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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! (8674 Views)
Fasting On The Day Of Arafat: Sins Forgiven For Two Years / Fasting On The Day Of 'ashura (10th Muharram) / Ashura:Commemorating The Martyrdom Of Imam Hussain (as) in the Month of Muharram (2) (3) (4)
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by usermane(m): 6:55pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
Like i said earlier on Hadiths books are full of contradictory accounts. I have quoted 4 hadiths earlier on that question the fasting of ashura day. But that from my experience is sadly not enough to make ahlul sunnah probe the truth about the fasting or hadiths books in general. So in a bid to uncover the truth or perhaps learn the truth i will continue my analysis. Sahih muslim, book of fasting. Says that Ashura is one of the days of Allah. I don't know if this is true, for it is said that it was the prophet 's personal decision to fast on that day. Sahih muslim, book of fasting According to this hadith,even the christians marked the ashura day. Here,the prophet also intended to fast on the 9th of muharram from the next year. If that is the case, then why do muslims still mark ashura fast on 10th? This hadith inform us that the prophet did not get the chance to ever fast on ashura day after the first year because he died shortly after intending to change the date to 9th from the second year onwards. On the contrary, there are many hadiths that tell us the prophet did observe the ashura fast long before Ramadan was prescribed for muslims. These are more contradictions. Peace |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by xclusive43(m): 7:03pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
Al-Baqir: a. The hadeeth does not state that the Prophet he found them fasting the same period he entered Madina. However, when someone speaks without knowledge he would surely make stupied conclusion. This is known method in Arabic language that the writer does not even have a clue about it. The hadeeth likes to say: when the Prophet entered the Madina, he found jews fasting ashoura (i.e. he arrived and when ashoura came they were fasting it...). b. Jews used to calculate Ahsoura based on solar calander not luner so the day is not the same every year and hence the day could be in any month. This is known. c. The Prophet fasted the day while he was at Mecca anyhow and what happened in Madina is a confirmation. This is known in the Sahih from Ibn Umar and Aisha. d. The companions who narrated it could be from the Mursal of companions who narrate from other companion a known hadeeth to everyone. e. There is no one who opposed them when they narrated these narrations which mean they are all correct. May Allah guide us all as we do live an era of ignorants. 1 Like |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by Danmas: 7:04pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
usermane:Are you a politician? |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by Akiika: 7:23pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
Al-Baqir:Salam Al-Baqir, i have read your comments and enthused by your seemingly depth of Shiite theology, but i recommend you thread softly in making pronouncements. As regards Ashoora, you have made some valid arguement concerning the date chronology which i intend to research. I am neither a Shi'a nor a Sunni, but i am a muslim (as in, what the holy prophet taught us). I'll like to comment on the following you wrote ""O ahl al-bayt of the prophet! Your LOVE has been made obligatory in the holy Qur'an...it is enough among your many exalted virtues that if anybody prays without sending blessing on you, his prayer is void" ~Imam Shafi'i (R) " You have condemned some Hadiths, what makes this authentic? In what context was the quranic verse that the commentary follow revealed? The holy prophet made it clear that blood cannot move you forward where your deeds had moved you backward. Let Allah be the judge, you can't be sure your theological belief is the right one. I personally take exception in the part of Shiites belief that Aisha, Umar, Abbas and other non-progenies of the holy prophets are not given credence. While i support healthy discussion on differing opinion on theological beliefs, it should be civil and we should not attempt to discredit opinions of others especially when we were not there when these historical events occurred. I think we should be concerned about the very fundamental undeniable articles of our faith and the very basic sane rules of humanity. W'Allahu a'alam. 1 Like |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by xclusive43(m): 7:28pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
