Ukuts gp: just post the link here

kk, I will do that today.

MEILYN: No answer? Hmmmmm, i wont say more than this, that Daniel 12:2 is talking about spiritual resurrection not physical, and i told you what spiritual resurrection means in my post above.. No zombie will rise from the dead with their decayed bodies, now thats fables.

There's physical resurrection,the body and soul will stand before Allah(swt) on the day of Qiymah for recompense.Allah says in the glorious Quran in Surah Yasin 36:78-79 -And he puts forth for Us a parable,and forgets his own creation.He says:Who will give life to these bones when they have rotted away and became dust?
SayO Muhammad SAW)He will give life to them Who created them for the first time! And He is the All-Knower of every creation!

Surah Al-Waqiah 56:47-49 -And they used to say:When we die and become dust and bones,shall we then indeed be resurrected? And also our forefathers?
Say (O Muhammad SAW): (Yes) verily,those of old,and those of later times.

Surah Al-Qiymah 75:3-4 -Does man (a disbeliever) think that We shall not assemble his bones? Yes,We are Able to put together in perfect order the tips of his fingers.There's physical resurrection and not spiritual resurrection.

frosbel:


It is not mentioned in any of the other gospels or epistles, if it was such a huge event I am sure it would have been corroborated all over the new testament.

The general feel is that it is bogus.

You are not being balanced in your submissions. Where the scripture suits your belief you agree with it. Where it doesn't, you start telling stories like the one you told here now. We are talking about what is written in the scriptures and you are telling us what is the general feeling. That's wrong. We don't accept the scripture based on people's feelings.

frosbel:

Yes .

They are not in heaven and nobody is in hell.

All the dead are waiting till resurrection at the second coming of Jesus.

Ignore the lies of religion.

Lies. There are people in hell. Jesus said it in Luke 16: 19-31 and I believe it totally as written. Any other thing you people are saying to this are your own words and they remain irrelevant. I care about what Jesus said not your interpretations.



19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell[d] from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”


The words of Jesus here are very simple and straight forward to understand. Very self explanatory. Anybody who says he is interpreting it for us is not being honest and we reject such interpretations. .

Ukuts gp: There is nobody in hell or heaven till after resurrection.

Lies. These are your words and we can't take it. Luke 16:19-31 are the words of Jesus and that's what we ll take.

MEILYN: No answer? Hmmmmm, i wont say more than this, that Daniel 12:2 is talking about spiritual resurrection not physical, and i told you what spiritual resurrection means in my post above.. No zombie will rise from the dead with their decayed bodies, now thats fables.

spiritual resurrection , not physical

Wow, you need to go back to your bible, Jesus was raised from the dead physically and same will happen to all those who have died from eons ago. To deny physical resurrection from a physical death is to call Jesus a liar.

alexleo:

Lies. These are your words and we can't take it. Luke 16:19-31 are the words of Jesus and that's what we ll take.

so u mean that your great grand father is in hell or heaven now? U forget that it is a parable. The dead will rise up in the last days. Dan 12:2.

John 3:13.
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man which is in heaven.

Ukuts gp: so u mean that your great grand father is in hell or heaven now? U forget that it is a parable. The dead will rise up in the last days. Dan 12:2.

That's the problem we have in christianity today. Everybody is giving his interpretations. Where did the bible say its a parable? If you are an honest follower of Jesus you should take his words as written. You are the one calling it a parable. The scripture NEVER called it a parable. Are you Jesus that said those words? NO. Were you there when Jesus said it? No. Are you the one that wrote it in the scriptures? NO. Sorry we won't take your words. Be honest with bible.

1 thessalonians 4:13-18.
But i would not have you to be ignorant bethren concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15. For this we say unto you by the word of the lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16. For the lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God: and the dead in christ shall rise first:
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the lord.
18. Wherefore Comfort one another with these words.

Ukuts gp: John 3:13.
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man which is in heaven.

explain the above scripture for me

Ukuts gp: John 3:13.
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man which is in heaven.

