1. Mace windu and Luke and  and Darth Vader Tulak Hord
2.Darth maul
3.Darth Sidious and Yoda 
4. Count Dooku and kar vastor
5.Aenon Jurtis and Obi one and Depa Billaba
6.Qui gon Jinn
7.General Grieveious
The most powerful force users are
1.Yoda and Darth Plagueis and darth Vader and Kar Vastor
2.Darth sidious
3.Count Dooku and Luke
4.Mace Windu
5.Obi-One

Darth Vader is an amazing user of the saber, am not all that impressed with darth sidious. But Master Yoda is amazing to watch without leaving out the one and only obi wan kanobi

The most powerful lightsaber user
1. Luke (He defeated Vader)
2.Mace windu and Darth Vader Tulak Hord and General Grieveious and Count Dooku and  Darthmaul
3. Darth Sidious and Yoda (tie)
4. kar vastor Obi one and Depa Billaba
5.Aenon Jurtis and Sora Bulq
6.Qui gon Jinn
7.Plo Koon
8.Darth Rage

The most powerful force users are
1.Yoda and Darth Plagueis and darth Vader and Kar Vastor
2.Darth sidious
3.Count Dooku and Luke
4.Mace Windu
5.Obi-One
6.Yaddle

The most powerful duelist
1.Luke
2. Darth Vader
3.Mace windu Yoda Count dooku Darth sidious Tulak hord
4. Obi-One and Darth Maul and Darth Plagueis and Aenon Jurtis and Sora Bulq
5.General grivieous
6.Kar vastor and Depa Billaba
7.Quigon Jinn
8. Plo Koon
9. Darth Rage

The greatest Jedis
1. Yoda
2.Aenon Jurtis and luke
3.Obi-One
4.Mace windu
5. Count Dooku (turned to darkside)
6.Shintor Beerus and lea organa solo and Ben Skywalker
7.  Ce Ce Denowai and
8. Qui Gonn and Kaja Sinis and Anakin Solo
9. Mara Jade Skywalker and yaddle
10. Plo Koon
11.Ki-Adi Mundi

The greatest Sith
1.Darth Vader
2.Darth Sidious
3.Darth Plagueis
4.Darth Maul and  Darth Ragnos
5.Count Dooku and Exar Kun
6.Darth Seer (Founder of the modern Sith Order)
7.Darth Rage

The all around greatest
1. Darth Vader
2. Yoda and Luke
3. darth sidious
4. Darth Plagueis
5.Obi-One and Count Dooku
6.Mace Windu and Darth Maul and Darth ragnos 
7.Lea organa solo and Ben Skywalker
8.Kar Vastor and Exar Kun
9.Plo Koon and Yaddle
10. Darth Rage
11. Ki-Adi Mundi

hard to kill
die another day

Mace Windu of course. He actually defeated the emperor in a light-sabre battle when Yoda could not.

wait are we also refering to darth vader as anakin skywalker, cos he is also good. He defeated count doku

Yes, but Anakim couldn't have defeated the emperor. Yoda told Obi-Wan-Kenobi that he can't defeat the emperor but the same kenobi was able to defeat Anakim after a very well-matched fight!

yeah thanx guyz

I have researched this topic and found out General Grevious Killed 23 Jedi And Fought Mace Windu and tied him But Mace windu Found the generals shatterpoint He has No force power So the next time they meet up he force crushes his stomach and leaves him with the Cough We see on episode 3 Obi-One beat grievious because Mace told Obi-One General Grievious's Shatterpoint. This Is why I say General Grievious is so deadly with a Lightsaber
But he does have a flaw his inability to use the force if he could use the force he would be one of the most Powerful Ever (killed by Obi-One)

Mace Windu Killed Kar Vastor and Beat Palpatine he also is the only one with a purple lightsabercant say to much about him he speaks for himself

Tulak Hord
It was said of Hord that he was the greatest of the ancient lightsaber masters of the Sith. Kreia stated that compared to him, all the greatest masters since were as children playing with toys.
Luke Skywalker Is the #1 Duelist and #1 With a Lightsaber because He beat The most Powerful Sith Ever Darth Vader

Darth Vader Has most Minichloriance and Killed Count Dooku and Obi-One not including 23 Other Jedi Not including all the other sith he killed when he was Anakin. This Leaves Darth With over 25  Kills Making Him the most Powerful Duelist Other Than Luke (Killed By Luke )


Obi-One Is a Wise Powerul mostly Smart fighter He won all of his battles with his ability to  outsmart the other Person Look at how he beat Grievious how he beat Maul How he Beat Anakin and think about it why he did not beat Count because Count was Smarter than Him He had More Age More experiance and wisdom this is why Obi-One did not beat Count