usermane: Like i said earlier on Hadiths books are full of contradictory accounts. I have quoted 4 hadiths earlier on that question the fasting of ashura day. But that from my experience is sadly not enough to make ahlul sunnah probe the truth about the fasting or hadiths books in general. So in a bid to uncover the truth or perhaps learn the truth i will continue my analysis. Brother please go seek for knowledge..... You are talking out of ignorance..... Why told you the Prophet did not fast Ashura? 1 Like |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by Akiika: 7:35pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
usermane: Like i said earlier on Hadiths books are full of contradictory accounts. I have quoted 4 hadiths earlier on that question the fasting of ashura day. But that from my experience is sadly not enough to make ahlul sunnah probe the truth about the fasting or hadiths books in general. So in a bid to uncover the truth or perhaps learn the truth i will continue my analysis. This is how arguement should go, not imposing one's opinion on others. What i have realised about some Hadiths is that there are problems with the placement date in time. Sahih Muslim for example is a student of Bukhari and it is known that he included some events that his teacher excluded because of shaky autheticity. |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by Alqaim: 7:38pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
xclusive43: Dear brother pls don't start the use of 'words'. Let's discuss intellectually! Here's your very 'copy-past' hadith: "Hazrat Ibn Abbas (Radiyallahu 'anh) reports that the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) arrived in Madinah and found the Jews observing fast on the day of ‘Ashura… They said: "It is the day of great (significance) when Allah delivered Hazrat Musa ...." [Sahih Bukhari and Muslim] 1. What does that hadith meant by "arrived Madina"? 2. If its the first year of Hijrah, then how old was Ibn Abbas to witnessed what has happened? 3. Then how come the prophet died the following year (presumably 2nd year of Hijrah when he actually died 10th year)? 4. If its 9th year perhaps "arrived" after an outing, then the heat is more now: A. Why long wait till 9th year of Hijra before discovering Jewish fasting on the day of Ashura? 1st, 2nd, 3rd...till 8th year of Hijrah. You mean he didn't see them? B. Which jewish tribe was left in Madina on the 9th year of Hijrah when all of them had either accepted Islam or exiled as far back as the battle of khaybar in the 7th year of Hijra? 5. There are many places in the holy Qur'an where Allah talks about Musa and Fir'aun. In fact Musa's story is the most in the entire Qur'an. So has Allah left "an important day of fasting of Ashura" in the life-story of Musa without informing His last prophet until certain JEW told him? Doesn't make any sense either. Either the "fast of Ashura" would have been told in the Qur'an or privately through inspiration to the prophet by Jubril from his Lord is accepted by Qur'an and reasoning. Never thru JEW. Now you wanna talk about ignorance! Your point B is even worse than point A. Where's your prove that the "Arab Jew" at the time of the prophet (saws) used to calculate their calendar based on SOLAR (sun)? OMG! Very funny dude! Your point C that he (saws) been fasting in Mecca and that of Madina when he found the jew was only confirmation showed you didn't even digest your hadith. Had it been you did you would have found that these ffg words showed he (saws) did not even have a clue of what 'Ashura day' meant: "...They said: "It is the day of great (significance) when Allah delivered Hazrat Musa .... Points D, E are guess work. Better luck next try. Salam. |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by Akiika: 7:41pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
xclusive43: Did He? please just provide evidence that he did. Don't discard his opinion. This is how i think we should argue. As i'm writing, i am fasting...but Al-Baqir raised an important point about the time chronology that if true punctured the Hadith about Ashoora in my opinion....but i'm researching it. |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by vedaxcool(m): 7:44pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
Every act of goodness is rewarded. Rewards are given based on the sincerity of the intention. Fasting is the only worship about which Allah has said that He Himself is the reward for it. This means that one develops such a close relationship with Allah that Allah Himself becomes the helper. only fool will throw away the benefits fasting just to spite Sunnis |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by Slitz(f): 8:04pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
babylolaroy: Al baqir, usermane supported you.are you happy nau?. it can be bid'ah if it is fasted with the intention of gaining d reward which was not prescribed by d prophet (saw).I.e if it was truly not prescribed by d prophet. Wallahu Allam |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by usermane(m): 8:40pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
