Is Islam practicable without the Sunnah of the holy prophet (saws)? Absolutely NO!

One thing of surety is that Qur'an alone is NOT enough to practically understand Islam. All the details of every practice decreed in the Quran are found in the Sunnah.

BANNING & BURNING OF HADITH!
The regime of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd caliph which lasted for 2 decades (20years)were marred with the banning and burning of Hadith documents in-line with forbidding hadith's narration of the holy prophet (s).

ABU BAKAR's REGIME!
Immediately after the demise of the prophet (saws), companions started writing and documenting sayings and practice of the prophet (saws) since he is no more with them. Alas! Abu Bakar collected these writing of 500+ hadith and BURNT them.

Abu Bakar's Excuse was:"It is possible that there should be certain things in it which did not correspond textually with what the Prophet had uttered, so I was worried that I die and these ahadith remain with me."

Then he ordered:
"Transmit no hadiths from God’s messenger. Book of God is with you- take what is halal and reject what is Haram from it"

Ref: • Kanz al-Ummal by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi (vol 10 No.29460); Tadhkirat al-Huffadh by al-Dhahabi

This words is very similar in meaning to what Umar uttered at the death-bed of the holy prophet. The holy prophet (saws) asked for "pen and writing material" to write and document what will guide Muslims from not going astray. Umar said:

"Verily Allah's Messenger is deeply afflicted with pain. You have the Qur'an with you. The Book of Allah is sufficient for us."

Was Abu Bakar's excuse tenable? If he was worried at probable textual error as he claimed, was burning the solution? Couldn't he have gathered other prominent sahaba and validate these hadith?

UMAR'S REGIME
Ibn Sa'ad in al-Tabaqat al-Kubra reported that the narration of Hadith increased in number during the reign of Umar so he asked the people to bring him all they had as written Hadith so they can be gathered as one document. When they brought them to him, he BURNT them" ~Tabaqat Ibn Sa'ad.

His Excuse:
"I was going to codify the Hadith but I remembered the Former peoples who neglected the Divine Books and concentrated only on the conduct of the prophets. I do not want to set up the possibility of confusion between the Divine Qur’an and the Prophet's Hadith."

Which people exactly was the 2nd Caliph talking about? If the holy prophet was not worried of people confusing Book of God and his writing even at his death-bed, what was Umar's worry?

In style, in recitation, in instruction, in admonition, etc the Holy Qur'an is different from hadith so why would there be any confusion?

"Say: If men and jinn should combine together to bring the like of this Quran, they could not bring the like of it, though some of them were aiders of others".~Quran 17:88

Having something documented clarify confusion, dispel doubt and pave way for the future generation.

UTHMAN'S REGIME!
Uthman followed the tradition of the first two Caliph. He was heard on the Minbar saying that no one has the right to narrate Hadith that was not narrated during the reigns of Abu bakr and Umar (al-Tabaqat al-Kubra by ibn Sa'ad).

Why? Why following the 'sunnah' of Abu Bakar and Umar?

It is a grave assertion to believe that Abu Bakar and Umar with Uthman were among the "rightly guided caliph". Apart from the fact that there is NO textual (Naql) evidence for that, If it is so, then their decision of burning and banning hadith narration could be assumed to be right. And since the holy prophet ordered Muslims to follow... the sunnah of the "rightly guided Caliph", then having narration of hadith as it is today is "kufr (disobedience)" to the order of the prophet.

BAN LIFTED
Narrated Abu Huraira: ... And 'Umar bin 'Abdul 'Aziz wrote to Abu Bakr bin Hazm, "Look for the knowledge of Hadith and get it written, as I am afraid that religious knowledge will vanish and the religious learned men will pass away (die). Do not accept anything save the Hadiths of the Prophet. Circulate knowledge and teach the ignorant, for knowledge does not vanish except when it is kept secretly (to oneself)."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 98, Book: Knowledge; Page 39, Number 99 (Arabic version).

It is crystal clear that none of these first three caliph ever claimed that what they did were prophet's approval rather they used their own discretion. And here was Umar Ibn Abd'Aziz who used his own discretion too to enjoyed people to write and document hadith of the holy prophet (saws).

What was Abu Bakar, Umar and Uthman's intent? Had it been something was actually documented then, no doubt there would be limitations to forged and so-called weak hadith because the ones in Muslim's possession right now was not approved by anybody of repute (prophet or his companions).

....and what did Alli do abt all these?. Afterall he was alive, and he saw the hadiths being burnt if ur claim is true.

besides those wording and quote are from people who we dont know as hadith narrators. They cud be shias for all i care and all that may be fabrications. yu said the first three caliph werent mentioned as 'rightly guided'. was Alli mentioned so?...do you even think Alli wasnt fallible?...are you forgetting he was human?...Do you realise that even he respected these people and never said negatives about them

babylolaroy: ....and what did Alli do abt all these?. Afterall he was alive, and he saw the hadiths being burnt if ur claim is true.

besides those wording and quote are from people who we dont know as hadith narrators. They cud be shias for all i care and all that may be fabrications. yu said the first three caliph werent mentioned as 'rightly guided'. was Alli mentioned so?...do you even think Alli wasnt fallible?...are you forgetting he was human?...Do you realise that even he respected these people and never said negatives about them

According to shias Ali r.a had to resort to practising Tarqiyyah from when Abubakar r.a became caliph to the death of Uthman r.a, in fact he would not only keep quite for most of these years but he would have to continue to pretend to the extent that he would married his daughter to man Shia claim caused the death of his wife and was in bad terms with wife before her death! Their confusion elicit my deepest sympathy and pity, even a spineless coward would never behave like that, but the shias claimed Ali r.a engaged in tarqiyyah to save his neck and even married off his daughter to a person who they spend their live cursing, while according to them Islam was being undermined and people were being led astray. The Ali r.a Muslims know was not a coward or living in perpetual tarqiyyah, rather despite his difference in relatively few issues, Ali r.a lived cordially and even provided his advice to his leaders for the advancement of the Ummah with the rest of the sahabahs after the death of the prophet pbuh.

babylolaroy: ....and what did Alli do abt all these?. Afterall he was alive, and he saw the hadiths being burnt...

Imam Ali, Fatima, Hassan: they all revolted but they were just like a toothless dog. Remember Malik and his clan who refused to give pay allegiance and Zakat to Abu Bakar. He and his clan were massacred by khalid ibn walid under the command of the 1st khalipha. Khalid even slept (raped) Malik's wife the same night her husband was murdered.

What could Imam Ali (a.s) do in this circumstance:

A. It is not a hidden fact according to both Sunni and Shi'a Tarikh (history) that there were minorities (of whom Ali was the main figure) that did not recognized the leadership of Abu Bakar. No bay'a was given to him. The leadership of Abu Bakar was so threatened by this that some of his companion led by Umar wanted to burn down Fatima's house in which Ali, Fatima, Hassanain,Abu Dharr, Salman, talha, zubair, etc sought refuge.

B. Fatima(a.s) was denied her right. AbuBakar ceased her piece of land given to her as a gift by her father. It aggravated to the fact that Fatima refused to talk to Abu Bakar (and his associates) till she expires.

C. Imam Ali (a.s) compiled holy Qur'an with a full detailed Tafsir and Tawil within some days after the holy prophet (saws) was buried. He (a.s) presented this golden piece to the 1st khalipha but they rejected it saying: "we can do the same".

D. Observe: throughout the 20+years of the regime of the 1st three Khalipha, Ali NEVER participated in any affair whatsoever of their government. He was seen as an ordinary man. Although whenever there's a bigger problem they cannot solve, they will seek his judgement through his shi'a, Abdullah Ibn Abbas.

babylolaroy: .... if ur claim is true...

There's no thread I posted with NO Reference from Sunni source. Alhamdulillah none of you guys have ever challenge my reference so far.
I simply don't have any claim except what your grand Ulama recorded in their valuable books which happened to be ahlu sunnah's watch tower. It is just unfortunate that muslim youth of today are the lazy type to study Islamic history. And the scholars have tried their best to sweep truth and facts under the carpet hoping to rewrite Islamic history one day.

babylolaroy:

besides those wording and quote are from people who we dont know as hadith narrators. They cud be shias for all i care and all that may be fabrications.

