How much culture can you learn in say . . 2 years of living in Nigeria, scratch that . . . Lagos?  Discipline maybe.  You learn to interact with a bunch of crooks while living in a depressive economy. Culture is a living breathing thing that changes continuously.  The culture of yesterday differs from today's.  People just place way too much importance on speaking the native language.  why should i have to bother if my kids don't have to function in that environment?


I still plan on taking my kids back there so whatever.

@deepzone

The issues you have raised are not unique to yoruba kids in the U.S., it applies to all U.S. kids

Tonim:


@deepzone

The issues you have raised are not unique to yoruba kids in the US., it applies to all US. kids

Thank you for finally saying what was on my mind  . And not just U.S. kids.



_{blah blah, yoruba kids are unruly because they are living in America. bullshit hiss}

@post
You don't have to take your kids back to naija. Just make sure it's only your native language you speak to them, in and out of the house. That's what my mom did with us.

I find it very uncomfortable leaving my kids in Nigeria, even if it's with a family member. My children stays with me, even if I have to force them to learn it. Sure they can visit Nigeria once in a while, but to live there with another family? Very uncomfortable for me

It's uncomfortable but sometimes those hard sacrifices pay off big time. But I understand your plight.

@deepzone

The issues you have raised are not unique to yoruba kids in the US., it applies to all US. kids

Like I said before, I'm looking out for my own. It's not tribalism or nothing but I believe that charity begins at home.

@post
You don't have to take your kids back to naija. Just make sure it's only your native language you speak to them, in and out of the house. That's what my mom did with us.

I find it very uncomfortable leaving my kids in Nigeria, even if it's with a family member. My children stays with me, even if I have to force them to learn it. Sure they can visit Nigeria once in a while, but to live there with another family? Very uncomfortable for me

The initial premise of this thread was talking about the moral decadence and not necessarily Yoruba proficiency. I mean, your child can speak and write yoruba very well but the western influence will still make him/her become unruly and disrespectful. Honestly, if your kids attend high school here in America, there is no limit as to what they can do. Very few kids here survive the influence of high school baptism and in most cases, their parents worked a little harder to be there for them.

How much culture can you learn in say . . 2 years of living in Nigeria, scratch that . . . Lagos? Discipline maybe. You learn to interact with a bunch of crooks while living in a depressive economy.

Roflmao; Depressive economy is part of the culture na? If your son opens the fridge and couldn't even find "pure" water, he'll be forced to appreciate what you've been doing for him in America.

HCH3COO:

Thank you for finally saying what was on my mind .

You are very welcome !

What deepzone fails to realize is that the US environment makes it really difficult to instill the values and discipline
yorubas (and even others) are noted for.

When you are raising a kid in an environment where most kids talk back to adults and are very unruly because they know you
can't touch them, chances are your kids are likely to follow suit regardless the culture/value/discipline of the kids'
native parents. So, we should leave yoruba out of this abeg.

The initial premise of this thread was talking about the moral decadence and not necessarily Yoruba proficiency. I mean, your child can speak and write yoruba very well but the western influence will still make him/her become unruly and disrespectful. Honestly, if your kids attend high school here in America, there is no limit as to what they can do. Very few kids here survive the influence of high school baptism and in most cases, their parents worked a little harder to be there for them.

Like I usually say, it all depends on how the parents are handling the kids.

There are some Nigerians, including myself, that attended High Schools here, yet, still maintain their "culture" and its mentality.
Sometimes, it has to do with the efforts that the parent and the child puts in
Even some my cousins that were born here love everything Nigerian. (Most times, I think they're just doing too much!!! )

It's uncomfortable but sometimes those hard sacrifices pay off big time. But I understand your plight.

