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Did JEPHTHAH Offer His Daughter As A Burnt Offering? / Jephthah Did Not Kill His Daughter As Sacrifice To God. / Did Jephthah Offered His Daughter As A Burnt Offering Unto The Lord? (2) (3) (4)
Jephthah's Daughter by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:52pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
Jephthah's Daughter October 24, 2013 "Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’S and I will offer it up for a burnt offering" (Judges 11:31) The story of Jephthah has been a stumbling block to many who interprete it as teaching that Jephthah sacrificed his daughter to God as a burnt offering. As Jephthah was preparing to face the Ammonite armies, he had made the vow recorded in our text, if God would only give him the victory. His only child-a beloved daughter-was then first to meet him at his return, and so it was she who had to be offered. It should be remembered, however, that Jephthah was a man of true faith (Hebrews 11:32,33), and he would never have vowed to disobey God's prohibition against human sacrifice. The problem is that the Hebrew conjunction waw (translated "and" in our text) is very flexible in meaning depending on context. Here, "or" is better than "and." That is, Jephthah vowed that whatever first came out to meet him would be dedicated to the Lord: if a person came out (Jepthah was probably thinking of a servant), he or she would be dedicated to God's service at the tabernacle, as Hannah later dedicated Samuel (1 Samuel 1:11). Or, if an animal from his flock came out, it would be sacrificed. His daughter, out of love for her father and gratitude to God for His deliverance from the Ammonites, insisted that her father keep his vow. Since that meant that she, as a perpetual servant at the tabernacle, could never have a husband and children, she "bewailed her virginity" for two months (not her impending death) and then "returned to her father," so that he could keep his vow, and throughout her life, "she knew no man" (Judges 11:38,39). Instead of a strange tale of human sacrifice, this is the story of the love of a God-fearing father and daughter for each other and for their Lord. HMM For more . . . . 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by EvilBrain1(m): 4:26pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
There you go again copying and pasting from nonsense sites like answersingenesis and refusing to use your own brain. The bible is very clear and completely unambiguous that Jepthah sacrificed his daughter by burning her. That you didn't quote the two verses that show this is evidence of how dishonest you and the apologetic hack that originally wrote that post is. For the sake of those who are willing to think instead of just swallowing what they are told, I'm going th post the relevant passage below. From Judges chapter 11: " 9 Then the Spirit of the LORD came on Jephthah. He crossed Gilead and Manasseh, passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from there he advanced against the Ammonites. 30 And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD: “If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.” 32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the LORD gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon. 34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, “Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the LORD that I cannot break.” 36 “My father,” she replied, “you have given your word to the LORD. Do to me just as you promised, now that the LORD has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. 37 But grant me this one request,” she said. “Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry.” 38 “You may go,” he said. And he let her go for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. 39 After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin. From this comes the Israelite tradition 40 that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite." |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:22pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
Evil Brain: Evil Brain, you cannot think crooked and walk straight. 2 Likes |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by mazaje(m): 6:50pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
Obviously liars like Oladegbuu will never accept what is written in black and white. . . From the bible. . . . Judges11:39 After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. What was his vow. . . Judges 11:30 And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD: “If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.” Tear that part off your bible if you don't like it instead of lying to yourself as you do all the time. . . |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by EvilBrain1(m): 9:16pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
OLAADEGBU: What the hell does that have to do with the subject of the thread? Now please explain to us why you are deceiving people by twisting the meaning of the scriptures to fit your own purposes. Why are you telling bare-faced lies? When you've finished explaining that, you can feel free to open another thread about by username and it's effects on my gait. |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Kabieosi: 9:17pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
