Ok, the Quoran was dictated by Muhammad but, according to the Quoran it did not originate with Muhammad. saying this, then obviously Islam began long before Muhammad ever walked the earth. . . . .hence my question "does Islam come from the decendants of Ishmael the first son of Abraham?

Quran 42 v 13: The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Nuh, that which We have sent by inspiration to thee and that which We enjoined on Ibrahim, Musa, and `Isa: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in Religion, and make no divisions therein.

thanks. How come Muhammad never saw Allah?. The only ones who had seen Allah were Adam (as) and Hawa(Eve) the only one who spoke with Allah was prophet Moussa(Moses).

the Quran says, "No vision can encompass Him". And it also says that, Allah is tooo high for a human to interact with him EXCEPT either through inspiration OR through a barrier e.g. Allah talked to Moses through a barrier. Even Moses never saw Him. He could NOT.

There is a similarity in the Holy Bible. Could it be our God (the Father of Jesus) is the same God Muhammad spoke to.

***Talking to myself***Let me see, now God (Father to Jesus) created Adam and Eve.

@Cayon:
No where in the Qur'an, that Adam or Hawa ever laid eyes on Allah. They heard His voice. Musa also heard His voice without ever seeing Him. Muhammad (AS), also heard His voice. But Muhammad also assured the believers that in Paradise they will see Allah, as people on earth see a full moon, on a clear night. It may be the lights from the All Majesty, since humans on earth only see the light from the Moon.

In any case, the people of Paradise will see Goodness from Allah, which will be forbidden and the inmates of Hell shall not be entitled to see.

babs787:

Quran 42 v 13: The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Nuh, that which We have sent by inspiration to thee and that which We enjoined on Ibrahim, Musa, and `Isa: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in Religion, and make no divisions therein.

where are all these messages? Is it so hard for muslims to find it?

What do you mean, David, by "these messages?" Where do you think that Babs787 quoted from, except from Qur'an? Have the gut to open the Book and read it, for your own knowledge. Just throwing a tirade and going into frenzy should not be the position that you take. Knowledge is power, man.

Finally, there is a new thread declaring that Jesus never died. I just watched a lengthy Youtube video on it. Informative, I will say. Check it out.

@poster
Now this is interesting. Islam has been the religion of Allah even since the creation of Adam the first human being. That is why the scripture according to the law of Moses says :"thou shall not serve any other god besides your God". The fact that many people reject Allah who by His Wisdom revealed the Quran does not change the fact that He is their Creator. I have a problem understanding someone who listens the Quran and still sees it otherwise. Allah claims to have sent Moses, Jacob,Jonah and all the prophets in the bible.
Many Christians try to assume that Allah and Mohammed are just forcing them to join Islam, but the reality is that Allah beg not any. It is you that should ask Him and if He will guides.
It is very irrational for you to think that Allah is another God besides Him who called Himself Jehovah, and so on. Whether people like it or not, Allah revealed the gospel(am not talking about,father and son) and also the Old testament(five books of Moses) and the psalms. That God is Allah.

@davidlyan
Since you are known to always agrue blindly (without any understanding whatsoever) I reserve my comment.

olabowale:

What do you mean, David, by "these messages?" Where do you think that Babs787 quoted from, except from Qur'an? Have the gut to open the Book and read it, for your own knowledge. Just throwing a tirade and going into frenzy should not be the position that you take. Knowledge is power, man.

Finally, there is a new thread declaring that Jesus never died. I just watched a lengthy Youtube video on it. Informative, I will say. Check it out.

Thou hypocrite, can i open the quran and read the message of Nuh there? Where is the message of Moses in that quran? What of that of "prophet Adam", and David?

Frizy:

@davidlyan
Since you are known to always agrue blindly (without any understanding whatsoever) I reserve my comment.

hypocrite . . . care to provide the messages allah lied he had sent?

@Davidylan:

Thou hypocrite, can i open the quran and read the message of Nuh there? Where is the message of Moses in that quran? What of that of "prophet Adam", and David?