Kindly present all my references and meet your Ustaz for clarification if those names sound alien to you. You know you've been programmed with sahih Bukhari and Muslim as if it was prescribed by Allah or Rasul.

babylolaroy: yu said the first three caliph werent mentioned as 'rightly guided'. was Alli mentioned so?...do you even think Alli wasnt fallible?...are you forgetting he was human?...Do you realise that even he respected these people and never said negatives about them

Yes the first three khalipha were NEVER EVER among the "rightly guided khalipha". Present your references (even if it is weak I will accept it).
I have pasted a thread on that already.
Sahih Bukhari, Muslim and others reported from the prophet that there would be 12 Amir or khalipha after him who will be his successor, all from Quraysh. According to Sunni references, Ali was the first and al-Madhi the last with the 10 in between mentioned by the prophet (saws).
Am all yours if you want to extend this.

Imam Ali was human but Allah was his guide in his A, B, Cs just like Rasul (saws). Sahih Muslim reported that the holy prophet (saws) recited Q.33 vs 33 ("...It is Allah's wish to remove al-jiz from you O ahl al-bayt and to purify you with thorough purification" and he (saws) said: "Allah has protected me and my ahl al-bayt from sin.

babylolaroy: ...Do you realise that even he respected these people and never said negatives about them

Holy prophet (saws) personally trained Imam Ali (a.s) till he became to the prophet what Haroun was to Musa (a.s). It he became the gate to the prophet's city of knowledge in which nobody can enter the city except by the gate.

If the holy prophet (saws) could embrace his avowed enemies and even married Abu sufyan's daughter, Ramla, just to calm down their hatred, jealous, anger and rancour towards him and Islam, what do you expect from Imam Ali other than this kind of large heart?

Imam Ali described the regime of the 1st three khalipha as a piece of bone stuck in his throat.

Lastly, why do u always think my thread or comment abuse your khaliphas? Is it a crime to relate what Bukhari, Muslim, Tabari, Ibn sa'ad etc recorded about them? Why do you (and others) always afraid of reading the other side of these khalipha? Had it been my references are Shi'a sources, then you have the right to accuse me. Remember I was a core ahlu sunnah...so I know the drill.
Believing in them is NEVER a part or prerequisite of being a Muslim not to mention to enter Jannah.

vedaxcool:

According to shias Ali r.a had to resort to practising Tarqiyyah from when Abubakar r.a became caliph to the death of Uthman r.a, in fact he would not only keep quite for most of these years but he would have to continue to pretend to the extent that he would married his daughter to man Shia claim caused the death of his wife and was in bad terms with wife before her death! Their confusion elicit my deepest sympathy and pity, even a spineless coward would never behave like that, but the shias claimed Ali r.a engaged in tarqiyyah to save his neck and even married off his daughter to a person who they spend their live cursing, while according to them Islam was being undermined and people were being led astray. The Ali r.a Muslims know was not a coward or living in perpetual tarqiyyah, .

My advice to you is that you go back and study. And don't forget to study about Taqiyyah also and its applicability!

Even sahih Bukhari of all hadith recorded Imam Ali never recognized the khilapha of Abu Bakar for 6months till he discovered people were being hostile to him. What do you call that? Was that kind of allegiance out of free-will?

Besides, tell me a single post (just ONE) in which Ali held for 20+years out of the regime of the 1st three khaliph? Yet unknown figures held different post. Ali despite of his unravel knowledge, bravery, valor, sagacity, piety NEVER EVER par took in their administration! Does anyone need to tell you something is going on?

Marriage of Imam's daughter with the Sheikhain (sunni source anyway)! In Islam, you don't refuse hand in marriage. The only hand the prophet refused was that of Abu Bakar and Umar when they proposed to marry Bibi Fatima (a.s).
If you however see Imam Ali (a.s) giving her daughters out in marriage, be it known that it was NEVER in the lineage of Fatima (a.s) in which the Imams were preserved. After all, after Hassanain, Fatima (a.s) had a daughter called Bibi Zaynab.

vedaxcool:
... rather despite his difference in relatively few issues,

So you too agree say dem get "few issues" of misunderstanding! Allahu akbar. Perhaps you will like to expose that "few issues" for analysis.

vedaxcool:
Ali r.a lived cordially and even provided his advice to his leaders for the advancement of the Ummah with the rest of the sahabahs after the death of the prophet pbuh.

Imam Ali (a.s) was never a rogue. He kept silent and quiet for 20+years for the sake of Islam. Even when certain Jew traveled from afar to advice and to offer support for Imam Ali to revolt against the usurped khalipha, he, knowing this are enemies of Islam, faced the Jew and said: "woe be to you! Do you think the seat is dearer to me than Islam? The feet of your fore-fathers have not dried before they begin worship calf just because Musa went up to meet his Lord..."

Abu sufyan too came and offer support for Imam Ali (a.s) to up rise against the khilapha of Abu Bakar. He (a.s) shamed him and reminded him how he and certain Munafiq planned on several occasion to assassinate the prophet.

vedaxcool:
...even provided his advice to his leaders for the advancement of the Ummah with the rest of the sahabahs after the death of the prophet pbuh.

Yes such was the nature of Ali Ibn abi Talib. He never cease giving them advice whenever they fall short.
Umar prepared and led a huge army to face the byzantine empire during his regime. On his way, Imam Ali stopped him and asked him to go back and allow the troop alone to go. Umar asked why? Imam Ali (a.s) said: "If you, being the head of state, lead the army, your opponent will know you have brought your best army to the war. But not going, they will assumed the best are yet to come and that will put fear into their spine..."
Umar said: "had it not been for Abul Hassan, Umar would have perished".

How many incident do we want to recollect.

now you said Alli compiled the quran and brought it. i thot you said before that the prophet Muhammad did it all before his death. you were like:" what kind of prophet would be given such a duty and wud leave it undone till he died?"

Al-Baqir:


My advice to you is that you go back and study. And don't forget to study about Taqiyyah also and its applicability!

Even sahih Bukhari of all hadith recorded Imam Ali never recognized the khilapha of Abu Bakar for 6months till he discovered people were being hostile to him. What do you call that? Was that kind of allegiance out of free-will?

Besides, tell me a single post (just ONE) in which Ali held for 20+years out of the regime of the 1st three khaliph? Yet unknown figures held different post. Ali despite of his unravel knowledge, bravery, valor, sagacity, piety NEVER EVER par took in their administration! Does anyone need to tell you something is going on?

You should do some thinking, So you mean Ali r.a was so cowardly that he was frightened to give his allegiance? This is pathetic indeed, and the same person you believe is brave and pious? The same person that didn't utter a single word against the burning of hadiths, all sort of "wrongs" going against Islam, please think well, the prophet pbuh was done all manner of evil to in order for him to renounce ISlam, yet he maintained the straight path, yet you insist that Ali r.a learnt nothing from the prophet decision to resist all sort of pressure against him, and easily capitulated to "pressure"! The Ali r.a we muslims know is not a COWARD!

Marriage of Imam's daughter with the Sheikhain (sunni source anyway)! In Islam, you don't refuse hand in marriage. The only hand the prophet refused was that of Abu Bakar and Umar when they proposed to marry Bibi Fatima (a.s).
If you however see Imam Ali (a.s) giving her daughters out in marriage, be it known that it was NEVER in the lineage of Fatima (a.s) in which the Imams were preserved. After all, after Hassanain, Fatima (a.s) had a daughter called Bibi Zaynab.[/quote]

According to SHia source Ali r.a married off his daughter from Fatimah r.a to Umar, go and study since you seem to have deceived by your masters that only sunni sources speak of the marriage of Umm Kultum to Umar r.a please read, Iqra! https://www.nairaland.com/866635/dear-mr-assad-spoken-word/1#10234559

Al-Baqir:

So you too agree say dem get "few issues" of misunderstanding! Allahu akbar. Perhaps you will like to expose that "few issues" for analysis.