LOL, Yea.
I just prefer my kids with me, where their needs are met whenever they need. Where they're comfortable etc.
maybe it's just me

I really don't think taking a Child back to Nigeria will make them respectful na!!. I have heard of several cases and one happened to a family friend of mine. She went back to Nigeria with her Children for them to start High School but at the end, due to bad influence and their inability to get along with their peers, it failed and she was still faced with what she was trying to avoid, the issue of culture and respect. On the other hand My Aunt children here are just as respectful as their Nigerian counterpart with proper upbringing.I'm not trying to be religious here but i still believe our religion has a lot to do with our norms and the way we live our lives, remember the Bible said " Train a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not turn from it" It still goes down to how well you train your children which has to do with the attention you give to them and all that but not the country . you could train your children any where and they could be disrespectful and vice versa.

dreeldee, I completely agree with you.

What deepzone fails to realize is that the US environment makes it really difficult to instill the values and discipline
yorubas (and even others) are noted for.

Isn't that the same reason why i suggest you take them home where your folks will be free to whip him/her at will? I mean what's the point in keeping them here, pampering and nurturing them when the chances of them being useless is very very high. There's been cases of high class surgeons that grew up in Ajegunle but you wouldn't want to risk raising your child there b/c the success rate is very low unless you count "gutter sniffing" as success.

DeepZone:

Isn't that the same reason why i suggest you take them home where your folks will be free to whip him/her at will? I mean what's the point in keeping them here, pampering and nurturing them when the chances of them being useless is very very high. There's been cases of high class surgeons that grew up in Ajegunle but you wouldn't want to risk raising your child there b/c the success rate is very low unless you count "gutter sniffing" as success.

Bia DeepZone,
Take time o . I was born and raised in Ajegunle (AJ for life!), and I don't like that kind of disparaging remark about my "hometown". I know a lot of people look down on AJ, but AJ has brought out more stars than V.I. and Ikoyi combined! The problem we're facing now in AJ is that after some of our boyz and gilrz make it, they don't come back to invest at "home", but in the last 15 years that has been changing. AJ for life!!!

Ruby_Pearl:

Like I usually say, it all depends on how the parents are handling the kids.

There are some Nigerians, including myself, that attended High Schools here, yet, still maintain their "culture" and its mentality.
Sometimes, it has to do with the efforts that the parent and the child puts in
Even some my cousins that were born here love everything Nigerian. (Most times, I think they're just doing too much!!! )

I don't believe in making decisions based on exceptions, I believe in decisions mostly based on the highest possibility.

You might have gone to High School in the US and still maintained your culture, but the vast majority of kids that do go to High School in US would not.

Ruby_Pearl:

LOL, Yea.
I just prefer my kids with me, where their needs are met whenever they need. Where they're comfortable etc.
maybe it's just me

Life challenges are very good for humans development. Human beings are made to desire challenge or else they subconciously feel disillusioned.

I would only cater for the needs of my kids, the wants? they would have to work for.

dreeldee:

I really don't think taking a Child back to Nigeria will make them respectful na!!. I have heard of several cases and one happened to a family friend of mine. She went back to Nigeria with her Children for them to start High School but at the end, due to bad influence and their inability to get along with their peers, it failed and she was still faced with what she was trying to avoid, the issue of culture and respect. On the other hand My Aunt children here are just as respectful as their Nigerian counterpart with proper upbringing.I'm not trying to be religious here but i still believe our religion has a lot to do with our norms and the way we live our lives, remember the Bible said " Train a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not turn from it" It still goes down to how well you train your children which has to do with the attention you give to them and all that but not the country . you could train your children any where and they could be disrespectful and vice versa.

Dreeldee, I would think this would be the exception in cases of people taking their children back home.

If I was to take a wild guess, I wouldn't be surprised the woman in question maintained her Western Behind perspective in her household in Nigeria and probably sent the kids to some school for rich kids instead of immensing the kids in the local setting.

That was just a guess, in most cases (if not all) I have seen, the children not only learn good values but also start preaching it based on the evidence of how it changed their lives and perspective.