This means Obi-One high Up there as a duelist But not the most Powerful with a Lightsaber Hes jus smart (Killed By Vader)

Darth Maul Darth Maul Is the only person ever to be seen wielding a Saber staff not only that But Darth Maul at one point just about beat Darth Sidiuos In a Lightsaber Battle The story goes Like this     
    Sidious abandoned Maul on an isolated Outer Rim world, forcing him to survive alone while being hunted by hordes of assassin droids. After a month's time, his master returned and challenged his apprentice to a duel, one which Maul quickly lost. Sidious then told Maul that he had failed and he had been secretly training a replacement for him. Rage and hatred overwhelmed Maul and in one final act of defiance, he nearly defeated his master. When Maul's emotions were finally spent, he prepared himself for death, yet his master laughed instead. By wanting to kill his own master, Maul had in fact passed the final test.
      He did not officially beat His master but this was after having to survive on his own and fight hundreds of battle droids and this was early in Darth Mauls Life as a sith He had just become one at that time which makes me think that In episode 1 darth Maul was stronger than sidious. (defeated by qui-Gonn and Obi-One)

Count Dooku He held his own against Yoda Beat Obi-One and Killed Master Syfodius theres not much to say about him he speaks for himself (defeated By Anakin)

Darth sidious a.k.a Emperor Palpatine defeated The 3 Jedi helping Mace windu Arrest Palpatine and he beat Yoda also he killed  Ashka Boda Geith Empatojayos Brand
This Shows that sidious is Very Powerful (defeated By Mace windu and Killed by Vader)


                              There is no way to Say who is best Because of all the possibilitys of people lettig people win and There is no pattern to say who is the best Therefore the best cannot be Thought of There is one who does stand out above the rest and it is Luke Skywalker therefore He is the greatest of all U have seen what I have came up with from the data now u use it to come up with your own conclusions

Also In the book shatterpoint Mace Windu Kills The strongest Persoj In the planrt Kar Vastor Very powerful in the force Said to be as powerful maybe more than Yoda
Also in another book I read Obi-One states that Count Dooku Is stronger Than Darth Maul He didnt neccesarily Say In Lightsaber Usage or the force it jus says hes More Powerful

1. Luke Skywalker (NJO and beyond) was able to move his saber so fast that it was invisible
2. Tulak Hord (was stated to be the strongest ancient Sith with a saber and also stated that compared to the ancient Sith the KoToR Sith were children playing with toys)
3. Darth Bane (with under a year of training he was able to beat Kas'im, the best saber master of his era, and was able to toy with Sirak, the second strongest student in the academy. In his prime Bane possessed Orbalisk Armor which feeds adreneline into his body and also makes him invulnerable to lightsaber attacks - only his head remains unprotected)
4. Kol Skywalker (went up against about a dozen Sith at once and killed at least 7 of them)
5. Darth Sidious (from Dark Emperor, was stated to move so fast that he's a blur)
6. Kyle Katarn (with no formal training beat 7 Dark Jedi (5 f them one on one, tow of them he beat at the same time, though). Beat Desann when even Luke was unable to).
7. Exar Kun (Makashi Master, invented Double Bladed Lightsaber, beat Master Vodo as a Padawan and pwnd him as a Sith Lord)
8. Kas'im (was stated to be the best saber master of his era and possible the best of any era (includes the era of 1000 bby and earlier). Moves as a blur. Could possibly beat Exar Kun)
9. Mace Windu (inventor of Vaapad and only Vaapad Master in the sw universe, Vaapad is the Ultimate Form, Mace also has his unique Shatterpoint ability and bested ROTS Sidious in a saber duel)
10. Anakin Skywalker/ROTS Darth Vader (when his mind is clear and he's thinking properly he is able to pwn Dooku, beat Cin Drallig after fighting many other Jedi, though if he isn't thinking clearly, as in his fight with Kenobi in ROTS, he is behind a few other people).

Honorable mentions: Yoda (could maybe be above Anakin, not sure, very, very close), ROTS Kenobi (a bit further down the line), Dooku (same as Kenobi), Maul (further down than Yoda), ROTS Darth Sidious, EU General Grievous, Darth Revan, Darth Malak, Darth Traya.

4. Count Dooku and kar vastor

Kar Vastor is nor a saber wielder.

I have researched this topic and found out General Grevious Killed 23 Jedi And Fought Mace Windu and tied him

Actually, the General grievous comic states that he's killed over a hundred Jedi and he never stalemated Mace Windu, the fight you are referring to happens in Labyrinth of Evil and Mace wins, but it is pretty close.