Evil Brain: mazaje: @Evil Brain @mazaje Evil Brain on this subject matter, again. SMH Slowly read Judges 11:31 because I am hoping you will spot and detect the dichotomy in the verse Then it shall be, that whatsoever comes forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. - Judges 11:31 Jephthah made was a coded or as it were a pregnant or loaded vow #1: "whatsoever comes forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S" #2: "and I will offer it up for a burnt offering." It is like this: Referring to #1: Whatsoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me shall surely be the LORD'S (i.e. dedicated or vowed to God) Referring to #2: Better still, if it happens to be an IT (i.e. an animal and not a human being) then I will offer IT, the animal up for a burnt offering as a bonus. Father and daughter knew the fate of the daughter is now a lifetime of celibacy and dedication to God (i.e. as per #1) Please do not hit under the belt with "it" is used for a human being (i.e. please recognise and understand that the "it" in the verse is referring to an animal and not a human being or Jephthah's daughter) 1 Like |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Kabieosi: 9:20pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
@Evil Brain @mazaje "she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel" - Judges 11:39 I hope you both noticed the punctuation mark ( : ) in the above verse and what followed after it (i.e. the immediate five words after and ending with the custom sentence) Go figure? 1 Like |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by mazaje(m): 9:33pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
Kabieosi: @Evil Brain @mazaje What is this man up about?. . .Why are you telling lies without shame?. . .The custom was talking about the custom that became after her, why didn't you put it in full?. . .We all have bibles and can read from it too. . .She knew no man means she died a virgin, his vow was to sacrifice what ever comes out of his house as a burnt offering and he did according to his vow end of story. . . |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by mazaje(m): 9:38pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
Kabieosi: It can be used for human beings you shameless liar, you do not know or understand the english language better than us at all. . .carry your lies to some where else. . .Let me give you a simple example. .Your baby is very cute, i feel like stealing it. . .Here I just gave you simple example where it is used for humans. . In the case of Jephthah he used it to generalize, since he knew that anything could come out from his servants, animals etc . . .He said what ever comes out of my house to meet me. . .He knows people can come out to meet him and his pets as well. . So your apologetics is just pathetic. . . .take your lies somewhere else pls. . . |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by EvilBrain1(m): 9:40pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
Kabieosi: Semantics. First of all, the grammatical distinction between he, she and it does not eexist in the original Hebrew. Jepthah wasn't speaking queen's English. Secondly, even if he was speaking English, he clearly didn't know whether what would meet him first would have been a man, woman, child or goat so he (or rather, the translators) would, of neccesity, have used the gender-neutral pronoun, it. (Just to remind you again, he wasn't speaking English). Third, he clearly vowed that he would give whatever came out as a burnt offering. And it clearly states that he did to his daughter as he vowed, therefore he burnt her. There is no wriggle room for you here, it's written plainly in black and white. You can read it slowly if you like, you can read it backwards if you want, it's still going to say he burnt her. Third, there were no convents nuns in that time. Neither the Torah nor Jewish customs, nor the customs of the peoples in that area at that time contain anything of the sort. The idea of a nubile young woman refusing to marry for religious or any other reason would have been laughable in those barbarous times. Such a woman would have been seen as a whöre and nothing else. Your bullshít celibacy hypothesis is bullshít. If you were a real Christian, you'd accept everything the bible says without question instead of twisting it to fit your preconceived ideas about whether burning young women as sacrifices is wrong. *Edited for clarity. |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Kabieosi: 9:45pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
mazaje: mazaje: @mazaje In the case of Jephthah he used it to generalize? - ROTFL Yeah right - ROTFL x2 I'll call you IT from now on It doesnt know what IT is talking about It (i.e. Mazaje) wants to murder grammar Two peas in a pod - Evil Brain and It I knew you'd hit under the belt with "it" is used for a human being which is why I first warned you both against it |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by mazaje(m): 10:04pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
Kabieosi: You are just giving you opinion which is false. . .The story was not written in English but in Hebrew, you do not know its true meaning. .even if we are to go with the english language "it" is used for humans as well. . .I gave you a perfect example, in the case of Jephthah he used it to generalize, since he knew that anything could come out from his servants, animals. . .It can be used for humans as well. . .Stop telling lies for Jesus. . .if you don't like what is written in your bible tear it off. . . |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by mazaje(m): 10:11pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
