Sunday, November 17, 2013

APC wooing IBB, Abubakar, others, a shame- Adebanjo

by Allwell Okpi


Adebanjo

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A leader of the pan-Yoruba socio-political group, Afenifere, Chief Ayo Adebanjo, in this interview with ALLWELL OKPI, speaks on the proposed national conference, emergence of All Progressives Congress and the 2015 elections

As someone who has been a part of Nigeria's political development since independence, what is your impression of the current state of the nation?

Nigeria is not where it is supposed to be and one the reasons is that we are operating a constitution that has many contradictions. Things were not so good before independence; it was tolerable at independence and it worsened after independence. It was tolerable at independence because we had a federal system. If you can recall, the four regions had different constitutions and each region developed at its pace. Even when the country moved from the parliamentary system to the presidential system in 1963, there was no much difference. It was after the coup in 1966 that the army restructured Nigeria into a single-line government and that was when the problem of this country began.

Over the years, there has been the clamour for a national conference as a solution to these problems. Now that President Goodluck Jonathan has set up a committee for the dialogue, some people are opposed to it. Why is it so?

My view is that the opposition to the conference is misplaced. Those that are opposing are not opposed to national conference at such. What they are saying is that the timing is not right. My question is 'when will the time be right?' Some other people say the man (Jonathan) is not sincere; he will not implement the resolutions. But why are we anticipating failure? Principally, nobody in his right senses can oppose national conference because the issue of nationality has been in dispute in this country. If those of us who want the unity of the country are sincere, we should sit down to discuss. Some people say the country will disintegrate and that is the propaganda that the opponents of the national conference are employing. How can a national conference lead to disintegration of the country? You don't go to the roundtable to disintegrate. If you want to disintegrate, you take up arms. Those who are opposed to the national conference are those who want the country to disintegrate. We, the supporters of the national conference, want to sit and iron out the differences between us that can cause conflicts. We have agreed to live together but how? What is the modus operandi of our living together? That is the essence of the conference. And again, a lot of hullabaloo has been on the committee for the conference. In my opinion, by setting up the committee, Jonathan has shown sincerity about the conference. He left modalities of the conference to the committee and he asked them to bring a memorandum. What is the harm in that? Let's get to the conference first. I plead with everybody to take the national conference above partisan politics. What some people are doing is like squabbling to share a cake before it is baked. The conference is to bake the cake of what Nigeria should be. After that, a political party can then contend that it can rule Nigeria better than others under the new constitution.

But another issue is that it is coming too close to the 2015 general elections.

I strongly believe that if it would warrant the postponement of the 2015 general election, I'm in support of it. It is in the interest of the nation for the conference to hold before we go for another election. If you cast your mind back, you will realise that it was the stand of NADECO (National Democratic Coalition) that there should be a national conference before the 1999 elections. It was the then Head of State, Gen. Abdulsalami Abubakar, who said 'no, I'm in a hurry. When you get your government, go and do the conference.' NADECO and Afenifere took that stand because there were a lot of things that were done in the military era that needed to be settled for us to live peaceably. Some people criticised us for taking that position, saying we were playing up to the military. They said the military should be allowed to go whenever they want to go. But those of us who were insisting on the national conference knew what will happen and that is what is happening now. Even those who are saying the time is not right are the ones taking the Federal Government to court, saying they want state police and that the allocation formula is not right.

Some people are also worried that the President said the resolutions of the conference will be forwarded to the National Assembly. Do you this is proper?

I agree with people who are opposed to that. But my point of view is that if you are asking for 10 things and you are given eight, you should hold unto the eight while you fight for the remaining two. Who knows what will happen at the conference? If we were able to convince him (the President) to agree to hold the conference, what makes you think it is impossible for him to be persuaded to accept a referendum, as opposed to taking the resolutions to the National Assembly. In my opinion, by proposing to hold the national conference, Jonathan has shown himself as a listening President. The National Assembly is part of the problem that the national conference is going to solve. In any event, the National Assembly derives its mandate from the people. I believe that if we continue to reason with the President, he will see the unreasonableness of submitting the resolutions of the conference to the National Assembly.

The All Progressives Congress and some other people have insinuated that the President agreed to hold the conference as part of his scheme to get a second term. Do you agree?

I'm surprised that members of the All Progressives Congress are opposing the national conference now. If they agree with it, in what way will it affect the support they would get? The conference is only going to decide what the constitution of the country would be. It is the man who wins the election that will implement the constitution. My argument is if we continue like this, and we hold the elections; even if APC wins, it will continue to apply this same constitution we are complaining about. Let's get the constitution right before we go into the election. The more I think about their opposition to the conference, the more I get sad, especially because of some lawyers and progressives among them. How can you insist on holding election on a constitution that you have agreed in the past that it is fraudulent and needs to be changed? How are you sure that the presidential system of government we are operating now will be upheld at the conference? How are you sure that Nigerians will not opt for a parliamentary system? I don't see how the conference would disturb the APC, unless it has a hidden agenda. Even if it is true that Jonathan has a reason for holding the conference now, why can't we hold him to his words?