O ga o. Hypocrite ke? If I have a dollar for ech time you call me a hypocrite, by now i should have become a Billionaire! Read the messages of these prophets in the Qur'an, by searching their names and reading the essence of their sub messages. Of course the message of all prophet is the same: There is deity worth of any worship, except the Deity (ALLAH).

Mo pe iwo ogbeni yi. o ri ago mi ni?

I think David should start reading Qu'ran now.

olabowale:

@Davidylan:
O ga o. Hypocrite ke? If I have a dollar for ech time you call me a hypocrite, by now i should have become a Billionaire! Read the messages of these prophets in the Qur'an, by searching their names and reading the essence of their sub messages. Of course the message of all prophet is the same: There is deity worth of any worship, except the Deity (ALLAH).

Mo pe iwo ogbeni yi. o ri ago mi ni?

There are no "messages" there. Where are David's psalms? Even ordinary historians have it . . . what of the message of Noah, Jonah?
What is a "submessage"?

littleb:

I think David should start reading Qu'ran now.

Show me the messages first you liars.

@Davidylan:« #10 on: Today at 05:46:13 PM »

There are no "messages" there. Where are David's psalms? Even ordinary historians have it . . . what of the message of Noah, Jonah?
What is a "submessage"?

What is Laa ilaha ilallah, except that it is the First and primary message of each and every prophet/messenger?

And you think Islam is like your Christianity, where the mundane takes center stage? You think the Psalm of David will be catelogued like you have it in the Bible? Omo boy, Soki lobe Oge! The way Allah simply mentioned it, is enough and we know about David's slaying of the disbelieving Goliat. When anyone speaks about King David, Goliat is always the first thing the mind goes to!

Ha, Noah's ark. yes, its in there. Like already perfected sauce, it sticks to the ribs. Qur'an sticks to the memory.

Finally, all the other messages are submessages to Laa ilaha ilallah.

Read, man.

Isamel is the one who was sacrificed because the big bad jews wanted to hide that knowledge form us so people can have pity on them and give them theri own country and so one day Islam was born and all men will see the light and we can know who is telling the truth and who is lying and then we can kill each other and Allah will judge the ones we have killed and when the whole world becomes Islamic then the world will end and we will be singing the dancing and no more hate in the world and all the people are one and the same and then we wil look down at the ones in Hell and laugh at their anguish saying you see we told you so but you didn't listen now BURN BABY BURN!!!


AND THAT IS THE END OF MY STORY.

olabowale:

What is Laa ilaha ilallah, except that it is the First and primary message of each and every prophet/messenger?

You hypocrite, all the other 1 billion muslims today make the same cry everyday, are they all messengers and prophets of allah? Produce the messages allah specifically claimed to have sent or shut up.

olabowale:

And you think Islam is like your Christianity, where the mundane takes center stage? You think the Psalm of David will be catelogued like you have it in the Bible?

Same old fraudulent excuse we get when the emptiness of the koran is exposed.

The koran is so not full of mundane stuff and yet satanic verses found their way into it?

You make me laugh in Chinese.

@Davidylan: « #13 on: Yesterday at 08:56:57 PM »
[Quote]
You hypocrite, all the other 1 billion muslims today make the same cry everyday, are they all messengers and prophets of allah? Produce the messages allah specifically claimed to have sent or shut up.
[/quote]

The Over a Billion Muslims are immetating all the Prophets and Messengers, instead. The last Messenger, Prophet Muhammad (AS), they follow, in Sunnah, and in the Book, Qur'an given to him. It is also by this that any part of the Torah, Sabur and Injil and their prophetic Sunnah that you see the muslims believe or practice is accepted. Qur'an and Sunnah of Muhammad abrogated all, except what is allowed.

For example that is the reason you will never find muslims not been able to eat meat and dairy together. We left that alone for Israel (Jacob) and his Children! And saying Laa ilaha ilallah, should have indicated to you that we follow and we do not have to be prophet to say it.

