Reading Genesis (17:20): ”As for Ishmael, I am heeding you: I hereby bless him . I will make him fertile and will multiply him exceedingly . He shall become the father of twelve chieftains,[size=15pt] AND [/size] I will make of him a [size=15pt] GREAT NATION [/size] .”

We extract the following from the above verse:

1) Ishmael is BLESSED.

2) He will be FERTILE.

3) His nation will multiply

4) AND will be made into a GREAT NATION.

We can clearly see the distinction between being “a numerous nation” and “a great nation”. These two phrases could not indicate the same meaning.

Now can we ask what is “A GREAT NATION” mean?

As understood from first five books of the Old Testament,Israel was a numerous nation also by the time they reached the boarders of Palestine and yet they were called “a great nation”.

Let’s examine the verses below:

Deuteronomy, chapter 4:”
6 Observe them carefully, for thus will you give evidence of your wisdom and intelligence to the nations , who will hear of all these statutes and say, 'This GREAT NATION is truly a wise and intelligent people . ' (The nation of Israel was already a huge nation in number. We see that they are called a great nation, but is it because they are numerous?)

7 For what great nation is there that has gods so close to it as the LORD, our God, is to us whenever we call upon him?

8 Or what great nation has statutes and decrees that are as just as this whole law which I am setting before you today? ”

As we can see, the nation of Israel is called great because:

1) They worship God and only God.

2) They have the law of God.

An honest look at the Muslim nation today reveals that they worship the same God of Abraham and they also have a set of laws given to them in the Quran.

The nation of Ishmael has been blessed, they are numerous,and they are a great nation (a great nation for worshipping the true God and for having the law of God written down in the Quran).

story land ....story land.....land of music, and folktales
story land .....story land......bring ur friends along....

op, u sabi DAT song?

Just passing

lekkie073: story land ....story land.....land of music, and folktales
story land .....story land......bring ur friends along....

op, u sabi DAT song?

What song?

Am nt talking about song here Mr. Man

See slave glorifying Jewish history

@op.all christian knows this, ishmeal get the blessing because the blood of abraham runs in him, but the COVENANT was with isaac.

THIS IS THE BIBLE PROPHECY CONVENING ISHMAEL

Genesis 16:11-12
Then the Angel of the LORD said to her: You have conceived and will have a son. You will name him Ishmael, for the LORD has heard your [cry of] affliction.
This man will be [like] a wild ass. His hand will be against everyone, and everyone's hand will be against him; he will live at odds with all his brothers.

THIS PROPHECY IS BEING FULFILLED BEFORE OUR VERY EYES
THE ARAB WORLD IS AT WAR WITH ITSELF

malvisguy212: @op.all christian knows this, ishmeal get the blessing because the blood of abraham runs in him, but the COVENANT was with isaac.

kuss: THIS IS THE BIBLE PROPHECY CONVENING ISHMAEL
Genesis 16:11-12
Then the Angel of the LORD said to her: You have conceived and will have a son. You will name him Ishmael, for the LORD has heard your [cry of] affliction.
This man will be [like] a wild ass. His hand will be against everyone, and everyone's hand will be against him; he will live at odds with all his brothers.
THIS PROPHECY IS BEING FULFILLED BEFORE OUR VERY EYES
THE ARAB WORLD IS AT WAR WITH ITSELF

malvisguy212: @op.all christian knows this, ishmeal get the blessing because the blood of abraham runs in him, but the COVENANT was with isaac.

Genesis (17:20): ”As for Ishmael, I am heeding you: I hereby bless him . I will make him fertile and will multiply him exceedingly . He shall become the father of twelve chieftains,[size=15pt] AND [/size] I will make of him a [size=15pt] GREAT NATION [/size] .”

We extract the following from the above verse:

1) Ishmael is BLESSED.

2) He will be FERTILE.

3) His nation will multiply

4) AND will be made into a GREAT NATION.

Are you both saying the above prophecy was not fulfilled

You believe the Bible, but only a part that favour you, the remaining is corrupt.

That Jesus is the Son of God is corrupt.

That Jesus is the only WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE and nobody can get to God but through him is corrupt.

That only the Gospel of Jesus shall be preached to all NATION till the end of the world is corrupt.

truthman2012: You believe the Bible, but only a part that favour you, the remaining is corrupt.