Ali r.a also had disagreement with his wife Fatima r.a, forcing the prophet pbuh to say whoever that angers Fatima angers me, should we also say Allahu akbar? You shias are pathetic, if Ali r.a can have disagrrement with Fatima how does any rational person expect him not to have with other sahabas?

Al-Baqir:

Imam Ali (a.s) was never a rogue. He kept silent and quiet for 20+years for the sake of Islam. Even when certain Jew traveled from afar to advice and to offer support for Imam Ali to revolt against the usurped khalipha, he, knowing this are enemies of Islam, faced the Jew and said: "woe be to you! Do you think the seat is dearer to me than Islam? The feet of your fore-fathers have not dried before they begin worship calf just because Musa went up to meet his Lord..."

Abu sufyan too came and offer support for Imam Ali (a.s) to up rise against the khilapha of Abu Bakar. He (a.s) shamed him and reminded him how he and certain Munafiq planned on several occasion to assassinate the prophet.

Yet he decided to fight Muawiyyah back, why? Ali r.a maintained cordiality with the Sahabas of the prophets pbuh, whjo he took as his leaders because he agreed with them and accepted their rule as legitimate.

Al-Baqir:

Yes such was the nature of Ali Ibn abi Talib. He never cease giving them advice whenever they fall short.
Umar prepared and led a huge army to face the byzantine empire during his regime. On his way, Imam Ali stopped him and asked him to go back and allow the troop alone to go. Umar asked why? Imam Ali (a.s) said: "If you, being the head of state, lead the army, your opponent will know you have brought your best army to the war. But not going, they will assumed the best are yet to come and that will put fear into their spine..."
Umar said: "had it not been for Abul Hassan, Umar would have perished".

How many incident do we want to recollect.

Allahu akbar, proving the cordial relationship between him and the caliphs

babylolaroy: now you said Alli compiled the quran and brought it. i thot you said before that the prophet Muhammad did it all before his death.

That's the reason I laid emphasis on... WITH TAFSIR and TA'WIL to each ayah! Unless you want me to rephrase my english. Like adding Tafsir + Ta'wil to a compiled Qur'an.
No soul could ever claim the tafsir and ta'wil of each ayah was ever written as the holy Qur'an was been written down. That was the task the holy prophet gave to his ahl al-bayt. That's why he (saws) said:

"I leave amongst you two weighty things...book of God and my ahl al-bayt..."

"Ali is with the Qur'an and the Qur'an is with Ali..."

Can't you see how brilliant Abdullah Ibn Abbas was? He was among the best scholar and Mufassir of the Ummah. You know what? He studied under Ali Ibn Abi Talib and was his Shi'a.

Well sunni never hold such believe. Your believe is Uthman got the job done while somebody in the person of Mu'awiyah who accepted Islam 2years to the death of Rasul was giving the post of "scribe of revelation".

babylolaroy: you were like:" what kind of prophet would be given such a duty and wud leave it undone till he died?"

You feel that? Lol.
Muhammad (saws) completed his task as the best prophet of God; hence, Allah says: "Today I have perfected your religion for you..."

vedaxcool:

You should do some thinking, So you mean Ali r.a was so cowardly that he was frightened to give his allegiance? This is pathetic indeed, and the same person you believe is brave and pious? The same person that didn't utter a single word against the burning of hadiths, all sort of "wrongs" going against Islam, please think well, the prophet pbuh was done all manner of evil to in order for him to renounce ISlam, yet he maintained the straight path, yet you insist that Ali r.a learnt nothing from the prophet decision to resist all sort of pressure against him, and easily capitulated to "pressure"! The Ali r.a we muslims know is not a COWARD!

You see that's the feeling bro! That's exactly the spirit! You too see that it doesn't make any sense for Imam Ali, the Lion of God, The bravest and ever conqueror of Islam, to just give up just because of people hostility?
Remember I gave you Sahih al-Bukhari's narration and I based that to pinpoint my assertion that there was a rift between them. So you can see how erroneous some narration could be in Sahih al-Bukhari! If I dare to tell you Bukhari falsify or edit...you will be like....Lol

According to a sunni Mu'tazili scholar, Ibn Abil Hadid, who compiled Sharh Nahj al-Balagha, and many host of Shi'a sources, Imam Ali was chained and forced to give bay'a.

Pls don't run away or derail from the question at hand. Why were your shuyukh burnt the sayings of their prophet and barred people from narrating for more than 2 decades?

vedaxcool:


According to SHia source Ali r.a married off his daughter from Fatimah r.a to Umar, go and study since you seem to have deceived by your masters that only sunni sources speak of the marriage of Umm Kultum to Umar r.a please read, Iqra! https://www.nairaland.com/866635/dear-mr-assad-spoken-word/1#10234559

Vedaxcool, don't give me a sheik or a Dr or a pathetic website! I am an inquisitive kind of person and alhamdulillah my collections of both Sunni and shi'a and other school are big enough to soak your claim. Just give me a SHI'A source. Just ONE pls.
How many lies have Ibn Taymiyah, Bilal phillip and the likes have dogmatically proclaim to justify thei pathetic claims. May God disgrace fanaticism.

This is how Shi'a Ulama gunned down those hadith that claimed that falacy: imamshirazi.com/history.html

vedaxcool:

Ali r.a also had disagreement with his wife Fatima r.a, forcing the prophet pbuh to say whoever that angers Fatima angers me, should we also say Allahu akbar? You shias are pathetic, if Ali r.a can have disagrrement with Fatima how does any rational person expect him not to have with other sahabas?

Lol. Lol. If you want to dialogue, argue or reason with your opponent, you cite or quote his very valuable references not yours.
Go back to all my thread (unfortunately your boss Mac the moderator have hidden some). I will always cite 99% of Sunni references.

Now I know you know NAH'DAH about Fatima, Ali and their blessed marriage.
Even if I quote for you from the Qur'an, Aisha's attitude towards her husband (saws), you might denied.

vedaxcool:

Yet he decided to fight Muawiyyah back, why? Ali r.a maintained cordiality with the Sahabas of the prophets pbuh, whjo he took as his leaders because he agreed with them and accepted their rule as legitimate.

Point of correction! Mu'awiyah, Talha, Zubair and AISHA wage war against the "rightly Guided Khalipha" of their time. Not the other way round!
At this time, Imam (a.s) was the head of state having all the necessary capability to silence the rebels.

At the time of the 1st khalipha, Islam had many enemies inside and outside, who only await internal discord and strife for them to strike.
And besides no support from any reliable quarter for him. You can compare this with the peace treaty of Hudaybiyah the holy prophet signed with the Mushriqeen, Jew and the likes.
You as a Sunni Muslim, you have Tarikh al-Tabari, Ansab al-Ashraf and many valuable historical books. Go back and read dear brother.

vedaxcool:

Allahu akbar, proving the cordial relationship between him and the caliphs

So you want Imam to be like you and I who are so emotionally controlled that even if we see our "enemies" on the path of destruction, we leave him to destroy himself?
Had it been Imam did not stopped Umar, what will you say? All the world will put an accusing finger on him that he was a selfish man. In fact, I will never follow him as a leader.
Do you want another narration where Umar has ordered a punishment of stoning to a mad woman on account of adultery? My Imam stopped the execution saying: "there's no sin for 3 people..."

Question: Did the daughter of Imam Ali (AS)
marry Umar?
Is there a hadith about the daughter of Imam Ali (As) who was asked in marriage by the second caliph Umar? Did a marriage take place at all?

