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Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by usisky(m): 8:49am On Dec 14, 2013
Double Post
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by usisky(m): 8:49am On Dec 14, 2013
[size=13pt]
Peace to All!!
Swagalord18: Atheists like logical thinking ....now here's logic

All sane and rational person(s) should embrace logical reasoning, Atheists or Theists. So, logic should not be seen as the exclusive forte of
the Atheists.

Swagalord18:
You believe in the "big bang/evolution" theory?

These theories have been scientifically proven to be plausible, but not without some quirks. For example, claiming that evolution
was an unguided process spawned by 'random' chain of events is bereft of academic soundness and should be rejected by the 'scientific'
community.

Swagalord18:
what is the origin of that "spinning ball of matter"?"
"where did the raw materials for the 'forming' of the universe come from, if there is no creator"

One may not know the exact origin of matter/energy, but one thing is certain: matter/energy cannot be self-created nor could it be
said to have being eternal. An eternal matter/energy gives rise to a paradox; laws of thermodynamics tells us matter/energy cannot be
created nor can it be destroyed, but transformation is possible. So, how could matter/energy have always existed?

Swagalord18:
These all point to creation, but if you have another posssible means, ....please state

If experience is anything to go by, then, your conclusion wouldn't be far-fetched. By experience, we have never observed matter
come in and out of existence at will. So, it is safe to say something EXTERNAL may have influenced the very first occurrence of
primordial matter(remember Newton's laws).

By experience, we know that any system that exhibits predictability, repeat-ability(perpetually) and coherence cannot be ascribed to random/chance.

[/size]
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by sushieater: 8:58am On Dec 14, 2013
This same old boring argument again, if you insist that the creator of this creation you're talking about could come from nothing, why can't the creation(universe) come from nothing just like amanfrommars asked?

If the creator not having a beginning is not a problem for you and other
defenders of this argument, why is it a problem for the natural universe? It appears to be a wholly arbitrary choice.

To answer this, we must look at a further problem. Some might reply this and insist that the decision is not arbitrary, and that
The creator must be allowed to have these attributes that your argument seems to imply.

The person may say that the argument is an attempt to show the
need for there to be a creator that has the attributes that we cannot find in the universe. The person might say that because we know that everything in the universe needs a cause and that the idea of infinite time is nonsense, there must be this creator with these unique attributes. That is, there must be this creator that does not begin, has no creator, and is thus able to create the universe. But this is just a bald assertion.

The lack of human imagination when it comes to solving mysteries at the boundaries of current knowledge is not a good reason to invoke a hypothetical entity with mysterious powers that enable it to be immune from paradoxes.

In order to explain something apparently designed and which cannot create itself, a creator is conjured into existence which would require even more unlikely explanation.
It sounds more like the problem of special pleading, so is no better off.

P/S: I'm not an Atheist and would never be, but your logic is not that sound to convince these guys.

1 Like

Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by usisky(m): 9:08am On Dec 14, 2013
unmask: Who created God?

[size=13pt]
Yes, your question is very apt and a crucial one. But as academicians, i think what we ought to do is adhere to academic research
methodologies. Is there a god, who created god etcetera should come last in our order of research. The most important question-i think-should be whether or not the universe and its constituents were created. And that to me, from all indications, is a very STRONG yes(if all biases are removed).
[/size]
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by MrTroll(m): 9:13am On Dec 14, 2013
usisky: [size=13pt]
Peace to All!!


All sane and rational person(s) should embrace logical reasoning, Atheists or Theists. So, logic should not be seen as the exclusive forte of
the Atheists.



These theories have been scientifically proven to be plausible, although, not without a few quirk. For example, claiming that evolution
was an unguided process spawned by 'random' chain of events is bereft of academic soundness and should be rejected by the 'scientific'
community.



One may not know the exact origin of matter/energy, but one thing is certain: matter/energy cannot be self-created nor could it be
said to have being eternal. An eternal matter/energy gives rise to a paradox; laws of thermodynamics tells us matter/energy cannot be
created nor can it be destroyed, but transformation is possible. So, how could matter/energy have always existed?



If experience is anything to go by, then, your conclusion wouldn't be far-fetched. By experience, we have never observed matter
come in and out of existence at will. So, it is safe to say something EXTERNAL may have influenced the very first occurrence of
primordial matter(remember Newton's laws).

By experience, we know that any system that exhibits predictability, repeat-ability(perpetually) and coherence cannot be ascribed to random/chance.

[/size]
reread @bold again. You just shot yourself in the foot.
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by usisky(m): 9:22am On Dec 14, 2013
Mr Troll: reread @bold again. You just shot yourself in the foot.

[size=13pt]
Peace Mr.

Hasty judgment Sir. Did you not read this part:
usisky: "....So, it is safe to say something EXTERNAL may have influenced the very first occurrence of primordial matter(remember Newton's laws)."?"
[/size]
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by Nobody: 9:23am On Dec 14, 2013
To say there is no God, means u do not believe in the supernatural/extraordinary/spiritual and that's where these atheists are getting it wrong.