Was the prophecy fulfilled or not

truthman2012: That Jesus is the Son of God is corrupt.

Is jesus the only son of God in the bible?

Even in the OT people are call son of God..

truthman2012: That Jesus is the only WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE and nobody can get to God but through him is corrupt.

How about the people of the Old ?

Do they get to meet jesus, Didnt they get to God by keeping the commadment.??

And who told you that i dont believe in jesus?

Rilwayne001:

Genesis (17:20): ”As for Ishmael, I am heeding you: I hereby bless him . I will make him fertile and will multiply him exceedingly . He shall become the father of twelve chieftains,[size=15pt] AND [/size] I will make of him a [size=15pt] GREAT NATION [/size] .”

We extract the following from the above verse:

1) Ishmael is BLESSED.

2) He will be FERTILE.

3) His nation will multiply

4) AND will be made into a GREAT NATION.

Are you both saying the above prophecy was not fulfilled

do you know the meaning of COVENANT? Dint you know that esau was blessed to?but the covenant was with jacob.

Rilwayne001:

Was the prophecy fulfilled or not




Is jesus the only son of God in the bible?

Even in the OT people are call son of God..



How about the people of the Old ?

Do they get to meet jesus, Didnt they get to God by keeping the commadment.??

And who told you that i dont believe in jesus?

Since the prophecy was fulfilled, that shows the bible is authetic, not corrupt, yes or no?

If there were other sons of God, do believe Jesus is also Son?

Jesus went into the grave to preach to the people of old who did not make it to heaven. Those who made it had contact with Jesus.

malvisguy212: do you know the meaning of COVENANT? Dint you know that esau was blessed to?but the covenant was with jacob.

Ismael was not just blessed, God promised to make his nation a GREAT NATION. Yes or No


And i have already outline what qualifies a GREAT NATION.

Am i communicating

Rilwayne001:

Ismael was not just blessed, God promised to make his nation a GREAT NATION. Yes or No


And i have already outline what qualifies a GREAT NATION.

Am i communicating

nobody deny it, ishmeal was mad a great nation, but the covenant was with isaac, great nation is a material riches, but convent mean all prophet will comes from isaac root.

truthman2012:

Since the prophecy was fulfilled, that shows the bible is authetic, not corrupt, yes or no?

First of all, do you agree with all what i wrote in the OP

truthman2012: If there were other sons of God, do believe Jesus is also Son?
Jesus went into the grave to preach to the people of old who did not make it to heaven. Those who made it had contact with Jesus.

These are different topics

You can open a thread for discussion. Dont let us derail this particular one

Rilwayne001:

First of all, do you agree with all what i wrote in the OP



These are different topics

You can open a thread for discussion. Dont let us derail this particular one

this is the complete chapter of genesis17.

Genesis 17 New International Version (NIV) The Covenant of Circumcision 17 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, “I
am God Almighty[ a]; walk before me faithfully and be blameless. 2 Then I will make my covenant between me and you
and will greatly increase your numbers.” 3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many
nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram[b]; your name will be Abraham,[ c] for I have made you a father of many
nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will
come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant
between me and you and your
descendants after you for the
generations to come, to be your God and
the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you
now reside as a foreigner, I will give as
an everlasting possession to you and your
descendants after you; and I will be their
God.” 9 Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and
your descendants after you for the
generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants
after you, the covenant you are to keep:
Every male among you shall be
circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the
covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male
among you who is eight days old must be
circumcised, including those born in your
household or bought with money from a
foreigner—those who are not your
offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money,
they must be circumcised. My covenant in
your flesh is to be an everlasting
covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the
flesh, will be cut off from his people; he
has broken my covenant.” 15 God also said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call
her Sarai; her name will be Sarah. 16 I will bless her and will surely give you a
son by her. I will bless her so that she will
be the mother of nations; kings of
peoples will come from her.” 17 Abraham fell facedown; he laughed and said to himself, “Will a son be born to
a man a hundred years old? Will Sarah
bear a child at the age of ninety?” 18 And Abraham said to God, “If only Ishmael
might live under your blessing!” 19 Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will
call him Isaac.[d] I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting
covenant for his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him
fruitful and will greatly increase his
numbers. He will be the father of twelve
rulers, and I will make him into a great
nation. 21 But my COVENANT I will establish with ISAAC, whom Sarah will
bear to you by this time next year.” 22 When he had finished speaking with
Abraham, God went up from him. 23 On that very day Abraham took his son Ishmael and all those born in his
household or bought with his money,
every male in his household, and
circumcised them, as God told him. 24 Abraham was ninety-nine years old
when he was circumcised, 25 and his son Ishmael was thirteen; 26 Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on
that very day. 27 And every male in Abraham’s household, including those
born in his household or bought from a
foreigner, was circumcised with him.