When the Action Congress of Nigeria, merged with the Congress for Progressive Change and the All Nigeria Peoples Party, some people said it was originally the idea of late Chief Obafemi Awolowo. As someone who was close to Awolowo, what's your opinion on that?

They are just playing on semantics. They are exploiting the name Awolowo. There is no doubt that Awolowo said at the right time, the progressives will meet. He meant that eventually, those with like minds will meet. The question I put to them is: Are the people in the APC of like minds? Those talking about being progressives have bastardised the word 'progressive.' They are saying that the APC is what Chief Awolowo was referring to in a statement he made at the last conference of the Unity Party of Nigeria in Abeokuta, where he said, 'If we are related, we shall meet' and that at a time the best of the opposition will meet to form a government. But are the people in the APC progressives? I go further to particularise: (former Head of State, Gen.) Muhammadu Buhari (retd.), who is a possible candidate of the APC, his selling point is his purity. I can vouch for him that he is incorruptible. But from his antecedence, is he a progressive? Tom Ikimi is one of those who organised the APC, is he a progressive? That was the man who was Gen. Sani Abacha's foreign secretary. And when (former Ogoni leader) Ken Saro-Wiwa and others were killed, he was denying it in a foreign country, where he was, that they were not killed. Also, the people who said they are progressives are now trying to woo the man that caused the problem in the country; that is Gen. Ibrahim Babangida. When the APC was registered, some of it leaders went to show the certificate to Babangida. And now, all their leaders went to woo Babangida. What has Babangida done to qualify to be a progressive? This is a man who conducted a free and fair election and annulled it. And till today, he has not told the country why he annulled it. Now, the people who were opposed to the annulment and were shouting June 12 are now telling him 'come along with us.' I find it difficult to reconcile these. I want to see politics of issues. Does it mean they shout the slogans in vain? Babangida, who was scared of coming to the South-West, is the person that the people who said they are Yoruba leaders are now wooing. The man who denied the Yoruba the right to govern and killed their sons is the man they are inviting to the APC. And they want Yoruba people to vote for them? I weep for some people. I want the leaders of the APC to think again, I won't mention their names. Those of them who were with us shouting NADECO, demanding the reinstatement of MKO Abiola's mandate, and within 20 years, they are saying the man who did that evil that led to Abacha and led to Olusegun Obasanjo, should join them.

In relation to this, some people have touted the APC leader, Bola Tinubu, as Awolowo's replacement when it comes to political leadership of the Yoruba people. Is he one of the people you once referred to as 'those who say they are Yoruba leaders'?

The reason I didn't want to mention the names of Bola Tinubu and (APC National Chairman) Bisi Akande is that I don't want it to sound personal. But the issue is on them. These are the people with whom we fought the military as NADECO. Tinubu was abroad, we were here fighting Babangida, fighting Abacha.We won the democracy and they now want to put Nigerians in the hands of these people who killed our leaders. Honestly, I don't know how some people think. I want them to justify themselves on this. It was under (former Head of State, Gen.) Abdulsalami Abubakar (retd.) that Abiola was killed in his possession. The truth has not been known till today.It was under the same system that Abiola's wife, Kudirat, was killed. I'm sorry, I don't share their view. Get my point very well: I want these Yoruba leaders - Akande, Tinubu, and others - to convince me, on ideological basis, what they saw in Babangida, Ikimi, Abubakar and others they are now wooing to join them as progressives. What have they done to show that the evil they did to us has been undone? It's a shame. I believe, may be, before long, they will have a rethink. Even Buhari; it was when he was Head of State that he said lecturers in Unity Schools should return to the South. What has he done ever since to show that he is a changed person? I respect Buhari for probity. There is nobody in the APC that can match him on probity. For progressiveness, no. He is known as a religious fundamentalist. He still has a long way to go to show that he has purged himself of all the things that are anti-Nigeria.

Looking at our democracy, the APC is emerging as a credible alternative to the ruling Peoples Democratic Party. Can you compare both parties?

