chukwudi44: Luke 20:34-38

New International Version (NIV)

34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. 37 But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’[a] 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”


@Ajibam and ayoku

Was abraham,isaac and jacob reffered to in the passage above dead or alive?

Moses was talking to God directly not to Abraham, he never said Abraham pray for us. Although they are alive in the Lord. Now we are all saints through Christ our Lord doesn't mean I'll call my Late pastor to pray for me.

oluboyo04: they are alive but are not permitted to pray for anyone. the same reason Abraham was nt permitted to help the richman's family in the story of lazarus and the richman. Only JESUS is the mediator between God and man

Bros the rich man was in hell hence no remedy for him.We are on earth and under the grace of God so that analogy is not applicable.

FredAuto:

Moses was talking to God directly not to Abraham, he never said Abraham pray for us. Although they are alive in the Lord. Now we are all saints through Christ our Lord doesn't mean I'll call my Late pastor to pray for me.

bros do your pastors pray for you? yes or no

I am actually wondering why the uproar, people actually pay to go and see the bones of the homo erectus, evolution scholars actually see its discovery as a breakthrough and a thing to preserve with pride. If not the work of the evil one, why should christians be tearing themselves up that the bone of st. peter is up for display. Everybody is shouting catholic church this, catholic church that, where was your church when st peter was murdered and the christians or was it the catholic church took care to retrieve his body and secure his bones through generations till now. Oh all of a sudden it is the catholic church doings and others are free from it. If you call yourself a christian, your history should matter to you, for you could not have practised christianity read from the bible, more than those who studied at the foot of the apostles...and who by the way, preserved the bones of peter first.

hikmoj: Was it not d same peter dat denied jesus 3times?

For me that is not even the point, after all all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And Jesus himself forgave Peter and picked him as "the rock on which His church will stand". My issue is, they don't even know if its St. Peter's bones!!! It could be the bones of some rich dude or priest. Very funny bunch of people.

vivacious vivi:

For me that is not even the point, after all all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And Jesus himself forgave Peter and picked him as "the rock on which His church will stand". My issue is, they don't even know if its St. Peter's bones!!! It could be the bones of some rich dude or priest. Very funny bunch of people.

Very good point! They don't even know that the bones are those of the apostle Peter!

Even the OP says:

The church never officially declared the bones — which were discovered in the 1940s — authentic. But a series of exhaustive tests conducted on the bones between their discovery and 1968 convinced Pope Paul VI they had been "identified in a way we can hold to be convincing."

At the least that means they have plenty of doubts. It is clever speak --- but it is still speak that say we don't know for sure!

nutty_hnic: Who else feels the Roman catholic religion is actually.............Mystery Babylon of the book of Revelations?

Uncle i

The dead is dead and forgotten.There is no benefit in displaying the bones of the dead to the living. Where I weak for Catholics na where them dey claim say them no wan carry first,they no wan strive for the kingdom of God.As they no get strenght say na last them wan carry.Give us Purgatory.Why settle for an imaginary ' place of temporary punishment' when there is a better offer.Some people are busy seeking God's righteousness while others are busy picking bones of dead people and preserving them for posterity.Quite funny. My prayers is that they realize they errors while there is still time and do the needful.

Ukuts gp: i wonder what they are even doing with those bones. Are there special anointing in those rotten bones? Pls catholic allow those bones to rest in peace abeg. u people are nt dogs. Ok

I wonder. God said from dust you came from and dust you shall return. he didn't say we should shele some bones and keep for later generations. seem occultic to me.

oluboyo04: they are alive but are not permitted to pray for anyone. the same reason Abraham was nt permitted to help the richman's family in the story of lazarus and the richman. Only JESUS is the mediator between God and man

That parable was not literal

macof:

Wats d difference between Jesus and Peter? they're both dead, if Peter can't pray for us, Jesus can't either.
If Jesus can, Peter can as well as my grand father

the difference is Jesus rose from the dead and peter didn't. try use ur head and not ur bottom to think.

Logicboy03:


I know....the apocrypha.....

