Does god exist withing the universe that he created , or does he sit outside the universe?

God is not confined by time and/or space.

italo: God is not confined by time and/or space.

Good answer..... Plaetton give it a rest please..

It exist both within and without, cos IT doesnt even exist, IT IS. God is everything, and I mean that God is the totality of all that there is - ENERGY.

plaetton: Does god exist withing the universe that he created , or does he sit outside the universe?

Both. As space, God is within our universe because we know there will always be space between objects, at any scale, in the universe. He also likely exists as regions of space way farther than any infinite multiverse imagined.

Biklyonaire: What do you think of God as space ?

Uyi Iredia:

Both. As space, God is within our universe because we know there will always be space between objects, at any scale, in the universe. He also likely exists as regions of space way farther than any infinite multiverse imagined.

God damn...

italo: God is not confined by time and/or space.

Sounds like a good answer.
But it cannot be right, especially if we are to believe in the scriptures.

First, it only an idea, a concept, abstract notions that cannot be confined by space and time.

Is god an idea, a concept, a set of abstract ideals?

Secondly, in the bible, on countless ocassions, we read that god has a locality.

Humans are supposedly made in his image, which is suggestive of physicality.

He supposedly takes a stroll in the garden of eden.
He descends on the mountain and talks to moses.
He wrestles with Jacob,
In the book of Job, he meets with Satan for a friendly chit chat.
He has human emotions, again suggestive of physiological and biochemical manifestations.

Sacrifices of meat were periodically made to him, and we read that he consumed such by fire, suggesting an appetite and hunger for nutrients.
Etc, etc.

The universe is a system. A dynamic system.
God is either within that system and working within that dynamic system, or, he sits outside of the system as an observer.

Uyi Iredia:

Both. As space, God is within our universe because we know there will always be space between objects, at any scale, in the universe. He also likely exists as regions of space way farther than any infinite multiverse imagined.

You say this with so much religious certainty.
But how does it make any sense?

The Big Bang theory posits that the universe was originally an
extremely dense, extremely small singularity. Within this singularity is/
was the potential for time and space, and therefore, laws that govern
the universe.
This singularity does not sit within space or time itself, as the
potential was/is contained within.
The first cause exists outside of the singularity, and is therefore not
bound by the laws within the universe, including space and time.
Since the The Big Bang, the singularity has expanded, and the natural
laws have resulted in our universe, all still contained within the original
singularity.
Anything outside of the realms of natural law cannot exist within the
singularity/universe.
Nor the laws of our universe exist outside of the singularity.
I believe that the first cause created the singularity, and all the
potential within, but is unable to intervene within the universe in other
than natural means, if there is any intervention at all..

Does that make sense to you people? That's exactly what I think

For the purpose of clarity and transparency, I dislike convoluted arguments that touch on too many things and obscure the focus.

What exactly is the point you would like me to respond to?

Everything you said?

plaetton:

Sounds like a good answer.
But it cannot be right, especially if we are to believe in the scriptures.

First, it only an idea, a concept, abstract notions that cannot be confined by space and time.

Is god an idea, a concept, a set of abstract ideals?

Secondly, in the bible, on countless ocassions, we read that god has a locality.

Humans are supposedly made in his image, which is suggestive of physicality.

He supposedly takes a stroll in the garden of eden.
He descends on the mountain and talks to moses.
He wrestles with Jacob,
In the book of Job, he meets with Satan for a friendly chit chat.
He has human emotions, again suggestive of physiological and biochemical manifestations.

Sacrifices of meat were periodically made to him, and we read that he consumed such by fire, suggesting an appetite and hunger for nutrients.
Etc, etc.

The universe is a system. A dynamic system.
God is either within that system and working within that dynamic system, or, he sits outside of the system as an observer.

sushieater: The Big Bang theory posits that the universe was originally an
extremely dense, extremely small singularity. Within this singularity is/
was the potential for time and space, and therefore, laws that govern
the universe.
This singularity does not sit within space or time itself, as the
potential was/is contained within.
The first cause exists outside of the singularity, and is therefore not
bound by the laws within the universe, including space and time.
Since the The Big Bang, the singularity has expanded, and the natural
laws have resulted in our universe, all still contained within the original
singularity.
Anything outside of the realms of natural law cannot exist within the
singularity/universe.
Nor the laws of our universe exist outside of the singularity.
I believe that the first cause created the singularity, and all the
potential within, but is unable to intervene within the universe in other
than natural means, if there is any intervention at all..

Does that make sense to you people? That's exactly what I think

Oh, it does, my brother.
This is so beautiful.

But, of course, you forgot to include god in the overall equation.
You see, in this part of the universe, that can be a problem.
lol.

plaetton:

Oh, it does, my brother.
This is so beautiful.

But, of course, you forgot to include god in the overall equation.
You see, in this part of the universe, that can be a problem.
lol.

Ok, my answer is there, just Replace "THE FIRST CAUSE" with GOD cus I just don't like using the word God

italo: For the purpose of clarity and transparency, I dislike convoluted arguments that touch on too many things and obscure the focus.

What exactly is the point you would like me to respond to?

Everything you said?

You said that god is not confined within space and time.
I responded by saying that on the surface, that might seem like a fine rebuttal, only if we agree that god is an idea or a set of abstract ideals, for only such can transcend space and time.
The god of the bible is very far from being an abstract concept.

I mean, he is expected on earth any time soon with a well-armed army for the final battle against his arc-enemy Satan(who perhaps also is not confined to space and time?)