If YOU READ VERSE 2, GOD SAY HE WILL MAKE AN EVERLASTING CONVENT WITH ABRAHAm...... AND IN VERSE 21, THE SAME CONVENT WILL CONTINUE IN ISAAC.GOD MAKE ISHMEAL A GREAT NATION BECAUSE HE PROMISE TO BLESS HIS DESCENDANT EVEN ESAU WAS BLESS.

Rilwayne001:

First of all, do you agree with all what i wrote in the OP



These are different topics

You can open a thread for discussion. Dont let us derail this particular one

You asked questions and when I answered, you said they are different topics.

My point is: if you believe the bible on what it says about Ismael, you should believe it on what it says about Jesus.

True, God blessed Ishmael because he was the seed of Abraham but had no covenant of prophethood with him. His covenant was with Isaac. Both the bible and quran confirm it (Gen. 17:19-21, Quran 29:27). God could not have sent a prophet through Ishmael seed, i.e Muhammad.

malvisguy212:
If YOU READ VERSE 2, GOD SAY HE WILL MAKE AN EVERLASTING CONVENT WITH ABRAHAm...... AND IN VERSE 21, THE SAME CONVENT WILL CONTINUE IN ISAAC.GOD MAKE ISHMEAL A GREAT NATION BECAUSE HE PROMISE TO BLESS HIS DESCENDANT EVEN ESAU WAS BLESS.

Do you agree with me here or not?

7 For what great nation is there that has gods so close to it as the LORD, our God, is to us whenever we call upon him?

8 Or what great nation has statutes and decrees that are as just as this whole law which I am setting before you today? ”

Israel is called great because:
1) They worship God and only God.
2) They have the law of God.

Therefore the Nation of Ismael are a great Nation simply because of the 2points up there. Or else you want to prove that God didnt promise his descendants to ne a GREAT NATION no?

truthman2012:

You asked questions and when I answered, you said they are different topics.

I actually made a mistake by not answering you, i will go back to the post again.

truthman2012: My point is: if you believe the bible on what it says about Ismael, you should believe it on what it says about Jesus.

There are portions of the bible that has been distorted

truthman2012: True, God blessed Ishmael because he was the seed of Abraham but had no covenant of prophethood with him. His covenant was with Isaac. Both the bible and quran confirm it (Gen. 17:19-21, Quran 29:27). God could not have sent a prophet through Ishmael seed, i.e Muhammad.

Can ypu please educate me on what jesus actually said here.
Matthew 21:45: "Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a NATION bringing forth the fruits thereof."

truthman2012:

Since the prophecy was fulfilled, that shows the bible is authetic, not corrupt, yes or no?

No, most part of the bible has been corrupted but the authentic part are few.

truthman2012: If there were other sons of God, do believe Jesus is also Son?

Son of God = Servant of God

truthman2012: Jesus went into the grave to preach to the people of old who did not make it to heaven. Those who made it had contact with Jesus.

Are you saying people has not been making heaven before jesus came

The above is one of the corrupted part, please quote it out and let us examine it.

That Ismael is blessed is not the same as having the COVENANT. The ETERNAL covenant of Redemption of Mankind through JESUS cannot come from a BASTARD Ishmael son of hagar.
Sharia Law is not same law as old testament law. Mohammed was just an emperor leading a political and Arab cultural movement in the middle ages. He is not a prophet of True God of the Bible. He was just a brutally smart guy who called his movemnet a True Religion of allah! So d diff is clear!!!

Rilwayne001:

I actually made a mistake by not answering you, i will go back to the post again.



There are portions of the bible that has been distorted



Can ypu please educate me on what jesus actually said here.
Matthew 21:45: "Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a NATION bringing forth the fruits thereof."