Sahih Bukhari book, 31, 3223. In this hadith, the jews did not fast on ashura day to mark the exodus, ashura day was rather a day of celebration, a day to be merry for them. Didn't Imam muslim just say that the jews used to fast on ashura day? Sahih Bukhari,book of fasting,3147. Fasting as i understand commences from dawn till sunset. How come even those who had been eating even after sunrise were asked to stop eating till sunset? Did they not intend to fast or didn't the news reach them before morning that the following day was ashura day? Sahih bukhari, book of fasting,3116. If the reward for fasting on this day was so huge as today traditional muslims claim, why then did Abdullah who was suppose to be a sahaba stop fasting on it after Ramadan fasting was prescribed. Yet he observed voluntary fasting? Could it be that after Ramadan fast was prescribed, fasting on ashura day was no more special than fasting on any other day of the year? I think i will stop here. My food is getting cold. These discrepancies are significant enough to discredit hadith books or ashura day fasting. Funny enough,the average muslim is unaware of all these. All they know is that they ought to fast on ashura day and a tremendous reward await them. I haven't even come across a single hadith that ask for fasting also a day before or a day after the ashura yet. I believe if the hadiths were from God, we wouldn't find in them a single contradiction(Qur'an 4:82). God reject blind faith, we must confirm anything we hear or read before accepting it(Qur'an 17:36, 10:100). Nothing concern us with what our fore fathers, Imams of the past did. We are responsible for ourselves just as they are responsible for themselves. |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by xclusive43(m): 8:44pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
Al-qaim:1– You shites think that this means that as soon as he arrived at Madinah, he, peace be upon him, found them then fasting Ashuraa, like the next day or the next week. This is a strange claim, because the Hadeeths do not say that at all, but only say that AFTER Hijrah, which is the context of ‘Lamma Qadima’, the Prophet found the Jews fasting this day, i.e., when the next Muharram came not that he, peace be upon him, made Hijrah during Muharram or that the first week he was in Madinah, the Jews were fasting the tenth of Muharram on the tenth of Rabi Awwal. When the Jews fasted Ashuraa in the next Muharram, the Prophet salla-llahu alaihi wa-sallam, who used to fast it in Makkah, was told that the Jews fasted it because it is the day when Allah saved Musa and his people from Pharaoh and his people. This is when he, peace be upon him, ordered Muslims to fast it, whereas before that it was optional, saying that he has more right to observe it than the Jews. After Ramadhan was ordained in the second year of Hijrah, the fasting of Ashura became optional. 2-ibn Abbas was 4 years old.. Let's consider he is not exactly the most reliable resource. Ibn Abas, Abu Hurraira, Abu Musa al ashari and Muawiya are the narrators who claim that the prophet recommended the fast of Ashura. … Thus, can you label Muawiya as being a reliable source?” Indeed, all of the Prophet’s companions are truthful, trustworthy, and far more intelligent and pious than those who question their character. 5- Fasting on 'Ashura' was a gradual step in the process of introducing fasting as a prescribed obligation in Islam. Fasting appeared in three forms. When the Messenger of Allah ( peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) came to Madinah, he told the Muslims to fast on three days of every month and on the day of 'Ashura' , then Allah made fasting obligatory when He said (interpretation of the meaning): " … observing the fasting is prescribed for you … " [ Al-Qur'an 2:183] [Ahkam al-Qur'an by al-Jassas, part 1] The obligation was transferred from the fast of 'Ashura' to the fast of Ramadhan , and this one of the proofs in the field of Usul al-Fiqh that it is possible to abrogate a lighter duty in favour of a heavier duty. Before the obligation of fasting 'Ashura' was abrogated, fasting on this day was obligatory, as can be seen from the clear command to observe this fast. Then it was further confirmed later on, then reaffirmed by making it a general command addressed to everybody, and once again by instructing mothers not to breastfeed their infants during this fast. It was reported from Ibn Mas'ud that when fasting Ramadhan was made obligatory, the obligation to fast 'Ashura' was lifted, i.e., it was no longer obligatory to fast on this day, but it is still desirable (mustahabb). Soon reply the other numbers 1 Like |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by chakula: 8:54pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