You only need to look around you to see evidence of these.
Go back to your villages and tell me all the native doctors there are powerless.
All my brothers in the east (without being tribalistic) look around you and tell me that people who do rituals for blood money, occults and other forms of dark powers do not exist.

You don't even need to go back as far as creation.
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by Nobody: 9:24am On Dec 14, 2013
Mr Troll: reread @bold again. You just shot yourself in the foot.

Hehehe, and he shoots himself in the foot again. Matter/energy could not be created but something external might have created it grin grin

2 Likes

Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by usisky(m): 9:28am On Dec 14, 2013
rationalmind:

Hehehe, and he shoots himself in the foot again. Matter/energy could not be created but something external might have created it grin grin

[size=13pt]i.e according to human(with severely limited knowledge) propounded law: "Laws of Thermodynamics"
[/size]
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by MrTroll(m): 9:33am On Dec 14, 2013
usisky:

i.e according to human(with severely limited knowledge) propounded law: "Laws of Thermodynamics"
ok. So you dont accept the law? But you referenced it?
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by Nobody: 9:33am On Dec 14, 2013
usisky:

i.e according to human(with severely limited knowledge) propounded law: "Laws of Thermodynamics"

Hehehe, and with that same human severely limited knowledge, you claim the universe must have had a creator. Keep shooting yourself in the foot
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by Areaboy2(m): 9:37am On Dec 14, 2013
rationalmind:

Hehehe, and he shoots himself in the foot again. Matter/energy could not be created but something external might have created it grin grin

Hahahahahahaha
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by usisky(m): 9:37am On Dec 14, 2013
Mr Troll: ok. So you dont accept the law? But you referenced it?
[size=13pt]
Was just trying to highlight the contradiction it poses: Matter exists, yet it said nothing can create it. I think this should trouble any
sincere academician/thinker.[/size]
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by MrTroll(m): 9:49am On Dec 14, 2013
usisky:

Was just trying to highlight the contradiction it poses: Matter exists, yet it said nothing can create it. I think this should trouble any
sincere academician/thinker.
there is no contradiction there, except in your brain.
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by usisky(m): 10:00am On Dec 14, 2013
rationalmind:

Hehehe, and with that same human severely limited knowledge, you claim the universe must have had a creator. Keep shooting yourself in the foot
[size=13pt]
We have laws that tell us what is probable or improbable as the case may be. The most advanced creation of man today
is the modern computer. Do you think that given sufficient time and all available materials(silicon etc) needed to put it together, if we simulated 'randomness' by putting this material(silicon et al) in a concrete mixer(not random enough but that will do) for about 16 billion years, do you think after this time elapses we'll have a product as the computer coming outta this 'random' simulated environment? If yes, then explain how. If no, then know that it is in the same vain that RATIONAL minds emphatically conclude that the universe must have had a beginning and therefore a creator. Mind you, this is just a computer which is not even near in comparison to the universe as a whole.

The closest example to the computer is the human brain. And according to logical inference, if subject A(brain) has similar characteristics as
subject B(computer), then, what is in B must be in A. Therefore, if we agree that 'chance' could not bring about the creation of the computer,
then it logically follows too that the brain cannot be a product of 'chance'.[/size]

1 Like

Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by usisky(m): 10:00am On Dec 14, 2013
Double post...
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by Ranchhoddas: 10:04am On Dec 14, 2013
Oghos1: To say there is no God, means u do not believe in the supernatural/extraordinary/spiritual and that's where these atheists are getting it wrong.

You only need to look around you to see evidence of these.
Go back to your villages and tell me all the native doctors there are powerless.
All my brothers in the east (without being tribalistic) look around you and tell me that people who do rituals for blood money, occults and other forms of dark powers do not exist.

You don't even need to go back as far as creation.



10000 likes
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by usisky(m): 10:11am On Dec 14, 2013
Mr Troll: there is no contradiction there, except in your brain.

Thanks for the complement......
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by Nobody: 10:56am On Dec 14, 2013
usisky:
[size=13pt]
We have laws that tell us what is probable or improbable as the case may be. The most advanced creation of man today
is the modern computer. Do you think that given sufficient time and all available materials(silicon etc) needed to put it together, if we simulated 'randomness' by putting this material(silicon et al) in a concrete mixer(not random enough but that will do) for about 16 billion years, do you think after this time elapses we'll have a product as the computer coming outta this 'random' simulated environment? If yes, then explain how. If no, then know that it is in the same vain that RATIONAL minds emphatically conclude that the universe must have had a beginning and therefore a creator. Mind you, this is just a computer which is not even near in comparison to the universe as a whole.