Which portions of the bible were distorted?

Distorted by who?

Provide your proof.

You haven't said any about Gen. 17:19-21 and Quran 29:27 which confirm that no prophet was to come from Ismael lineage becos God had no COVENANT with him before asking your question. Do that first and I will answer you.

Rilwayne001:

Do you agree with me here or not?

7 For what great nation is there that has gods so close to it as the LORD, our God, is to us whenever we call upon him?

8 Or what great nation has statutes and decrees that are as just as this whole law which I am setting before you today? ”

Israel is called great because:
1) They worship God and only God.
2) They have the law of God.

Therefore the Nation of Ismael are a great Nation simply because of the 2points up there. Or else you want to prove that God didnt promise his descendants to ne a GREAT NATION no?

are you blind to read my coment? Dint you read were I say God make him a great nation because the blood of abraham run in him? The covenant was with isaac, an everlasting covenant.

Genesis16. 11 The angel of the Lord also said to her: “You are now pregnant
and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,[a] for the Lord has heard of your misery. 12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in HOSTILITY
toward[b] all his brothers.”

HE WILL LIVE IN HOSTILITY TOWARD HIS BROTHERS MEANS HE WILL BE ANGRY TOWARD HIS BROTHER, HE WILL HATE THEM.

why do muslims always go to the bible to authenticate their religion
it is obvious that islam cannot exist without the bible
every prophecy concerning Ismael has been fulfilled

Galatians 4:25
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

what can you say about this corrupt right, this was written even before Mohammed was born

kuss: why do muslims always go to the bible to authenticate their religion
it is obvious that islam cannot exist without the bible
every prophecy concerning Ismael has been fulfilled

Galatians 4:25
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

what can you say about this corrupt right, this was written even before Mohammed was born

when you copy your book from somebody, to perfected your book, you need answer to the original book. Have you ever seen christian try to use the quran to perfected the bible? The op is the evidence.

truthman2012:

Which portions of the bible were distorted?

Distorted by who?

Provide your proof.

First of all, it is important to know that if the "Bibles" of today, with all their versions and differences in the quantity of their "books" and "gospels", were in fact the Original Holy Word of GOD Almighty, then there would be no need for the Quran. But since they are corrupt, then we obviously can't consider them as GOD Almighty's Holy and Divine Words.

There existed many different Bibles during the time of the Roman Emperor, Constantine, which were widely believed in by different Christian sects in the year 312. In other words,during the first 3 centuries of "Christianity" (300 years), many different canons with 100s of books/gospels combined existed!

That is a lot of canons, a lot of books/gospels, and a lot of time (300 years) of different Christian religions existed. Also,Constantine's own "unified canon or bible" got lost and only small portions of it were found! So what we have today from "Bible(s)" are not even Constantine's books.

1- Constantine's unified "Bible" was permanently lost! Only portions of it were found almost 1/2 century later.

2- Hundreds of conflicting manuscripts existed among early Christians.

And do you know what happened in the council of nicean?

Okay, you want me to believe the portion of that of what paul wrote, when actually it is glaring that he is a lier?

truthman2012: You haven't said any about Gen. 17:19-21 and Quran 29:27 which confirm that no prophet was to come from Ismael lineage becos God had no COVENANT with him before asking your question. Do that first and I will answer you.

Ypu missed one of my question up there please go back and answer it..

malvisguy212: are you blind to read my coment?

what is the meaning of this please

malvisguy212: Dint you read were I say God make him a great nation because the blood of abraham run in him? The covenant was with isaac, an everlasting covenant.

Genesis16. 11 The angel of the Lord also said to her: “You are now pregnant
and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,[a] for the Lord has heard of your misery. 12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in HOSTILITY
toward[b] all his brothers.”

HE WILL LIVE IN HOSTILITY TOWARD HIS BROTHERS MEANS HE WILL BE ANGRY TOWARD HIS BROTHER, HE WILL HATE THEM.

What is a GREAT NATION according to Deut 4:6-8 ?

Can ypu please educate me on what jesus actually said here.
Matthew 21:45: "Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a NATION bringing forth the fruits thereof." [/quote]

the jew rejected Jesus as the Messiah and and the kingdom was taken from them and given to gentile nstions that explains why the jew are not Christian today

Jesus was actually quoting prophet hosea in that verse

Hosea 2:23 and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

Rilwayne001:

what is the meaning of this please




What is a GREAT NATION according to Deut 4:6-8 ?

the arab are great, nobody doubt that, the covenant is with isaac. all the lineage of prophethood will come from isaac,the quran and bible confirm it.