This is the simple reason why I laugh at other churches that mock the catholic church.....they have very little idea about the completeness of their bible

"The best bible is the one you can read,understand and put to practice". You have not finished 66,but want to tackle 73

MEILYN:
1. The deceased are deceased,
unlike friends/ pastors here who are alive.
2. The Bible says not to contact the deceased.
3. The Bible does give examples of asking the non-deceased to
pray.
4. The Bible does not even hint that the dead have omniscience or anything close to it.

I am not dismissing Marys importance, but the facts are clear: She was not a part of the Gospel message. There are no references to her leading people to Jesus, answering prayers, etc.

The dead cannot pray for you.

At the transfiguration on the mount was Jesus speaking with the 'dead' or not?

crowaddy:

"The best bible is the one you can read,understand and put to practice". You have not finished 66,but want to tackle 73

^^^ Dem never even hear of the Bible of the Ethiopean Christians wey get ---81 books!

chukwudi44:

bros do your pastors pray for you? yes or no

Yes. cos the pastors are still alive. no one call on a dead pastor to pray for them.

six one:

the difference is Jesus rose from the dead and peter didn't. try use ur head and not ur bottom to think.

My grand father also rose from the dead

akd jr: Very soon they will come out with a bone telling those my slave brother who have been held captive for long that is Jesus Christ bone... wake up Africans!

You're worried about the Europeans deceiving us but you neglect to mention the home made 419ers that feed fat on our seeds and tithes.

chukwudi44:

bros do your pastors pray for you? yes or no

@ least those pastors are alive.
They didn't die two thousand and odd years ago.

When are y'all gonna get some sense?Lawd have mercy.

its amazing how people say the catholic bible but they fail to understand that its still the most widely accepted canon even the leaders and one of the most respected protestant leader Martin Luther king tried removing some books Martin Luther (1483–1546) made an attempt to remove the books of Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation from the canon (partially because they were perceived to go against certain Protestant doctrines such as sola scriptura and sola fide),[35] but this was not generally accepted among his followers.

what you have to know is that there are a lot of books like the gospel from judas and a lot more
when it comes to praying to the saints catholics dont pray to the saints and ok lets say catholic pray to the saints whats the prayer line do you know?
St Peter pray for us!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats it in revelation theres a verse that said the prayers of the said rise to the throne of God
its just when a yoruba man say ORI IYA MI GBA MI O and the mum is dead
Mary, saints.... the most catholics do is say Pray for us
I heard some pastors use other pastors name to pray too like God of Adeboye

miss brown eyes: When pentecostals say the God of abraham, isaac and jacob dey aint saying dey shuld pray for us like the catholics do bt wat dey mean is dt the God that worked wonders in the life of abraham, isaac and jacob is stil d same and can do greater tins and that is why i like RCCG's motto, the same God today, yesterday and forever.

Of course believe RCCG that is less than 100 years old and leave the one that has existed for centuries. Nigerians with their funny brand of christianity.

I'm afraid that it is a lie spread by Roman Catholics to say that Luther "removed" 7 books from the Bible.

OK then from one I made earlier here are examples of prominent Roman Catholics who also "removed" books from the Bible!
----------------------------------

Let us put the lies of the Roman Catholic denomination people on this thread in stark relief. Here are three extremely prominent Roman catholic denomination people also "removing" books from the Bible --- what the liars here are accusing Luther of.

Note the ranking of these people in the Roman catholic denomination

Jerome: Roman catholic denomination people call him a "church father"; he is the one who came up with the Roman catholic people's own very bible i.e. the vulgate!

"Pope Gregory I aka Gregory "the Great" --- a whole Roman Catholic "pope"! In fact the Roman Catholics think so much of him they call him "the Great"!

"Cardinal" Cajetan --- a whole Roman Catholic cardinal; the one who interrogated the same Martin Luther

Yet all these three people also "removed" books from the Bible ---- just like Luther is being accused of here at least with half truths (to borrow the words of one of my crybabies).


Jerome:

"As the Church reads the books of Judith and Tobit and Maccabees but does not receive them among the canonical Scriptures, so also it reads Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus for the edification of the people, not for the authoritative confirmation of doctrine."