Answer
Bismillah al-Rahmaan al-Raheem

The short answer to this question is yes there are
hadiths that attempt to suggest that Umar bin al-
Khattaab asked for the daughter of Imam Ali (AS).
The hadiths that are reported in such sunny hadith
books as the book of al-Estee'aab by Ibn Abd-el-Birr,
the book of Taareekh Baghdaad by al-Khateeb al-
Baghdaadi, and the book of al-Esaabah by Ibn Hajar
are quite clearly false and un-authentic; not only on
the basis of the narrators of the hadiths, but also on
the basis of the content of the hadiths.
In one hadith "Umar asks Imam Ali (AS) for his
daughter in marriage, and Imam Ali (AS) asks him to leave and then Imam Ali asks his daughter to go to Umar, and when she arrives Umar asks her to marry him, and places his hand on her leg and uncovers her leg!!!!!! She immediately says to him you do this to me! If you were not the ruler I would have broken your nose. And she leaves the room. She tells Imam Ali of what happened and added 'You sent me to a vile old man.' But Ali nevertheless marries her to him!" al-Estee'aab 4/1954.

In another hadith "Umar asks Imam Ali (AS) for his
daughter in marriage, and Imam Ali (AS) asks him to leave and then Imam Ali asks his daughter to make herself beautiful to go to Umar!!! And when Umar saw her he placed his hand on her leg and asked her to marry him . . . when she came back to her father Imam Ali asked her what did Umar tell you, she replied Umar kissed me and placed his hand on my leg and asked me to marry him. Then Ali married her to him!!!!!" Taareekh Baghdaad 6/182.

Ibn Hajar reports in his book al-Esaabah that "Umar
asks Imam Ali (AS) for his daughter Umm Kolthum
(AS) in marriage, and Imam Ali (AS) asks him to
leave and then Imam Ali asks his daughter to go to
Umar, and when she arrives Umar placed his hand on her leg and uncovers her leg!!!!!! The daughter of Imam Ali (AS) says to him if you were not the ruler I would have gouged your eyes . . . ." al-Esaabah 4/321.
The behaviour of Umar according to such hadiths has been so fouls and abhorrent that many sunny
scholars have been put to shame. Because such
behaviour is not only disgraceful, but it is also totally haram according to Islam. One of the top sunny scholars, Ibn Jawzey, states in his book "Tathkirat Khawas al-Ummah" p 321: "And by Allah this is vile and despicable, even if she was a slave Umar may not have done this to her, and furthermore in accordance with the unanimous consensus of the scholars of the Muslims, the touching of a non-Mahram is not allowed, then how this hadith can be attributed to Umar?"

As you can see these hadiths are totally false and any respectable and honourable Muslim would not send his daughter to the house of another man or agree to such abhorrent behaviour let alone agreeing to marrying his daughter. These hadiths have been placed by the enemies of Imam Ali (AS) and the enemies of the Ahl-ul-Bayt (AS) in order to demean Imam Ali and his household (AS) and give some status to Umar. Such a marriage certainly did not take place at all.
Imam Ali the son of Abi_Talib peace be upon them,
had two daughters from Lady Fatimah al-Zahra'
peace be upon her, the beloved daughter of the holy Prophet Muhammad may Allah bless him and his pure family. They were Zaynab and Umm_Kolthoum peace be upon them.

Lady Zaynab married her cousin Abdullah the son of
Ja'far ibn Abi_Talib - also known as Ja'far al-Tayyar.
Ja'far al-Tayyar, who on the orders of the prophet
headed the Muslims who migrated to Abyssinia , is
the brother of Imam Ali peace be upon them.

Lady Umm_Kolthoum married her cousin
Muhammad/Sa'id the son of Aqeel ibn Abi_Talib.
Aqeel ibn Abi Talib is the elder brother of Imam Ali
ibn Abi Talib.

Source: imamshirazi.com/history.html

@ brother Al-Baqir

please do not waste your time with Vedaxcool. he is regurgitating trash. The very link he has presented stand as proof against his ignorance.so leave him. He is pleased to continue living in 1400 years deception,fabrications and distortion of history, and a path full of contradictions and "obscurity" where both the oppressor and the oppressed are his heroes.

the usual lie of Imam Ali (as) "giving" his daughter in marriage to Umar,while their hadiths explain that Umar threatened and forced the marriage,while others deny Umm Kulthoom being the biological daughter of Imam Ali (as).the Umm Kulthoom umar married was the adopted daughter of Imam Ali (as),the daughter of abu bakr.Asma Bint Umais (ra) was her mother,and she was first married to Ja'far Ibn Abi Talib (as)-Imam Ali's (as) brother-and later to abu bakr.

the usual trash too that it was Imam Ali (as) that angered Lady Fatima (as) -that the Prophet (sa) said :"Fatima's wrath is the wrath of Allah"-when it is clearly made noticed that she died in a state of anger on abu bakr.then finally upon the death of abu bakr,Imam Ali (as) married her and adopted her children,as she was initially married to his own brother.

the usual trash also that being wise and knowing when to fight and not to fight is "cowardice".yet the Prophet (sa) stayed over a decade being abused while not fighting Quraysh.why? because the Prophet (sa) did not have the conditions set to raise up a weapon in self-defense.you don't raise a one man army and think you are defending yourself and not committing suicide.when the time was ripe,Imam Ali (as) faced Aisha (abu bakr's daughter on the battle field) and gave her a good beating in the battle of jamal,as he also faced the army of muawiya (son of abu sufyan,the arch-enemy of the Prophet) in the battle of siffeen and also exposed his treachery.but of course we should forget about the family of the Prophet (sa) and their status to protect the honor of a bunch of "sahaba".Allah (swt) is the best of judges!!!

with all the many battles Imam Ali (as) singlehandedly changed their course and gave victory to Islam in the time of the Prophet (sa),one just get amazed that sunnis cannot ask themselves why Imam Ali (as) did not participate in one of the many battles under the first 3 sunni caliphs? yet we are meant to believe all was well,and nothing was wrong,and it was all "minor".

LagosShia: @ brother Al-Baqir

please do not waste your time with Vedaxcool. he is regurgitating trash. The very link he has presented stand as proof against his ignorance.so leave him. He is pleased to continue living in 1400 years deception,fabrications and distortion of history, and a path full of contradictions and "obscurity" where both the oppressor and the oppressed are his heroes.
.

You very right akhi!
Honestly the biggest problem these fellas have is they see everything through fight-fight. No matter how much you quote their revered sources instead of going back and contemplate, they are okay with what they have been spoon-fed. 1000years of mental-slavery!

LagosShia: @ brother Al-Baqir

the usual lie of Imam Ali (as) "giving" his daughter in marriage to Umar,while their hadiths explain that Umar threatened and forced the marriage,while others deny Umm Kulthoom being the biological daughter of Imam Ali (as).the Umm Kulthoom umar married was the adopted daughter of Imam Ali (as),the daughter of abu bakr.Asma Bint Umais (ra) was her mother,and she was first married to Ja'far Ibn Abi Talib (as)-Imam Ali's (as) brother-and later to abu bakr.

What do you expect from the Sunni narrator, historian et al? History never favor Sunni-path. That's why the present-day Sunni scholars don't encourage their followers to read history. What about Mantiq (Logic)? They dare not approach it and even forbids it.

LagosShia: @ brother Al-Baqir

the usual trash too that it was Imam Ali (as) that angered Lady Fatima (as) -that the Prophet (sa) said :"Fatima's wrath is the wrath of Allah"-when it is clearly made noticed that she died in a state of anger on abu bakr.then finally upon the death of abu bakr,Imam Ali (as) married her and adopted her children,as she was initially married to his own brother.

What do you expect? They need to fabricate something to attach that hadith to. Can't you see the hadith is an atomic bomb to wipe off the 1st khalipha? One of my thread "The basis and strife between Abu Bakar and Fatima" highlighted this issue a little only for MacLatunji to hide and banned me for a while.

LagosShia: @ brother Al-Baqir

the usual trash also that being wise and knowing when to fight and not to fight is "cowardice".yet the Prophet (sa) stayed over a decade being abused while not fighting Quraysh.why? because the Prophet (sa) did not have the conditions set to raise up a weapon in self-defense.you don't raise a one man army and think you are defending yourself and not committing suicide.when the time was ripe,Imam Ali (as) faced Aisha (abu bakr's daughter on the battle field) and gave her a good beating in the battle of jamal,as he also faced the army of muawiya (son of abu sufyan,the arch-enemy of the Prophet) in the battle of siffeen and also exposed his treachery.but of course we should forget about the family of the Prophet (sa) and their status to protect the honor of a bunch of "sahaba".Allah (swt) is the best of judges!!!