Ok the arab are great nation, europe is great isreal is great.so what your point?God made the arab a great nation through ishmeal,dos that mean when america invade the arab God is weak? No, this mean the great nation mean riches. But the convent mean all prophet are to comes from isaac.

You guys are spiritualy blinded.

malvisguy212: the arab are great, nobody doubt that, the covenant is with isaac. all the lineage of prophethood will come from isaac,the quran and bible confirm it.

They are GREAT NATION as God promised to make them. but they are great not because of riches rather because they worship God alone and for keeping Gods commandment as explained in Deut 4:6-8. Better still tell me am wrong.

Atleast we have arab country that are poor..biko? so what is your point?

malvisguy212: Ok the arab are great nation, europe is great isreal is great.so what your point?God made the arab a great nation through ishmeal,dos that mean when america invade the arab God is weak? [s] No, this mean the great nation mean riches. [/s] But the convent mean all prophet are to comes from isaac.

SMH. In Deutenoromy 4:6-8, is there anything like riches there?

You dont seem to know what you are doing atimes, SMH for you

malvisguy212: You guys are spiritualy blinded.

You are spiritually daft

Rilwayne001:

They are GREAT NATION as God promised to make them. but they are great not because of riches rather because they worship God alone and for keeping Gods commandment as explained in Deut 4:6-8. Better still tell me am wrong.

Atleast we have arab country that are poor..biko? so what is your point?




SMH. In Deutenoromy 4:6-8, is there anything like riches there?

You dont seem to know what you are doing atimes, SMH for you



You are spiritually daft

the book of deuterunomy 4:6-8. Was talkin about isreal,God told them to go and possessed there land.

Deuteronomy 4 New International Version (NIV) Obedience Commanded 4 Now, Israel, hear the decrees and laws I am about to teach you. Follow them so
that you may live and may go in and take
possession of the land the Lord, the God
of your ancestors, is giving you. 2 Do not add to what I command you and do not
subtract from it, but keep the commands
of the Lord your God that I give you. 3 You saw with your own eyes what the Lord did at Baal Peor. The Lord your God
destroyed from among you everyone
who followed the Baal of Peor, 4 but all of you who held fast to the Lord your God
are still alive today. 5 See, I have taught you decrees and laws as the Lord my God commanded me,
so that you may follow them in the land
you are entering to take possession of it. 6 Observe them carefully, for this will show your wisdom and understanding to
the nations, who will hear about all these
decrees and say, “Surely this great nation
is a wise and understanding people.” 7 What other nation is so great as to have
their gods near them the way the Lord
our God is near us whenever we pray to
him? 8 And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and
laws as this body of laws I am setting
before you today?

now read verse 7. again, it say" what other nation[arab] is so great to have their gods near them THE WAY THE LORD OUR GOD IS NEARER TO US[ISREAL]. Notice he use the small letter "g" for god in referring to the arab god. But the isreal has the big G on it.


The way you guys read the bible is wrong, first you must understand the context, example, God IS great, but another verse say samson is great, those that mean samson can challenge God? No,the context in which the book refer "God IS great" is talkin about a supreme bein, but the context in which bible say samson is great is talkin about the physical strength.THE CONTEXT IN WHICH GOD SAY THE ISREAL IS A GREAT NATION WAS SPIRITUALY, GOD FAVOUR THEM. BUT THE CONTEXT IN WHICH GOD MAKE THE ARAB A GREAT NATION WAS ABOUT RICHES.if it spiritual, when america invade the arab, those that mean God is weak to protect the arab spiritualy?
You guys don't know anytin about the deep thing of God.

quran29:27.Sahih International
And We gave to Him Isaac and Jacob and
placed in his descendants PROPHETHOOD
and scripture. And We gave him his
reward in this world, and indeed, he is in
the Hereafter among the righteous.

THIS VERSE IN THE QURAN MEAN MUHAMMAD IS A FALSE PROPHET, HE WAS NOT FROM THE DESCENDANT OF ISAAC AND JACOB.