logica: Interestingly, several of the examples you mentioned are run by Indians. With banks, we all know what to expect from them, so...

AjanleKoko:

So Glo, Afrijet, Arik Air, etc., are owned by Indians?

Nigerians must find excuse sha. No shaking.

logica: You don't know the difference between "owned" and "run"?

AjanleKoko:

That's cute.

Glo isn't run by Indians, FYI.
Glo is run by Mrs Talabi, Sangowawa, and Paddy. And Mike himself. Any Indian in Glo is just an employee like the Nigerians who are complaining.
I work in that industry.

Afrijet isn't run by any Indians. Neither is Arik. If there is any Indian in the employ of Arik, such Indian certainly has no serious say in the management.

Stop making imaginary conjecture around. If you don't know, it's much better to restrain yourself from typing.

logica: Good for you; you are the only person who works in the Nigerian IT industry.

In any case, I have worked with Indians professionally and with Nigerians; for 6 years in the US I bested them as colleagues consistently. So when you say Nigerians are lazy, I take it you speak of those you pay chicken feed and expect to lose an arm and a leg working for you (like Indians do). I have some kids I am working with, and they are as good as any Indians I have ever worked with. This is software development I am talking about; the same one you hear Indians are the gods.

When I say Indians "run" a company, every sensible person knows I don't necessarily speak of management. What do Talabi and Paddy know about IT for instance? I do know they are essentially delegating to their slave drivers who have plenty of experience working in that capacity.

AjanleKoko:
Or why the Indians consistently fill the H1-B quota. Why are Nigerians not in there?

logica: Aha! H1-B? The same H1-B that I was employed on right from Nigeria 13 years ago? The same H1-B that helps America find cheap labor eh? Ha ha. Who else would fill the quota if not for those who have perfected cheap labor?

Yes, Indian companies have a head start, and that's why many of our banks run on Finacle and the like. How easy is it to compete with companies who have the advantage of even testing running their software in the US? The few Nigerian companies able to give them a run for their money are just not bothered because of the steep cost of getting into the industry. Yet we have several Nigerian companies offering competing software in other areas e.g HumanManager (SystemSpecs) even if it is crappy. But Nigerian software companies have mostly come alive with Mobile Banking/Payments. I can see what Parkway Projects have done; very professional. So yes, we are right there with the Indians even if we are a bit behind due to exposure.

AjanleKoko:

I can only return your he-he with another he-he. Like you're the first and only Nigerian to be recruited to the US via H1-B in 2000?

AjanleKoko:
You're also making cheap labor sound like a dirty word. That's part of the reality problem Nigerians have; there's a reason why these companies in Silicon Valley are taking these jobs away from their own people, don't you think? If there are cheaper alternatives available, why would they not take it?

Mr Aboki: [b]Indians and Chinese people all think and believe that they are superior to Africans, in the same way the WHite supremacists see africans as Niggas.\

However, my first job as a graduate in Canada was given to me by an Indian man. He even paid me the standard wage (20 dollars an hour) and said he will pay me cash so that I dont have to pay any government taxes on the money as he knows that I really needed it to settle.

He was indeed a great boss. Made me supervisor over even Indians (prolly cos he saw that I had a degree). At some point, I was like his second in command. However, those other indians that worked for the company and the indians that were our clients were retards.

The last day I worked for him was because of how an Indian client was very condecending to me. My boss saw it and immediately intervened as he saw that I was about to lose it.


But here in Africa, the matter is different. Go to all the businesses owned by;

Indians
Chinese &
Lebanese

and see how they treat and talk to their staff for minimum wage with no benefits.. [/b]

adconline: "Men lie, women lie, numbers dont"
Auto:
India companies: Tata which owns Range Rover and Jaguar, Mahindra, Bajaj makes our Keke-Napep
Naija companies: NONE.

Telecom.
India: 2 - Reliance and Bharti Airtel.
Naija: 1- Glo- most of the top managers are Indians.

IT/Software:
Indi:Infosys and Wipro. top vendors to most Naija banks. Finacle by Infosys is the top banking software for most Naija banks.

Naija: None

Billionaires
India: Forbes lists 55 Indians
Naija: 2

CEO of Global brands.
India: 8 Indians are CEOs at big US companies like Citibank ,Pepsi,Adobe
Naija: None.


