idnoble135:
Very well, we should not be in a haste to discard anything. We should test it first.

Alwaystrue:
Paul says those in the five fold ministry are gifts to the church:

Ephesans 4:11-13
11 Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.
12 Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ.
13 This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.

So we are to test every spirit and let us be led right to the ministers that are of God.

shdemidemi: I did not in anyway talk about teaching specifically either.

what makes u feel whatever revelation you get about anyone is of God?

Alwaystrue:
Paul says those in the five fold ministry are gifts to the church:

Ephesans 4:11-13
11 Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.
12 Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ.
13 This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.

So we are to test every spirit and let us be led right to the ministers that are of God.

Alwaystrue:
Paul says those in the five fold ministry are gifts to the church:

Ephesans 4:11-13
11 Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.
12 Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ.
13 This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.

So we are to test every spirit and let us be led right to the ministers that are of God.

idnoble135:
I get you. The original post was not talking in essence about teaching , he was talking about if a prophet says. I can get a revelation as about the problem some one is facing for whom I have been interceding. That does no harm. No one should teach on what any one feels but what is in the Word.

[quote author=Bidam]Nice quote ma'am. The true test actually comes from four points i noticed.

1.Those in a position of authority over God's people must not work to become great ministers or great ministries.

2.God did not call the fivefold to be kings but servants.

3. The purpose of the fivefold is to put saints into their ministry.

4.The position of ministry is to be teachers and instructors in the king's house

idnoble135:
I understand this, i was just presenting the direct opposite view of what the OP posted.

Alwaystrue:

@Frosbel,
For those who decid to stir up the gift of God in them will do it for the church. Not all have these gifts for not all are teachers or prophets and some are still babies or babies who refuse to grow and still need to be pushed for the whole aim is to grow mature men.

frosbel:

I did not use the word prophet , however most prophecies in early church were for the general benefit of the church and not directed at individuals. And these prophecies were made in the open.

No man should stand in the place of Jesus in another man's life, let Jesus do the leading.

idnoble135:
No man is taking the place of Christ, else he be an anti Christ. The whole thing you are saying is as though Jesus would not lead a believer through another believer.

idnoble135:
I don't feel, I often know. In very many instances, i check the Word if it is line with the Word. And it often comes because I was praying for the person in question.

Demain_man: Why then does the Holy Spirit interprete the bible different for different individuals? for example;

Oyaks say self service is not a sin, another anointed mog will say it is a sin (both under Holy Spirit)
One mog say it is ok to have 'thus say the lord' mog, while another one says it is not right (Both operating under Holy Spirit)

Are there different types of Holy Spirit? With which 'Holy Spirit' do we test these things?

Na wa!

Frosbel: No believer is in authority over another believer.

[quote author=idnoble135]
[color=#990000]
Hebrew 13:7
Obey your leaders, and [b]accept their authority. [/b]

Ray C. Stedman wrote the following in his commentary on Hebrews:

Several things should be noted about Hebrews 13:17 and 1Thess 5:12. The word "obey" comes from the Greek peitho, "to persuade." The present imperative middle form, used here, means "permit oneself to be persuaded," "yield to persuasion." It definitely does not mean to blindly follow orders. The phrase those who are over you in the Lord should simply be "your leaders in the Lord." There is no thought of being "over" anyone, or others being "under" a leader. The authority of a Christian leader is not command authority but servant leadership. A servant has authority, as Jesus said he had, because he awakens by his loving service a desire to comply. Or he is persuasive because of his logic or knowledge.

frosbel:

Absolutely, if we do not stir up the gifts they will be of no value to anyone.

However, one of the main reasons why many believers are immature is because of the clergy / laity divide. In other words the 'baby' believers remain in the pews because they get the impression that the pastor and his team possess all the special gifts and so must be listened to , followed and obeyed.

The moment we tear this class system down of clergy and laity, there will be nowhere for anybody to hide, everybody must have and operate a ministry.

Alwaystrue:
No. Many reasons why people are immature is because they refuse to study the word of God and stir up their gifts.
People don't study so how can they even be bereans? People don't even know the Word of God and the ministry of Jesus, so how do they even know if their ministers are following Christ as Paul said?
We have access to the Word of God and the bible, but how many study?
Laying blames at doorsteps is not my thing, let us look inward and purge ourselves of laziness in study then we will not be tossed by every wind of doctrine.