That's why I told vedaxcool that our Imam was not a rogue. What he expected is the case of Umar at the treaty of Hudaybiyyah questioning the prophet and ready to "fight". This people never stops to question and doubt the personality of their prophet.

LagosShia: @ brother Al-Baqir

with all the many battles Imam Ali (as) singlehandedly changed their course and gave victory to Islam in the time of the Prophet (sa),one just get amazed that sunnis cannot ask themselves why Imam Ali (as) did not participate in one of the many battles under the first 3 sunni caliphs? yet we are meant to believe all was well,and nothing was wrong,and it was all "minor".

The myth of 'all is well' between them has blinded so many to reason that way. 20+years! Ali, the bravest, the best, he who always remain steadfast when all others fled, never participated in any of their administration whatsoever not to mention war. That alone is enough to wake a seeker of truth up that what is going on?
May Allah wake muslims up from their slumber.
Shukran ya akhi wa jazakumullahu khairan.

you are welcome brother,ameen!

with all the ramblings,we are yet to be told why hadiths was banned and burnt by their first 3 caliphs.arent we supposed to follow "Quran and Sunnah" as they like to boast of themselves? why then were hadiths burnt,the very hadiths from which the sunnah is found? we need a simple answer.

PS: I replied to your mail but I didn't receive any response thereafter.

LagosShia: you are welcome brother,ameen!

with all the ramblings,we are yet to be told why hadiths was banned and burnt by their first 3 caliphs.arent we supposed to follow "Quran and Sunnah" as they like to boast of themselves? why then were hadiths burnt,the very hadiths from which the sunnah is found? we need a simple answer.
.

What do you expect? They will never treat the issue lailai.
From the thabas, to vedaxcool, betathings et al. What they know how to do best is derailing from the main topic.

LagosShia:

PS: I replied to your mail but I didn't receive any response thereafter.

Honestly I didn't see your reply. Then, I need an advice on how and where to post "Cold Truth about Umar ibn al-khattab! Cos I know with certainty Mac will hide, delete or ban me for that. I never knew he's the almighty even in the "Religion forum itself". Lol.

Al-Baqir:


You see that's the feeling bro! That's exactly the spirit! You too see that it doesn't make any sense for Imam Ali, the Lion of God, The bravest and ever conqueror of Islam, to just give up just because of people hostility?
Remember I gave you Sahih al-Bukhari's narration and I based that to pinpoint my assertion that there was a rift between them. So you can see how erroneous some narration could be in Sahih al-Bukhari! If I dare to tell you Bukhari falsify or edit...you will be like....Lol

According to a sunni Mu'tazili scholar, Ibn Abil Hadid, who compiled Sharh Nahj al-Balagha, and many host of Shi'a sources, Imam Ali was chained and forced to give bay'a.

Pls don't run away or derail from the question at hand. Why were your shuyukh burnt the sayings of their prophet and barred people from narrating for more than 2 decades?

It seems you make sense only to your self, in one hand you say he was a coward who practied tarqiyyah to save his own neck in another you say he was brave and yet did nothing. Please only in the dreams of extremist shias is Ibn Abil Hadid a sunni ----> and as for why they Rightly guided caliphs burnt hadiths, clearly one can only hope u are not posting with your eyes closed, the op says it all, there no addition to it, we are satisfied that because the sahabas of the prophet pbuh including Ali r.a were in agreement with the actions of this caliphs.

Al-Baqir:

Vedaxcool, don't give me a sheik or a Dr or a pathetic website! I am an inquisitive kind of person and alhamdulillah my collections of both Sunni and shi'a and other school are big enough to soak your claim. Just give me a SHI'A source. Just ONE pls.
How many lies have Ibn Taymiyah, Bilal phillip and the likes have dogmatically proclaim to justify thei pathetic claims. May God disgrace fanaticism.

Did you open the link well let me post what is on the link;


This is how Shi'a Ulama gunned down those hadith that claimed that falacy: imamshirazi.com/history.html

Translation: Ali ibn Ibrahim—from his father—from Ibn Abi ‘Umayr—from Hisham ibn Salim and Hammad—from Zurarah, who narrates that:

“Abu Abdullah (a.s) said about the marriage of Umm Kulthoom: “That was the womanliness that we were forced to give.” (narrated in Furoo al-Kafi, vol.5, p.347)


Translation: Muhammad ibn Abi Umayr—Hisham ibn Salim, who narrates that—Imam Jafar as-Sadiq said:

“When [Umar] proposed to Amir al-Mu’minin, he said, ‘She is a child.’ Then he [Umar] met Abbas and asked him, ‘What is wrong with me? Is there a problem with me?’ Abbas asked, ‘Why?’ Umar replied, ‘I asked your nephew for his daughter’s hand in marriage, and he rejected me. Oh, I swear by Allah, I will fill the well of Zamzam with earth, I will destroy every honor that you have, and I will set up two witnesses to testify that he stole, that I may cut off his right hand.’ Abbas thereupon came to Ali and informed him of what had transpired. He asked Ali to put the matter in his hands, and Ali complied.” (narrated in Furoo al-Kafi, vol.6, p.117)

Translation: Humayd ibn Ziyad—Ibn Sama‘ah—Muhammad ibn Ziyad—Abdullah ibn Sinan—Muawiyyah ibn ‘Ammar—Imam Jafar as-Sadiq:

“I asked him about a woman whose husband died: ‘Should she spend her ‘iddah in her house, or where she wants to?’ He [the Imam] replied, ‘Where she wants to. When Umar died, Ali came and took Umm Kulthoom to his house.’” (narrated in Furoo al-Kafi, vol.6, p.117)

Translation: Humayd ibn Ziyad—Ibn Sama‘ah—Muhammad ibn Ziyad—Abdullah ibn Sinan—Muawiyyah ibn ‘Ammar—Imam Jafar as-Sadiq:

“I asked him about a woman whose husband died: ‘Should she spend her ‘iddah in her house, or where she wants to?’ He [the Imam] replied, ‘Where she wants to. When Umar died, Ali came and took Umm Kulthoom to his house.’” (narrated in Furoo al-Kafi, vol.6, p.117)

“Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (as) said: ‘Umm Kulthoom bint Ali and her son Zayd bin Umar both died at the same time. It was not possible to ascertain who had died first. They did not inherit from one another and their funeral prayers were read at the same time.” “Tadheeb al-Ahkam” (Vol.2, p.380)

Muhammad ibn al-Hasan that “Umar ibn al-Khattab married Umm Kulthum bint Ali with a dowry of 40,000 dirhams”

1- Agha Burzug al-Tahrani’s al-Dhari`a (5:184).
2- Ali ibn Muhammad al-`Alawi’s al-Mujdi fi Ansab al-Talibiyyin (p. 17).
3- Al-Fadil al-Hindi’s Kashf al-Litham (2:312).
4- Al-Hurr al-`Amili’s Wasa’il al-Shi`a Al al-Bayt (15:19, 17:594, 21:263, 26:314).
5- Muhammad ibn Habib al-Baghdadi’s al-Munammaq fi Akhbar Quraysh (p. 301).
6- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Ardabili’s Majma` al-Fa’ida (11:530).
7- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Naraqi’s Mustanad al-Shi`a (19:452).
8- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Sabzawari’s Kifayat al-Ahkam (p. 307).
9- Al-Sayyid Muhammad Sadiq al-Rawhani’s Fiqh al-Sadiq (24:496).
10- Al-Shahid al-Thani’s Masalik al-Afham (13:270).
11- Al-Shaykh al-Amini’s al-Ghadir (6:136-137).
12- Al-Shaykh al-Tusi’s al-Mabsut (4:272).
13- Tahdhib al-Ahkam (9:362-363).
14- Al-Shaykh al-Jawahiri’s Jawahir al-Kalam (39:308).