RichyBlacK:

Bia DeepZone,
Take time o . I was born and raised in Ajegunle (AJ for life!), and I don't like that kind of disparaging remark about my "hometown". I know a lot of people look down on AJ, but AJ has brought out more stars than V.I. and Ikoyi combined! The problem we're facing now in AJ is that after some of our boyz and gilrz make it, they don't come back to invest at "home", but in the last 15 years that has been changing. AJ for life!!!

.

Ah, Egbon, sorry Sir!

I no wan mess with you o. Na you own this area, alaye. 

^{I dey joke}

chiogo:

@poster, I don't really get your point. We're talking about kids abroad being disrespectful, right?? Correct me if am wrong. What makes you think that sending the kid to Nigeria would make them 'respectful'?.
  All Nigerian-bred kids are not respectful, y'know. Just like all American-bred kids are not disrespectful. It's up to the parents to teach their kids what's right and wrong. Being respectful is an individual thing, it rarely has anything to do with where you live. Yes, we know Nigerians are usually 'respectful' mostly because they have to, not because they want to. That's one reason I love America - you don't have to do anything you don't want to do.
  While in Nigeria, I saw two young girls see an elderly woman and as a sign of greeting or whatever, they knelt down on d dusty ground. Once they stood up, they whispered some horrible things about her. Am like 'wtf?'. Really, why do they have to pretend?. Is that the kind of respect or culture you're talking about.
  Well, America is not such a great place to raise a kid but it also has its advantages that sometimes, I change my mind about sending my kids(when I have them) to Nigeria for their education. For example, kids are not whupped or flogged in schools here. Who likes their kids 2 be flogged by some frustrated teachers? Thanks, I'd rather do it myself.
  As for the language thingy, I know kids who were born here but speak their languages. I have cousins in Nigeria who were born, bred, and still living in naija yet they cannot speak igbo. Respect has to do with the way one is brought up not where you live. Parents should not shy away from their resposibilities by taking what they think is the easy way out, which is sending their kids to Nigeria for education. Some might actually get worse in Nigeria without their parents watching over them. Hey, it does work for some people but it's def. not the only option to raise a kid well.


Pheww, that was long! Forgive me, y'all. I get carried away. And am not even yoruba, oops!

Chiogo, I think you are making a fundamental mistake in thinking that in the present world we live in today, that parents are the biggest influence on their kids behaviour.

The fundamental influence on kids in the setting of their environment which includes TV, peers, parents, intrusive social governance (can't smack kids) etc. The most risque in the western world in my opinion is TV. The crap kids are being fed is scary. Parents have to compete in the labour market to sustain a living so have less time to influence kids, so their influence has wained. Kid's watch low lifes like 50 cent on TVs in the house, in their bedrooms and on the net almost 24/7 and get sucked into the unrealistic glamour lifestyle.

Go and ask kids in the UK what they want to be in future and see what proportion of girls would say "model" and proportion of boys would say "footballer". You think they learn this from their parents?

Go to Nigeria and ask the same question.

The environment matters, hence where one lives matters, as kids would have to deal with a variety of influences to shape their thinking and behaviour.

A child that grows up in Idaho is going to be different from a child that grows up in New York.

There is no chance in hell I am bringing up a child in the god-forsaken UK and US.

I would rather have the 2 girls in your example than have kids that openly insult elderly people and don't even mind slapping them as I see in the UK.

OmG! @ Sagamite, tell me you were joking in ur post.

Last time I checked, there are TVs and cables in Nigeria. Even people without TVs know who 50 cent is. Are you kidding me?? I live in the US but I rarely watch TV. Why? Cuz I don't have time. Yes, we got cable and I watch BET when I have the time, it's pure entertainment for me. None of those people are my role models or anything. I also don't wanna be a model even though I watch Tyra banks and the rest. A modelling agency once called my house but I told them I'm not interested because it's not the kind of career I want, not that there's even anything wrong with being a model anywayz.