Per "pope" Gregory I or Gregory the Great

Just before referring to the Maccabees, he said

“With reference to which particular we are not acting irregularly, if from the books, though not Canonical, yet brought out for the edifying of the Church, we bring forward testimony.”


Per "Cardinal" Cajetan

"Here we close our commentaries on the historical books of the Old Testament. For the rest (that is, Judith, Tobit, and the books of Maccabees) are counted by St Jerome out of the canonical books, and are placed amongst the Apocrypha, along with Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus, as is plain from the Prologus Galeatus. Nor be thou disturbed, like a raw scholar, if thou shouldest find anywhere, either in the sacred councils or the sacred doctors, these books reckoned as canonical. For the words as well of councils as of doctors are to be reduced to the correction of Jerome. Now, according to his judgment, in the epistle to the bishops Chromatius and Heliodorus, these books (and any other like books in the canon of the Bible) are not canonical, that is, not in the nature of a rule for confirming matters of faith. Yet, they may be called canonical, that is, in the nature of a rule for the edification of the faithful, as being received and authorised in the canon of the Bible for that purpose. By the help of this distinction thou mayest see thy way clearly through that which Augustine says, and what is written in the provincial council of Carthage."



Now, according to the Council of Trent, each of the "church father", the "pope" and the "cardinal" would now be anathema because they all excluded books which the Roman Catholics include in their canon at Trent --- in 1546!

I am sure that touching the bones can heal

Logicboy03:


Dead people dont pray.

Sorry.....as a catholic, I never got used to the intercession of saints

those who are in Christ don't die but alive forever

oh so Apocrypha are now part of the bible you ll go back and forth just to say you are right ba if catholics list it you ll cry oh they have added to the bible if they remove you ll say oh martin luther king didnt remove but catholics removed
guy go check your history

Enigma: I'm afraid that it is a lie spread by Roman Catholics to say that Luther "removed" 7 books from the Bible.

OK then from one I made earlier here are examples of prominent Roman Catholics who also "removed" books from the Bible!
----------------------------------

Let us put the lies of the Roman Catholic denomination people on this thread in stark relief. Here are three extremely prominent Roman catholic denomination people also "removing" books from the Bible --- what the liars here are accusing Luther of.

Note the ranking of these people in the Roman catholic denomination

Jerome: Roman catholic denomination people call him a "church father"; he is the one who came up with the Roman catholic people's own very bible i.e. the vulgate!

"Pope Gregory I aka Gregory "the Great" --- a whole Roman Catholic "pope"! In fact the Roman Catholics think so much of him they call him "the Great"!

"Cardinal" Cajetan --- a whole Roman Catholic cardinal; the one who interrogated the same Martin Luther

Yet all these three people also "removed" books from the Bible ---- just like Luther is being accused of here at least with half truths (to borrow the words of one of my crybabies).


Jerome:

"As the Church reads the books of Judith and Tobit and Maccabees but does not receive them among the canonical Scriptures, so also it reads Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus for the edification of the people, not for the authoritative confirmation of doctrine."


Per "pope" Gregory I or Gregory the Great

Just before referring to the Maccabees, he said

“With reference to which particular we are not acting irregularly, if from the books, though not Canonical, yet brought out for the edifying of the Church, we bring forward testimony.”


Per "Cardinal" Cajetan

"Here we close our commentaries on the historical books of the Old Testament. For the rest (that is, Judith, Tobit, and the books of Maccabees) are counted by St Jerome out of the canonical books, and are placed amongst the Apocrypha, along with Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus, as is plain from the Prologus Galeatus. Nor be thou disturbed, like a raw scholar, if thou shouldest find anywhere, either in the sacred councils or the sacred doctors, these books reckoned as canonical. For the words as well of councils as of doctors are to be reduced to the correction of Jerome. Now, according to his judgment, in the epistle to the bishops Chromatius and Heliodorus, these books (and any other like books in the canon of the Bible) are not canonical, that is, not in the nature of a rule for confirming matters of faith. Yet, they may be called canonical, that is, in the nature of a rule for the edification of the faithful, as being received and authorised in the canon of the Bible for that purpose. By the help of this distinction thou mayest see thy way clearly through that which Augustine says, and what is written in the provincial council of Carthage."



