It is always easy to pass erroneouse judgements when one is devoid of all the facts of a matter.

When Yahweh abandoned Eve in the garden of eden, and Eve started applying the counsel of Satan, all of her offspring hence have been under the rulership of satan, just as all of her offspring would have been under the rulership of Yahweh had she listen to the voince of Yahweh and obeyed it. That failue led to the abandonment of Eve and her subsequent children.

Ever since, all mankind except few, have been under the control of satan, and they all in there respective part of the world have evolve ways of worship as directed by the ruler of the world satan, though through the priest of those nations.

However, man still dies, and certain men tried to be faultless and practice rigtheouse and hence Yahweh related with such men and made promises that would eventual re-reconcile man in general back to Yahweh,

pending that reconciliation, all nations kept on walking in there usual standard as allowed by the current rular satan.

Such ^^ led to this promise to Abraham Below:


"by means of your seed, all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because you have obeyed my voice."
(Genesis 22:18).
............................................................................................. While that ^^^ promised of all nation benefiting themself is pending till the 'seed' arrives, the rules of engagement remains the same, showing how capable satan is and his rulership will be used as a basis to Judge him and to compare with the rulership by Yahweh that Eve rejected.

While the nation to produce the seed is growing, certain consideration were made to the sons of Israel that have learned certain traits from the neighbours around them and the experiences they got from Egypt, and their hard heartedness, and moses let them have it as long as it does not twart the altimate goal of producing the messiah that will "set matters streight".

See this allowances made to the Israelites here :

"They say unto him(Jesus), Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts Allowed you to put away your wives:
but from the beginning it was not so. " (Matthew 19:7-.
.............................................................................................. Now, that ^ allowance was not part of Yahwehs plans, but the Jews wanted it since other nations does it, for their sturbonness, Moses let them have it, same with having slave, it was an existing norms and the seed has not come yet to correct all the errors that the ruler(satan) has introduce to mankind(exploitation) under his watch.

When the messaiah comes and reconciles all men back to Yahweh, we will have this :


"And it shall come to pass
in the last days,
that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and
all nations
shall go unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob;
and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law,
and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall set matters streight respecting many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. " (Isaiah 2:2-5).
.............................................................................
"That ^ in the final part of the days".

pending that ^^^ period, it is an error to input blames on Yahweh. The primary purpose of the nation of Israel was to produce the Messiah. The messiah came and gave the way forward.

Logicboy03:



I like your christ but not your christians

I don't like any of them. Their christ (if it was real) had the power to abolish slavery. With only a few words could have saved the millions of lives lost, millions of families ruined, many cultures destroyed. Instead the did some random magic tricks, had a ritual human sacrifice, then went home to his perfect heaven and watched the savage, evil, disgusting brutaility continue. Shame on him!

NoProphecy:

I don't like any of them. Their christ (if it was real) had the power to abolish slavery. With only a few words could have saved the millions of lives lost, millions of families ruined, many cultures destroyed. Instead the did some random magic tricks, had a ritual human sacrifice, then went home to his perfect heaven and watched the savage, evil, disgusting brutaility continue. Shame on him!

Gbam.....I was just using a common quote

Christ flogged merchants and destroyed their private property- people forget that he could be a bad guy too

you in particular seem to interest me with what you posted below, you know too much about the "Errors" of Yahweh.
I want you in particular to educate my ignorance about Yahweh. Considering this your post that is:

(you had said this to someone else)

macof: josh you are really foolish, I thought you were just a mislead and slaved African, I never realized you are dumb and ur brain works like that of a sheep.

honestly well reading ur comments I got so angry I could punch u if you were in my presence, what kind idiot are u?

You read that op and still can't realize the stupidity behind christianity and the evil of Yahweh.

I pity ur soul, because foolish as forever been imprinted on it.

very interesting. So, come on, educate and clear my ignorance about Yahweh, then you can proceed to "puch" me for my foolishness, am waiting. Thank you.

loveroftruth: It is always easy to pass erroneouse judgements when one is devoid of all the facts of a matter.