Forbes World's Biggest 2000 companies:
India: 56 companies
Naija: 1- company- dangote

Independece:
India: 1947
Nigeria: 1960

So how come India has prospered more than Naija when Nigerians are more hard working?

Sagamite:

Then either refuse to work for them or, if you are working for them, quit.

adconline: "Men lie, women lie, numbers dont"
Auto:
India companies: Tata which owns Range Rover and Jaguar, Mahindra, Bajaj makes our Keke-Napep
Naija companies: NONE.

Telecom.
India: 2 - Reliance and Bharti Airtel.
Naija: 1- Glo- most of the top managers are Indians.

IT/Software:
Indi:Infosys and Wipro. top vendors to most Naija banks. Finacle by Infosys is the top banking software for most Naija banks.

Naija: None

Billionaires
India: Forbes lists 55 Indians
Naija: 2

CEO of Global brands.
India: 8 Indians are CEOs at big US companies like Citibank ,Pepsi,Adobe
Naija: None.


Forbes World's Biggest 2000 companies:
India: 56 companies
Naija: 1- company- dangote

Independece:
India: 1947
Nigeria: 1960

So how come India has prospered more than Naija when Nigerians are more hard working?

logica: Aha, your history lesson is not complete. Most of the success and prosperity India currently enjoys today trace directly back to the PC and software boom of the 80s especially Microsoft, IBM and several other major players in the IT industry. They just so happened to discover they could recruit Indians to do several of these jobs and at lower costs. And they simply stuck to this tried and tested formula: "You need cheap technical labor? Go to India".

I can draw an analogy between this and a football club called Espanyol in Spain. They employed goalkeeper Thomas Nkono (a Cameroonian) in the 80s. Because of his performance, they then employed another Cameroonian goalkeeper (Idris Kameni) in 2004. They had found a formula. This kind of action is common in football and in fact other areas of human endeavor: Newcastle had found a formula in a (preferably tall) strong African lone striker, like Levante. "Tried and tested" is the watch word. Now if Espanyol had tried a Nigerian and he did well like Nkono, they would forever be searching for Nigerian goalkeepers. But does this prove the Cameroonian goalkeeper is superior to other African goalkeepers in general? I think not.

So yes, the Indians capitalized on the situation and turned it into an industry: making labor available to the US.

oyb:

so why haven't nigerians been able to tap into this same formula or create our own?

oyb:
there is an attitude i have seen with a lot of nigerian artisans on projects and with mechanics too - take it or leave it - it cannot be done better than this; a complete satisfaction with mediocrity coupled with some sort of misplaced arrogance over perceived competence. there's an old man that used to be in my department - a CAD drafter. the man's knowledge of CAD was like 10%, and there were multiple QA issues with his work - but he was the only one, and he had a lot of pride for a person who imho could not draft for sheet. i'm very cad proficient, and this came about partially because i hated the idea of begging some lazy Arrow to stay back to finish his work.

LeJeun3: Defeatist attitude........... I have learnt that it doesn't work.

Venchy:

Good work ethics and ambitious for DEVELOPMENT while our leaders are busy looting public fund.

One more thing you forgot to mentioned is HEALTH CARE.....now, Nigerians are flying to India for medical treatment because we can't diagnose NOTHING, Madela never stepped out of South Africa for treatment but Nigerian politicians and their family flies out for dislocation of wrist.

Very serious matter, Jonathan dey Yab, Oduah dey mess and there's no CAR PARK at MM AIRPORT.....This are the reason why.

oyb:

so why haven't nigerians been able to tap into this same formula or create our own?
a large part of securing business is perception - so where are the issues with our brand management coming from?

there is an attitude i have seen with a lot of nigerian artisans on projects and with mechanics too - take it or leave it - it cannot be done better than this; a complete satisfaction with mediocrity coupled with some sort of misplaced arrogance over perceived competence. there's an old man that used to be in my department - a CAD drafter. the man's knowledge of CAD was like 10%, and there were multiple QA issues with his work - but he was the only one, and he had a lot of pride for a person who imho could not draft for sheet. i'm very cad proficient, and this came about partially because i hated the idea of begging some lazy Arrow to stay back to finish his work.