I was informed by Anas ibn ‘Iyad al-Laythi, who reports on the authority of Jafar ibn Muhammad [as-Sadiq], and he from his father [Muhammad al-Baqir] that—

Umar ibn al-Khattab asked Ali ibn Abi Talib for the hand of Umm Kulthoom in marriage. Ali said, “I had kept my daughters for the sons of Jafar.” Umar said, “Marry her to me, O Abul Hasan, for by Allah,there is no man on the face of the earth who seeks to achieve through her good companionship that which I seek to achieve.” Ali said, “I have done so.”

Then Umar came to the Muhajirun between the grave [of Rasool-Allah] and the pulpit. They—Ali, Uthman, Zubayr, Talhah and Abd ar-Rahman—used to sit there, and whenever a matter used to arrive from the frontiers, Umar used to come to them there and consult with them. He came to them and said, “Congratulate me.” They congratulated him, and asked, “With whom are we congratulating you, O Amir al-Mu’minin?” He replied, “With the daughter of Ali ibn Abi Talib.”

(source: Ibn Sa‘d in his work “at-Tabaqat al-Kubra”, vol.8, p.338, ed. Muhammad ‘Ab al-Qadir ‘Ata, “Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilmiyyah”, Beirut 1990)

Shaykh Tabarsi, a 12th century Shi'a Islamic scholar also believed that Umm Kulthoum binte Ali married Umar. He wrote following in his book I‘lam al-Wara bi-A‘lam al-Huda:
“ As for Umm Kulthoom, she is the one whom Umar ibn al-Khattab married. Our associates say that he (Ali) only married her to him after putting up a lot of resistance, severe refusals and finding excuses. Ultimately he was forced by circumstances to turn her matter over to Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib who married her off.

The shi'a scholar Abul Qasim al-Kufi (died 352 AH) also believed that it was Umm Kulthoum binte Ali who married Umar, but stated that "when Umar asked for the hand of Umm Kulthoom, Ali thought to himself: “If I say no, that thing would come to pass which Rasool-Allah tried to prevent, and for which reason he asked me to exercise patience, which is that people will fall into apostacy.” Thus, it was better to hand over Umm Kulthoom to him.

I hope u would be guided by reason and not resort to deceit and lies like lagoshia.

Al-Baqir:

Lol. Lol. If you want to dialogue, argue or reason with your opponent, you cite or quote his very valuable references not yours.
Go back to all my thread (unfortunately your boss Mac the moderator have hidden some). I will always cite 99% of Sunni references.
Now I know you know NAH'DAH about Fatima, Ali and their blessed marriage.
Even if I quote for you from the Qur'an, Aisha's attitude towards her husband (saws), you might denied.

the question is simple, of Ali can have disagreement with his own wife who should compared to everyone else know him better, then is it out of place for him to disgree with his fellow sahabas?

Al-Baqir:

Point of correction! Mu'awiyah, Talha, Zubair and AISHA wage war against the "rightly Guided Khalipha" of their time. Not the other way round!
At this time, Imam (a.s) was the head of state having all the necessary capability to silence the rebels.

At the time of the 1st khalipha, Islam had many enemies inside and outside, who only await internal discord and strife for them to strike.
And besides no support from any reliable quarter for him. You can compare this with the peace treaty of Hudaybiyah the holy prophet signed with the Mushriqeen, Jew and the likes.
You as a Sunni Muslim, you have Tarikh al-Tabari, Ansab al-Ashraf and many valuable historical books. Go back and read dear brother.

Your ignorannce is willful, when the prophet pbuh received the inspiration of Islam was he the head of Mecca? no! Did have enemies? Yes! where teh enemies both inisde and out? Yes? So u have no point, as long as Ali r.a had numerous oportunity to guide the masses whom you claim were being misled to the right path and decided to do nothing clearly does not speak well anout him, that is why we muslims do not hold foolish thoughts and fantasies rather we hold that Ali was an upright man, who would not cower in fear nor in tarqiyyah!

Al-Baqir:

So you want Imam to be like you and I who are so emotionally controlled that even if we see our "enemies" on the path of destruction, we leave him to destroy himself?
Had it been Imam did not stopped Umar, what will you say? All the world will put an accusing finger on him that he was a selfish man. In fact, I will never follow him as a leader.
Do you want another narration where Umar has ordered a punishment of stoning to a mad woman on account of adultery? My Imam stopped the execution saying: "there's no sin for 3 people..."

Comfort yourself with tale imaginable, Ali r.a and other sahabas was part and parcel of the leadership that took Islam to wide including the Persian empire, that is what common sesnse dictate, and u see how u expose yourself, u claimed he dissociated himsself from the leadership now are saying he was always around passing on advice! u guys are funny.

^^^

-Imam Ali (as) gave her willingly into marriage

-Umar made threats and Imam Ali (as) reluctantly gave her.

-he sent her to Umar's house even before any marriage ceremony,and umar laid his hands upon the grand-daughter of Rasulullah (sa) and the girl called him "vile" and "shameless".Sunnis have no sense of decency even when talking about the daughters of the Prophet (sa).may Allah (swt) never forgive you.it is the curse of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) against their enemies that will continue to hunt you.

-He handed over the matter to Abbass (ra)

WHICH OF THE LIES/CONTARDICTIONS ARE WE TO BELIEVE?

and funniest:

‘Umm Kulthoom bint Ali and her son Zayd bin Umar both died at the same time. It was not possible to ascertain who had died first. They did not inherit from one another and their funeral prayers were read at the same time.”

OH YEAH,IT IS OBVIOUS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ANOTHER Umm Kulthoom.Umm Kulthoom Bint Ali (as) witnessed Karbala and she had no son with her in Karbala,and she was married to a cousin of Imam Ali (as).

the hadiths that Umar married Umm Kulthoom Bint Ali (as) lack a sahabi (companion) and a tabi'ee in the chain of narrators-proof that this was later ummayyad fabrication.

http://www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/verse-wilayah/narrations-from-tabieen.html

AND THE QUESTION YET REMAINS UNANSWERED:

why did they burn the hadiths?

Umar ibn Adheena asked Imam Jafar Sadiq (as):

"People claim that Imam Ali married his daughter to such a person (i.e. Umar) '. The Imam (as), who was until then sitting down, stood up and said angrily, "Whoever holds such a viewpoint is misled." Subhanallah! Was Imam Ali unable to free his daughter from their clutches? He could have stood between them and her to protect, they have fabricated a lie"

Nasihk al-Tawarikh Volume 3 page 408,al-Kafi.

LagosShia: AND THE QUESTION YET REMAINS UNANSWERED:

why did they burn the hadiths?

You know the tactics is to divert attention from the main topic. That's what they know how to do best.

Besides all the narration vedaxcool copy-pasted suggested Umar FORCED the so-called marriage. What they want
is a naql even if it devoid dignity. And in fact that's the reason why Ibn Jawzi, states in his book "Tathkirat Khawas al-Ummah" p 321:

"And by Allah this is vile and despicable, even
if she was a slave Umar may not have done
this to her, and furthermore in accordance
with the unanimous consensus of the scholars
of the Muslims, the touching of a non-Mahram
is not allowed, then how this hadith can be
attributed to Umar?"

For further reading, this another piece:
www.seratonline.com/23374/umars-marriage-to-umm-kulsoom-binte-ali-b-abi-talib-a-s-verdict-of-the-intellect/

The question as you have observed still remain: WHY DID THE 1ST THREE CALIPHs BURNT THE BOOKS OF HADITH AND BANNED NARRATION OF THEIR PROPHET FOR MORE THAN 2DECADES?

1. According to Sunni Historian, the alleged marriage of Bibi Umm kulthum and Umar took place in the 17th year of Hijrah when Umm kulthum was 5years Old.
If the holy prophet (saws) died in the 10th year of Hijrah and Fatima (a.s) died 6months after, how on earth could Umm kulthum have been born after the death of her mother?

2. Umm kulthum, according to this historian was reported to have died in the 50th year of Hijrah. How on earth do they also recorded her presence in Karbala which happened in the 61st year Hijrah?

