Bidam:
Of cos as usual spiritual truths are always lost on you..Keep reading letters into scripture. I have already said Jesus has provided Himself as the LAMB for the sacrifice FREELY to us, so no need for a lamb( Lev 12:..moreso we do not need a priest(ofcos in your hurry to justify your "milk doctrine" you forgot to mention that) when we gather to dedicate the child. We are the Holy Priesthood that offer up the SPIRITUAL SACRIFICES ACCEPTABLE TO GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST( 1 Peter 2:5).So when we appear to present our GODLY SEED(Malachi 2:15) before Jesus the MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, HIS BLOOD SPEAKS A BETTER WORD FOR US,since we are gathered to God the judge of all men together with the first born whose names are written in heaven( Heb 12:22-24).

Believers are SPIRIT BEINGS. Stop interpreting your carnality in to sacred scriptures whether OT or NT.

You forgot to tell you Jesus also dedicated us to God already and that wasn't enough, you have to keep doing it again. How come he only became the sacrifice but didn't become the dedicated fulfilled? I know what that is, cherry picking! !!

paxonel:

you are good

No, only God is good..Thanks.

Goshen360:




You forgot to tell you Jesus also dedicated us to God already and that wasn't enough, you have to keep doing it again. How come he only became the sacrifice but didn't become the dedicated fulfilled? I know what that is, cherry picking! !!

You see your life? You rushed to comment simply because i punched holes in your poor imitation of a post that lacks insight. Take a vacation with the Holy Spirit..As for you supporting someone who never believes Jesus came in the flesh you are welcome to him..typical fair weather friend.

Bidam:
You see your life? You rushed to comment simply because i punched holes in your poor imitation of a post that lacks insight. Take a vacation with the Holy Spirit..As for you supporting someone who never believes Jesus came in the flesh you are welcome to him..typical fair weather friend.

Bidam my boy... leaf story. Even you that hold fervently to the law, you're my friend and brother. We can't beat ourselves up because we disagree. Face the topic and truth and stop this game.

Goshen360:


Bidam my boy... leaf story. Even you that hold fervently to the law, you're my friend and brother. We can't beat ourselves up because we disagree. Face the topic and truth and stop this game.

Who be your boy? A happily married man with two kids na hin be your boy

BTW, since you no like scriptural truth and realities make i use logic puncture you hia..Are you telling me since your penis is circumcised you have falling from grace

Bidam:
Who be your boy? A happily married man with two kids na hin be your boy

BTW, since you no like scriptural truth and realities make i use logic puncture you hia..Are you telling me since your penis is circumcised you have falling from grace

See as you dey yeye yourself from world wide web? After you go say my level of comprehension dey low but I no go insult you.

Wetin I tell you about law before as in 3 aspects? There in lies your answers to question you asked me.

Either way, you still be my boy. ...

Goshen360:


See as you dey yeye yourself from world wide web? After you go say my level of comprehension dey low but I no go insult you.

No be insult, na common sense,Circumcision is done before or after the 8 day of child birth..then naming ceremony..it is still in the proper CONTEXT of our discuss..since your parents are saved by grace dem for no follow do am for u na.

Wetin I tell you about law before as in 3 aspects? There in lies your answers to question you asked me.

Either way, you still be my boy. ...

I don't know what you told me.Just answer the qweshion for viewers to decide. I no be your boy o..i be your Man.

Goshen360:

I told him what it is bro. He is passing through Near Truth Experience(NTE). The process of starting afresh or returning to the original lie when one is about to grasp the truth.

Example NTE:
After showing one the truth from the scripture, he will say, "it is your opinion, Boomark!"

They run away from a particular issue they can't defend when it chokes them but you be surprised to see them defending that thing they don't fully understand in another thread.

Causes: Putting faith in the wrong thing...doctrines of men, while believing it is the truth. They would not want to compromise their faith in the teachings of their Pastors or church fathers even when the scripture does not support their belief.

I remember when one was shown that Christ was crucified on a tree from his own bible by JWs. He said. "it seems these people use juju to cover peoples eye, making them to see tree instead of cross."

Bidam is an NTE guy. One of the oldest.

Bidam:
Who be your boy? A happily married man with two kids na hin be your boy

BTW, since you no like scriptural truth and realities make i use logic puncture you hia..Are you telling me since your penis is circumcised you have falling from grace

You are laughing because you don't know that the bolded is now a circular practice. It is not a requirement from God for Christians. It is no a religious practice for Christians. Circumcision is a mere practice of keeping that body part healthier. Circular practice it is, it has nothing to do with the grace of God.

[quote author=Boomark post=27490012]

You are laughing because you don't know that the bolded is now a circular practice.

, So also is child dedication.

It is not a requirement from God for Christians. It is no a religious practice for Christians. Circumcision is a mere practice of keeping that body part healthier. Circular practice it is, it has nothing to do with the grace of God.

Every thing in life including health issues have to do with the grace of God. Moreover dedicating a Child after circumcision with the lamb or turtle doves and pigeon during the mosaic era was an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper.

They are only a matter of food and drinks and various ceremonial washings-external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

Meanwhile you all are invited to the dedication of my beautiful baby girl today. We shall be officially presenting her to the Giver of all good things.

After the dedication, we can resume the lovely debate.

Your prayers and well wishes are welcomed.

dein77:
Meanwhile you all are invited to the dedication of my beautiful baby girl today. We shall be officially presenting her to the Giver of all good things.

After the dedication, we can resume the lovely debate.

Your prayers and well wishes are welcomed.

Haba, bros.. you did not disclose the venue na? Anyway, may the King of heaven be exalted for this joyous occasion of yours. God bless and keep your baby. Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings God has indeed ordained strength.

Bidam:
Haba, bros.. you did not disclose the venue na? Anyway, may the King of heaven be exalted for this joyous occasion of yours. God bless and keep your baby. Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings God has indeed ordained strength.

Thanks a lot. It's happening in PH...

dein77:



Thanks a lot. It's happening in PH...

Ph, is far from me, my prayers are with you folks.

Bidam:
Ph, is far from me, my prayers are with you folks.

Amen. My prayers are with you over there as well. I pray God cause you to celebrate as well.

Bidam:
So also is child dedication.

Yea, child dedication is a circular practice. It becomes doctrine of men when God did not command it and its been practiced in churches.

Every thing in life including health issues have to do with the grace of God. Moreover dedicating a Child after circumcision with the lamb or turtle doves and pigeon during the mosaic era was an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper.
They are only a matter of food and drinks and various ceremonial washings-external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

Not everything in life is imposed on the church as a doctrine even though they are through the grace of God.

What does the dove and pigeon illustrate in the present time....yam, fowl, can malt, biscuits, chim chim, groundnut oil, etc? Who says what they signify/illustrate, men or God?

Boomark:


Yea, child dedication is a circular practice. It becomes doctrine of men when God did not command it and its been practiced in churches.

God commanded it in the mosaic law, but it isn't binding on Christians just like circumcision.

Not everything in life is imposed on the church as a doctrine even though they are through the grace of God.

No church is imposing child dedication on their members. I have not seen any so far.

What does the dove and pigeon illustrate in the present time....yam, fowl, can malt, biscuits, chim chim, groundnut oil, etc? Who says what they signify/illustrate, men or God?

Like i said earlier, God did away with animal sacrifice for sin, that He might establish the second sacrifice( Jesus), this is Grace and is applicable anywhere. God's approach in this case changed and the Spirit behind the law is what God is interested in. The truth remains the same, but how it is applied in the light of greater understanding may change.

Bidam:

Like i said earlier, God did away with animal sacrifice for sin, that He might establish the second sacrifice( Jesus), this is Grace and is applicable anywhere. God's approach in this case changed and the Spirit behind the law is what God is interested in. The truth remains the same, but how it is applied in the light of greater understanding may change.

Hello Bidam,
Been a while. I hope you are fine and family too.

Thanks for the above as it is so apt. Just this weekend, i was speaking to some people on the word of God and i am so glad the people had a better understanding now. Things that people called old testament now understand the spirit of it. The truth of all God's words and commands remain the same but depends on how we apply it today and i gave examples like the sacrifice that must keep burning on the altar that means our lives should remain a constant burning unto God today. God gave me the idea of the proverbs the elders use that people give contemporary meanings today and they lit up in understanding.

When Paul said the law is spiritual he could not have said it better. So many treasures hidden in His word. So awesome.

@dein77, happy baby dedication of your lovely baby girl to the most High. It is not farfetched on how today's child dedication is applicable for those who chose to do it.

Bidam,
Had the primitive church applied your theory of 'The truth remains the same, but how it is applied in the light of greater understanding may change, ' they would have persisted in the circumcision but they didn't. Circumcision was summarily dismissed in Acts 15 Jerusalem Council. They did not seek its 'greater understanding'. They said it was not a condition for the new covenant. Can you imagine the confusion with some Christians still persisting in the practice but 'under greater understanding'?

They discarded the practice and maintained the inward/spiritual relevance of the same if at all. How can you retain/persist in the external and claim you have a greater understanding? You still keeping the Law

Take Freewill offerings. They burnt animals. Does your church burn animals with a 'greater understanding'? They don't. They take note of the spiritual significance of the freewill offerings WITHOUT retaining the external aspects.

This is the key to understanding tithing. The principle behind it is giving and supporting the ministers. When I support ministers, am operating under the principle of tithing behind Mosaic tithes. I don't have to tithe 10% of my agricultural produce or even income (follow Torah to the letter) to live out this principle

The way you approach child dedication, you are arbitrarily mutilating the Torah practice and whatever you think is relevant for you, you retain. This is subjectivity. Somebody may still deem the turtledoves relevant even today and you would not correct them

In short, you don't have to carry out an OT/Torah practice to walk in its greater understanding/significance/TRUTH

Bidam:

Like i said earlier, God did away with animal sacrifice for sin, that He might establish the second sacrifice( Jesus), this is Grace and is applicable anywhere. God's approach in this case changed and the Spirit behind the law is what God is interested in. The truth remains the same, but how it is applied in the light of greater understanding may change.

Alwaystrue:


Hello Bidam,
Been a while. I hope you are fine and family too.

Thanks for the above as it is so apt. Just this weekend, i was speaking to some people on the word of God and i am so glad the people had a better understanding now. Things that people called old testament now understand the spirit of it. The truth of all God's words and commands remain the same but depends on how we apply it today and i gave examples like the sacrifice that must keep burning on the altar that means our lives should remain a constant burning unto God today. God gave me the idea of the proverbs the elders use that people give contemporary meanings today and they lit up in understanding.

When Paul said the law is spiritual he could not have said it better. So many treasures hidden in His word. So awesome.

@dein77, happy baby dedication of your lovely baby girl to the most High. It is not farfetched on how today's child dedication is applicable for those who chose to do it.

Thanks dear. The dedication went wella. Good morning.

Bidam:
God commanded it in the mosaic law, but it isn't binding on Christians just like circumcision.

No church is imposing child dedication on their members. I have not seen any so far.

Ok.

Like i said earlier, God did away with animal sacrifice for sin, that He might establish the second sacrifice( Jesus), this is Grace and is applicable anywhere. God's approach in this case changed and the Spirit behind the law is what God is interested in. The truth remains the same, but how it is applied in the light of greater understanding may change.

The second sacrifice (Jesus) Automatically sanctified and dedicated us to God, 1Cor 1:2. This is the power of the law fulfil. No manual methods.

But men who are not satisfied with that automatic dedication through the death of Christ, may be because ignorance, lack of faith in the law fulfilled by Christ, or may be because they did not say amen when Christ said "it is finished on the cross," they now went ahead to do another dedication by imitating the law.

God is interested in the spirit behind the law fulfilled, not the practice or imitation of the law of Moses.

Approach matters and the two cannot lead to the same truth. The first is faulty, the second is perfect. God wants the second for us and that is the one we should go for.

Alwaystrue:


Hello Bidam,
Been a while. I hope you are fine and family too.

Thanks for the above as it is so apt. Just this weekend, i was speaking to some people on the word of God and i am so glad the people had a better understanding now. Things that people called old testament now understand the spirit of it. The truth of all God's words and commands remain the same but depends on how we apply it today and i gave examples like the sacrifice that must keep burning on the altar that means our lives should remain a constant burning unto God today. God gave me the idea of the proverbs the elders use that people give contemporary meanings today and they lit up in understanding.

When Paul said the law is spiritual he could not have said it better. So many treasures hidden in His word. So awesome.

@dein77, happy baby dedication of your lovely baby girl to the most High. It is not farfetched on how today's child dedication is applicable for those who chose to do it.

Hey mama, it's been a while. you just abandon us after the grace convention.

Family is basking in the goodness of the Lord. Hope yours is too. Thanks for the input again.

What i meant was that the truth of the covenant had not changed, but God's approach had.

vooks:
Bidam,
Had the primitive church applied your theory of 'The truth remains the same, but how it is applied in the light of greater understanding may change, ' they would have persisted in the circumcision but they didn't. Circumcision was summarily dismissed in Acts 15 Jerusalem Council. They did not seek its 'greater understanding'. They said it was not a condition for the new covenant. Can you imagine the confusion with some Christians still persisting in the practice but 'under greater understanding'?

They discarded the practice and maintained the inward/spiritual relevance of the same if at all. How can you retain/persist in the external and claim you have a greater understanding? You still keeping the Law

Take Freewill offerings. They burnt animals. Does your church burn animals with a 'greater understanding'? They don't. They take note of the spiritual significance of the freewill offerings WITHOUT retaining the external aspects.