The closest example to the computer is the human brain. And according to logical inference, if subject A(brain) has similar characteristics as
subject B(computer), then, what is in B must be in A. Therefore, if we agree that 'chance' could not bring about the creation of the computer,
then it logically follows too that the brain cannot be a product of 'chance'.[/size]

Except that no one says anything is a product of chance
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by usisky(m): 11:14am On Dec 14, 2013
rationalmind:
Except that no one says anything is a product of chance
[size=13pt]
You would then agree with me that when something is not a product of 'randomness/chance', it must then, as a natural consequence,
be product of DELIBERATE construction..No?
[/size]
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by Nobody: 12:14pm On Dec 14, 2013
usisky:
[size=13pt]
You would then agree with me that when something is not a product of 'randomness/chance', it must then, as a natural consequence,
be product of DELIBERATE construction..No?
[/size]

No, it won't. Taking the brain as an example, its a product of natural selection not randomness/chance neither is it deliberate construction.

Quantum mechanics is really revolutionalizing the age hold belief that something can't come out from nothing. As a matter of fact, something can indeed come out from nothing.
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by macof(m): 1:35pm On Dec 14, 2013
rationalmind:

No, natural selection is the answer not chance.
forward

smiley yet u think spirituality is nonsense.
Where did science come about that conclusion? This is wat our ancestors have known for over 6000yrs
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by macof(m): 1:50pm On Dec 14, 2013
unmask: Who created God?

Man
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by macof(m): 1:52pm On Dec 14, 2013
obisage: I am not an Atheist, neither am I a religious extremist.
but as a Christian, I really wanna understand what I
believe in. I want to know whom I worship.

I am not worshipping God cos I was born in a Christian family
I'm doing so cos I have had my time to find out if truly this
being/deity called God really exist.
And truly HE DOES EXIST!!!

here are some reason why I really believe he exist:
everything is the world is orderly.
there are rules guiding everything.
look at the law of rain recycling
look at the law of planting a seed;
when it dies, it comes to life again.

but for now, I don't go to church.
I worship God in my house.

Wat makes u think christian God is responsible for that?
Have u examined wat ur anceatral spirituality has to say about the "Creator"
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by macof(m): 2:02pm On Dec 14, 2013
Swagalord18:
off context
.
.
I never said "God created" ...so u can go ahead and answer me

U don't need to say it, it's obvious that's where u are headed

U seem like a criminal
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by macof(m): 2:05pm On Dec 14, 2013
aManFromMars: If God created, from what did he create. The artist needs crayons, paint and a canvas.

- is he in our universe? Can we have access to him? The characters in a book can never have access to the author's mind.

Most importantly, would an omni-x God be bothered about belief or lack of belief of his creations?


True because the creator doesn't care wat humans do or say, beliefs are irrelevant in the spiritual realm
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by macof(m): 2:32pm On Dec 14, 2013
Oghos1: To say there is no God, means u do not believe in the supernatural/extraordinary/spiritual and that's where these atheists are getting it wrong.

You only need to look around you to see evidence of these.
Go back to your villages and tell me all the native doctors there are powerless.
All my brothers in the east (without being tribalistic) look around you and tell me that people who do rituals for blood money, occults and other forms of dark powers do not exist.

You don't even need to go back as far as creation.




True but this has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

I would have addressed this but I'll leave this for another time
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by macof(m): 2:33pm On Dec 14, 2013
rationalmind:

Hehehe, and he shoots himself in the foot again. Matter/energy could not be created but something external might have created it grin grin

grin grin the guy has been trying to hit somethings but he probably doesn't understand himself
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by macof(m): 2:40pm On Dec 14, 2013
usisky:
[size=13pt]
You would then agree with me that when something is not a product of 'randomness/chance', it must then, as a natural consequence,
be product of DELIBERATE construction..No?
[/size]

Conscious movements doesn't necessarily denote Deliberate construction
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by macof(m): 2:46pm On Dec 14, 2013
usisky:
[size=13pt]
Was just trying to highlight the contradiction it poses: Matter exists, yet it said nothing can create it. I think this should trouble any
sincere academician/thinker.[/size]


Matter is formed from interactions between atoms carried by certain Energies.
Like I said conscious movements
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by macof(m): 3:03pm On Dec 14, 2013
Swagalord18:
lmao .....so natural selection brought about the universe from nothing

U didn't understand Jim, but lemme add something from my philosophy

I would like to use the term "Omniverse" has the cosmic oneness of all realms(including our universe)

The universe came from something, it came from another universe
The Omniverse comprises all that is, was and ever would be. Energy is a force or an entity responsible for a force.
The Forces of creation were motored by certain Energies that leaked away from a certain universe which triggered the big bang.

The first force being light made the environ hot and dense causing expansion and forming space, after this the space cooled off and brought the presence of the dark energy caring subatoms which in turn broke down to form elements creating matter
Re: For Those that doubt the existence of a supernatural being by Nobody: 6:37pm On Dec 14, 2013
Mr Troll: what nonsense is this?

Earths perfect position? I'm sure you got deeply educated by answersingenesis.
wrong X

Mr Troll: Btw, you don't know me so stop the foolish assumption that you have been in my s
i'v gathered enough to know how you think

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