3. Umar did not just have one wife named umm Kulthum, he had a total of FIVE wives by that name:

Umm Kulthum bint Jarwila Khizima, Umm Kulthum bint Uqba, Umm Kulthum bint Rahab, Umm Kulthum
bint Asim, and then finally Umm Kulthum bint Abu Bakr.

She was born after the death of her father in the year 13 hijri, her mother is Asma bint Umays. She was pregnant with her when Abu Bakr died. They also had one more child before her, guess who, Muhammad
ibn Abu Bakr. A true companion of Imam Ali(as). So just how did she get the title bint Ali. If you clicked on her mothers name, you would have read a brief bio on her and put two and two together, but I will explain it anyway’s. Asma bint Umays Married Imam
Ali(as) after the death of Abu bakr. Imam Ali(as) loved Muhammad ibn Abu bakr very much. So he married his mother shortly to take him in as his own.
So naturally Imam Ali(as) moved them into his home. Now if you do the math that was done earlier on this Umm Kulthum, it works out according to the Sunni hadith.

Shia sources clearly affirms that Umar married Umm Kulthoom ibn Ali


1. Ali ibn Ibrahim—from his father—from Ibn Abi ‘Umayr—from Hisham ibn Salim and Hammad—from Zurarah, who narrates that:

“Abu Abdullah (a.s) said about the marriage of Umm Kulthoom: “That was the womanliness that we were forced to give.” (narrated in Furoo al-Kafi, vol.5, p.347)


2. Translation: Muhammad ibn Abi Umayr—Hisham ibn Salim, who narrates that—Imam Jafar as-Sadiq said:

“When [Umar] proposed to Amir al-Mu’minin, he said, ‘She is a child.’ Then he [Umar] met Abbas and asked him, ‘What is wrong with me? Is there a problem with me?’ Abbas asked, ‘Why?’ Umar replied, ‘I asked your nephew for his daughter’s hand in marriage, and he rejected me. Oh, I swear by Allah, I will fill the well of Zamzam with earth, I will destroy every honor that you have, and I will set up two witnesses to testify that he stole, that I may cut off his right hand.’ Abbas thereupon came to Ali and informed him of what had transpired. He asked Ali to put the matter in his hands, and Ali complied.” (narrated in Furoo al-Kafi, vol.6, p.117)

Translation: Humayd ibn Ziyad—Ibn Sama‘ah—Muhammad ibn Ziyad—Abdullah ibn Sinan—Muawiyyah ibn ‘Ammar—Imam Jafar as-Sadiq:

3. “I asked him about a woman whose husband died: ‘Should she spend her ‘iddah in her house, or where she wants to?’ He [the Imam] replied, ‘Where she wants to. When Umar died, Ali came and took Umm Kulthoom to his house.’” (narrated in Furoo al-Kafi, vol.6, p.117)

4. Translation: Humayd ibn Ziyad—Ibn Sama‘ah—Muhammad ibn Ziyad—Abdullah ibn Sinan—Muawiyyah ibn ‘Ammar—Imam Jafar as-Sadiq:

“I asked him about a woman whose husband died: ‘Should she spend her ‘iddah in her house, or where she wants to?’ He [the Imam] replied, ‘Where she wants to. When Umar died, Ali came and took Umm Kulthoom to his house.’” (narrated in Furoo al-Kafi, vol.6, p.117)

“Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (as) said: ‘Umm Kulthoom bint Ali and her son Zayd bin Umar both died at the same time. It was not possible to ascertain who had died first. They did not inherit from one another and their funeral prayers were read at the same time.” “Tadheeb al-Ahkam” (Vol.2, p.380)

5. Muhammad ibn al-Hasan that “Umar ibn al-Khattab married Umm Kulthum bint Ali with a dowry of 40,000 dirhams”

1- Agha Burzug al-Tahrani’s al-Dhari`a (5:184).
2- Ali ibn Muhammad al-`Alawi’s al-Mujdi fi Ansab al-Talibiyyin (p. 17).
3- Al-Fadil al-Hindi’s Kashf al-Litham (2:312).
4- Al-Hurr al-`Amili’s Wasa’il al-Shi`a Al al-Bayt (15:19, 17:594, 21:263, 26:314).
5- Muhammad ibn Habib al-Baghdadi’s al-Munammaq fi Akhbar Quraysh (p. 301).
6- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Ardabili’s Majma` al-Fa’ida (11:530).
7- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Naraqi’s Mustanad al-Shi`a (19:452).
8- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Sabzawari’s Kifayat al-Ahkam (p. 307).
9- Al-Sayyid Muhammad Sadiq al-Rawhani’s Fiqh al-Sadiq (24:496).
10- Al-Shahid al-Thani’s Masalik al-Afham (13:270).
11- Al-Shaykh al-Amini’s al-Ghadir (6:136-137).
12- Al-Shaykh al-Tusi’s al-Mabsut (4:272).
13- Tahdhib al-Ahkam (9:362-363).
14- Al-Shaykh al-Jawahiri’s Jawahir al-Kalam (39:308).


All the hadith above are from Al kafi, considered the most authetic shias narration around, yet what we see here is a clear case of people disputing history because it does not live up to their own farbricated reality, it is abundantly clear that the Umar did marry Ummkulthoom ibn Ali. Now, no man in his right senses would marry his own daughter to another man he considers evil or in the very least dishonest and devious, but shias and their sources re-affirms try hard to prove that Ali did such feat.

6. I was informed by Anas ibn ‘Iyad al-Laythi, who reports on the authority of Jafar ibn Muhammad [as-Sadiq], and he from his father [Muhammad al-Baqir] that—

Umar ibn al-Khattab asked Ali ibn Abi Talib for the hand of Umm Kulthoom in marriage. Ali said, “I had kept my daughters for the sons of Jafar.” Umar said, “Marry her to me, O Abul Hasan, for by Allah,there is no man on the face of the earth who seeks to achieve through her good companionship that which I seek to achieve.” Ali said, “I have done so.”

Then Umar came to the Muhajirun between the grave [of Rasool-Allah] and the pulpit. They—Ali, Uthman, Zubayr, Talhah and Abd ar-Rahman—used to sit there, and whenever a matter used to arrive from the frontiers, Umar used to come to them there and consult with them. He came to them and said, “Congratulate me.” They congratulated him, and asked, “With whom are we congratulating you, O Amir al-Mu’minin?” He replied, “With the daughter of Ali ibn Abi Talib.”

(source: Ibn Sa‘d in his work “at-Tabaqat al-Kubra”, vol.8, p.338, ed. Muhammad ‘Ab al-Qadir ‘Ata, “Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilmiyyah”, Beirut 1990)

7. Shaykh Tabarsi, a 12th century Shi'a Islamic scholar also believed that Umm Kulthoum binte Ali married Umar. He wrote following in his book I‘lam al-Wara bi-A‘lam al-Huda:
“ As for Umm Kulthoom, she is the one whom Umar ibn al-Khattab married. Our associates say that he (Ali) only married her to him after putting up a lot of resistance, severe refusals and finding excuses. Ultimately he was forced by circumstances to turn her matter over to Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib who married her off.

8. The shi'a scholar Abul Qasim al-Kufi (died 352 AH) also believed that it was Umm Kulthoum binte Ali who married Umar, but stated that "when Umar asked for the hand of Umm Kulthoom, Ali thought to himself: “If I say no, that thing would come to pass which Rasool-Allah tried to prevent, and for which reason he asked me to exercise patience, which is that people will fall into apostacy.” Thus, it was better to hand over Umm Kulthoom to him.

Even a shia historian attests to this fact, the problem is e-noise makers in this thread believe they can delete or change history by simply just writing anything that comes to their mind, Like I always say, it seems after all the allege evil ( a product of the hallucinations of the nasiibs) of Umar r.a, Ali r.a rewarded him with his daughter.