When Yahweh abandoned Eve in the garden of eden, and Eve started applying the counsel of Satan, all of her offspring hence have been under the rulership of satan, just as all of her offspring would have been under the rulership of Yahweh had she listen to the voince of Yahweh and obeyed it. That failue led to the abandonment of Eve and her subsequent children.

Ever since, all mankind except few, have been under the control of satan, and they all in there respective part of the world have evolve ways of worship as directed by the ruler of the world satan, though through the priest of those nations.

However, man still dies, and certain men tried to be faultless and practice rigtheouse and hence Yahweh related with such men and made promises that would eventual re-reconcile man in general back to Yahweh,

pending that reconciliation, all nations kept on walking in there usual standard as allowed by the current rular satan.

Such ^^ led to this promise to Abraham Below:


"by means of your seed, all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because you have obeyed my voice."
(Genesis 22:18).
............................................................................................. While that promise of all nation benefiting themself is pending till the 'seed' arrives, the rules of engagement remains the same, showing how capable satan is and his rulership will be used as a basis to Judge him and to compare with the rulership by Yahweh that Eve rejected.

While the nation to produce the seed is growing, certain consideration were made to the sons of Israel that have learned certain traits from the neighbours around them and the experiences they got from Egypt, and their hard heartedness, and moses let them have it as long as it does not twart the altimate goal of producing the messiah that will "set matters streight".

See this allowances made to the Israelites here :

"They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts Allowed you to put away your wives:
but from the beginning it was not so. " (Matthew 19:7-.
.............................................................................................. Now, that ^ allowance was not part of Yahwehs plans, but the Jews wanted it since other nations does it, for their sturbonness, Moses let them have it, same with having slave, it was an existing norms and the seed has not come yet to correct all the errors that the ruler(satan) has introduce to mankind(exploitation) under his watch.

When the messaiah comes and reconciles all men back to Yahweh, we will have this :


"And it shall come to pass
in the last days,
that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and
all nations
shall go unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob;
and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law,
and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall set matters streight respecting many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. " (Isaiah 2:2-5).
.............................................................................
"That ^ in the final part of the days".

pending that ^^^ period, it is an error to input blames on Yahweh. The primary purpose of the nation of Israel was to produce the Messiah. The messiah came and gave the way forward.

by means of your seed, all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because you have obeyed my voice.

Logicboy03:


Gbam.....I was just using a common quote

Christ flogged merchants and destroyed their private property- people forget that he could be a bad guy too

Or just tragically human.

mazaje:

Joshthefirst PLEASE I BEG you learn to use your brain when engaging others, I disagree with many of the things that were written in the post above but it makes some sense at least, it accepts responsibility and states things they way there are before giving the christian theological explanation. . . learn to argue like this and stop spewing thrash like a senseless sheep. . . .

I'm not going to mince words when talking to you and deny the fact of what the bible implies just to soothe your ego. Nonsense. The question asked by Kay17 debunks what he said.

Kay 17:
@josh Bondservants are uniquely of English Law. Bondservants is rigidly formed by a bond/deed with the peculiar characteristics. I strongly doubt if the ancient Israelites and their neighbours used deeds in the first place!

Ma'am.
Slaves were even counted as part of the household then:

Genesis 17:27 along with all the other men and boys of the household, whether they were born there or bought as servants. All were circumcised with him.

They were bought as servants, and they were even allowed to buy their freedom if they wanted. God did not allow them to be brutalized. Why would he cordone the same thing he judged egypt for?

They could even be married to the sons of the household.

I'm not advocating slavery now, especially in its modern sense ma'am. I'm only saying that in those days it was normal and general practice and brutalization was not allowed by God, who claimed to defend the defenseless.

All these atheists are doing ma'am, is trying to debunk God and claim he's unjust and immoral because they don't want to answer to him morally on judgement day, seeing they are morally convicted of their sins, they do everything to debunk God and make themselves feel good from claiming he does not exist to claiming he's unjust and immoral so they won't answer to him.

This does not change any fact.