This is the key to understanding tithing. The principle behind it is giving and supporting the ministers. When I support ministers, am operating under the principle of tithing behind Mosaic tithes. I don't have to tithe 10% of my agricultural produce or even income (follow Torah to the letter) to live out this principle

The way you approach child dedication, you are arbitrarily mutilating the Torah practice and whatever you think is relevant for you, you retain. This is subjectivity. Somebody may still deem the turtledoves relevant even today and you would not correct them

In short, you don't have to carry out an OT/Torah practice to walk in its greater understanding/significance/TRUTH

There are constant and variables. Child dedication is not a constant to start with. No one is advocating here that it is mandatory for all Christians. If you are led by the Spirit of the Lord to dedicate your child to the lord, good and fine. I am not delving into technicalities here but motive.

Boomark:


Ok.



The second sacrifice (Jesus) Automatically sanctified and dedicated us to God, 1Cor 1:2. This is the power of the law fulfil. No manual methods.

But men who are not satisfied with that automatic dedication through the death of Christ, may be because ignorance, lack of faith in the law fulfilled by Christ, or may be because they did not say amen when Christ said "it is finished on the cross," they now went ahead to do another dedication by imitating the law.

God is interested in the spirit behind the law fulfilled, not the practice or imitation of the law of Moses.

Approach matters and the two cannot lead to the same truth. The first is faulty, the second is perfect. God wants the second for us and that is the one we should go for.

Juxtapose this statement against an Old covenant practice called circumcision. Is there ANY more accurate/faith/new way of performing circumcision in the New covenant? Paul thinks not.
Whatever truth is behind circumcision is easily realized WITHOUT performing circumcision.
Whatever truth is behind tithing,burnt offerings,Freewill offerings is realized WITHOUT tithing,burnt offerings,Freewill offerings
Whatever truth is behind dedication is realized without dedication or modified dedication

Bidam:
What i meant was that the truth of the covenant had not changed, but God's approach had.

Child dedication shouldn't be abolished Christ was dedicated in the temple u can read dat in the book of (Luke 2 vs 25,28). Dedication is all about taking the child back to God. Thanking God and handing over the child to Him(God).


Pls, I hope u got me right.

vooks:
Juxtapose this statement against an Old covenant practice called circumcision. Is there ANY more accurate/faith/new way of performing circumcision in the New covenant? Paul thinks not.
Whatever truth is behind circumcision is easily realized WITHOUT performing circumcision.
Whatever truth is behind tithing,burnt offerings,Freewill offerings is realized WITHOUT tithing,burnt offerings,Freewill offerings
Whatever truth is behind dedication is realized without dedication or modified dedication

So can you tell us the truth behind the listed that is easily realized?

Tithing, the truth behind this is supporting the poor and the ministers
Circumcision, anything happening at the spirit,conversion
Freewill offerings- giving WITHOUT compulsion.
Dedication- train up your kids in the things of God

Verses are available on request

Bidam:
So can you tell us the truth behind the listed that is easily realized?

vooks:
Tithing, the truth behind this is supporting the poor and the ministers
Circumcision, anything happening at the spirit,conversion
Freewill offerings- giving WITHOUT compulsion.
Dedication- train up your kids in the things of God

Verses are available on request

I am more interested in the child dedication

Bidam:
Hey mama, it's been a while. you just abandon us after the grace convention.

Family is basking in the goodness of the Lord. Hope yours is too. Thanks for the input again.

Lol. I no fit na. Been around and lend my voice where necessary. Good to know your family are well. Yes my family is blessed, quantum leaps happening. Lots to do in the kingdom aye. Thanks.

I have shared briefly what I believe dedication means.

When borrowing OT concepts, I find it wise to aks if primitive Christians did it and if not why not or what they did.

Tithing is a LATE tradition at least 400 years after Pentecost. That is quite telling. The problem with believers is they shun history when it condemns them but embrace it when it supports their stand. Please study child dedication history

Bidam:
I am more interested in the child dedication

vooks:
I have shared briefly what I believe dedication means.

When borrowing OT concepts, I find it wise to aks if primitive Christians did it and if not why not or what they did.

Tithing is a LATE tradition at least 400 years after Pentecost. That is quite telling. The problem with believers is they shun history when it condemns them but embrace it when it supports their stand. Please study child dedication history

Exactly my approach to the tithe issue. Immediately it occurred to me Apostle Paul and the other Early Church didn't speak about Tithe, I made up my mind concerning it. Nobody can place a curse on whom Christ has been made a curse for!

Till date, it's my nature to check every single conviction of mine one a superior argument is presented before me. The era of clinging to beliefs just because they have been there for centuries is long gone.