Now, according to the Council of Trent, each of the "church father", the "pope" and the "cardinal" would now be anathema because they all excluded books which the Roman Catholics include in their canon at Trent --- in 1546!

^^^ The Apocrypha is part of the Roman Catholic Bible is it not?

And that is partly why we say the Roman Catholic Bible is the Roman Catholic Bible.

so whats your point you stated earlier the vote and you posted the stats catholic church is not a one man show or one DADDY GO SHOW some dont agree to it some did agree to it and it boils down to the vote

Enigma: ^^^ The Apocrypha is part of the Roman Catholic Bible is it not?

And that is partly why we say the Roman Catholic Bible is the Roman Catholic Bible.

nd these are the books----

Deuterocanonicals/Biblical Apocrypha



Additions to Daniel
Main article: Prayer of Azariah#Texts and Origin
The Greek text of the Book of Daniel contains additions not found in the Hebrew/Aramaic version. All are anonymous. The Prayer of Azariah (one of Daniel's companions) was probably composed around 169/8-165/4, when Antiochus IV was oppressing the Jews. The Song of the Three Holy Children (i.e., the three thrown into the furnace) may have been composed by priestly circles in Jerusalem. Susanna may have been composed around 170–130 BCE in the context of the Hellenisation struggle. Bel and the Dragon is difficult to date, but the late 6th century is possible.[55]

1 & 2 Esdras
Main articles: 1 Esdras#Author and criticism and 2 Esdras#Author and criticism
Jerome's translation of the Bible into Latin (the Vulgate) contained four books of Esdras (i.e. Ezra); Jerome's 1 and 2 Esdras were eventually renamed Ezra and Nehemiah; the remaining books each moved up two places in most versions, but the numbering system remains highly confused. The present 1 Esdras takes material from the Book of Chronicles and the Book of Ezra, but ignores Nehemiah entirely; it was probably composed in the period 200–100 BCE.[56] 2 Esdras has no connection with the other Esdras books beyond taking Ezra as its central character. It was probably written soon after the destruction of the Temple by the Romans in 70 CE.

Book of Baruch
The author of the Book of Baruch is traditionally held to be Baruch the companion of Jeremiah, but this is considered unlikely. Some scholars propose that it was written during or shortly after the period of the Maccabees.[57]

1, 2, 3 & 4 Maccabees
Main articles: 1 Maccabees#Transmission.2C language and author, 2 Maccabees#Author, 3 Maccabees#Authorship and historicity, and 4 Maccabees#Authorship and criticism
The anonymous author of 1 Maccabees was an educated Jew and a serious historian; a date around 100 BCE is most likely.[58] 2 Maccabees is a revised and condensed version of a work by an otherwise unknown author called Jason of Cyrene, plus passages by the anonymous editor who made the condensation (called "the Epitomist". Jason most probably wrote in the mid to late 2nd century BCE, and the Epitomist before 63 BCE.[59] 3 Maccabees concerns itself with the Jewish community in Egypt a half-century before the revolt, suggesting that the author was an Egyptian Jew, and probably a native of Alexandria. A date of c.100–75 BCE is "very probable".[60] 4 Maccabees was probably composed in the middle half of the 1st century CE, by a Jew living in Syria or Asia Minor.[61]

Letter of Jeremiah
Main article: Letter of Jeremiah#Author
The Letter of Jeremiah is not by Jeremiah; the author apparently appropriated the name of the prophet to lend authority to his composition. Nor is it by Jeremiah's secretary Baruch, although it appears as the last chapter of Baruch in the Catholic bible and the KJV. Internal evidence points to a date around 317 BCE, with the author possibly a Jew in Palestine addressing Jews of the diaspora.[62]

Prayer of Manasseh
The Prayer of Manasseh presents itself as a prayer from the wicked, but now penitent, king Manasseh (or Manassas) from his exile in Babylon. The actual author is unknown, and the date of composition is probably the 2nd or 1st centuries BCE.[63]