If any of them gives me an example of brutalization of slaves by the israelis in the bible and God not caring, then they will have a basis for their claims. For now, its speculative hogwash stemming from hatred of God.

Joshthefirst: I'm not going to mince words when talking to you and deny the fact of what the bible implies just to soothe your ego. Nonsense. The question asked by Kay17 debunks what he said.



Ma'am.
Slaves were even counted as part of the household then:

Genesis 17:27 along with all the other men and boys of the household, whether they were born there or bought as servants. All were circumcised with him.

They were bought as servants, and they were even allowed to buy their freedom if they wanted. God did not allow them to be brutalized. Why would he cordone the same thing he judged egypt for?

They could even be married to the sons of the household.

I'm not advocating slavery now, especially in its modern sense ma'am. I'm only saying that in those days it was normal and general practice and brutalization was not allowed by God, who claimed to defend the defenseless.

All these atheists are doing ma'am, is trying to debunk God and claim he's unjust and immoral because they don't want to answer to him morally on judgement day, seeing they are morally convicted of their sins, they do everything to debunk God and make themselves feel good from claiming he does not exist to claiming he's unjust and immoral so they won't answer to him.

This does not change any fact.

If any of them gives me an example of brutalization of slaves by the israelis in the bible and God not caring, then they will have a basis for their claims. For now, its speculative hogwash stemming from hatred of God.

Good lord....this is madness

Joshthefirst: I'm not going to mince words when talking to you and deny the fact of what the bible implies just to soothe your ego. Nonsense. The question asked by Kay17 debunks what he said.



Ma'am.
Slaves were even counted as part of the household then:

Genesis 17:27 along with all the other men and boys of the household, whether they were born there or bought as servants. All were circumcised with him.

They were bought as servants, and they were even allowed to buy their freedom if they wanted. God did not allow them to be brutalized. Why would he cordone the same thing he judged egypt for?

They could even be married to the sons of the household.

I'm not advocating slavery now, especially in its modern sense ma'am. I'm only saying that in those days it was normal and general practice and brutalization was not allowed by God, who claimed to defend the defenseless.

All these atheists are doing ma'am, is trying to debunk God and claim he's unjust and immoral because they don't want to answer to him morally on judgement day, seeing they are morally convicted of their sins, they do everything to debunk God and make themselves feel good from claiming he does not exist to claiming he's unjust and immoral so they won't answer to him.

This does not change any fact.

If any of them gives me an example of brutalization of slaves by the israelis in the bible and God not caring, then they will have a basis for their claims. For now, its speculative hogwash stemming from hatred of God.

I don't know what is more disgusting: The wicked, evil, immoral, barbaric book of nonsense written by primitive, land-grabbing, desert savages or your pathetic attempt to justify it. I vomit for you.

NoProphecy:

I don't know what is more disgusting: The wicked, evil, immoral, barbaric book of nonsense written by primitive, land-grabbing, desert savages or your pathetic attempt to justify it. I vomit for you.

as I said in my post, men trying to blame God for immorality because they think if they can succeed in terming him as immoral they'll escape the punishment for their own immoral deeds.
Epic case of ostrich burying head in the sand and thinking others cannot see him because he does not see them.

debosky: SMH. . . .y'all should go argue with your mates instead of picking on Josh. He clearly doesn't know how your crew operates hence his stumbling into your traps.

Slavery was acceptable to God in the OT - there's little or no reason to consider otherwise. However, the question is whether this was a 'situational' acceptance (based on prevailing circumstances) or universal acceptance. That question has not been addressed here.

Slavery is bad in whatever guise, brutal or otherwise - subjugating another human being isn't acceptable even if you treat them 'nicely'.

What I'll say is this - for a time only Israelites could legitimately worship God, eventually all can if they accept Jesus. I believe a similar principle applies to slavery - for some time it was acceptable, but not eventually has become unacceptable since all can now worship Christ - therefore there is no more division between 'foreigners' and 'Jews' - all are acceptable to God.

false.
The world has been worshipping God legitimately before Jesus showed his ugly face.

the ancient Yoruba have been in a relationship with God before the Jews even started taking about a Messiah.