If you can believe this words of Jesus as written, then you should as well believe his words in Luke 16:19-31 as written. When you start putting your own words, saying its a parable, then you are not being honest. Believe every word that Jesus said as written. He didn't mention heaven in the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Take it as written. They are not your words. You are not Jesus so we can't believe you more than Jesus.

alexleo:

If you can believe this words of Jesus as written, then you should as well believe his words in Luke 16:19-31 as written. When you start putting your own words, saying its a parable, then you are not being honest. Believe every word that Jesus said as written. He didn't mention heaven in the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Take it as written. They are not your words. You are not Jesus so we can't believe you more than Jesus.

Please I know you are more educated than this. Rehashing religious positions does not make you a good bible student. Explain to the brother valid questions he has asked with valid supporting scripture.

You cannot hinge a doctrine on one biblical verse.

Besides you believe in 2 hells which really is nonsense.

Ukuts gp: explain the above scripture for me

I still advise that you be honest in reading the scriptures. That statement of Jesus that you quoted are very simple and self explanatory, what other explanations are you looking for? The words that he spoke in the Luke 16:19-31 that I quoted are clear and self explanatory too. Pls leave it as written. Jesus Never mentioned that Lazarus was in heaven so let the words of Jesus be pls. Again there is no place that Jesus said that no man is in hell. Accept the words of Jesus as written. Your interpretations are not necessary pls.

frosbel:

Please I know you are more educated than this. Rehashing religious positions does not make you a good bible student. Explain to the brother valid questions he has asked with valid supporting scripture.

You cannot hinge a doctrine on one biblical verse.

Besides you believe in 2 hells which really is nonsense.

Pls we are not talking about education here. We are talking about the words of Jesus which I choose to take as written than your interpretations. Those words are very clear to understand. Keep your interpretations and belief to yourself pls. They are irrelevant to me. You are not Jesus, you are frosbel.

alexleo:

I still advise that you be honest in reading the scriptures. That statement of Jesus that you quoted are very simple and self explanatory, what other explanations are you looking for? The words that he spoke in the Luke 16:19-31 that I quoted are clear and self explanatory too. Pls leave it as written. Jesus Never mentioned that Lazarus was in heaven so let the words of Jesus be pls. Again there is no place that Jesus said that no man is in hell. Accept the words of Jesus as written. Your interpretations are not necessary pls.

ur logic is seriously flawed. U are just contradicting urself. Stop telling stories and give clear and lucid explanation to scriptures. U hv nt said anything meaniful.

Ukuts gp: ur logic is seriously flawed. U are just contradicting urself. Stop telling stories and give clear and lucid explanation to scriptures. U hv nt said anything meaniful.

What is the flaw there and what is the contradiction? Did Jesus say that Lazarus is in heaven in that story in Luke 16? show me pls. Is there a place that Jesus said that no man has deecended to hell just like he said about heaven in John 3:13? Pls show me or you forget about it. The words of Jesus clearly explains itself so there is nothing to explain there except if you want to twist it. I don't understand why its hard for you to take the words of Jesus as written. Keep your explanations to yourself. We don't need it. We ll take the simple and clear words of Jesus as written. That's my stand and if you are not ok with it that's your business sir. You are not Jesus so your words doesn't matter to me here.

I ask u again are the dead in heaven or hell as we are debating this now?
Why the ressurection of the dead?
You mean some people are in hell but nobody is in heaven?

Ukuts gp: I ask u again are the dead in heaven or hell as we are debating this now?
Why the ressurection of the dead?
You mean some people are in hell but nobody is in heaven?

Jesus said that no man has ascended to heaven and that's it. He said that Lazarus is in the bossom of Abraham and that's it. I ll stop where Jesus stopped. He said the rich man is in hell and that's it. He never said that no man has descended to hell.Whatever he said is my stand. I don't need your explanations. His words are clear to me.

alexleo:

Jesus said that no man has ascended to heaven and that's it. He said that Lazarus is in the bossom of Abraham and that's it. I ll stop where Jesus stopped. He said the rich man is in hell and that's it. He never said that no man has descended to hell.Whatever he said is my stand. I don't need your explanations. His words are clear to me.

So MAN is stuck somewhere in the middle, neither in Hell or Heaven, maybe in limbo for want of a better word ?

frosbel:

So MAN is stuck somewhere in the middle, neither in Hell or Heaven, maybe in limbo for want of a better word ?

the guy is just making me to laugh. He is just like a wanderer. He is also lukewarm neither hot nor cold. He is also confused.

