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Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium - Career (3) - Nairaland

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Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Nobody: 11:17am On Aug 09, 2013
@Zebra, the bitter truth is that economists and financial analysts are better statisticians. Visit any national statistical office including USA and our national bureau of statistics you will discover that the top players there are economists.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by zebra(m): 12:02pm On Aug 09, 2013
Cajetan speaks: @Zebra, the bitter truth ias that economists and financial analysts are better statisticians. Visit any national statistical office including USA and our national bureau of statistics you will discover that the top players there are economists.
simply because economists and others work in bureau of statistics does not make them statisticians my friend. Even econometricians can never be called statisticians talk less of economists. U really don't know who statisticians are or what they do. Why are u displaying so much ignorance on this forum? Use ur google my man, it's not just there for fun. Even in the US and UK Statisticians are distinguished people with all sectors hiring them.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by zebra(m): 12:15pm On Aug 09, 2013
Cajetan speaks: @Zebra, the bitter truth ias that economists and financial analysts are better statisticians. Visit any national statistical office including USA and our national bureau of statistics you will discover that the top players there are economists.
simply because economists and others work in bureau of statistics does not make them statisticians my friend. They have other roles to play there. Even econometricians who also do economic analyses can never be called statisticians or do better than statisticians in economic surveys and analyses talk less of economists. FYI i did my IT with the NBS (then FOS) and we had economists, accountants and all that who were also working there but not in the capacity of statisticians. U really don't know who statisticians are or what they do. Why are u displaying so much ignorance on this forum? Use ur google my man, it's not just there for fun. Even in the US and UK Statisticians are distinguished people with all sectors hiring them and paying them well. One of the billionaires in the making today in the US is a statistician. His name is Dennis Gillings. He owns a medical research centre and has helped develop so many areas in medicine. Can ur economists and fin analysts and engineers attempt that? I guess u ve very little knowledge about statistics. Like i said use ur internet and google to learn about things u don't know well, and not just spewing thrash on nairaland.

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Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Nobody: 12:39pm On Aug 09, 2013
Since you said I don't know anything about statisticians' job. I will like you to enumerate these duties, lets dissect them individually. And mind you, the Statistician General of Nigeria and all his special advicers studied economics.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by zebra(m): 12:53pm On Aug 09, 2013
Cajetan speaks: Since you said I don't know anything about statisticians' job. I will like you to enumerate these duties, lets dissect them individually. And mind you, the Statistician General of Nigeria and all his special advicers studied economics.
yes, the stat-general in nigeria read economics. Have u bothered to find out if he did a postgraduate degree in statistics? Stat-gen is a political appointment mind u.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Nobody: 1:06pm On Aug 09, 2013
You didnt answer my question. Please enumerate the duties of statisticians lets dissect them and see if an economist or a financial analyst can also carry out these duties or not.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Nobody: 1:17pm On Aug 09, 2013
FYI Dr. Yemi Kale studied economics upto PhD level. Rather, your colleagues that studied statistics are the ones taking up pgd and msc in business and economic related courses in order to upgrade themselves.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by zebra(m): 2:12pm On Aug 09, 2013
Cajetan speaks: FYI Dr. Yemi Kale studied economics upto PhD level. Rather, your colleagues that studied statistics are the ones taking up pgd and msc in business and economic related courses in order to upgrade themselves.
i can now see where u problem is coming from. U look at statistics from one angle only, that is from the biz and economic angle. Like i said before most statisticians work in the fields of physical sciences, chemical sciences, biological sciences, medicine, pharmacy, agric, sociology, and psychology. Very few are work in biz and finance where they develop mathematical models. FYI Statisticians are applied scientists that work in all fields where they help in conducting experiments, surveys, and researches; and in developinp models. Economists and fin analysts on the other hand can only carry out analyses on biz and economic data.