Stop being a foolish slave, the Jews don't even know God, Moses made up their God.

It's because of these useless Abrahamics that some people think there isn't a God, because they he is the way the Bible portrays him.

And note that Israel doesn't believe in Jesus.
And interesting question: if the Jews don't believe Jesus, why should non-Jews Slave themselves to Jews in the name of a Jewish criminal

loveroftruth: you in particular seem to interest me with what you posted below, you know too much about the "Errors" of Yahweh.
I want you in particular to educate my ignorance about Yahweh. Considering this your post that is:

(you had said this to someone else)


very interesting. So, come on, educate and clear my ignorance about Yahweh, then you can proceed to "puch" me for my foolishness, am waiting. Thank you.

by means of your seed, all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because you have obeyed my voice.

You are deceiving urself.

Yahweh is for the Jews.
Olodumare is for the universe, and he manifest in all nations.

I(Yorubas) don't need Yahweh, we have our own God, who is well able.
So Abraham can go eat his seed

Joshthefirst: as I said in my post, men trying to blame God for immorality because they think if they can succeed in terming him as immoral they'll escape the punishment for their own immoral deeds.
Epic case of ostrich burying head in the sand and thinking others cannot see him because he does not see them.

If your god wants to punish me for pointing out the he has no concern for human freedom and well being, then bring it on. In my "heart" I have no respect for any ignorant, evil, self-centered, bloodthirsty tyrant. I never will.

Morality that is completely detached from human freedom, suffering and well being, is BS.

.

macof:


You are deceiving urself.

Young man, i had expected that you will say more than this retort up there.

Does not your god have a message for you to give to others ?

Does he not have an agenda of everlasting purposed and benefit?

macof:

Yahweh is for the Jews.

Yahweh said he is the almighty God and went ahead to demonstrate it by over-powering all canaanites gods, those demons you follow does not have much to offer you . Yahweh on the other hand is promising eternal life to all human that streightens their ways and leave immoral lives behind, which is better and beneficial for them.
In Yahweh's new world, the lifestyle is what he is asking people to start practicing now to qualify for the new system.

What is the purpose of your god ? Can he give eternal life ?

macof:

Olodumare is for the universe, and he manifest in all nations.

Yeah, satan the bible say is the ruler of this world, that was what he got from deceiving Adam, our first perent and he wanted to use the same trick against Jesus, the promise seed as to get him to obey him by those temptations.


Have you ever wondered who would have been greater than Adam had satan not deceived him ? No one, that position of Adam is what satan collected when Adam Obeyed him and made himself subservient to satan and satan became the ruler of this world. But his time is short, that Jesus he wanted to deceived has been empowered to finish him in the near future, and when that happends, he satan cannot help himself let alone you.

macof:

I(Yorubas) don't need Yahweh, we have our own God, who is well able.

so the canaanites had there own gods "who is well able" till Yahweh chased them all away.

Those demons that the canaanites where worshiping are all the same in traditional religion. Take note.

Unless you will tell me the Egyptian god was not "well able". Pharoe said he did not know Yahweh which is true.
That did not stop Yahweh from being who he is.

macof:

So Abraham can go eat his seed

well, i am very much ashamed of you, you are a big disgrace to your gods, i had asked you to come tell me the "errors" Yahweh made and you came here with empty words without substance, your words lack easy punch sef let alone you can punch someone.

If Yahweh was to follow the mouth of you and your gods, he will not only had chased them out but prevent gentiles/pegans that worshiped them from coming to know him the almighty God, but then, he is the father of all, hevent made himself known by his dealing with the Israelites and defeating all other pegan gods, he still wants to help you all and all to flee from satan's deceits that he started in Eden, if you dont, well and good for you, but you have been told.

@macof

"But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils." (1 Corinthians 10:20).

Take note of that ^.

Logicboy03: It seems Joshthefirst is gunning for an award


-highest number of foolish posts per username.


gaddem

LMAO

@TOPIC i see a lot of self slaying going on in this thread.
but i wont even call 'em out.