Alwaystrue:
No. Many reasons why people are immature is because they refuse to study the word of God and stir up their gifts.
People don't study so how can they even be bereans? People don't even know the Word of God and the ministry of Jesus, so how do they even know if their ministers are following Christ as Paul said?
We have access to the Word of God and the bible, but how many study?
Laying blames at doorsteps is not my things, let us look inward and purge ourselves of laziness in study.

frosbel:

and to the bolded I say :

"For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." - Romans 8:14

idnoble135:
Very well.
See this, Paul writes to believers in corinth and he is addressing contemporary issues they were facing. The same point i want to ask is this, the people paul was writing to were saints. Why will Paul write to give them direction if they simply should ask the Holy Ghost and could get the answer? In 1 cor 14:38, we read thus:
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I
write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Here we see Paul, a believer, a human being who under divine leading is providing guidance to the corinthians.
Do you get this?

shdemidemi:

The bolded does it, as long as what you are saying is in line with the scriptures. I am sure your revelations would always mean that the person you are praying for gets comfort. We must know it isn't always so with God.

Agabus being a prophet also told Paul what wld happen to him in Jerusalem. If we were Paul, we might take such revelation as the will of God and stay put but the will of God for Paul was to go to Jerusalem and die.
Acts 21
13 Then Paul answered, “What do you mean by weeping and breaking my heart? For I am ready not only to be bound, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.” 14 So when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, “The will of the Lord be done.

frosbel:

You nailed it with the word Guidance , not leadership -

Ray C. Stedman wrote the following in his commentary on Hebrews:

Several things should be noted about Hebrews 13:17 and 1Thess 5:12. The word "obey" comes from the Greek peitho, "to persuade." The present imperative middle form, used here, means "permit oneself to be persuaded," "yield to persuasion." It definitely does not mean to blindly follow orders. The phrase those who are over you in the Lord should simply be "your leaders in the Lord." There is no thought of being "over" anyone, or others being "under" a leader. The authority of a Christian leader is not command authority but servant leadership. A servant has authority, as Jesus said he had, because he awakens by his loving service a desire to comply. Or he is persuasive because of his logic or knowledge.

DrummaBoy: The practice of having a head in a church is a veritable one. The problem now is what is this head appointed to do? The five fold ministry as we see in Ephesians 4 is a duty and not an office! They are to bring God's people to maturity!! If after years of discipleship, the people under a Pastor still need you to be "thus saying the Lord" to them, they cannot be said to have come to maturity and you have failed in your ministry.

This ministries are not instituted in the church in the sense of heading and that is why Peter warns against Lording it over the flock of the Lord; rather they are there to help God's people to grow.

Frosbel, asked earlier, who is daddy G O? In my article were criticized the 3KM by 3KM church auditorium the Redeemed Church is planning on the express (Lagos-Ibadan), I made it clear that if Daddy G O had been doing what he is supposed to be doing in all these years of ministering on the express, there will not be the need to continue to have people flock there every month for Holy Ghost night. The fact that he and others like him have failed in the ministry committed to hands, turning the ministry to a place where they are G O, more than a place were they should mature saints under them, is the reason why they need such a big auditorium today.

Christian ministry is service to the church and not a place to enjoy privilege or revel in position.

idnoble135:
What you are saying is the same thing I'm saying. Read the scripture again, it was only a confirmation of what the Spirit already told Paul. And no where did the prophet ask Paul to stay away from Jerusalem.

Gombs:

How dare u!? Have you seared your conscience this much?

That man has more than 1miillion brethren in Nigeria alone..not to talk of around the world. You think its by his power and might? You think its by his senses?

You that can't gather 20pple (or even ten) for a bible study class and yet you call him a failure.

Gombs:

How dare u!? Have you seared your conscience this much?

That man has more than 1miillion brethren in Nigeria alone..not to talk of around the world. You think its by his power and might? You think its by his senses?

You that can't gather 20pple (or even ten) for a bible study class and yet you call him a failure.

Gombs:

How dare u!? Have you seared your conscience this much?

That man has more than 1miillion brethren in Nigeria alone..not to talk of around the world. You think its by his power and might? You think its by his senses?

You that can't gather 20pple (or even ten) for a bible study class and yet you call him a failure.

frosbel:


The people do not belong to this MAN , they are not his, it is unfortunate that they have submitted to a mere man instead of Jesus, no wonder there is so much confusion.

shdemidemi:

The devil can give all these things too bro. The voice of the people isn't necessarily the voice of God.

Gombs:

How dare u!? Have you seared your conscience this much?

That man has more than 1miillion brethren in Nigeria alone..not to talk of around the world. You think its by his power and might? You think its by his senses?

You that can't gather 20pple (or even ten) for a bible study class and yet you call him a failure.

shdemidemi:

I never said the prophet told Paul to stay away. I only said anyone not sold out to the gospel of God would intrinsically think twice hearing they were going to die on the mission.

The truth remains that no man, no prophet sees from the angle God sees from. Someone might say they see you getting a job some where but they might not see the accident that might take your life on your way there.

Hence, when anyone say they see anything we can take it on board but such revelation should not automatically take precedence.