Just to amuse myself in Chinese; do you become the only begotten son, when you are copying Jesus? Rather the Bible says that Jesus said that you will do greater work than what he did, by your believe in him. Please tell me what equal work you have done? Then be kind enough to tell me what greater work has any of you done? If you can find any, please note that this is yet another prophetic saying that is unfulfilled in 2000 years! You dig, bruda man?

lol.






[Quote]
Same old fraudulent excuse we get when the emptiness of the koran is exposed.

The koran is so not full of mundane stuff and yet satanic verses found their way into it?

You make me laugh in Chinese
[/quote]

I already have my fun in mandarin. Please see it above. Just imagine the word of your god, or your god manifested to man, yet while he was still god, the Satan was able to drive him into the wilderness, and then control him for additional 3 events. Needless to say the unseasonally fruit is desired and it is the cause of cursing an obedient tree to die.

Ogbeni, bawo ni? O ki ngbele ni? Mo pee o. I wo lo dawun o.

Cayon:

Ok, the Quoran was dictated by Muhammad ?

As if what you are saying is a fact, you say a lie and start to believe it.

God (SWT, Glory and Praises to be to Him) says in Holy Quran: (In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful: We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms. Of some apostles We have already told thee the story; of others We have not and to Moses Allah spoke directly. Messengers who gave good news as well as warning, that mankind, (after the apostles), should have no plea against Allah. For Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.   Al Nisa, verses 163 - 165

shalata:

As if what you are saying is a fact, you say a lie and start to believe it.

God (SWT, Glory and Praises to be to Him) says in Holy Quran: (In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful: [size=14pt]We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.[/size] Of some apostles We have already told thee the story; of others We have not and to Moses Allah spoke directly. Messengers who gave good news as well as warning, that mankind, (after the apostles), should have no plea against Allah. For Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. Al Nisa, verses 163 - 165

that is all fraudulent. Where are the "inspirations" sent to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aron, Solomon and David? Why are the psalms of David found only in the "corrupt" bible? Why did Moses get to speak to "allah" directly and Mohammad, allegedly the greatest prophet, could not?

Where are the warnings of the apostles and who are they?

All these liars cant fail to surprise you. Bleating the very same unproven falsehood they've been taught to swallow hook line and sinker.

@Davidylan: « #16 on: Today at 06:14:23 PM »
[Quote]
that is all fraudulent. Where are the "inspirations" sent to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aron, Solomon and David? Why are the psalms of David found only in the "corrupt" bible? Why did Moses get to speak to "allah" directly and Mohammad, allegedly the greatest prophet, could not?
Where are the warnings of the apostles and who are they?

All these liars can't fail to surprise you. Bleating the very same unproven falsehood they've been taught to swallow hook line and sinker.
[/quote]

Apostles are also Messengers, Prophets. I kinda wanna remind you that in Isra Miraj, Muhammad (AS), received the four (4) ending verses of Suratul Baqarah from Allah, without Jibril (as).

And on the same journey, at the same time, received the the instructions of salah, and the tashahuud of Salah, was primary exchage of greetings between the Prophet and his Lord, Allah the Almighty. Now tell me, how was it that he did not speak with Allah, directly?

Finally, if you think the Psalm of Daud (as), will appear in the Qur'an as it appears in the Bible, with all the "Song and dance" routine, you must be kidding me. Qur'an is in a class by itself. Only the relevant is in it. There is not waste of space and unnecessary details or story telling.

Check out the journalism in the story of Moses, or Joseph or even what is stated about Jesus. Each is complete without the mundaneness of the corrupt Bible.

LOL. Dafidi.

Olabowale:

Funny how Mu$lims Muslims believe in 4 holy scripture as main scriptures - torah, psalms of david, injeel (the gospel)  and the Holy Quoran but for some reason they "stay focus" on the Quoran.  Why? is it b/c they are running from the truth?
(We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them (3:84 AYA).)

The first Quoran passage clearly states that Muslims must give all scripture, apostles, etc. the same respect.  so, where is the respect dude?