Vader isn't the most powerful Sith ever, he hardly makes the top 20, Darth Nihilus, Sidious, Exar Kun, Darth Revan, Darth Bane, Tulak Hord and Marka Ragnos are above him for sure, they are the strongest.

Darth Maul Darth Maul Is the only person ever to be seen wielding a Saber staff not only that But Darth Maul at one point just about beat Darth Sidiuos In a Lightsaber Battle The story goes Like this

Darth Maul Darth Maul Is the only person ever to be seen wielding a Saber staff not only that But Darth Maul at one point just about beat Darth Sidiuos In a Lightsaber Battle The story goes Like this

1. Maul almost beat Sidious, making Sidious above Maul. Also, Maul is NOT the only one to wield a double bladed saber, Kas'im does, Exar Kun invented it, Bastila Shan, Darth Bandon uses one and he isn't even that great. There's a lot more people, too.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Double_Bladed_Lightsaber

Also in another book I read Obi-One states that Count Dooku Is stronger Than Darth Maul He didnt neccesarily Say In Lightsaber Usage or the force it jus says hes More Powerful

Not saying I disagree with that, but I'm just wondering which book you're referring to?

Mace Windu of course!

asI get older I learn more about starwars and figured that yandar plantis an old Jedi with six arms who killed 17 dark jedi and 3sith lords in one life time is probably the best

I know Kar Vastor did not have a lightsaber but he was so powerful he had to be mentioned

c'mon Luke is awful with a lightsaber
in my opinion the best sith and jedi with a lightsaber are:
1) Tulak Hord
2) Mace Windu
3) Vader (in his body not when he was a cyborg)

to Jduck13:
1) it's not Darth Ragnos, it's Marka Ragnos
2) Vader it's not the most powerful sith lord, the ancient Sith Lords are the greatest (in my opinion)
3) Obi-Wan is not greater than Mace Windu, Windu is almost incomparable in lightsaber combat
4) Luke is not the most powerful duelist
4) Leia Organa is not greater than Exar Kun
, and more others
check wiki and a few more other web sites and read carefully

(Most Powerful ever)

Yea i know and this time i did some major research 2 or 3 hours at least and this is what i have came uop with

What do u think


1. Darth Sidious Exar Kun Yoda
2.Luke skywalker
3.The Exile Darth Nihilus revan Jacen Solo (one day can be # 1)Darth Plagueis
4.Darh Scion Darth vader
5.Darth Traya Kar VAstor Cade Skywalker Count Dooku Mace Windu
6.Kyle Katarn
7.Obi One Kenobi Jaden Korr
8.Dark Woman Jorus Caboth
9.Lord Kaan
10.Marka Ragnos
11.DArth Maul
12.Darth BAne

not sure were Tyulak hord falls in there

what do you mean powerful? with a lightsaber, with the Force or both of them?

both im meaning just overall powerful like sidious is powerful because he clouded the minds of the whole jedi order tricked them killed a whole bunch of jedi and makes the great yoda go in to hiding

so what do u think about my top most powerful ''force users'' of all time

yeah, it's good
but sion cannot be better than traya,  he didn't had any apprentice, he killed lona vash but this is not enough for a "dark lord of the sith" like him
traya apprenticed revan, nihilus, sion, the exile and is a good dark mentor
I read the Jedi Council blamed her because several of his apprentices were seduced by the call of battle, then fall to the dark side
and maul can't be greater than bane who is the founder of the rule of two

sion had more raw power so i guess it would be a tie but traya is a greaat mentor but if u notie everyone she trains one day becomes stronger then her and maul had the potential to be a deadly weapon he was physically the quickest and most agile he was just dumb but he still cpuld have beat the crap out of bane bane was a wise loser if u ask me he had no power in force or lightsaber from what i read

I don't know so much about bane, everything I read about him was that he was the founder of rule of two, nothing more
and about sion you could be right, but traya is wiser than sion, she can lie a lot of people and the secret that she is a dark lord of the sith remain undiscovered until she tells the others that she is darth traya

I like u Tulak Hord U r Smart but in the game the exile couldnt defeat him in a fight but he could persuade him to leave the darkside there lies his weakness n there is where traya becomes as good or better than him she is 'smart' u r making a lot of sense and will possibly make me change my mind and put traya higher the truth is traya is smarter but she cant defeat scion in a fight

yeah you're right,  sion is not defetead 100%, but he is persuaded to turn back to the light side
can you give me your Y!M ID?

david_duck16 hit me up sometime

the exile didn't fought tulak hord, she confrunted/persuaded ajunta pall

sorry made a a gret confusion revan confrunted ajunta pall

I can't trust the research here from some you guys if you can't even spell the names of the characters right! (Obi ONE?!)