I have no good word for the PDP. They are intolerable. As somebody who fought for independence and has been on the scene from the time of Awolowo, if I say throw away the PDP, with the composition of the APC, am I sure that it would be better? They (APC) have been inconsistent in their policies; that is not what I stand for. I can't go from frying pan to fire. I believe the PDP should be wiped out but my fear is that I have no confidence in the APC for the reasons I have stated. The good elements in the APC have mixed with the rotten elements we have been fighting before now, how can the party produce a good product? The ACN was doing fine. Tinubu did well by wiping out the PDP from the South-West but after getting rid of PDP, what next?

Considering the role Afenifere played in the return of democracy in 1999, one wonders why its influence waned drastically. What really happened?

Afenifere's influence has waned because those who we trusted like Tinubu, Akande and others, have not been performing the way Afenifere wants them to perform. Afenifere will not join hands with the people they are joining hands with. You can form a new party but not with the people who caused the problem of the country without any evidence of change. That is my stand. It is clearly on principle; I have nothing personal against them at all. Tinubu and Akande became governors on the platform of the Alliance for Democracy, as progressive governors, fighting against this evil. But now, what are they doing? After using the goodwill of Afenifere; the goodwill of progressiveness to get into office, with whom are they now collaborating? Are they doing what Awolowo would do? Awolowo was in opposition to the Federal Government on principle for several years. He did not join any coalition or the NPC (Northern People Congress) because he believed that their policies were not the same with his. To me, what the APC is doing is not a coalition; it is a gang up against PDP because the antecedence of the people in the APC is not progressive. The people they are using to swell the membership of the APC are not like minds. They just want to have the majority to defeat the PDP. It's making me sad because we all struggled to get rid of the military government, and now that are out of power, they are still controlling us. We were stupid enough to have voted for (former President Olusegun) Obasanjo, who was brought into office by Babangida. They were the people who influenced us to vote for Obasanjo and they are now organising to replace Jonathan with their choice.

What is your impression about Jonathan's administration?

He needs to improve a lot. There has been a lot of in-fighting with Jonathan. It's alright to say he is bad but he came there four years ago and he has not been finding it easy. For the eight years that Obasanjo was there, what was happening? Let us also note that the minority should also aspire to assume the highest office in the nation. Considering the number of years that the northerners held sway after independence, why should they still be struggling to get the presidency in 2015. They want to make it an issue between North and South. North and South do not constitute Nigeria. Nigeria is constituted of several nationalities that were forcibly amalgamated in 1914. Britain didn't colonise us as North and South. They colonised the Yoruba, the Igbo, the Hausa, the Ijaw, the Itsekiri, and other nationalities. These nationalities were forced together. If they now have the chance to express their freedom, why should they not have it? And the mistake by this government is the plan to celebrate the centenary anniversary of the amalgamation; our forced enslavement. Apart from the economy of scale of coming together, what have we gained since 1914? It's been more of strife and that is because they mixed the unmixable. That is why we need to sit down at the national conference and resolve all conflicts.

It seems you are fighting both the government and the opposition.

My fighting of both the government and the opposition is based on principle. The APC is not fighting Jonathan based on principle, ideology or philosophy, because the people that are joining them are those who have been in government and in the PDP. What I see is that if the APC wins the election, there will be in-fighting just as it is happening now in PDP. The problem with the PDP is that incongruous people came together to form party and now they have conflict of interests. If the APC wins election, there will be conflict of interests because there are issues that the components of party have not agreed on. Money has taken over the politics of the country. The genuine people in the APC know what I'm telling you, but the people leading them have the money. It was not in dispute that the ACN was a one-man party. Is that the democracy we want? How many candidates of the ACN were candidates of the people and not the candidate of an individual; be it at the local, regional or federal level? At the age of 85, I cannot pretend. If I see people who claim to be working with the principles of Awolowo but doing something different, I won't say because they are in government I won't talk so that they will give me government advantage. It is too late for me. I can die anytime from now. It is for the young people to examine what they are doing. They want power; if it is a rogue or a dictator that can put them into power, they don't mind. That is not Awolowo. Examine all those governors they are wooing from PDP, are they the character Awolowo would approve? They should think twice.

Source: http://odili.net/news/source/2013/nov/17/825.html

Atleast the Yorubas have elders who can tell the truth without missing words.

Idoh bale ni mo wa o baba....those who have ears let them hear and those who can read let them read this and pass the message on.

This elder was 32 years old in 1960 that alone means he know what he is saying.

Nigeria is a mixture of the unmixable, different nationalities (yoruba,hausa,igbo,ijaw etc) forcefully algamated in 1914, remember baba was born probably 14 years after that. Nationality is used to describe someone from a nation and a nation can be a country,saying that, every part of nigeria now, that is speaking yoruba or any language similar to yoruba is meant to belong to yoruba nation, same for other languages too.