i have to wonder if this same attitude is not part of the higher level workers - a satisfaction for mediocrity coupled with the arrogance of 'we are uni graduates/white collar workers'

logica:
How is this a Nigerian thing? I will give an example of an acquaintance who used to think like some of you here: that if you have any software development need, go to India. He got seriously burned on a few projects; his Indian contacts delivered shoddy work and apparently they didn't even understand the requirements, and outright lied about their proficiency. He ended up still searching, but coming to Nigeria and Kenya. That is what is happening.

i seem to recall dangote choosing to hire filipinos over nigerians as factory workers because of their lazy attitude to work. i personally recall this attitude during my IT in siemens panel workshop - the workers all did over time, but for the money only. they paced themselves through the day to ensure they worked overtime. two years later there was a major management shakeup and their oga had to leave because the department was not profitable.

logica: Aha, your history lesson is not complete. Most of the success and prosperity India currently enjoys today trace directly back to the PC and software boom of the 80s especially Microsoft, IBM and several other major players in the IT industry. They just so happened to discover they could recruit Indians to do several of these jobs and at lower costs. And they simply stuck to this tried and tested formula: "You need cheap technical labor? Go to India".

I can draw an analogy between this and a football club called Espanyol in Spain. They employed goalkeeper Thomas Nkono (a Cameroonian) in the 80s. Because of his performance, they then employed another Cameroonian goalkeeper (Idris Kameni) in 2004. They had found a formula. This kind of action is common in football and in fact other areas of human endeavor: Newcastle had found a formula in a (preferably tall) strong African lone striker, like Levante. "Tried and tested" is the watch word. Now if Espanyol had tried a Nigerian and he did well like Nkono, they would forever be searching for Nigerian goalkeepers. But does this prove the Cameroonian goalkeeper is superior to other African goalkeepers in general? I think not.

So yes, the Indians capitalized on the situation and turned it into an industry: making labor available to the US.

oyb:

you are still missing the point - why is it indians are able to sell themselves and nigerians aren't?

what is stopping us from building our own wipro today? we have the same infrastructure challenges the indians have, not so?

logica: But I already pointed how they are able to "sell" themselves: they live off the contribution of the forerunners in the 80s to create tech giants like Microsoft, Apple, IBM etc. But like I said, most of them are not as competent as the general world would have us believe. It's not different from when Nigerians go to some other countries and they think by default we are all super-smart.

By the way, did you learn how the Indians ran down MultiLinks? I have never heard or seen more incompetence, laziness, sense of entitlement and corruption as found in the MultiLinks story.

logica:
By the way, did you learn how the Indians ran down MultiLinks? I have never heard or seen more incompetence, laziness, sense of entitlement and corruption as found in the MultiLinks story.

oyb:

You want to talk about multilinks when we have several companies nigerians ran down by themselves? Look at what is happening to aero, look at the bank chiefs who blew 25 billion, look at Jimoh Ibrahim and air nigeria

oyb:

You want to talk about multilinks when we have several companies nigerians ran down by themselves? Look at what is happening to aero, look at the bank chiefs who blew 25 billion, look at Jimoh Ibrahim and air nigeria

AjanleKoko:



It wasn't Indians that crashed Multilinks. It was South Africans. Telkom execs, to be precise.

Sagamite:

How is that a defeatist attitude?

Explain.



But yet some of our fucktards would fight you for not speaking proudly of Nigeria. For having the audacity of not thinking it is Giant of Africa.

And these fucktards because of their inferiority complex are always hating on South Africa and even Ghana now (as Ghana is beginning to leave them behind), instead of focusing their negative energy on the fucktards ruling them (which I bet majority of them voted for).

sCun: only in your filthy dreams.

AjanleKoko:

Aha.
You're now right where we have been since the beginning of this thread.

An exaggerated sense of self-importance, a serious case of entitlement-mentality, and a total lack of vision. That's the problem of the Nigerian working-class.
Indians are merely good at working the system, wherever they find themselves. In fact, it's the crudest of the lot that find themselves in Nigeria on a regular basis. My LinkedIn inbox is perennially bombarded by Indian CVs.