The unfortunate thing is that the Quoran is in Arabic and many muslims cannot read Arabic and so do not know what is in the Quran. So they make it up as they go along,  . . . . . . . . ALUTA CONTINUA

Peace

One can see you have no understanding of your very own Quoran. Meditate on this then wheel and come again.

O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Apostle, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Apostle and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Apostles, and the Day of Judgement, hath gone far, far astray (4:136 AYA).

Peace

morpheus24:

Isamel is the one who was sacrificed because the big bad jews wanted to hide that knowledge form us so people can have pity on them and give them theri own country and so one day Islam was born and all men will see the light and we can know who is telling the truth and who is lying and then we can kill each other and Allah will judge the ones we have killed and when the whole world becomes Islamic then the world will end and we will be singing the dancing and no more hate in the world and all the people are one and the same and then we wil look down at the ones in Hell and laugh at their anguish saying you see we told you so but you didn't listen now BURN BABY BURN!!!


AND THAT IS THE END OF MY STORY.

olabowale:

@Davidylan: « #16 on: Today at 06:14:23 PM »
Apostles are also Messengers, Prophets. I kind of want to remind you that in Isra Miraj, Muhammad (AS), received the four (4) ending verses of Suratul Baqarah from Allah, without Jibril (as).

Thou liar, apostle means - A passionate adherent; a strong supporter. It was first used in the bible to refer to the 12 disciples/followers of Christ and has a distinct meaning from that of a prophet who may NOT be followers of anyone. Who are these apostles allah spoke of?

olabowale:

Finally, if you think the Psalm of Daud (as), will appear in the Qur'an as it appears in the Bible, with all the "Song and dance" routine, you must be kidding me.

In what form does it appear in the quran? That is if it even appears AT ALL. Where is it? Any form will do pls.

olabowale:

Qur'an is in a class by itself. Only the relevant is in it. There is not waste of space and unnecessary details or story telling.

that's true, a class of deciet, distortion and confusion. See what Cayon posted earlier from that your islam - (We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them (3:84 AYA)

Since you make NO distinction between the quran and the books given to Moses, Jesus, Jonah, David, Solomon . . . can we ask where you hide these books that we too may read them.

olabowale:

Check out the journalism in the story of Moses, or Joseph or even what is stated about Jesus. Each is complete without the mundaneness of the corrupt Bible.

thou liar, where are they?

@Davidylan:« #20 on: Today at 01:59:44 AM »
[Quote]
Thou liar, apostle means - A passionate adherent; a strong supporter. It was first used in the bible to refer to the 12 disciples/followers of Christ and has a distinct meaning from that of a prophet who may NOT be followers of anyone. Who are these apostles allah spoke of?
[/quote]

Thou liar, lying david! You think when i say something about islam, I am quoting from the Bible? You must be kidding yourself. In the Qur'an, Rusul, Anabi, Ambiyya were used for the elects of Allah. Now tell me what does each of them mean? By the time you are finish, you will find Apostle in it. The ahadith is laced with the word, "apostle," when describing the prophet of Allah, Muhammad (AS). Have you heard the term, "Allah's Apostle," being used for prophet Muhammad? Go and read. Please study because you have not done any studying.

And the not making any distinction, refers to the original, whose central theme is Laa ilaha ilallah! And not the corrupted editions, revisions, versions, etc that you have with you from the time of the revelation of the Qur'an, all the way till present and that will continue to be the prevailing condition, till the last day of mankind on earth!

Now tell me, is there a chance that the protestants will ever merge with the catholics? Whose Bible will be used, it it ever happens? Considering the statement of the Qur'an, the answer is NO! God Almighty has set a barrier in for of a discuss, resulting in divisions among you, because of Egos.





[Quote]
In what form does it appear in the quran? That is if it even appears AT ALL. Where is it? Any form will do please.
[/quote]

Instead of asking anyone to open up the psalm of David, just research Prophet david in the Qur'an. All the verses will show you his message. But the most of his saying is Laa ilaha ilallah!