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Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Nobody: 2:52pm On Aug 09, 2013
zebra: i can now see where u problem is coming from. U look at statistics from one angle only, that is from the biz and economic angle. Like i said before most statisticians work in the fields of physical sciences, chemical sciences, biological sciences, medicine, pharmacy, agric, sociology, and psychology. Very few are work in biz and finance where they develop mathematical models. FYI Statisticians are applied scientists that work in all fields where they help in conducting experiments, surveys, and researches; and in developinp models. Economists and fin analysts on the other hand can only carry out analyses on biz and economic data.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Nobody: 3:09pm On Aug 09, 2013
You summarized the duties of a statistician viz: helps in conducting experiments, surveys,researches and developing mathematical models.. Note:economists,fin analysts and engrs., can comfortably perform all those duties you listed.we study O.R too.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by zebra(m): 6:56pm On Aug 09, 2013
Cajetan speaks: You summarized the duties of a statistician viz: helps in conducting experiments, surveys,researches and developing mathematical models.. Note:economists,fin analysts and engrs., can comfortably perform all those duties you listed.we study O.R too.
i have to at this point stop arguing with u. So, simply because i did many computer courses including some programming languages, i should say i am better than computer scientists, and that i can comfortably do the job of computer scientists even better than them, abi? The stats, maths and operational research courses you did in biz and econs dept all have limits and cannot be compared with the ones i did in maths/stats dept. The maths, stats and O.R. courses done in biz and econs is just a tip of the iceberg. FYI, i have lectured economics students maths for econs I and II, stats I and II. I still lecture them uptil now on part-time basis. For biz admin, i ve been their lecturer on biz maths, biz stats and quantitative analysis too. What they do in those courses will honestly increase their quantitative skills, but not to the level of displacing mathematicians or statisticians. I now believe u only use ur internet for nairaland browsing only. I rest my case with u bro.

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Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Nobody: 8:43pm On Aug 09, 2013
You are free to say anything you like.But how dare you think you do O.R (a.k.a management science)better than its owners?Its obvious you are just being sentimental and not realistic. FYI I have dozens of statisticians working under me. ..cheers..
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by zebra(m): 10:38pm On Aug 09, 2013
Cajetan speaks: You are free to say anything you like.But how dare you think you do O.R (a.k.a management science)better than its owners?Its obvious you are just being sentimental and not realistic. FYI I have dozens of statisticians working under me. ..cheers..
I have the course outlines for all those quantitative courses econs, accounting and biz admin students take. Honestly they are no where close in strength with what students in maths/statistics and computer science offer. For example, we did integer and quadratic programming in ops research while ur syllabus ends at linear programming. Even at that, the linear programming does not go beyond the conventional simplex mthd. In maths/stats we go as far as big 'M' mthd, 2 phase mthd, and revised simplex mthd. In inventory theory we did both deterministic and probabilistic models with more emphasis on proofs and derivations than applictions, while ur biz admin, econs and accounting curricula laid more emphasis on applications, with no proofs required. Just to mention a few pls. You may have statisticians working under u in ur company, yes, but that does not make u better in handling figures/data analysis than other statisticians elsewhere. Company policy might ve made them be under u and not becos they are not good in statistical analysis. In my last post i said i wasn't going to debate with u again, but because i have discovered that u're not the insultive type that's why i responed again. I think i'm enjoying the debate now. Let's keep it up this way.

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Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by marcangelo(m): 10:58pm On Aug 09, 2013
*Let me go grab some popcorn and watch dis debate*....
really interesting..
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Numerouuuno: 7:26am On Aug 10, 2013
M̶̲̅Ƹ too o*sits beside marcangelo for the debate with an eye on his popcorn*wink
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Nobody: 11:39am On Aug 10, 2013
Before I proceed, its very important you note that, accounting and biz admin courses are not all that mathematically inclined. Economics is highly mathematically inclined . I would like you to restrict your argument to economics and finance.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Nobody: 12:05pm On Aug 10, 2013
Lest i forget, let me bring to your notice that statistics is an integral part of economics, and that's why, we'll continue to crab all the available jobs in research and statistics especially in World Bank,UNDP e.t.c
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by marcangelo(m): 3:03pm On Aug 10, 2013
*@Numero unoo, u can enjoy d popcorn wit me ,wen e finish u go buy anoda make we chop*
dis debate is really getin interestin, its like cajetan speaks is really loaded wit facts, hmmmm!..lets see wat zebra is up to,i'm sure he's comin up wit someting mind blowing....
*adjustingmy seat to relax and watch well*winks*
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Numerouuuno: 3:49pm On Aug 10, 2013
*@marcangelo, ⌣»̶·̵̭̌·̵̭̌✽̤̈̊Ŧђɑ̤̥̈̊п̥̥̲̣̣̣kƨ̣̣̣̇̇̇̇✽̤̈̊·̵̭̌·̵̭̌«̶⌣ bro,the pop-corn is sweetwink*
Catejan speak is sure loaded with facts,but zebra also isn't poor on the facts thingy
They're both good speakers. let's wait for zebra to reply.
*waiting in anticipation*
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by zebra(m): 4:50pm On Aug 10, 2013
Cajetan speaks: Lest i forget, let me bring to your notice that statistics is an integral part of economics, and that's why, we'll continue to crab all the available jobs in research and statistics especially in World Bank,UNDP e.t.c
i've said it before, ur problem is that u look at statistics from just one direction - economic and biz statistics. FYI most statisticians work in the areas of biostatistics, medical statistics, and industrial statistics. