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Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? - Culture - Nairaland

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Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by bebure(m): 9:10pm On Jul 04, 2008
This transcends beyond African countries. If you go to Cuba, Brazil, The United States or even the U.K. you find that blacks tend to fare a lot worse than all the other races economically and socially. This week in London there have been 6 stabbings majority of which where carried out by black youths. I know there a many successful black people in Nigeria, in Africa and the rest of the world but the fact is that as a whole we fair much much worse than others and no amount of personal success academically, professionally, socially or financially can make me feel great about myself until we can figure out a way to solve this problem.
I'm just gonna throw this out there as well, if you've ever watched sweet 16 on mtv you'll notice that the black kids parents are almost always celebrities but the white kids, latina kids and all the other kids' parents are just wealthy unknowns. I think that the show highlights the extent of the problem in a way.
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by manmustwac(m): 9:27pm On Jul 04, 2008
at some point in time all black nations were colonized by the white nations and all black people in these nations have african origins. And black people don't like progress.

we are the ones holding ourselves back. Greed is the main reason why we're not progressing
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by EXPONENT(m): 2:31am On Jul 05, 2008
you NEED to LEARN YOUR HISTORY.

blacks have and are historically been oppressed by the YT.

Dang, YOU STOOPID! shocked
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by bebure(m): 11:50am On Jul 05, 2008
EXPONENT:

you NEED to LEARN YOUR HISTORY.

blacks have and are historically been oppressed by the YT.

Dang, YOU STOOPID! shocked

I am very aware of the history of blacks. I am asking about the current state of things. History is in the past, we are in the now. Of course our history has been a major part of the problem (I think we are all aware of that) but surely that is not the only reason for the overall lack of success.
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by Hero(m): 12:10pm On Jul 05, 2008
corruptive greed, lack of discipline, lack of self worth, and lack of need. Every time a black nation gets into a bit of a jam, they jump at the opportunity to accept the whit and or yellow mans help to get them out of it instead of persevering in finding their own creative ways to pull themselves out. This has incurred upon the these nations a very needy mentality, too needy to get anything productive done on their own.
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by maedan(f): 10:58am On Jul 07, 2008
bebure:


I'm just going to throw this out there as well, if you've ever watched sweet 16 on mtv you'll notice that the black kids parents are almost always celebrities but the white kids, latina kids and all the other kids' parents are just wealthy unknowns. I think that the show highlights the extent of the problem in a way.

yes, I've wondered about that issue on the show as well. But then "sweet 16s" basically a white culture, just like halloween and thanksgiving in America used to be. So long as black people want to fit into white celebrations, they may always be second place.

About this African poverty: it's so true: we're no more colonised, but we still can't make our country work! Is there someone pressing buttons somewhere so that no matter how we try, Africa will always be the DARK continent?

God should help us and our future generations. Amen. wink
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by naijacutee(f): 2:36pm On Jul 07, 2008
Botswana is successful - No?
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by lazy(m): 4:09pm On Jul 07, 2008
@poster

Good topic. I wish I had an answer.
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by lazy(m): 4:13pm On Jul 07, 2008
naijacutee:

Botswana is successful - No?

I guess it is up to the poster how they define success when they thought of this topic
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by bebure(m): 4:56pm On Jul 07, 2008
When I say successful, I mean at the same level as other nations around the world. Success to me is a situation whereby you are an economical power. Where your policies and actions affect the rest of the international community in a very significant way. You also have to look at things like life expectancy, in Botswana it is currently 51 years old for men and 49 for women (not exactly good), 37% of the population is infected with HIV. To be fair though the country has a high level of literacy (about 80%), economic growth is one of the highest in the world, the GDP per capital is about $15,000 (Nigeria's is $2000 big big shame). On a worldwide scale Botswana does quite well in some areas such as GDP/capital, economic growth and literacy but in areas such as HIV it has about the highest infection rate in the world. Overall though it fairs much better than other African countries but being the best of the worst does not make a country successful.
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by lazy(m): 5:12pm On Jul 07, 2008
bebure:

When I say successful, I mean at the same level as other nations around the world. Success to me is a situation whereby you are an economical power. Where your policies and actions affect the rest of the international community in a very significant way. You also have to look at things like life expectancy, in Botswana it is currently 51 years old for men and 49 for women (not exactly good), 37% of the population is infected with HIV. To be fair though the country has a high level of literacy (about 80%), economic growth is one of the highest in the world, the GDP per capital is about $15,000 (Nigeria's is $2000 big big shame). On a worldwide scale Botswana does quite well in some areas such as GDP/capital, economic growth and literacy but in areas such as HIV it has about the highest infection rate in the world. Overall though it fairs much better than other African countries but being the best of the worst does not make a country successful.

