Pastor Kun: @rapture_ready
Stop forcing your opinion into scripture as none of the verses you quoted forbids a christian from taking wine.

Pastor Kun: Even our lord Jesus Christ took alcoholic wine contrary to the impression you are trying to create. Luke 7:33-34 makes it clear the wine in question is alcoholic otherwise the issue of being drunk would not even arise.

Luke 7:33
33 For John the Baptist is come eating no bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a demon. 34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold, a gluttonous man, and a drunkard, a friend of publicans and sinners!

Image123: The very instance that Timothy was told/permitted to take wine for his health is indication that he was priorly forbidden.

Pastor Kun:

Why don't you just supply us scriptures that states it was forbidden instead of making daft assumptions

rapture_ready:

Hi pastor kun, sori I couldn't get bak 2 u, had stuff 2 do. Those verses I quoted say "woe" which if I remember correctly means "cursed". What other way can something be more strongly condemned than attaching "cursed" to it?

Like when Jesus said "woe unto you scribes and pharisees, hypocrites..." Does it mean that we can indulge in hypocrisy in moderation, only don't do it in excess?



I think you may be interpreting luke 7:33 out of context. If you look at it from verse 24 - 35 or at least from verse 30, you will see what he was trying to say.

The pharisees and lawmakers who had rejected John the baptist for his lifestyle where rejecting him also

Luke 7:30 ...but the pharisees and lawmakers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptised of him...

And Jesus said in verse 31

Luke 7:31 ...whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? And to what are they like?

Pay attention to the later part of verse 32

Luke 7:32b ...we have piped unto you and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you and ye have not danced.

Jesus was saying; We do una like this, una no wan take; we still do una dis oda way una still no wan take. How we go cari do una na?

This is prelude to what he was saying in verse 33-34, which means; John the baptist came to you in this way, you rejected him and me I came in another way and yet you still reject me.

He was rebuking the pharisees for using fault-finding to reject God's word.

Luke 7:33-34 in the right context means "to you, somebody who neither eats nor drinks has a demon, and somebody who eats and drinks is a glutton and drunkard, who then will you people accept?

Pastor Kun:

Why don't you just supply us scriptures that states it was forbidden instead of making daft assumptions

Image123: Just did a quick search to help some to a link that says something similar. Note the following quote from the link.
"In many countries any drink with less than 0.5% ABV can legally be
described as non-alcoholic , because your body can metabolise the
alcohol as fast as you consume the drink. Although all orange juice
contains alcohol, the quantity is low enough that you won’t get
intoxicated from it, even if you drink many glasses of it. However in
places with zero-tolerance rules against driving with any measurable
alcohol in your blood, you might need to be careful if you are a very
heavy orange juice drinker."

http://quezi.com/14067

Image123:

Learned people know that the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof, and that there is nothing unclean of itself. Learned people also know that every fruit contains sugar and ethanol. The content/percentage increases with fermentation. This is basic science and rural palm wine knowledge. Your sugar, your coca-cola, your medicine, lt all contains the likes of alcohol, cocaine, hemp and such banned substances.
Google is still free for your learning. You can't compare the fruit of the vine and whatever other fruit juice with alcohol content of about 0.1% or less to the likes of gin and whisky(above 40% alcohol), spirit(above 80%), brandy(35%) or beer(above 2% depending on which and not to mention the fishes and carton devourers that help multiply the percentage).
The bible solemnly discourages intake of alcoholic wine.

Image123:

i see you dodged the two posts i gave past 12pm today. i already gave Proverbs 31:4 as well. There is no assuming. Timothy was permitted to drink wine on health grounds, yes or no?

Pastor Kun:

Since when did a proverb of solomon become a commandment from God And listen to yourself, based of your daft logic you are saying Paul permitted timothy to sin on health grounds you can as well say Jesus permitted his disciples to sin at the last supper and further gave all christians instruction to sin when he said we should take wine and bread in his memory.

Pastor Kun:

Since when did a proverb of solomon become a commandment from God And listen to yourself, based of your daft logic you are saying Paul permitted timothy to sin on health grounds you can as well say Jesus permitted his disciples to sin at the last supper and further gave all christians instruction to sin when he said we should take wine and bread in his memory.

Eph 5:18 ...and be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess, but be filled with the spirit

simple2004: is it a sin for christian to drink wine or alcoholic drinks? matured answers with bible references from christian pls.

Pastor Kun:

Stop trying to twist scriptures bros,

Pastor Kun:
Jesus stated very clearly in the verse that he drinks alcoholic wine and hypocrites accuse him of being a drunkard just because he drinks wine.

Pastor Kun:
It's crystal clear from that passage that Jesus not only drank wine but the wine was also alcoholic otherwise there would have been no reason to accuse him of being a drunkard if it was just fruit juice.

Pastor Kun:
Of course I don't need to remind you that Jesus also produced alcoholic wine at the wedding in canaan and he shared wine with his disciples at the last supper amongst several other occasions.

ayoku777:

The wine that Jesus drank at the passover is the same wine the apostles drink during the communion.

And Paul, when rebuking the greediness of the corinthians during communion in 1Cor 11v21 said 'For in eating everyone taketh before other his own supper, and one is hungry and another is DRUNKEN'.

You can NEVER get drunk on a non-alcoholic wine. So the wine the early church drank and even used for communion was ALCOHOLIC. So scripture is not against taking wine, indiscretion is what scripture rebuked.