Never can a sane person [Muslim] engage on a thread like this. Walking away searching for the beneficial stuff else where. |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by Alqaim: 8:57pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
vedaxcool: Vedaxcool, Your point I think has contradicted your conclusion. I agreed with u on the quoted page which reads: "Every act of goodness is rewarded. Rewards are given based on the sincerity of the intention...." Then there's an hadith by Umar b. Al-khattab: "Action shall be judge according to intention..." Fasting on the day of Ashura with the intention of JEW telling or direct the prophet is Batil. How many acts of prophetic Sunnah has Sunni changed just to be different from Shi'a! |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by maclatunji: 9:16pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
Akiika: Excellent. |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by usermane(m): 9:50pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
xclusive43: Cool down,cool down. Relax,control yourself. You don't need to ask me Jamb questions. Ok, it was sahih muslim, ibn Abbass made that report in book 6 Fasting, hadith no. 2528. I think i missed something though. To be correct it seem he did fast on only one ashura day, he then changed ashura to 9th muharram as from the next year instead of 10th but died before the next year. Then why after this are sunnis still marking ashura on tenth if the prophet changed it to 9th before he died? All the hadiths i cited, i gave references. Get the pdf version of Sahih Muslim and Bukhari. These hadiths you can find by typing "ashura" in the search or find box because their numberings are inconsistent sometimes. |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by xclusive43(m): 10:31pm On Nov 13, 2013 |
usermane: Please get this right... The Prophet has been fasting ashoura since before he migrated to Medina.... And he did not change the date of ashura... He only told us to and wanted to fast tasu'a which is on the 9th of muharram but Allah did not spear his life to fast tasu'a.. |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by BetaThings: 5:08am On Nov 14, 2013 |
Al-qaim:So the Shia started practising Islam and the Sunnis broke away from them and changed those practises to be different? There should be a limit to falsehood I believe that it is the Sunnis that introduced the name of Ali(RA) into the Adhan? Right! 2 Likes |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by BetaThings: 5:16am On Nov 14, 2013 |
Al-qaim: Shias claim Prophets and their Imams never err But that thread supplied evidenceS to the contrary from the Qur'an that Prophets erred and sought forgiveness Al-qaim: Really? Shia too stone adulterers - where is it in the Qur'an? And the Shia central concept of imamate is not in the Qur'an. Please don't bring those circumstantial evidences (verses). When it suits you, you guys claim everything should be in the Qur'an 2 Likes |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by usermane(m): 6:30am On Nov 14, 2013 |
xclusive43: Ok,can you tell us why some muslims fast either 8th and 9th or 9th and 10th while others fast 9th and 10th or 10th and 11th? Also have you seen the hadith that tells us the ashura day was like Eid day for the Jews, how about your claim that the Jews fasted on that day? Also what can you say about Aisha 's hadith that Quraysh tribe some of whom were pagans, fasted on Ashura days during the Pre Islamic period? Also, assuming the Prophet did fast on Ashura day before migrating to medina, why after meeting the Jews fasting did he make an order for muslims to fast on that day? In summary, it is difficult, if not impossible to reach a conclusion about when Ashura day fasting debuted or the reason for which ashura day should be marked with a fast. |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by kaybyte: 7:46am On Nov 14, 2013 |
babylolaroy: al baqir, yu cant ever do away with long epistles. let someone just utter a letter, yu v written a page. dnt bother to thank me for my time cos i couldnt finish it buh i grab ur point.salamu alaykum, i am amazed that you guys are still dragging issues with all this shiit guys. People who insult aisha, abubakar and umar r.a, calling them people of hell. They misguided and you have to be careful not to let them misgiude you too. As long as islam is cocerned, sahih bukhari and muslim are the second most authentic book after the qur'an. Most of the shiits are not muslim because there calima has taken them away from the fold of islam. They say aisha ra is a prostitute. Ask them what is there origin. So there brothers and sisters, leave those guys alone because they only believe in there books and not the books of authority in islam. 1 Like |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by babylolaroy(f): 5:30pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