I understand what you mean by successful now.
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by dclokz(m): 5:29pm On Jul 07, 2008
[what are these people up to, i think these guy are al bunch of lies, there,s no money in forex tradig, it,s all bullshit, prove me wrong
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by Hero(m): 5:47pm On Jul 07, 2008
Liberia was one when the AA ran it, though when the natives took over,  it all went to crap as usual. You folks have too many conflicting tribal/ethnic hang ups to get anything done right. The simplest tasks like voting turn into violent, murderous blood bath events. It triflingly ridiculous.  angry What kind of mindset must a people possess to go out and massacre  over 3000 people with machetes and other blunt objects in a span of a few days simply because simply because some white dude in far away Europe said something negative about their faith? What kind of mindset must it take, to go out and systematically slaughter nearly 1 million people in just a few days simply because the said people were of the ethnic group of most of the leaders in your nation? Satanic is what kind as far as I'm concerned.  angry

Now, I'm not saying that this is the mindset of all on the African continent though it is so of enough to keep poo from working smoothly there.
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by naijacutee(f): 9:52am On Oct 24, 2008
Hero, you have your nose in the air but you are kind of right. These problems arise in uneducated circles because of lack of education, and in educated circles, because of lack of exposure. When you make judgements, do remember that people (Including yourself) are a product of their a.) Genetic make-up b.) Environment c.) Experiences - None of these, which they have control over. If you had been born in Liberia, raised in the slums and tutored on how to hate foreigners, would your actions have been any different from theirs? How do you know?
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by davidif(m): 9:55am On Oct 25, 2008
here they go again always blaming oyinbo, nonsense. What of the Asian countries?? didn't they go through the same thing we went through??
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by presido1: 10:45am On Oct 25, 2008
Which Asian nations and how are they now?
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by bawomolo(m): 10:18pm On Oct 25, 2008
Hero:

Liberia was one when the AA ran it, though when the natives took over,  it all went to crap as usual. You folks have too many conflicting tribal/ethnic hang ups to get anything done right. The simplest tasks like voting turn into violent, murderous blood bath events. It triflingly ridiculous.  angry What kind of mindset must a people possess to go out and massacre  over 3000 people with machetes and other blunt objects in a span of a few days simply because simply because some white dude in far away Europe said something negative about their faith? What kind of mindset must it take, to go out and systematically slaughter nearly 1 million people in just a few days simply because the said people were of the ethnic group of most of the leaders in your nation? Satanic is what kind as far as I'm concerned.  angry

Now, I'm not saying that this is the mindset of all on the African continent though it is so of enough to keep poo from working smoothly there.

i find it hillarious you claim liberia was a successful nation when AA's ran it. you mean the liberian nation where the natives were segregated against or the same liberia controlled by the firestone rubber company.
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by blackspade(m): 4:50am On Oct 26, 2008
Bahamas, Botswana, Cape Verde, Equatorial Guinea, and Gabon all come to mind, but it depends on what you define as "successful".
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by romeo(m): 1:05pm On Oct 26, 2008
blackspade:

Bahamas, Botswana, Cape Verde, Equatorial Guinea, and Gabon all come to mind, but it depends on what you define as "successful".