The point is that you do not understand what it means to be outside space and time.

sushieater:
Ok, my answer is there, just Replace "THE FIRST CAUSE" with GOD cus I just don't like using the word God

No bros,
You do not need to.
I was just trying to hint to you that homo-religilous would not comprehend what you wrote if the generic word "God" is not alpha and omega the equation.

Panentheism......

The question will be very difficult for theist.

As for me, God is everything....anything that exist is within space and time

FOLYKAZE: Panentheism......

The question will be very difficult for theist.

As for me, God is everything....anything that exist is within space and time

If God is everything, he's also nothing..

God does not live in or outside the universe. The world απϑ universe live inside God. Ȋt will surprise you that God IS ( απϑ not was) in the year 1612 απϑ also very present in the year 5005. Time is insdie of him.

aManFromMars:

If God is everything, he's also nothing..

Yes.....outside your brain networking, you nothing and living in illusion...

Adding, nothing and everything are opposite....you not making sense.

Add every particle in the universe and tell me it zero

italo: God is not confined by time and/or space.

Where is heaven located,within or without the universe?

Beretta92: Where is heaven located,within or without the universe?

Definitely outside the universe

plaetton: Does god exist withing the universe that he created , or does he sit outside the universe?

He cannot exist within the universe He created. If that happens He experiences change which is a non-attribute of God. A God which changes, never is, always becoming must have a cause. Once that happens our understanding of God begin to fail.

Billyonaire: It exist both within and without, cos IT doesnt even exist, IT IS. God is everything, and I mean that God is the totality of all that there is - ENERGY.

This argument fails before it is started. I wonder how it exists and doesn't even exist.

Uyi Iredia: Both. As space, God is within our universe because we know there will always be space between objects, at any scale, in the universe. He also likely exists as regions of space way farther than any infinite multiverse imagined.

I think this is wrong. The moment the location of God is assumed to be within our space, we can then begin to question the uncaused entity we are describing. If you remember, God has always been. Space is caused. If God has always been and space is a latter creation, then God cannot be in space except it has always existed.

FOLYKAZE: Panentheism......

The question will be very difficult for theist.

As for me, God is everything....anything that exist is within space and time

Frankly speaking, I consider Panentheism's explanation of God as the most illogical. Just my opinion.

FOLYKAZE:

Yes.....outside your brain networking, you nothing and living in illusion...

Adding, nothing and everything are opposite....you not making sense.

Add every particle in the universe and tell me it zero

Sorry, you're the one not making sense.. There's another word we use for 'everything' - it's called the universe.

If God is the universe, then God is nothing. I've never seen a tornado stop itself, or winds chasing course of their own volition. It's ambiguous to say God is everything. That means nothing.



Do you believe God to be a conscious being separate from the universe?

Reyginus: Frankly speaking, I consider Panentheism's explanation of God as the most illogical. Just my opinion.

What do you find illogical about Pantheism?

aManFromMars:

What do you find illogical about Pantheism?

No. Not pantheism but panentheism.

aManFromMars:

What do you find illogical about Pantheism?

The idea that God has two poles, consequent and premordial, with the world as his body is highly irrational.

GOD DOES NOT EXIST. Man created the GOD IDEA, God is NOWHERE. MAN'S CREATION

Femmymata2: GOD DOES NOT EXIST. Man created the GOD IDEA, God is NOWHERE. MAN'S CREATION

This is not the argument. For anything you are going to say here to make sense, you must assume He exists.

aManFromMars:

Sorry, you're the one not making sense.. There's another word we use for 'everything' - it's called the universe.

If God is the universe, then God is nothing. I've never seen a tornado stop itself, or winds chasing course of their own volition. It's ambiguous to say God is everything. That means nothing.



Do you believe God to be a conscious being separate from the universe?

I understand where you're coming from ,and I agree with you 100%`
It is actually illogical to say that god is everything, and then say that god is something.
It is hard for many to grasp that if god is the total sum of all, then god, as a separate entity that many assume him to be, cannot exist.
This is why I am a pantheist atheist.

For the same reason, I laugh when people say that there is a one and only god, then also turn around to say " God is a mighty God", God is a loving God, etc.

Similarly, telling someone that god loves them is also silly, if we agree that god must, as a matter of law, either love all his creation or hate all his creations.

sushieater: The Big Bang theory posits that the universe was originally an
extremely dense, extremely small singularity. Within this singularity is/
was the potential for time and space, and therefore, laws that govern
the universe.
This singularity does not sit within space or time itself, as the
potential was/is contained within.
The first cause exists outside of the singularity, and is therefore not
bound by the laws within the universe, including space and time.
Since the The Big Bang, the singularity has expanded, and the natural
laws have resulted in our universe, all still contained within the original
singularity.
Anything outside of the realms of natural law cannot exist within the
singularity/universe.
Nor the laws of our universe exist outside of the singularity.
I believe that the first cause created the singularity, and all the
potential within, but is unable to intervene within the universe in other
than natural means, if there is any intervention at all..

Does that make sense to you people? That's exactly what I think

Absolutely! This kind of thinking made Marcion to propound the idea that the god of the Old Testament is a subordinate or demiurge who created the material world with its imperfections. He exists as a spirit, loves fire prone to anger and punitive boastful and impudent. He is not omnipresent or omniscient, perfect or almighty. The true God is nameless, oerect limitless, omnipresent, silent and exists outside the universe but has knowledge of everything within and outside it.

Also, Reyginus, if god exists outside the universe, then , in our universe, god does not exist. In our universe, god can only exist as an abstract idea or a set of ideals.
This is the position of all atheists which you somehow disagree with.
So, as u can see, by your own logic, atheists have got it right.