@Alexleo,

Good day!

Please may I know the sin the rich man committed given your own submission that Jesus's account was not a parable but rather the reality of hell?

More so, would it be possible you throw more light on this concept of hell-fire for the wicked that continually burns forever given that all human beings are presently suffering from the fall of one man-Adam?

Kindly be brief with your assertions albeit based on your own understanding of the bible.

I would equally welcome others' contributions mostly as it relates to this topic.
My most pressing question of late has always been on this issue of heaven/hell-fire theme as so popularized in the christendom.

Permit me to digress and ask further, at the creation, did JHWH promise Adam/Eve 'HEAVEN' as a place of their final abode?
Also,when they(Adam and Eve) ate from the 'mysterious' tree which simply was against the commandment of the Most High God, did the Almighty tell them they would 'rot' in hell-fire forever?

Some people have claimed to visit hell-fire and see how the devil and his gangs(demons) are torturing supposedly dead human beings,one thing is always common about such descriptions that the devil and his demons are very ugly, this I find so funny because from the scriptures, all the angels of God were beautifully 'crafted' and created including the fallen ones. Methinks, modern-day christianity has been infused with traditions of men, and so it makes it so difficult to decipher the truth of the gospel from falsehood. I am sure my observation is not flawless and so it's open to critique.

I need answers from all well meaning individuals because I am interested in knowing more about this hellfire/heaven 'puzzle'.

Thanks and the Almighty God bless you all in Jesus name(Amen). Pax Vobiscum!

.

Ukuts gp: the guy is just making me to laugh. He is just like a wanderer. He is also lukewarm neither hot nor cold. He is also confused.

Feel free to laugh.
The mysteries of the word of God sometimes are laughable when it is beyond human comprehension.
The parting of the sea for the isrealites could be laughable in the eyes man.
Manner from heaven for the isrealites could also be.
Jesus turning water into wine could be laughable.
The three hebrew children thrown into fire without being hurt by the fire is laughable.
Jesus feeding of over five thousand people with five loaves and two fishes with a remnant of twelve baskets is laughable.
Many things in the bible are laughable because they are beyond human comprehension so go ahead and laugh.
But it doesn't change the fact that those things happened. Its not a surprise if you find my believe in the words of Jesus about Lazarus being in Abraham's bossom laughable. Its a free world, laugh. It doesn't change anything.

frosbel:

So MAN is stuck somewhere in the middle, neither in Hell or Heaven, maybe in limbo for want of a better word ?

These are your words. Jesus said bossom of Abraham and that's it. The fact that you can't comprehend it doesn't change anything. There are many things in the scriptures that we can't comprehend as human, but it doesn't change the fact that they are true. The truth of the word of God is not determined by what the human mind can comprehend. Its easy for you to believe the words of Jesus in John 3:13 because it suits your personal belief but so difficult for you to believe the words of the same Jesus in Luke 16:19-31 because its a bitter truth that you can't swallow. You dey try bros. My simple stand remains on the words of Jesus. No addition and no subtraction.

MEILYN: so you mean that verse was added?, so Should we be ignoring some scriptures?

Nobody is in heaven or hell till resurrection

Ukuts gp: Nobody is in heaven or hell till resurrection

That's your personal opinion and its irrelevant to us. We stick to Jesus and his words. He is the only one whose words matters to us.

@nedostic,
We ve gone through this argument over and over again in this forum and we can't keep going round the circle with people telling us what they feel about the scriptures. We are not interested in anybody's feelings or interpretations. The words of Jesus about this issue are so clear and simple to be understood even by a primary one student. Anybody who wants to interprete a clear statement such as those words of Jesus must have a fraudulent agenda and should be rejected totally. Here is one of those threads https://www.nairaland.com/1295967/hell-go-hell-conclusion.
You can go through it. Thanks bros.

frosbel:


It is not mentioned in any of the other gospels or epistles, if it was such a huge event I am sure it would have been corroborated all over the new testament.

The general feel is that it is bogus.

so ur bible is bogus? Hehehe.

Pastor Olu T:

kk, I will do that today.

still waiting for it