Bostwana's population is so tiny, 1.6 million. (diamond)

Cape Verde's population is less than half a million.(

Equitorial Guinea's population is 616,459

Gabon's population is 1,485,832.

these are tiny states
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by Sauron1: 2:30pm On Oct 26, 2008
bebure:

This transcends beyond African countries. If you go to Cuba, Brazil, The United States or even the UK. you find that blacks tend to fare a lot worse than all the other races economically and socially. This week in London there have been 6 stabbings majority of which where carried out by black youths. I know there a many successful black people in Nigeria, in Africa and the rest of the world but the fact is that as a whole we fair much much worse than others and no amount of personal success academically, professionally, socially or financially can make me feel great about myself until we can figure out a way to solve this problem.
I'm just going to throw this out there as well, if you've ever watched sweet 16 on mtv you'll notice that the black kids parents are almost always celebrities but the white kids, latina kids and all the other kids' parents are just wealthy unknowns. I think that the show highlights the extent of the problem in a way.

The answer is simple. . . . . .This is because Black people have not been given the opportunity to excel in the major facets of life.
Showbiz and Sports are the only areas u can actually say there's a level playing field. . . .
Think of it as institutionalised RACISM.
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by chiogo(f): 9:08pm On Oct 26, 2008
~Sauron~:

The answer is simple. . . . . .This is because Black people have not been given the opportunity to excel in the major facets of life.
Showbiz and Sports are the only areas u can actually say there's a level playing field. . . .
Think of it as institutionalised RACISM.
Huh?? who didn't give them opportunity?? There we go again blaming the white man.

@topic, Like somebody said, it's due to greed by the people and corruption by the government!!!
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by blackspade(m): 9:32pm On Oct 26, 2008
romeo:


Bostwana's population is so tiny, 1.6 million. (diamond)

Cape Verde's population is less than half a million.(

Equitorial Guinea's population is 616,459

Gabon's population is 1,485,832.

these are tiny states
That's not a credible reason to undermine their success. Going by your logic, I guess we can then say Sweden, Norway, Denmark, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, and Israel aren't successful, because their populations aren't as big as you'd like them to be? I think not.

The reason why Botswana, and Cape Verde are so successful is because the people in charge know where to put the money. Botswana has a large Diamond industry, and their leaders use that Diamond money to rebuild the country, and help the people, and that's why their H.D.I. (Human Development Index) is so high.

The reason Cape Verde is so successful is also because their leaders are also responsible for maintaining the well being of the country. Another reason why Cape Verde is so successful, and is still growing, is because of it's booming tourism industry, and how the leaders are aggressively promoting the country in Europe, and other areas. Many people predict Cape Verde becoming the next Canary Islands, so watch out for them.

Equatorial Guinea, and Gabon are largely successful because of their vast oil reserves, and Gabon also has a growing eco-tourism industry.

E.G. doesn't have the best leader (because he's a military dictator), and he allows still a large portion of his people to go hungry, but things are improving in that country with a massive national reconstruction effort occuring, with many people being moved from slums into adequate housing, amongst other services.

Gabon's leaders are adequate, but could be better. As I said before, they have large oil reserves (which is in large part why they're so successful), but they are slowly starting to become leaders in tourism. Gabon also has a high H.D.I., and they also have a growing Agricultural industry, with government trying to reach self sufficiency by growing their own crops.

South Africa is also successful, but I didn't mention it in the first place because I thought the obvious needn't have to be said. In about 5 years, I'd add Angola to that list, because the sheer pace of their development is just amazing.
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by DisGuy: 12:45am On Oct 27, 2008
romeo:


Bostwana's population is so tiny, 1.6 million. (diamond)

Cape Verde's population is less than half a million.(

Equitorial Guinea's population is 616,459

Gabon's population is 1,485,832.

these are tiny states

these countries are successful you can exactly expect every country to have some sort of international influence
you have to think about nature and geographical location too, these countries have been able to use what they have
if you happen to be a small country with small population, that not their fault
if you happen to be rich and landlocked without a sea port then you use what you have
some of them also have unfavourable climatic conditions (in terms of agriculture, diseases, tourism)
that is obviously beyond their control
apart from oil some middle-eastern countries are not that influential
and to some extent some countries in Europe are not that influential!!
they just have happen to be in the 'Europe' and like those in Africa use what they have
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by DisGuy: 12:50am On Oct 27, 2008
I'm just going to throw this out there as well, if you've ever watched sweet 16 on mtv you'll notice that the black kids parents are almost always celebrities but the white kids, latina kids and all the other kids' parents are just wealthy unknowns. I think that the show highlights the extent of the problem in a way.
no it doesnt! abeg stop watching sweet 16!