Wisdom of Sirach and the Book of Wisdom
Main articles: Wisdom of Sirach#Author and Book of Wisdom#Date and authorship
Sirach names its author as Jesus ben Sirach. He was probably a scribe, offering instruction to the youth of Jerusalem. His grandson's preface to the Greek translation helps date the work to the first quarter of the 2nd century BCE, probably between 196 BCE and the beginning of the oppression of the Jews by Antiochus IV, who reigned 175–164 BCE.[64] The Wisdom of Solomon is unlikely to be earlier than the 2nd century BCE, and probably dates from 100–50 BCE. Its self-attribution to Solomon was questioned even in the medieval period, and it shows affinities with the Egyptian Jewish community and with Pharisee teachings.[65]

Additions to Esther
Main article: Book of Esther#Additions to Esther
The Book of Esther itself was composed probably around 400 BCE by Jews living in the eastern provinces of the Persian empire and reached its final form by the 2nd century BCE; concerns over the legitimacy of certain passages in the Hebrew text led to the identification of the additions to Esther in the Greek translation of Esther of the late 2nd or early 1st century BCE.[66]

Tobit
Main article: Book of Tobit#Date of composition
Tobit is set in the 8th century BCE and is named after its central character, a pious Jew in exile. The generally recognised date of composition is the early 2nd century BCE.[67]

Judith
The Book of Judith is set in Israel in the time of Nebuchadrezzar, king of Assyria. It has strong Persian elements, which suggests a 4th-century BCE date; it also has strong parallels with the Hasmonean period, which suggests a 2nd-century date. It is typically labeled Pharisaic, but an origin in Sadducee circles has also been suggested.[68]

Additional Psalms
Main article: Psalms#Other psalms
The canonical Psalms contains 150 entries. Psalm 151 is found in most Greek translations, and the Hebrew version was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls.[69] Psalms 152–155 are part of the Syriac Peshitta Bible, some of which were found at Qumran.

MEILYN:
1. The deceased are deceased,
unlike friends/ pastors here who are alive.
2. The Bible says not to contact the deceased.
3. The Bible does give examples of asking the non-deceased to
pray.
4. The Bible does not even hint that the dead have omniscience or anything close to it.

I am not dismissing Marys importance, but the facts are clear: She was not a part of the Gospel message. There are no references to her leading people to Jesus, answering prayers, etc.

The dead cannot pray for you.

you are not a christian even if you claim to be , you don't understand the bible

Pebcak: so whats your point you stated earlier the vote and you posted the stats catholic church is not a one man show or one DADDY GO SHOW some dont agree to it some did agree to it and it boils down to the vote

Why were you first making shakara if you would eventually ask for clarification/

My point is simple: whenever Roman Catholics say they "gave us the Bible" or they "compiled" the Bible in the 4th century, they are lying and sensible and knowledgeable people should not believe them.

vivacious vivi:

For me that is not even the point, after all all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And Jesus himself forgave Peter and picked him as "the rock on which His church will stand". My issue is, they don't even know if its St. Peter's bones!!! It could be the bones of some rich dude or priest. Very funny bunch of people.

My dear, the whites have a tradition of safe keeping historical artifacts. They value this pieces of history so much and they go a great deal of length to verify them.

you must have read about an iceman that they dug up not long ago.. they've even gone as far as identifying his descendants.

that's how funny they can be

Multcolor: those who are in Christ don't die but alive forever

Oh yeah? My Granny died in Christ.I guess I can pray to her,can't I?
I mean,she's alive forever,right?

vivacious vivi: I am sorry but all you catholics that are here trying to justify why a bunch of old bone fragments should be displayed and worshiped need to be have a serious rethink about their faith. I was born catholic like so many others here in my generation so I am not speaking as a "hater" bust someone who saw through the misguided doctrines of the catholic church and got saved. Virgin Mary, St. Peter and all the "saints" wont save you but the Lord Jesus Christ and He alone. Its never to late.

nne.. what happened to your faith? how did you get here..

I cannot type plenty Right now but I'm certainly gonna engage you on your views about Catholic faith soon..