xclusive43:its true dear brother. The prophet the following year when he intended to observe the fast..That means he gave it approval buh was not opportuned to ever fast it Allahu alam |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by babylolaroy(f): 6:00pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
Slitz: . it can be bid'ah if it is fasted with the intention of gaining d reward which was not prescribed by d prophet (saw).I.e if it was truly noti understand your point mashaAllah buh i wanna differ. i believe (my belief) that any type of fast is nafila if its not ramadhan. Am nt talking of the ashura on ground o...generally if dia is a fast the prophet didnot recommend, i think its 'fastable' now once yur intent is to gain a reward nd not to innovate..say maybe we can use a nafila fast to beg Allah..or yu just feel like fasting on a good ordinary TUESDAY for absolutely no reason... pls let no one ansa me o except the person i address this to..pls and pls. i dnt want a debate with anybody |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by LagosShia: 7:50pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
kaybyte: salamu alaykum, i am amazed that you guys are still dragging issues with all this shiit guys. People who insult aisha, abubakar and umar r.a, calling them people of hell. They misguided and you have to be careful not to let them misgiude you too. As long as islam is cocerned, sahih bukhari and muslim are the second most authentic book after the qur'an. Most of the shiits are not muslim because there calima has taken them away from the fold of islam. They say aisha ra is a prostitute. Ask them what is there origin. So there brothers and sisters, leave those guys alone because they only believe in there books and not the books of authority in islam. you don't deserve to be answered or helped.you should help yourself because your ignorance stems out of nonsense.research and reach a certain level that can merit answers from us and to engage you in discussion. |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by mohib99: 8:57pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
May Subhanahu wa Ta'ala guide us to the right path |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by AlBaqir(m): 10:45pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
xclusive43: Salam, To your points: Point1. I don't need to comment on personal theories. 2. Al-hamdulillah for once you agree Abdullah Ibn Abbas (R) was not credible to report the hadith because of his age. Then why lying against him (r)? and this has suggested you concur the "arrival" was the 1st year of Hijrah otherwise you wouldn't have submit on Ibn Abbas just like that. Telling me its for the sake of argument do not hold. Other reporters: Abu Musa al-Ashari came from the tribe of Ashar in Yemen. He converted to Islam before Hijra and since that day till khaybar (7th year Hijrah), he was no where to be found. The prophet sent him back to Yemen to spread Islam and he was never with the holy prophet in the 1st year of Hijra. Abu hurayra converted to Islam 3years before the demise of the holy prophet(saws) in Sham (Syria) and was only seen in Madina after khaybar which occured in 7th year hijra. If one werent at the event then how can one narrate what happened? Muawiyyah converted to Islam in the 8th year of hijra which was 7th yr after the mentioning of the hadith relating to Ashura. Besides can one label Mu'awiya a reliable source? Somebody whom the holy prophet (saws) said: "“At the time of his death, Mu’awiyah shall not be counted as member of my Muslim Ummah.” (Al- Tabari, Muhammad ibn Jarir. Ta'rikh Al-Rusul Wa'l- Muluk(Vol. 8, Pg. 186; Imam Nasai was killed in Sham because of a single hadith he narrated on Mu'awiyah where Rasul cursed him)) NB: Please how can you say ALL the sahaba of the prophet (saws) are righteous? ON SAHABA! Shi'a stand on general sahaba is that: Not ALL of them were righteous. Qur'an exposed some of Munafiq among them to the point that some were unknown to the prophet; Allah said only Him know them (sura Tawbah vs 101). Qur'an, hadith and History even reveal those who apostatized among them after the death of the prophet. And truly there were many righteous steadfast role-model personalities among them. Let me give you a peep: Ala b. Al-Musayyab narrated from his father, who said: "I met al-Bara'a ibn Azib and said to him: "You are fortunate, you were a companion of the prophet and paid allegiance to him under the tree". Whereupon he said: "'My nephew, you do not know what we INNOVATED after him" (al-Bukhari vol. 5 p. 66) Allah knew many of them will violate their oath; hence he warned: "Those who paid allegiance to you in fact pay allegiance to Allah. The hand of Allah is over their hands. And WHOEVER VIOLATES that oath has done so against his