesus Christ came not to give 'death'; but rather to give LIFE - and LIFE abundantly (John 10:10). Choosing L.I.F.E. was God's WILL for all of mankind - and only in the One who died and rose from the dead could possibly grant life to others.

@olabowale,

olabowale:

If you can even realise that the will of God must be done, always, then the death of Jesus that you blindly hang on to, is truly meaningless, if it ever happened or it is just a charade, because it did not happen. In conclusion, one will see that the death did not change anything that was established before he came to being, during his being and after he was raised up. The WILL of GOD is still and remains dominant.

In the first place, we haven't seen you establish what you know about the WILL of God. As a former Muslim, I understood that DEATH and KILLING was paramount for Muslims - and the situation has not changed today. On the contrary, we have seen that even in the Old Testament, God's will was that people should choose to LIVE rather than DIE!

Indeed, the WILL of God remains dominant - and that is that people should LIVE!! This is why Christians are not hanging on to the death of Christ, but rather it is to the RESURRECTION that we rejoice in!! Every prophet dies - but if religion is merely a matter of people continually DYING without a hope of the resurrection, we certainly would all be miserable fellows both to ourselves and our neighbours!

The resurrection of Jesus Christ made all the difference! Jesus did not say that we shall live because he died; rather, He said: "because I live, ye shall live also" (John 14:19).

Dear Olabowale, please choose LIFE - the hope of the resurrection was not in Moses, Adam, Noah, or Abraham . . that hope was and will ever remain in the One who defeated Death - Jesus Christ Himself!!

olabowale:

Please when I talk about the Bible Jesus, I do not mean the Qur'an Isa bin Mariam (AS), all muslims revere, a true messenger of his Lord, Allah Subuhana watahallah. So i do not want you or anyone to think that we are talking about the same personality.

I understand you. Your problem here would be multitudinous.

(a) Muhammad NEVER claimed to be speaking of a different Jesus than the "Biblical Jesus."

(b) The Allah of the Qur'an did not claim to be speaking of a different Jesus either.

(c) If Muhammad or Allah were speaking of a different Jesus, could you please gather the verses from the Qur'an and the hadith and show us where they make your own claim to be speaking of another Jesus other than the same one that you guys have been trying so hard to discredit?

(d) If you are speaking of another Jesus, HOW many MESSIAHS was Allah sending to the world - ONE or TWO? The Qur'anic "messiah" was none other than Jesus Himself, even though the Qur'an denies a lot of things it borrowed from the Bible.

You cannot keep up this disavowals - they don't make any sense to you nor to the Qur'an or Muhammad. Please provide a seasoned account of the Jesus that you seek to propose and let us walk you through the parts of the Qur'an and Hadith you never have read - and you're struggling to DENY.

@olabowale,

olabowale:

As to my lady Pligrim.1 issue, I have read her statements. i will continue to read them, whereever I see them. I ask this of her though; since she is from Islamic family, am going to assume that some of her folks are still Muslims.

Sorry to disappoint you, but your assumptions are wrong - my family members are all Christians now. Not all of them were Muslims formerly; but you would be surprised to know that we have stronger Christians than pilgrim.1 in our family _{(nevermind the shakara I'm making here!)}

olabowale:

Therefore, she clearly has demostrated that Muslims and christians will not end up in the same paradise! The muslims know that Paradise and Heell are two distinct places and they are both real. The people who will enter hell, for example are described to burn and feel the pain of burning. They will be cloth with new skin, after the complete burning of the old skin, so that the process is repeated.

If that was meant as a scare-effect, well. . . it didn't pull the punch, actually.

The thing I would really like for you Muslims to settle is the verse in the Qur'an that clearly teaches that Allah will send Muslims to HELL-FIRE (Sura 19:71) - and Muhammad did indeed confirm it in the Hadith.

Do you care to look closely at that? I'm sorry, but this is not about seeking to deflect the topic of the thread; but I will be willing to go to an appropriate thread to discuss warmly with you on the subject - if you may.

olabowale:

My question to her is this, whats she doing concerning her parents? Or she is just only concern about herself? For me, I prayed that my mother would leave christianity. Alhamdulillah, about 3 years ago, she left it, for whatever causation she has, she left it! If she is so convinced that she is now on the right path, she should be inviting with irrefutable arguments/words, her parents to christianity. She must set up the premise as to allow them to ask her questions. Her statement should come from Jesus, the master, himself.

To God's glory, let me share these with you:

(1) My parents are committed Christians.

(2) we all enjoy talking about Jesus Christ and His wonderful grace and mercy.

(3) We task ourselves with deeper questions than you may assume; but al the same - they came to know the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour before I did!

(4) Before I became a Christian, (this is one of the things I didn't want to talk about when nwando asked me about my testimony in another thread), I had the seething hatred to give the "tip-off" to the mullah where I attended the Masjid (mosque). Even though we were in Europe when they became Christians, I knew that as soon as I let the cat out, my parents would be slaughtered - and that might have been counted in my credit towards Janna (Paradise).

(5) But a tragedy brought me to my knees - and when I realized that Muhammad was unable to do anything about my plight, I feebly asked Jesus to help me. Instantly, the death-wish for my parents left me - I loved them for real, and TWO other huge incidents convinced me beyond all doubts that the Bibe was telling the truth about Jesus Christ!