Of course I have worked consistently with Indians over the last 15 years to not give a crap about them, or be particularly impressed with them. But we Nigerians are so bad at packaging and positioning ourselves, it's just pathetic. There's a fundamentally-flawed assumption that Nigerians are naturally talented and hardworking. Nothing could be further than the truth. The hustling mentality is way to pervasive, and will prevent much quality from emerging. In fact most times it is shyt that floats - tough-talking nuccas

Let me even use Logica's stated area of specialization; software development. The very good companies or individuals are so few and so much in high demand, it is ridiculous. I once tried to hire someone and train the person in user interface design outside Nigeria, but the people I saw were more interested in the remuneration that whatever the job was about. Almost all candidates were entirely unsuitable, and many were unwilling.
I've had to resort to Indian or Eastern European companies for many development assignments.

So Nigerians should stop wailing about Indians or other employers. My dad used to say that, at some point in your career, you might find yourself working for the devil himself. Suck it up and learn from him is his recommendation, considering that since he's the devil, he obviously has something worth learning about, or some skill worth acquiring.

AjanleKoko:

Aha.
You're now right where we have been since the beginning of this thread.

An exaggerated sense of self-importance, a serious case of entitlement-mentality, and a total lack of vision. That's the problem of the Nigerian working-class.
Indians are merely good at working the system, wherever they find themselves. In fact, it's the crudest of the lot that find themselves in Nigeria on a regular basis. My LinkedIn inbox is perennially bombarded by Indian CVs.

Of course I have worked consistently with Indians over the last 15 years to not give a crap about them, or be particularly impressed with them. But we Nigerians are so bad at packaging and positioning ourselves, it's just pathetic. There's a fundamentally-flawed assumption that Nigerians are naturally talented and hardworking. Nothing could be further than the truth. The hustling mentality is way to pervasive, and will prevent much quality from emerging. In fact most times it is shyt that floats - tough-talking nuccas

Let me even use Logica's stated area of specialization; software development. The very good companies or individuals are so few and so much in high demand, it is ridiculous. I once tried to hire someone and train the person in user interface design outside Nigeria, but the people I saw were more interested in the remuneration that whatever the job was about. Almost all candidates were entirely unsuitable, and many were unwilling.
I've had to resort to Indian or Eastern European companies for many development assignments.

So Nigerians should stop wailing about Indians or other employers. My dad used to say that, at some point in your career, you might find yourself working for the devil himself. Suck it up and learn from him is his recommendation, considering that since he's the devil, he obviously has something worth learning about, or some skill worth acquiring.

birdman: '

I dont disagree with anything you just said, esp. our get- rich quick by any means attitude. However, this is not what you were asking originally. It seems the thread has shifted into a Nigerian-Indian comparison.

AjanleKoko:

Aha.
You're now right where we have been since the beginning of this thread.

An exaggerated sense of self-importance, a serious case of entitlement-mentality, and a total lack of vision. That's the problem of the Nigerian working-class.
Indians are merely good at working the system, wherever they find themselves. In fact, it's the crudest of the lot that find themselves in Nigeria on a regular basis. My LinkedIn inbox is perennially bombarded by Indian CVs.

Of course I have worked consistently with Indians over the last 15 years to not give a crap about them, or be particularly impressed with them. But we Nigerians are so bad at packaging and positioning ourselves, it's just pathetic. There's a fundamentally-flawed assumption that Nigerians are naturally talented and hardworking. Nothing could be further than the truth. The hustling mentality is way to pervasive, and will prevent much quality from emerging. In fact most times it is shyt that floats - tough-talking nuccas

Let me even use Logica's stated area of specialization; software development. The very good companies or individuals are so few and so much in high demand, it is ridiculous. I once tried to hire someone and train the person in user interface design outside Nigeria, but the people I saw were more interested in the remuneration that whatever the job was about. Almost all candidates were entirely unsuitable, and many were unwilling.

I've had to resort to Indian or Eastern European companies for many development assignments.

So Nigerians should stop wailing about Indians or other employers. My dad used to say that, at some point in your career, you might find yourself working for the devil himself. Suck it up and learn from him is his recommendation, considering that since he's the devil, he obviously has something worth learning about, or some skill worth acquiring.

AjanleKoko:



It wasn't Indians that crashed Multilinks. It was South Africans. Telkom execs, to be precise.