own(self)~Q48:10" Also prophet fore-told: "On the day of resurrection you will be grabbed from the left, and I will say: 'where are they (being taken) to?' It will be said: "To Hell, by God. ' I will say: "my Lord! These are my companions'. It will be said: 'You do not know what they did after you. From the time you left them they never ceased to apostatize. ' I will say: 'Away with him, away with him, woe to him who changed things after me. And I do not see anyone of them being saved except that he will be like a forlorn sheep". (Sahih al-Bukhari vol. 7 p. 209, vol 4 p. 94, 156; Muslim vol. 7 p. 66). To your last theories: Brother, ain't gonna take those theories dogmatically. Prove with concrete evidence inkuntum sadiqin. Salam. |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by AlBaqir(m): 10:45pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
xclusive43: Salam, To your points: Point1. I don't need to comment on personal theories. 2. Al-hamdulillah for once you agree Abdullah Ibn Abbas (R) was not credible to report the hadith because of his age. Then why lying against him (r)? and this has suggested you concur the "arrival" was the 1st year of Hijrah otherwise you wouldn't have submit on Ibn Abbas just like that. Telling me its for the sake of argument do not hold. Other reporters: Abu Musa al-Ashari came from the tribe of Ashar in Yemen. He converted to Islam before Hijra and since that day till khaybar (7th year Hijrah), he was no where to be found. The prophet sent him back to Yemen to spread Islam and he was never with the holy prophet in the 1st year of Hijra. Abu hurayra converted to Islam 3years before the demise of the holy prophet(saws) in Sham (Syria) and was only seen in Madina after khaybar which occured in 7th year hijra. If one werent at the event then how can one narrate what happened? Muawiyyah converted to Islam in the 8th year of hijra which was 7th yr after the mentioning of the hadith relating to Ashura. Besides can one label Mu'awiya a reliable source? Somebody whom the holy prophet (saws) said: "“At the time of his death, Mu’awiyah shall not be counted as member of my Muslim Ummah.” (Al- Tabari, Muhammad ibn Jarir. Ta'rikh Al-Rusul Wa'l- Muluk(Vol. 8, Pg. 186; Imam Nasai was killed in Sham because of a single hadith he narrated on Mu'awiyah where Rasul cursed him)) NB: Please how can you say ALL the sahaba of the prophet (saws) are righteous? ON SAHABA! Shi'a stand on general sahaba is that: Not ALL of them were righteous. Qur'an exposed some of Munafiq among them to the point that some were unknown to the prophet; Allah said only Him know them (sura Tawbah vs 101). Qur'an, hadith and History even reveal those who apostatized among them after the death of the prophet. And truly there were many righteous steadfast role-model personalities among them. Let me give you a peep: Ala b. Al-Musayyab narrated from his father, who said: "I met al-Bara'a ibn Azib and said to him: "You are fortunate, you were a companion of the prophet and paid allegiance to him under the tree". Whereupon he said: "'My nephew, you do not know what we INNOVATED after him" (al-Bukhari vol. 5 p. 66) Allah knew many of them will violate their oath; hence he warned: "Those who paid allegiance to you in fact pay allegiance to Allah. The hand of Allah is over their hands. And WHOEVER VIOLATES that oath has done so against his own(self)~Q48:10" Also prophet fore-told: "On the day of resurrection you will be grabbed from the left, and I will say: 'where are they (being taken) to?' It will be said: "To Hell, by God. ' I will say: "my Lord! These are my companions'. It will be said: 'You do not know what they did after you. From the time you left them they never ceased to apostatize. ' I will say: 'Away with him, away with him, woe to him who changed things after me. And I do not see anyone of them being saved except that he will be like a forlorn sheep". (Sahih al-Bukhari vol. 7 p. 209, vol 4 p. 94, 156; Muslim vol. 7 p. 66). To your last theories: Brother, ain't gonna take those theories dogmatically. Prove with concrete evidence inkuntum sadiqin. Salam. |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by AlBaqir(m): 10:46pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
BetaThings: Betathing, You really don't like giving a benefit of doubt at all to your opponents. And I tell you, you can only exercise patience to take the bull by the horn. If a claim is being made, it is better to ask for proves "...inkutum sadiqin (if you are truthful)" Qur'an says. I made a claim, you should have challenge me to bring out evidence and you know me before now ONLY sunni sources will I tender. Instead of using "falsehood" or accusing. May Allah refine our deeds and give us better understanding to accommodate ourselves. I think not to earn the "MoD's" wrath again (which sometimes lead to Banning), I will demand and let my opponent demand from me set of rules we should indulge in before engaging in dialogue. If you wish to continue, let's keep it subtle. Am all yours dear brother. Thanks, Salam |