Chokl8:

LMAO

@TOPIC i see a lot of self slaying going on in this thread.
but i wont even call 'em out.

Kails, is that you?

Kay 17:

We should be able to enslave atheists, since they willingly refuse to worship any deity; they don't constitute "the everybody that worships God now"

No - atheists can worship God if they choose to. Therefore they are not precluded on the basis of their nationality as foreigners were in the OT.

macof:
false.

What aspect of my post do you consider false? Kindly point it out and let's discuss it.

If you want to discuss the 'validity' of the biblical description of God, that will require a separate thread.

debosky:

What aspect of my post do you consider false? Kindly point it out and let's discuss it.

If you want to discuss the 'validity' of the biblical description of God, that will require a separate thread.

I stated it in my post re-read

loveroftruth: @macof

"But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils." (1 Corinthians 10:20).

Take note of that ^.

have you ever gone to Israel?
go there and see Jews sacrificing "burnt offerings".

why is it that you believe foreigners more than your own people?

loveroftruth:

Young man, i had expected that you will say more than this retort up there.

Does not your god have a message for you to give to others ?

Does he not have an agenda of everlasting purposed and benefit?




Yahweh said he is the almighty God and went ahead to demonstrate it by over-powering all canaanites gods, those demons you follow does not have much to offer you . Yahweh on the other hand is promising eternal life to all human that streightens their ways and leave immoral lives behind, which is better and beneficial for them.
In Yahweh's new world, the lifestyle is what he is asking people to start practicing now to qualify for the new system.

What is the purpose of your god ? Can he give eternal life ?


Yeah, satan the bible say is the ruler of this world, that was what he got from deceiving Adam, our first perent and he wanted to use the same trick against Jesus, the promise seed as to get him to obey him by those temptations.


Have you ever wondered who would have been greater than Adam had satan not deceived him ? No one, that position of Adam is what satan collected when Adam Obeyed him and made himself subservient to satan and satan became the ruler of this world. But his time is short, that Jesus he wanted to deceived has been empowered to finish him in the near future, and when that happends, he satan cannot help himself let alone you.



so the canaanites had there own gods "who is well able" till Yahweh chased them all away.

Those demons that the canaanites where worshiping are all the same in traditional religion. Take note.

Unless you will tell me the Egyptian god was not "well able". Pharoe said he did not know Yahweh which is true.
That did not stop Yahweh from being who he is.



well, i am very much ashamed of you, you are a big disgrace to your gods, i Ihad asked you to come tell me the "errors" Yahweh made and you came here with empty words without substance, your words lack easy punch sef let alone you can punch someone.

If Yahweh was to follow the mouth of you and your gods, he will not only had chased them out but prevent gentiles/pegans that worshiped them from coming to know him the almighty God, but then, he is the father of all, hevent made himself known by his dealing with the Israelites and defeating all other pegan gods, he still wants to help you all and all to flee from satan's deceits that he started in Eden, if you dont, well and good for you, but you have been told.

My gods are watching over the universe, they watch over you even if you don't know it.

Yahweh was made through the imagination of Moses, the canaanites practiced Semitism, which the Jews also practiced before Moses modified it to judaism for Israel.

Olodumare created everyone to live forever. This world/our human life is only a journey.

Satan is not the ruler of this world, Humans are. And Adam is not the first man; no one knows the first generation of humans on earth.


Yahweh never chased any semitic God away, the Jews just changed their system of worship.


you sound as if the jazz the Jews did against kemet was anything compared to wat they suffered in the hands of the Kemetians.

I would like to ask you few questions

1.did your ancestors not serve God?

2. Did your ancestors commit more evil than the Jews?

3. how is God described in the religion of your ancestors

.

.

macof:

My gods are watching over the universe, they watch over you even if you don't know it.

Dont you know you need to show evidence for such claims ?