You can watch as much TV as you want but it can only influence you negatively if you let it. It still boils down to your parents, believe it or not. FYI, not all parents in the states work so many hours that they don't have time for their kids. Just like not all Nigerian parents who don't work many hours or work at all pay attention to their kids. Just going to school is enough for a kid to be negatively influenced. I understand that. But Nigerian schools aren't that safe either. I've schooled in Nigeria too and there were teenage pregnancies, etc in ur so-called naija. Here at my high school, I know a couple of girls who got knocked up. They're not my friends or anything. People laughed when they heard she was pregnant. So, just because something is common in America doesn't mean it's encouraged or embraced. I got to learn that. There's so many crazy things in America because it's a free country - u choose how 2 live ur life. Only ur parents can tell u what 2 do. And if u choose not 2 listen 2 them, whose fault is that?

As for ur comment about kids being rude to elders. That is a typical Nigerian talk. Nigerians believe that once you're an elder,you're never wrong and it's ok to stomp on people and it won't be considered bad because you're an 'elder'. I'm sorry but that's bullshit. And about you preferring hypocrites, that's ur choice. As for me, I'll rather raise kids who keep it real. Hypocrites pretend for so long that when they let it out, it leaves everyone shocked.

Believe it or not, lots of Nigerians living in Nigeria are already influenced by the TV you're talking about. They've adopted everything American - the hip hop dressing, american accent, etc. I don't know the Nigeria you're talking about but there's now a tiny difference between naija TV and that of america. Nigerian videos now have half-naked women on them, there are now Nigerian rappers, etc. So, what difference are you gonna make by sending ur kid there? I bet u that lots of Nigerians living in Nigeria listen to American music more than those here. I'd rather stick to the devil I know, if u get my point.

I can see you are quite focussed on how things affect you not about the aggregate effect on your society. There is no awareness of village raising up a child vs nuclear family child raising of different environments and how that impacts behaviours (including offspring rebellion).

Since you said you are still in High School, I take it you are quite young and there is still alot of things you have to observe which you won't be able to pick up now. There is a lot of Psychology, Sociology and Anthropology points you would pick up with age plus wisdom. 

Pheww, there we go again with the age thing! Age does not mean wisdom. I'll leave it at that. The sooner Nigerians stop thinking that they're somehow better than western countries, the better for them and Nigeria.
Ofcourse I'll use myself or the people I know as example. I'm not going to say stuff I know nothing about. After all, the poster was focusing on just yoruba folks and not all Nigerians. It's your choice where you choose 2 raise your child. I'm just saying that all this 'we don't do that, we have culture in Nigeria' mentality needs to stop. I've seen worse behaviors displayed by the so-called nigerian-bred kids compared to some American kids. Where one lives is not all that matters but the people around you and the kind of upbringing your parents give you.
You must think that all American or UK-bred kids are rude, which is totally false. You can go to a ghetto school here in d states and still find right-thinking people. Just like I'm sure it is in Nigeria. It's up to a kid to decide who/who not to make friends with depending on the kind of advice/teachings given to the kid at home.
All these parents sending their kids to Nigeria to study while they, the parents remain abroad are all lazy. Just take up your responsibility and teach your child d way to go(it's in d bible) and when s/he grows up, s/he will not depart from it. Instead of depending on a so-called culture, which few people now practice. If this were the olden days, around d time my parents were kids, I would def. agree that Nigeria would be better to raise a kid but not in these times. Nigeria is off the chain right now! I mean, off the chain.

chiogo:

Pheww, there we go again with the age thing! Age does not mean wisdom. I'll leave it at that. The sooner Nigerians stop thinking that they're somehow better than western countries, the better for them and Nigeria.
Ofcourse I'll use myself or the people I know as example. I'm not going to say stuff I know nothing about. After all, the poster was focusing on just yoruba folks and not all Nigerians. It's your choice where you choose 2 raise your child. I'm just saying that all this 'we don't do that, we have culture in Nigeria' mentality needs to stop. I've seen worse behaviors displayed by the so-called nigerian-bred kids compared to some American kids. Where one lives is not all that matters but the people around you and the kind of upbringing your parents give you.
You must think that all American or UK-bred kids are rude, which is totally false. You can go to a ghetto school here in d states and still find right-thinking people. Just like I'm sure it is in Nigeria. It's up to a kid to decide who/who not to make friends with depending on the kind of advice/teachings given to the kid at home. All these parents sending their kids to Nigeria to study while they, the parents remain abroad are all lazy. Just take up your responsibility and teach your child d way to go(it's in d bible) and when s/he grows up, s/he will not depart from him. Instead of depending on a so-called culture, which few people now practice. If this were the olden days, around d time my parents were kids, I would def. agree that Nigeria would be better to raise a kid but not in these times. Nigeria is off the chain right now! I mean, off the chain.

Gbam, faim. On point,

Chiogo you vex post that wan oh.

chiogo:

Pheww, there we go again with the age thing! Age does not mean wisdom. I'll leave it at that. The sooner Nigerians stop thinking that they're somehow better than western countries, the better for them and Nigeria.
Ofcourse I'll use myself or the people I know as example. I'm not going to say stuff I know nothing about. After all, the poster was focusing on just yoruba folks and not all Nigerians. It's your choice where you choose 2 raise your child. I'm just saying that all this 'we don't do that, we have culture in Nigeria' mentality needs to stop. I've seen worse behaviors displayed by the so-called nigerian-bred kids compared to some American kids. Where one lives is not all that matters but the people around you and the kind of upbringing your parents give you.
You must think that all American or UK-bred kids are rude, which is totally false. You can go to a ghetto school here in d states and still find right-thinking people. Just like I'm sure it is in Nigeria. It's up to a kid to decide who/who not to make friends with depending on the kind of advice/teachings given to the kid at home.
[b]All these parents sending their kids to Nigeria to study while they, the parents remain abroad are all lazy. [/b]Just take up your responsibility and teach your child d way to go(it's in d bible) and when s/he grows up, s/he will not depart from it. Instead of depending on a so-called culture, which few people now practice. If this were the olden days, around d time my parents were kids, I would def. agree that Nigeria would be better to raise a kid but not in these times. Nigeria is off the chain right now! I mean, off the chain.

Just see the bolded text above.
~shaking my head~

[size=14pt]All these parents sending their kids to Nigeria to study while they, the parents remain abroad are all lazy[/size]

Life challenges are very good for humans development. Human beings are made to desire challenge or else they subconciously feel disillusioned.

I would only cater for the needs of my kids, the wants? they would have to work for.

Yes, sir. ese.
Am not trying any challenge with my blood.
goodluck to other parents that's willing to take the risk.

Seriously, I don't understand how sending my kid to naija is going to help him/her.
Now that the new generations are copying everything westernized, he/she might as well stay here and learn.

lazy?

That's funny. It's that lazy working that allow the parents to provide to pay for good schools in Naija while you all drown in Inner City public schools.

@ topic: make sure that nudity bill doesnt get passed, or else you could be sending your 14 year old daughter to Nigeria to be locked up for "indecent" dressing.

chiogo:

Pheww, there we go again with the age thing! Age does not mean wisdom. I'll leave it at that. The sooner Nigerians stop thinking that they're somehow better than western countries, the better for them and Nigeria.
Ofcourse I'll use myself or the people I know as example. I'm not going to say stuff I know nothing about. After all, the poster was focusing on just yoruba folks and not all Nigerians. It's your choice where you choose 2 raise your child. I'm just saying that all this 'we don't do that, we have culture in Nigeria' mentality needs to stop. I've seen worse behaviors displayed by the so-called nigerian-bred kids compared to some American kids. Where one lives is not all that matters but the people around you and the kind of upbringing your parents give you.
You must think that all American or UK-bred kids are rude, which is totally false. You can go to a ghetto school here in d states and still find right-thinking people. Just like I'm sure it is in Nigeria. It's up to a kid to decide who/who not to make friends with depending on the kind of advice/teachings given to the kid at home.
All these parents sending their kids to Nigeria to study while they, the parents remain abroad are all lazy. Just take up your responsibility and teach your child d way to go(it's in d bible) and when s/he grows up, s/he will not depart from it. Instead of depending on a so-called culture, which few people now practice. If this were the olden days, around d time my parents were kids, I would def. agree that Nigeria would be better to raise a kid but not in these times. Nigeria is off the chain right now! I mean, off the chain.

look at where our culture has taken

I think parents actually use this culture excuse to get more time for extra dollars!!!

Isn't that the same reason why i suggest you take them home where your folks will be free to [size=15pt]whip him/her at will?[/size] I mean what's the point in keeping them here, pampering and nurturing them when the chances of them being useless is very very high. There's been cases of high class surgeons that grew up in Ajegunle but you wouldn't want to risk raising your child there b/c the success rate is very low unless you count "gutter sniffing" as success.

I keep hearing this, 'in this country you are not allowed to beat your children' as if that's the only way to raise a child
sometimes the way they(parents/guardians0 say it; you'll feel they are looking for some 'sort' of release from the stress they are going through at work

although there are no studies to show it but the way many kids are brought up in nigeria affects their life as adults,
think about it in a country where parents beat their child mercilessly for playing football in their play time (usually after spending 8hours in school, three hours with a home tutor and one hour with the Arabic teacher!) or punish a three year old for colouring or doodling instead of writing a-z,1-10,000 with beautiful handwriting

@Dis Guy, thank you, jare. Culture coo, torture nee. That's why an average Nigerian kid cannot be compared to an average American kid. Nigerian kids grow up . . .what's the word?. . .timid(worse than that) all in the name of culture. They can be book-smart but not street-smart. What do u expect when you're flogged like an animal over petty things. When they get old, they feel like they lost out on childhood fun and that's when drama starts! Hahaha.

@Dis Guy, thank you, jare. Culture coo, torture nee. That's why an average Nigerian kid cannot be compared to an average American kid. [size=14pt]Nigerian kids grow up . . .what's the word?. . .timid(worse than that) all in the name of culture. They can be book-smart but not street-smart[/size]. What do u expect when you're flogged like an animal over petty things. When they get old, they feel like they lost out on childhood fun and that's when drama starts! Hahaha.

Another bombshell.

Umm, you mind explaining what 'bombshell' means? Cuz je ne comprends pas all these 'downlow' talks.

chiogo:

@Dis Guy, thank you, jare. Culture coo, torture nee. That's why an average Nigerian kid cannot be compared to an average American kid. Nigerian kids grow up . . .what's the word?. . .timid(worse than that) all in the name of culture. They can be book-smart but not street-smart. What do u expect when you're flogged like an animal over petty things. When they get old, they feel like they lost out on childhood fun and that's when drama starts! Hahaha.

that's the same thing that i try to explain to some nigerian parents. you compare an average american kid to an average nigerian kid born in america, you can definitely see the difference in their behavior. american kids can speak their mind which to some who are not american might consider rude. sometimes they are but most of the time they are not.

When they get old, they feel like they lost out on childhood fun and that's when drama starts! Hahaha.

so so true. i went to school with a lot africans but mostly nigerians and i can truly say that once they hit high school, the drama surely begins. some of the friends i started high school with ended up somewhere else(either back in africa or to live with a "strict" relative in another part of the country) by the time i graduated because their parents thought that they were "getting out of control" only because they wanted to do after school activities or just do fun things. most of the parents think all you need is to read books and not have fun and that's not good. everything has to be balanced. period.