This entity called nigeria is not working and we can all see and feel it. if we go back to regional government there wont be tribal sentiments, if anything it will be within tribes and that is easy to sort out amongst themselves and every region live within their means.

noted but do you expect me to read all these?

bolayei: Idoh bale ni mo wa o baba....those who have ears let them hear and those who can read let them read this and pass the message on.

This elder was 32 years old in 1960 that alone means he know what he is saying.

Nigeria is a mixture of the unmixable, different nationalities (yoruba,hausa,igbo,ijaw etc) forcefully algamated in 1914, remember baba was born probably 14 years after that. Nationality is used to describe someone from a nation and a nation can be a country,saying that, every part of nigeria now, that is speaking yoruba or any language similar to yoruba is meant to belong to yoruba nation, same for other languages too.

This entity called nigeria is not working and we can all see and feel it. if we go back to regional government there wont be tribal sentiments, if anything it will be within tribes and that is easy to sort out amongst themselves and every region live within their means.

I was born 33 years ago and I share his sentiments hook, line and sinker! I am a Yoruba man and I don't believe one bit in Tinubu and this APC nonsense. Tinubu is everything Awolowo is not.

The man was spot on on Buhari. Maybe he has a good grade in probity but his animalistic tendencies still remain. Nigeria should never live under his bigotry again, never!

Beautiful and very insight-sive interview, through and through.... And to think I passed it several times without reading..

Gospel truth.

These so-called "progressives" are a joke. Any "big name" in Nigerian politics (regardless of his corrupt past/reputation/record) can become a "progressive" if he grants the APC audience and shows even the faintest interest in their party. From roguish characters like Amaechi to the other disgruntled PDP "G-7" governors to PDP rejects like Oyinlola to WORLD RENOWNED looters like IBB. . . .they are all "progressives" as long as they sympathise with/or identify with/or grant audience to the APC! PDP is a bad party, but its members are not bad per se. They become miraculously "good" when they sympathise with the APC.

Ignorant Naija masses don suffer.

Ayo Adebanjo is another of the FEW Yoruba men that I can trust. His integrity is still intact.
Well said sir.

This guy talks like an endangered specie.Who is he?

Like somebody like Fela,Solarin or Achebe will talk.

Its only a simpleton and someone not in tune with the political happenings in the SW that will be fooled by all the diatribes of Pa Ayo Adebanjo who was the political godfather of Otunba Gbenga Daniels in Ogun state while he held sway

All this discredited 'Afenifere in the Morning' and 'I never chop' politicians at night should go and park well.....

What I know is that they are just foaming in the mouth owing to their loss of respect and power after the 1st term of the AD Governors most of whom were rigged out save Tinubu

Was it not them that bartered with OBJ to deliver him for the 2nd term while opening up their own flanks in 2003? And the moment OBJ got into power he shut the door against them having settled them massively before the election( knowing them as ethnic irredentists and professional blackmailers!)

Now that they are hungry again,they have found a willing ally in GEJ who is jittery and trying to make in-road into the SW having realised that the North is a dead end and knowing fully well that the votes of the SE and SS can never deliver him the 2nd term hence have been seriously oiling their media propaganda and have been sold the idea that they can help him tackle Tinubu while they are smiling to the bank

Even if Tinubu were not a saint,he doesn't pretend like these political spent forces

These political saints who preach politics of Tribalism and Ethnic segregation have indeed forgotten that even the reverred Awolowo was prepared to forge a political alliance with his foremost political rival and bitterest enemy then something that was unthinkable before, The Zik of Africa and was even prepared to serve as the VP candidate in order to oust Shagari, making the media to refer to Zik as 'The Beautiful Bride of Nigeria's Politics,only that the deal fell through,so a serious politician know that if your political interest align with even that of your sworn enemy then you sure can forge an alliance as there is no law that says enemies can't become friends later in life!

So it is the height of political naivety to read puritanical,catholitic and sanctimonious meanings to issues of politics because SAINTS don't play politics!

In politics,the law that applies is 'keep your friends close and your enemies closer!

If they think they are the real progressives,let them go ahead and float all the dead partties they have tried to use to masquerade as tiger politicians and contest elections rather than acting as paper tigers! I get am before no be property!

These are people who can't win even a single polling booth in their wards but only shouts on the pages of the Newspapers!

The ethno-tribal political style of the 50-80s don't suffice again whereby a yoruba man will not want to align with an Igbo man and an Igbo man will loath an Hausa man politically.

Tthese days bridges have to be built even over shark-infested water and dirty political canals even if it means holding your nose from feeling the effect of the stench oozing out it

My humble summation is just that these old Afenifere brigade are not serious for any real politicking as such,they only want to negotiate or trade with GEJ using the SW and their past glory to boot