Umm Kulthoom’s marriage was confirmed by Imam Al-Kulayni, who for all intents and purposes is to the Shia who Imam Bukhari is to the Sunnis. It is narrated on the authority of the Infallible Imams themselves, namely Imam Jafar as-Sadiq. Not a single Shia scholar denied this marriage for four centuries, Shia heavyweights as Abul Qasim Al-Kufi, Sayyid Murtada (brother of the compiler of “Nahjul Balagha”), at-Tabarsi (the Shia mufassir of the 6th century), Shaykh ‘Abd an-Nabi al-Kazimi, and pretty much every other Shia scholar before the 5th century AH. Among the Shia sources that narrate the fact of this marriage from Imam Muhammad al-Baqir with the statement “Umm Kulthum bint Ali ibn Abi Talib died at the same time as her son Zayd ibn Umar ibn al-Khattab” and the narration from Muhammad ibn al-Hasan that “Umar ibn al-Khattab married Umm Kulthum bint Ali with a dowry of 40,000 dirhams” are the following:

1- Agha Burzug al-Tahrani’s al-Dhari`a (5:184).
2- Ali ibn Muhammad al-`Alawi’s al-Mujdi fi Ansab al-Talibiyyin (p. 17).
3- Al-Fadil al-Hindi’s Kashf al-Litham (2:312).
4- Al-Hurr al-`Amili’s Wasa’il al-Shi`a Al al-Bayt (15:19, 17:594, 21:263, 26:314).
5- Muhammad ibn Habib al-Baghdadi’s al-Munammaq fi Akhbar Quraysh (p. 301).
6- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Ardabili’s Majma` al-Fa’ida (11:530).
7- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Naraqi’s Mustanad al-Shi`a (19:452).
8- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Sabzawari’s Kifayat al-Ahkam (p. 307).
9- Al-Sayyid Muhammad Sadiq al-Rawhani’s Fiqh al-Sadiq (24:496).
10- Al-Shahid al-Thani’s Masalik al-Afham (13:270).
11- Al-Shaykh al-Amini’s al-Ghadir (6:136-137).
12- Al-Shaykh al-Tusi’s al-Mabsut (4:272).
13- Tahdhib al-Ahkam (9:362-363).
14- Al-Shaykh al-Jawahiri’s Jawahir al-Kalam (39:308).

There u have it, the forerunners of Shia accepted and propagated the fact that Umm kultoom ibn Ali married Umar r.a, yet we are faced with a people who would deny their the existence of their own leg if it would comfort them that the path they have chosen is credible and acceptable. The marriage between Umar and the daughter of Ali, clearly shows that the so called enmity between Umar and Ali are clearly just dreamt up by people who are bent on just regurgitating uncritical lies and slander they have been thought.

Salamu alaykum. Please brothers and sister i beg of you to leave al baqir and lagosshia and other shias alone. They intention is to make you muslims hate Ali r.a. I believe they have given there allegiance to the west. They are friends with obama and they been used to destroy islam.

kaybyte: Salamu alaykum. Please brothers and sister i beg of you to leave al baqir and lagosshia and other shias alone. They intention is to make you muslims hate Ali r.a. I believe they have given there allegiance to the west. They are friends with obama and they been used to destroy islam.

Lol...saudi arabia (america's and israel ally in the muslim world) isnt Shia.they are not only Sunni,but also Wahhabi/Salafist.

Stupidity reigns supreme on nairaland.

Mr.Vedaxcool,the person whose heart is pulled apart,the question isnt about whether Imam Sadeq (as) said Umar married an Umm Kulthum or not.the question is which Umm Kulthum? Was she the biological daughter of Imam Ali (as) or the adopted daughter that was the biological daughter of abu bakr,umar's greatest friend and accomplice?

Umar's marriage to one million umm kulthums will not conceal his actions and doings.what he did will remain what he did.

vedaxcool: Umm Kulthoom’s marriage was confirmed by Imam Al-Kulayni, who for all intents and purposes is to the Shia who Imam Bukhari is to the Sunnis. It is narrated on the authority of the Infallible Imams themselves, namely Imam Jafar as-Sadiq. Not a single Shia scholar denied this marriage for four centuries, Shia heavyweights as Abul Qasim Al-Kufi, Sayyid Murtada (brother of the compiler of “Nahjul Balagha”), at-Tabarsi (the Shia mufassir of the 6th century), Shaykh ‘Abd an-Nabi al-Kazimi, and pretty much every other Shia scholar before the 5th century AH. Among the Shia sources that narrate the fact of this marriage from Imam Muhammad al-Baqir with the statement “Umm Kulthum bint Ali ibn Abi Talib died at the same time as her son Zayd ibn Umar ibn al-Khattab” and the narration from Muhammad ibn al-Hasan that “Umar ibn al-Khattab married Umm Kulthum bint Ali with a dowry of 40,000 dirhams” are the following:

1- Agha Burzug al-Tahrani’s al-Dhari`a (5:184).
2- Ali ibn Muhammad al-`Alawi’s al-Mujdi fi Ansab al-Talibiyyin (p. 17).
3- Al-Fadil al-Hindi’s Kashf al-Litham (2:312).
4- Al-Hurr al-`Amili’s Wasa’il al-Shi`a Al al-Bayt (15:19, 17:594, 21:263, 26:314).
5- Muhammad ibn Habib al-Baghdadi’s al-Munammaq fi Akhbar Quraysh (p. 301).
6- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Ardabili’s Majma` al-Fa’ida (11:530).
7- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Naraqi’s Mustanad al-Shi`a (19:452).
8- Al-Muhaqqiq al-Sabzawari’s Kifayat al-Ahkam (p. 307).
9- Al-Sayyid Muhammad Sadiq al-Rawhani’s Fiqh al-Sadiq (24:496).
10- Al-Shahid al-Thani’s Masalik al-Afham (13:270).
11- Al-Shaykh al-Amini’s al-Ghadir (6:136-137).
12- Al-Shaykh al-Tusi’s al-Mabsut (4:272).
13- Tahdhib al-Ahkam (9:362-363).
14- Al-Shaykh al-Jawahiri’s Jawahir al-Kalam (39:308).

There u have it, the forerunners of Shia accepted and propagated the fact that Umm kultoom ibn Ali married Umar r.a, yet we are faced with a people who would deny their the existence of their own leg if it would comfort them that the path they have chosen is credible and acceptable. The marriage between Umar and the daughter of Ali, clearly shows that the so called enmity between Umar and Ali are clearly just dreamt up by people who are bent on just regurgitating uncritical lies and slander they have been thought.

You are simply exposing your weakness brother. The main thread is clear and here you are diverting attention. Anyway, another thread has been open on the issue of Imam Ali (a.s) naming his sons with Abu bakar, umar et al; and Marrying his daughter to Umar!

www.nairaland.com/1540743/imam-ali-named-sons-abu#1540743.1

Read the link provided there (www.iqraonline.net/reply-to-sheikh-mumtaz-ul-haq/) and let's discuss sensibly rather than vetting your pain all over.

kaybyte: Salamu alaykum. Please brothers and sister i beg of you to leave al baqir and lagosshia and other shias alone. They intention is to make you muslims hate Ali r.a. I believe they have given there allegiance to the west. They are friends with obama and they been used to destroy islam.

Lol! Lol! Different kind of people on this forum.

Let me give you a saying of Imam Ali (a.s):

"The mouth of a wise is in his heart while the heart of a fool is in his mouth"

Heart here depict centre of intelligence.

LagosShia:

Lol...saudi arabia (america's and israel ally in the muslim world) isnt Shia.they are not only Sunni,but also Wahhabi/Salafist.

Stupidity reigns supreme on nairaland.

i pity you shiits and your concocted way of islam.

LagosShia: Mr.Vedaxcool,the person whose heart is pulled apart,the question isnt about whether Imam Sadeq (as) said Umar married an Umm Kulthum or not.the question is which Umm Kulthum? Was she the biological daughter of Imam Ali (as) or the adopted daughter that was the biological daughter of abu bakr,umar's greatest friend and accomplice?

Umar's marriage to one million umm kulthums will not conceal his actions and doings.what he did will remain what he did.

hahahahaha. Nawa o. Animal fools in human skin.