Here is a Jewish scholars post on the sacrifice of Jephthah. . .This is some one that knows Hebrew very well. . . The first is an issue of lexical semantics. In his vow, Jephthah promises a burnt offering (Hebrew, ‘olah). In the nearly 300 occurrences of this word in the OT it is always a sacrifice that is wholly burned on the altar. The first point is simple then—to suggest that this word has a unique and different meaning here is special pleading. The text says what it says, however disturbing that may be. The second issue occurs earlier in the vow when Jephthah indicates that he will sacrifice "whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph" (NIV). What scenarios does Jephthah imagine here? While it is true that the Israelite four room house could accommodate animals, animals do not go out to meet someone. Dogs were not kept in houses, were not generally kept as pets and were unsuitable for sacrifice. Cows, goats and sheep do not come forth to meet someone. Furthermore, a simple animal sacrifice would not be appropriate for the extent and significance of the victory Jephthah has achieved. Returning champions were commonly greeted by a procession from the town to welcome them home. If we inquire about the Hebrew word translated "whatever" we will find that this is a translator’s interpretation. The Hebrew text has a participle, a word that could be stretched out as "the one who comes forth." It would be highly unlikely that Jephthah would use this form with the meaning "the thing that comes forth." It can therefore be concluded that Jephthah is anticipating a human sacrifice. If his expectation is clear and the intended action is clear, the text leaves us no legitimate alternatives. Why then did God allow Jephthah to have the victory if such was the Judge’s intention? The spirit empowered him to bring deliverance for Israel, and that was what God’s plan was. God need not indulge the foolishness of individuals at the expense of his plan for his people. John H. Walton (PhD, Hebrew Union College) teaches Old Testament at Wheaton College - See more at: http://www.koinoniablog.net/2008/12/hebrew-corner-16.html#sthash.5UYbKqJX.dpuf |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Joshthefirst(m): 10:58pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
Smh. Why would the same God who forbade human sacrifices accept it? |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Kabieosi: 11:18pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
mazaje: @mazaje I am still referring you back to the punctuation; : (i.e. colon) Go and find out the implications of the following punctuations too: bicolons and tricolons The only human sacrifice God ever accepted was that of a sinless Man |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Kay17: 11:33pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
Kabieosi: @Evil Brain @mazaje It is sooo clear. Evil Brain especially went through lengths reproducing the verses and connecting the dots carefully. The vow is to offer whatever (includes the unexpected regardless of value) and to crown it up, Jephtah never expected a human to be the first fto greet him. And he definitely did not plan to use the intended livestock either as a nun nor a monk! I understand Christians try to put a purposive interpretation to an otherwise shocking tale, however where it is clear to all, there is nothing to be do. Besides Jephtah never had a good reputation. |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Kay17: 11:35pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
Kabieosi: A sacrifice is a token offering to appease God. Funny enough there is a long trail of human sacrifice in the Bible. Agag. Extermination of a population at a given city under direct commmands from God. |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by AlfaSeltzer(m): 11:42pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
This thread has just confused me. I was sure that she was used as a sallah ram but after reading that chapter again now, I have my doubts. This is because of the ending parts of the chapter where it insisted on her virginity instead of her death. They cried because she would stay a virgin and never have children. This got me thinking: if somebody was going to be killed and burnt, the last thing that will worry her and her friends will be sex. But then, maybe human sacrifice was so rampant and accepted in those days that it didn't bother them. I have to research this. |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Kabieosi: 11:55pm On Oct 24, 2013 |
@Alfa Seltzer You have a good observation Alfa, It was rampart and commonly practised by the pagan nations but God didn't want anything to do with the sort |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Nobody: 4:19am On Oct 25, 2013 |
Kabieosi: God didn't want anything to do with the sortThe virgin part nailed the coffin.Let mockers and scoffers beware that God is never interested in human sacrifice.The only guy i know of that is interested in female virgin sacrifices is satan.Pagans do that,they sacrifice to their molech gods.The God of Israel hates [size=16pt]human[/size] sacrifices. |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by ayoku777(m): 5:39am On Oct 25, 2013 |
This is a footnote commentary from my Amplified bible.