[Quote]
that's true, a class of deciet, distortion and confusion. See what Cayon posted earlier from that your islam - (We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them (3:84 AYA)
[/quote]

Their pure messages and not the corrupted Books that you carry in your Bible, and the warped opinions of them. Your Books and your opinions are therefore corrupted and untrue.

Since you make NO distinction between the quran and the books given to Moses, Jesus, Jonah, David, Solomon . . . can we ask where you hide these books that we too may read them.

Yeah man. We make distinctions between the corrupted and the pure. Since you carry the corrupted which is not pure any longer, the verse above, does not apply to your present day Bible!





[Quote]
thou liar, where are they?
[/quote]

Please tell me therefore where Qur'an wasted any words, sentences, paragraphs, pages and go into the mundane, which the Bible is known for? If you can't find it then know that you have looked at the purest of journalism. It gave the complete information in the shortest of time and fewest of words.

PEACE AND BLESSINGS OF ALLAH (S.W.T) BE UPON YOU ALL.
What a very Revealing topic we got here'''''''''''''

@ Olabowale, a job well done, My Brother. May the Almighty Allah enrich your Ikmat. I really appreciate what you're doing here.


[center]ON THE TOPIC[/center]
ISLAM, does not come from the Descendants of Ismail (Ishmael) but It is their Religion of His Fore Fathers right from Adam.

QUR'AN : Ch. XLII :13 Stated,
The same religion has He established for you as that which He  enjoined on Noah -Thee which We have sent by inspiration to thee -And that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye shall remain steadfast in Religion, and make no division s therein : To those who worship other things than God, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them, God chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him)


God's Religion is the same in essence, whether given, for example, to Nuhu(Noah), Ibraham(Abraham), Musa(Moses), Or Isa(Jesus), or to our Holy Prophet (MUHAMMAD).
The source of unity is the revelation  from God. In Islam it is "established" as an institution, and does not remain merely a vague suggestion.

So my argument is that Islam is the Religion  practice by Adam then Nuhu and Ibrahim. So in addition, the Children of Ibrahim, both Isiaq(Isaac) and Ismail(Ishmael) were Muslims and those of their Children. But Islam got is Name from Ibrahim and since then it is known as[b] Islam[/b]'''''see below


QUR'AN: Ch. XXII : 78
And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has no difficulties on you in religion; it is the cult of your father Abraham. It is He who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation); that the apostle may be a witness for you, and te be witness for mankind! So establish regular prayer, Give regular Charity, And hold fast to God! He is your protector  -the best to protect and the best to help.

We need not to argue a lot, if Islam as a religion will A Religion Of Anybody(any soul), It will be from Ibrahim(Abraham) the Father of Faith.And that makes all His Descendant Muslims.

To For likes of Davidylan: 
Why do you keep saying what you have no knowledge about, Its purely unfair. If you guys are not Muslims then stop peeping into the Topics on this page. If you had nothing to do with your time why don't you get something ideal to keep you busy instead of this idleness of yours, I blame you not "owo to ba dile leshu wa sefun".

As for the likes of Olabowale: may you never Stumble
I beseech on Allah (S.W.T) to keep showering His Mercy and Blessings upon you and your Household(s).  Amin.

Islam was established by Muhammed (The mafia boss)

'and indeed many messengers before you (O Muhammad) were mocked, but their scoffers were surrounded by the very thing they used to mock at' Quran 6:10

'and indeed many messengers before you (O Muhammad) were mocked, but their scoffers were surrounded by the very thing they used to mock at' Quran 6:10

@Abuzola - The Fundamentalist Islamist ( Boko Haram)

What are you saying ? How do you interpret this ?

Has your dumbness gone to that, focused123?

Has your dumbness gone to that, focused123?

@ Muhsin or Mushin or Oshodi or whatever :

You are the most dumb person on earth.

Lmao your craziness has no bus stop

@ Abuzola:

Your father's craziness have no bus stop, no brake and no jam. Blood thirsty Islamist.

Hahaha, your madness has no diesel, pure hypocrite is who you are

They better carry you to the nearest Muhammed psychiatric hospital



Psychotic donkey