Re: Why Fasting On The Day Of Ashura? I Need Answers Pls! by AlBaqir(m): 10:51pm On Nov 14, 2013 |
kaybyte: salamu alaykum, i am amazed that you guys are still dragging issues with all this shiit guys. People who insult aisha, abubakar and umar r.a, calling them people of hell. They misguided and you have to be careful not to let them misgiude you too. As long as islam is cocerned, sahih bukhari and muslim are the second most authentic book after the qur'an. Most of the shiits are not muslim because there calima has taken them away from the fold of islam. They say aisha ra is a prostitute. Ask them what is there origin. So there brothers and sisters, leave those guys alone because they only believe in there books and not the books of authority in islam. Hmmm...I wouldn't have reply but... Kaybyte, Dear brother/sister, I was a young inquisitive student of learning in 1993 when I read books written by Sunni Ulamas and attended lectures on Shi'a. That was where I actually got the gist of shia is this! Shia is that for the first time in my life. Then my quest for research begin... It is only disheartened that at this modern age, Sunni Ulama and students continue to repeat same old story. ON SAHABA! Shi'a stand on general sahaba is that: Not all of them were righteous. Qur'an exposed many Munafiq among them to the point that Allah said only Him know them (sura Tawbah vs 101). Qur'an, hadith and History even reveal those who apostatized among them after the death of the prophet. And truly there were many righteous steadfast role-model personalities among them. Let me give you a peep: Ala b. Al-Musayyab narrated from his father, who said: "I met al-Bara'a ibn Azib and said to him: "You are fortunate, you were a companion of the prophet and paid allegiance to him under the tree". Whereupon he said: "'My nephew, you do not know what we INNOVATED after him" (al-Bukhari vol. 5 p. 66) Allah knew many of them will violate their oath; hence he warned: "Those who paid allegiance to you in fact pay allegiance to Allah. The hand of Allah is over their hands. And WHOEVER VIOLATES that oath has done so against his own(self)~Q48:10" Also prophet fore-told: "On the day of resurrection you will be grabbed from the left, and I will say: 'where are they (being taken) to?' It will be said: "To Hell, by God. ' I will say: "my Lord! These are my companions'. It will be said: 'You do not know what they did after you. From the time you left them they never ceased to apostatize. ' I will say: 'Away with him, away with him, woe to him who changed things after me. And I do not see anyone of them being saved except that he will be like a forlorn sheep". (Sahih al-Bukhari vol. 7 p. 209, vol 4 p. 94, 156; Muslim vol. 7 p. 66). Sahaba are so important to us that even scholars of hadith grade many hadith weak or fabricated as a result of the personality of a particular sahaba. If Allah can ask the prophet (and his companions initially) to learn from the story of this and that (of the good and bad people of the past), why won't we scrutinize those who are 'closer' to us in time? Ours is never to judge but to learn from their good and bad. Emotionally some shia do curse certain sahaba but this is never the way of our Imam(a.s). When Imam Aliconquered Aisha, one of his disciples suggested she should be taken captive. Imam said: "woe on to you, will you take your mother captive?" Shia best book of Du'a is "Mafatih al-Jinan" (you can search and download it here:www.getjar.com). See if you will ever find curse of sahabas there! Only those who killed Hussain and ahl al-bayt of their prophet were cursed! CONCERNING AL-BUKHARI & OTHERS! If al-Qur'an can give room for its scrutiny where it challenge anybody in various field to research into it if they would find discrepancies in it, what is Al-bukhari, Muslim, al-Kafi, wasail shia et al that we are so afraid to scrutinized? There might be certain motives behind it. To me its even insultive to say certain books are most authentic after Qur'an. I believe there are many lies, fabrication in the narration of al-Bukhari and others as there are many sahih narration in them. Here I present to you examples: www.nairaland.com/1501204/how-true-narrations-sahih-bukhari May Allah open our heart and inner eyes for truth. Salam ORIGIN OF SHI'A Abdullah ibn saba! That's what every tom dick and harry sunni will exclaim! Thank God people are awakening! May Allah bless Dr. Taha Hussain, an egyptian sunni scholar who erase the myth of Ibn saba in relation to Shi'a. You can read the origin of shia here if you are ready to research: www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/historic-background-of-shiism.html |
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