So its not a sin to take wine, but let everything be done in moderation

Pastor Kun:

Since when did a proverb of solomon become a commandment from God And listen to yourself, based of your daft logic you are saying Paul permitted timothy to sin on health grounds you can as well say Jesus permitted his disciples to sin at the last supper and further gave all christians instruction to sin when he said we should take wine and bread in his memory.

Lordlexyy: On the basis of what was Christ accused of drunkenness? Was it on juice or alcoholic wine? The fact that drukenness was attached to what ever substance He took suggest that He actual took alcoholic wine. Moreover, Paul admonishing timothy to take a little wine, shows that the consumption of it is not sin itself but it abuses. Like timothy, most ppl take it for diff reasons, some for merryment which the bible is never against, others on health ground et al. Which ever way, the effect of it subjectively tells if you have sin or not, thus the scripture that says what a man takes in doesn't condemn him but what comes out of him.

ayoku777:

The wine that Jesus drank at the passover is the same wine the apostles drink during the communion.

And Paul, when rebuking the greediness of the corinthians during communion in 1Cor 11v21 said 'For in eating everyone taketh before other his own supper, and one is hungry and another is DRUNKEN'.

You can NEVER get drunk on a non-alcoholic wine. So the wine the early church drank and even used for communion was ALCOHOLIC. So scripture is not against taking wine, indiscretion is what scripture rebuked.

So its not a sin to take wine, but let everything be done in moderation

Pastor Kun:

Thanx so much for the scripture above. I have been trying to remember the verse so as to quote it. It also proves beyond any iota of reasonable doubt that the wine Jesus and the apostles drank is alcoholic even though some hypocrites would rather twist scriptures and force their ill informed opinions on believers.

bridleth not his tongue (or fingers)

Lordlexyy: On the basis of what was Christ accused of drunkenness? Was it on juice or alcoholic wine? The fact that drukenness was attached to what ever substance He took suggest that He actual took alcoholic wine. Moreover, Paul admonishing timothy to take a little wine, shows that the consumption of it is not sin itself but it abuses. Like timothy, most ppl take it for diff reasons, some for merryment which the bible is never against, others on health ground et al. Which ever way, the effect of it subjectively tells if you have sin or not, thus the scripture that says what a man takes in doesn't condemn him but what comes out of him.

rapture_ready:

1. Like I stated above, the verse does not.

2. Somebody disagreeing with your point of view don't make him "daft", a "hypocrite" or "ill-informed"

The bible says something vital;

James 1:26 ... If any man among you seem to be religious and bridleth not his tongue (or fingers), this man's religion is vain.

James 3:9-12 ... Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the simlitude of God
Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethen, these things ought not so to be...

ayoku777:

The wine that Jesus drank at the passover is the same wine the apostles drink during the communion.

And Paul, when rebuking the greediness of the corinthians during communion in 1Cor 11v21 said 'For in eating everyone taketh before other his own supper, and one is hungry and another is DRUNKEN'.

You can NEVER get drunk on a non-alcoholic wine. So the wine the early church drank and even used for communion was ALCOHOLIC. So scripture is not against taking wine, indiscretion is what scripture rebuked.

So its not a sin to take wine, but let everything be done in moderation

Image123:

Kunle is not exactly what one would call a christian.

rapture_ready:

Ah ah na, image,

The guy has some strong views, and unfortunately an unwholesome style of passing them across.

However, make u no pass dat kain judgement on am na.

Na u die 4 him sins?

Let's all have a civil discussion in brotherhood.

ayoku777: This is why i don't reply most posts. This is what scripture calls 'gainsaying'. When it suits you, you say a passage or word in scripture is literal, when it doesn't suit you, you call it a 'hyperbole' or 'figurative' expression

So paul was talking about REAL bread and REAL wine, but he meant 'hungry' and 'drunken' figuratively

So the disciples were 'figuratively' drunk during communion?

When christians begin to interprete scriptures this way, its called gainsaying.

Was it not the same fruit of the vine that Jesus drank that Noah also drank and got drunk?

Gen 9v20-21 ...and Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a VINEYARD. And he drank of the wine and was DRUNKEN.

Or drunken here is also figurative? Or his own was not new like that of Jesus? Vine wine is alcoholic old or new. And it will get you drunk if you take it without discretion.

Stop gainsaying - saying passages are figurative or literal as it suits your view. Thats trying to make scriptures say what you want it to say. You so badly want to say the wine Jesus and the disciples drank is not alcoholic. But vine wine is alcoholic.

Goshen360:

Why do you have to force me to come and say something in this thread today? I have been reading many threads offline throughout today but decided not to comment. Yours is truly the truth - these people are gainsayers though are from the brethren. They can't deal with simple truth and plain scriptures. They want to force their own opinion into what was written but the Apostle said "do not go beyond what is written".

I have said it before and will say it again, a law-led Christian will always see sin in every action s\he does or will ask question such as, is it a sin to drink wine? But a Spirit-led Christian will ask the Spirit, can I drink some wine today? There's work to do among Christians, especially, the Nigerian Christians.

Oh before I forget, they can deal with the words of our Lord since every word of Christ applies to Christians he said and I quote, "It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man but what comes out of from his mouth for out of the heart, the mouth speaks"

ayoku777:

Totally agree with you here. Once we become gainsayers, the scriptures can no more instruct us, coz we will interprete it with our sentiments.

How have you been?

rapture_ready: If Jesus had however wanted us to be drinking alcohol the juice in the grapefruit from vines will have naturally been coming out as alcohol!