I don't think any decent black unknown should appear on MTV for the wrong reason too crass to flaunt wealth for
dumbdown show like sweet sixteen
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by Sauron1: 12:59am On Oct 27, 2008
chiogo:

Huh?? who didn't give them opportunity?? There we go again blaming the white man.

@topic, Like somebody said, it's due to greed by the people and corruption by the government!!!

22 million and 75% of the Prison system are BLACKS!!!!
Is that the opportunity you are talking about. . . . . .

What would likely become a child raised with no father figure?
Hoods where men are jobless(because they are ex-cons) and a gun store is situated near a liquor store.
Chiogo. . . . . .THINK!!!
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by chiogo(f): 8:03pm On Oct 27, 2008
Damn! ~Sauron~, take it easy.

First of all, the topic says 'Black nations'. You seem to be focusing on the United States(no?), which is really no man's land but still run by the whites because they have the highest population.

Secondly, I was talking about Nigeria specifically. It is a black nation, right? Who is denying them this opportunity you're talking about? C'mon, the country is run by Nigerians.
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by huxley(m): 2:47pm On Oct 31, 2008
Interesting. What do you mean by "successful" and how do you measure success?

Think of the following scenarios.

1) A society that has and enjoys great infrastructural and technological developments, and some measure of state governance (as in good roads, housing, etc) but neglects and ill-treats the underprivilede. Most ancient empire of the past were such societies (Roman, Aztecs, etc).


In their day, the Aztecs would have been considered an advanced and "successful" society. Should we considered the fact that they routinely sacrificed thousands of other humans to their gods and unfortunate aspect of their development. Or should we consider it a core element of success?

To the Romans, human life seem to have little value. They routinely abandoned unwanted children, organised games in which humans would fight to the death, etc, etc. Yet they also enjoyed some of the best amenities of their times in the world.

2) A society that largely relies on outside labour and brainpower for its functioning.


I contend that what we seen today as development is probably the first time such has emerge in human history. Something extraodinary happened about 400 years ago, with the development of the scientific method and the enlightenment. There is truly no record in human history of these two elements having exerted great influence as they have in the last few hundred years.

For instance, under the scientific mode of thinking, it is no longer enough to be satisfied with the knowledge that the addition of coke to iron would create more ductile and usable steel. It is no longer sufficient to accept that certain combinations of natural herbs would cure a disease. The scientific mind would be interested in asking more fundamental question about why these are so.

The enlightenment created the general climate in which such deep fundamental questions could be asked. It was no longer going to accept the rule of authority and tradition. Nothing was regarded as sacrosanct anymore, everything would be subject to the most thoroughgoing examination and scrutiny.


I contend that any society that imbibes the tenets of the scientific rationalism and the ethos of the enlightenment would be a society on the royal road to development and "success".


I usually ask my friends the following question;

Imagine that there was a global natural catastrophe in which all countries (nations) but one were destroyed. What are the chances that that one surviving country would have re-created the state of development we have in the 21st century.

Supposing the only country to survive such a calamity was America. To what exend would the American be deprived by the loss of the entire world but Americans.

Now, supposing the only country to survive were Nigeria. What are the chances of Nigeria re-creating the state of knowledge we have in the 21st century? How long will it take - 100, 400, 1000, 40000 years?

This brings me to my second criteria of a "successful" society. A society with great respect of intellectual capital, and great reserves of such capital. I did try to address this subject in another thread , but alas there were few willing to contribute their views.

My own personal anecdotal observation is this - African cultural life does NOT promote and favour intellectualism. In fact, the same can be said of the cultural millieu of African American life. There is a class of the so-called educated, but such have become essentially tradesmen in the various specialism - tradesmen doctors, trademen computer scientists, tradesmen teachers, etc, etc. Such people, outside of their day job, would hardly open a book or be interested in intellectual affairs outside of their jobs.
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by bawomolo(m): 3:58pm On Oct 31, 2008
22 million and 75% of the Prison system are BLACKS!!!!

please stop spreading false statistics. the number is only about 50 percent or so. blacks and Hispanics combine to form 2/3 of the prison population.