Can a universal ruler be a local champion ?
Cant you see the way Yahweh and his antecedence is spreading all over the world and his messenger Jesus defines history ? (CE and AD). Shine your eye! Your god is not the real deal, Yahweh have an objective and he is unstopable.
See the bible is the greatest books of all time, the book of Yahweh.

macof:

Yahweh was made through the imagination of Moses,

How can that such ^ be true ?
Do you have comprehension problem ?

Can the slaves from Egypt be able to produced those 613 laws of which most of it forms the bedrock of modern justice system of most countries accross the world ?

Why would those slaves and moses produced a law that they themselves strugled to keep ?

Try and be rational if you wish to discussed with me.

macof:

the canaanites practiced Semitism, which the Jews also practiced before Moses modified it to judaism for Israel.

Modified what ? Most of those laws are unique among Jews to this day, eg, the none taking of blood, which cultures had such laws ?

macof:
Olodumare created everyone to live forever.

Evidence please.

macof:

This world/our human life is only a journey.

why not become an Eckist sef. Or Amorc, you all have something in common, and try other nations and see if those pegans have something different other than the lie that satan told Eve that she will not die, To keep you all in perpetual deceived mode.

Yahweh is offering real life eternal in this world and not an imaginary world that none of you wish to Go, not the world that you all cry when someone "goes" there, death(lies).

macof:
Satan is not the ruler of this world, Humans are.

Say that ^ to those that are ignorant.

macof:
And Adam is not the first man; no one knows the first generation of humans on earth.

How will you know what you dont know and your God did not keep evidence.

macof:
Yahweh never chased any semitic God away, the Jews just changed their system of worship.

That ^ is in your head.

macof:
1.did your ancestors not serve God?

2. Did your ancestors commit more evil than the Jews?

3. how is God described in the religion of your ancestors

Those ^ are your interest, not mine. i cant see any hope of life eternal from those except the lie that our ancestors are around, and that we should worship them

macof:

I stated it in my post re-read

Your post is not related to the issue of slavery. If you dispute the 'Hebrew' God as you describe it, that is a separate issue altogether.

debosky:

Your post is not related to the issue of slavery. If you dispute the 'Hebrew' God as you describe it, that is a separate issue altogether.

I don't dispute the Hebrew God "El", it's the God of the modified religions of judaism and christianity I dispute.

macof:

I don't dispute the Hebrew God "El", it's the God of the modified religions of judaism and christianity I dispute.

Is Olodumare a dirtbag god who condones the enslavement of human beings?

macof:

I don't dispute the Hebrew God "El", it's the God of the modified religions of judaism and christianity I dispute.

Okay. So again I ask, what is false about what I posted? What aspect of my description of how slavery is treated do you regard as false?

It is amazing how a person can be so foolish and blind to reason. josh is a perfect example of how religion deadens your common sense. Josh will never have sense. Its a real pity.

debosky:

Okay. So again I ask, what is false about what I posted? What aspect of my description of how slavery is treated do you regard as false?

the bolded is what I regard as false

debosky: SMH. . . .y'all should go argue with your mates instead of picking on Josh. He clearly doesn't know how your crew operates hence his stumbling into your traps.

Slavery was acceptable to God in the OT - there's little or no reason to consider otherwise. However, the question is whether this was a 'situational' acceptance (based on prevailing circumstances) or universal acceptance. That question has not been addressed here.

Slavery is bad in whatever guise, brutal or otherwise - subjugating another human being isn't acceptable even if you treat them 'nicely'.

What I'll say is this - for a time only Israelites could legitimately worship God, eventually all can if they accept Jesus. I believe a similar principle applies to slavery - for some time it was acceptable, but not eventually has become unacceptable since all can now worship Christ - therefore there is no more division between 'foreigners' and 'Jews' - all are acceptable to God.

It was never only israel that could legitimately worship God.
Ancient Yoruba had their way of honoring God but we didnt consider non-yoruba to be anti-God, or demon worshippers yet we didnt use our own as slaves.

its like that everywhere, People dont use their own people as slaves.

NoProphecy:

Is Olodumare a dirtbag god who condones the enslavement of human beings?

Olodumare doesnt condone slavery, All humans are equal in his presence and doesnt indulge in discrimination.