My knowledge of Star Wars outside of the films isn't that vast so I am going mainly by the movies as my reference. It's said Mace is the greatest with the lightsabre, certainly on the big screen I'd say Yoda deserves that title by a long shot. Mace however had a very composed style, very different to how it's described verbally, it's made out to be a very wild style that's lightning fast, if anything it was slow paced but very efficient, like Darth Vader's who certainly was stronger than Luke and Obi-Wan (People seem to think he's weaker as a cyborg, well slower definitely but if anything he certainly uses the Force more rather than Yoda style acrobatics in this form, definitely much stronger and tougher too with that armour on)

I will conclude it would go to Yoda, Grievous or Mace, Palpatine got lucky and if he didn't have his troops about Yoda could have finished the job. Yoda also could have killed that Count Dracula, he should have done. Grievous was the greatest warrior of the galaxy and Obi-Wan got lucky, he certainly didn't win in a straight fight, just as with his battle with Anakin, Obi-Wan picked up a blaster to kill Grievous and Anakin had the upper hand for most of their fight, just throwing it away at the end, Conveniently his legs dismembered so they grafted metal ones to make him half a foot taller (Why didn't they just cast a young man as tall as David Prowse?) The 3 Jedi 'masters' with Mace that came to arrest Emperor really were hopeless but he sure is a freak, I'd feel sick just meeting him! (Unlike most people I imagine I watched the old trilogy in reverse order btw, I sure hated the Emperor and I made Luke's mistake in underestimating him, I didn't think he could blast lightning!)

As for Luke, he really was poor in Empire Strikes Back, like his dad at his age he was a mess, he put up a nice fight but was owned alright, how the tables had turned so dramatically in ROTJ I don't think is possible. I'm sure Vader really didn't try to best him at all, watch how open Luke was in his rage! Vader sidesteps cleanly as one would in Virtua Fighter 3 or any beat em up that used a dodge button but rather strike his son down, pin him down or whatever he just gets down on one knee and holds his weapon out for Luke to strike him down! For me Vader didn't fight anywhere near as hard as he did in ESB, he did a neat throw of his sabre though, Luke definitely was a force to be reckoned with in that final film in any case. What I do like about Vader is how he fights mostly one handed unlike most Jedi, it shows good technique with a blade (Minus a few sloppy swings here and there )

Darth Maul duel wise yes he's good but force power no. Dooku is pretty good, considering he was an Apprentice who has mastered the Force and the sabre to a high level, Well it didn't save him from Anakin in the end and Anakin did quite well in their first encounter, all things considered. (Notice Dooku seemed tired after he beat him whereas Obi-Wan never made any impact on him!) Why Qui-Gon is mentioned at all here is a mystery, his only good point and bad was bringing Anakin to the Jedi, he wasn't a great Jedi at all! If a Sith apprentice beat him then he couldn't have been so great could he? (He did get a tasty fist into Maul's face at least) Why they wrote that he discovered how to live beyond death I have no idea, he showed no great aptitude in the force at all in that shoddy Phantom Menace.

All in all, Yoda, Mace, Grievous, Luke and Vader/Anakin are at the exceptional level, Yoda's sheer agility, Mace's affinity with attack and defence, Grievous the Jedi slayer, Luke's rapid advancement from his late training to facing his father 'Powerful Jedi is he, ' as Yoda described him, Vader himself, well he is the central character to the movies after all. How he bested one as adept as Dooku at such a young age, saved the day (and that scheming Palpatine) and still be branded a padawan, It is tragic, for good reasons yes but if someone demonstrates they're superior than their seniors so early and are kept in their place is enough to make anyone mad! (How many of the Jedi council were able to beat Dooku? Not many I bet)

Obi-Wan's more a defence fighter, I think Dooku being Qui-Gon's master had a negative effect on him in their fights as he always loses easily to him but was able to fight Grievous better than most. Dooku and Maul looked good on camera but as they were beaten squarely they can't really be elevated that high. Palpatine did not beat Yoda outright and I do think Mace was beating him legitimately so I won't put him up there. Qui-Gon, He lost to the weakest mentioned here didn't he! (I knew he dies in the movie before I watched it sadly, if I didn't I'd be shocked. He was actually holding his own against Maul without useless padawan to assist him so how that one knock ended it for him is a shame)