Scripture is not explicit on whether Jepthah sacrificed her as a burnt offering or not. Personally, i think he didn't, coz the daughter mourned her virginity, not her life (judges 11v38) But if Jepthah ended up sacrificing her as a burnt offering, it would be out of his pious but uninformed conscience. Coz during that era in Israel people did what was right in their eyes coz there was a partial breakdown of the priesthood and no administration, as it were. Judges 25v25 says "In those days, there was no king in Israel, every man did what was right in his own eyes" (not God's eyes) So which ever side of the story is true. God was never the reason it happened. Infact God would have given Jephtah the victory without the vow. |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Kay17: 6:17am On Oct 25, 2013 |
God does accept human sacrifice except if the quality of the sacrifice is questionable. |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by EvilBrain1(m): 9:45am On Oct 25, 2013 |
ayoku777: This is a footnote commentary from my Amplified bible. Modern bible scholars are notoriously eager to twist the facts to fit their purposes. The truth is that the unanimous interpretation od this passage among the Jews and early Christians was that Jepthah burnt his daughter. It's only recently that modern apologetics have felt the need to try and paper over the crazier parts of the bible. Unfortunately for them, we all have bibles and we all know how to read. It's only sheep like Olaadegbu refuse to use their brains and think independently that can read an obvious passage like this and claim the the girl wasn't burnt. Sadly, for some people, the truth is less important than defending their world view against all odds. |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by mazaje(m): 10:04am On Oct 25, 2013 |
The interpretation that his daughter wasn't sacrificed began only recently by modern scholars. . . |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Nobody: 11:01am On Oct 25, 2013 |
mazaje: The interpretation that his daughter wasn't sacrificed began only recently by modern scholars. . . Please ask yourself this question, when it comes to Bible Verse Translation, who would you begin with.. the Hebrew Manuscripts, Greeks, Romans or Early Othordox Christians.. I would place my bet with the original scribes.. the Jews.. and according to the Jews.. Jepthah "SACRIFICED" his daughter for Military Success. Plain and Simple.. It is a wonder that the Jews have no problem with this but Christians do.. They (@Ola and his ilk) Justify and Defend this act when the original Hebrew Text clearly states that this dude Sacrificed his Daughter for Military Success.. why can't Christians Accept this. WHY! |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Kabieosi: 12:20pm On Oct 25, 2013 |
mazaje: voltron: @^^^ Because of the below verse with the punctuation : or colon which NIV flagrantly disregarded and others choose to omit "she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel" - Judges 11:39 I hope you ALL did notice the punctuation mark (i.e. : or colon) in the above verse and what followed after it (i.e. the immediate five words after and ending with the custom sentence) - It was a coded vow |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Kay17: 12:43pm On Oct 25, 2013 |
Kabieosi: Words carry their self evident meaning, and accordingly Evil Brain especially, conveyed everyone's thoughts as to what Jepthatjh's vow meant. And I doubt if semi colons function to alter the natural meanings of words! The meaning of the words remain. As to the sentence "she knew no man", I t means she was unmarried, childless, virgin. And that she would never be a complete woman (for her lack of children resulting from premature death). |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Kabieosi: 12:54pm On Oct 25, 2013 |
Kay 17: @Kay 17 "she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel" - Judges 11:39 So what became the custom then, after that? Was it "she knew no man" or others following suit sacrificing their daughters too? |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Kay17: 12:58pm On Oct 25, 2013 |
You mean Custom to remember her memory just like Valentine's Day?! |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by AlfaSeltzer(m): 12:58pm On Oct 25, 2013 |
Kabieosi: This: 40 That the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year. |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by AlfaSeltzer(m): 1:02pm On Oct 25, 2013 |
I want agree that she wasn't burnt BUT my problem is this: What exactly did her father do to her then? Seal her vagina? |
Re: Jephthah's Daughter by Kabieosi: 1:21pm On Oct 25, 2013 |
Alfa Seltzer: Gotcha Lament the denial, yep He didnt have to seal anything, the daughter was willing to abide . . . That is the message |
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