What would likely become a child raised with no father figure?

white man's fault
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by agaba123(m): 4:01pm On Oct 31, 2008
The white man hired slaves who went around the plantations to impregant the women. That led to many black Americans growing up without a father figure.

I think that is still hunting them till date. A guy raised without a father will not know what it means to be a good father.

Well what about other black nations?
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by ezeagu(m): 4:05pm On Oct 31, 2008
First tell which "black" nations put themselves together the we can start from there. . .
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by bawomolo(m): 4:06pm On Oct 31, 2008
That led to many black Americans growing up without a father figure.

nope, wrong again. the slaves actually had an effective communal structure.  single family homes in the AA community and in general have been increasing since 60's. let's stop blaming the white one for once.


A guy raised without a father will not know what it means to be a good father.

wrong he can still have good male role models. there are many uncles and male relatives who can step up to the plate. lots of people have broken the cycle of deadbeat fathers.
Re: Why Aren't There Any Successful Black Nations In The World? by PollMaster: 8:51pm On Oct 31, 2008
agaba123:

The white man hired slaves who went around the plantations to impregant the women. That led to many black Americans growing up without a father figure.

I think that is still hunting them till date. A guy raised without a father will not know what it means to be a good father.

Well what about other black nations?

lmao.
lmao again.

huxley:

Interesting. What do you mean by "successful" and how do you measure success?

Think of the following scenarios.

1) A society that has and enjoys great infrastructural and technological developments, and some measure of state governance (as in good roads, housing, etc) but neglects and ill-treats the underprivilede. Most ancient empire of the past were such societies (Roman, Aztecs, etc).


In their day, the Aztecs would have been considered an advanced and "successful" society. Should we considered the fact that they routinely sacrificed thousands of other humans to their gods and unfortunate aspect of their development. Or should we consider it a core element of success?

To the Romans, human life seem to have little value. They routinely abandoned unwanted children, organised games in which humans would fight to the death, etc, etc. Yet they also enjoyed some of the best amenities of their times in the world.

2) A society that largely relies on outside labour and brainpower for its functioning.


I contend that what we seen today as development is probably the first time such has emerge in human history. Something extraodinary happened about 400 years ago, with the development of the scientific method and the enlightenment. There is truly no record in human history of these two elements having exerted great influence as they have in the last few hundred years.

For instance, under the scientific mode of thinking, it is no longer enough to be satisfied with the knowledge that the addition of coke to iron would create more ductile and usable steel. It is no longer sufficient to accept that certain combinations of natural herbs would cure a disease. The scientific mind would be interested in asking more fundamental question about why these are so.

The enlightenment created the general climate in which such deep fundamental questions could be asked. It was no longer going to accept the rule of authority and tradition. Nothing was regarded as sacrosanct anymore, everything would be subject to the most thoroughgoing examination and scrutiny.


I contend that any society that imbibes the tenets of the scientific rationalism and the ethos of the enlightenment would be a society on the royal road to development and "success".


I usually ask my friends the following question;

Imagine that there was a global natural catastrophe in which all countries (nations) but one were destroyed. What are the chances that that one surviving country would have re-created the state of development we have in the 21st century.

Supposing the only country to survive such a calamity was America. To what exend would the American be deprived by the loss of the entire world but Americans.

Now, supposing the only country to survive were Nigeria. What are the chances of Nigeria re-creating the state of knowledge we have in the 21st century? How long will it take - 100, 400, 1000, 40000 years?

This brings me to my second criteria of a "successful" society. A society with great respect of intellectual capital, and great reserves of such capital. I did try to address this subject in another thread , but alas there were few willing to contribute their views.

My own personal anecdotal observation is this - African cultural life does NOT promote and favour intellectualism. In fact, the same can be said of the cultural millieu of African American life. There is a class of the so-called educated, but such have become essentially tradesmen in the various specialism - tradesmen doctors, trademen computer scientists, tradesmen teachers, etc, etc. Such people, outside of their day job, would hardly open a book or be interested in intellectual affairs outside of their jobs.

Now this is an answer.I dnt agree with the highlighted portion though
Nigeria simply does not allow you to discover.We just look and look and look.Then we complain.Then we sleep.
Please let us stop looking at other people before we do it.

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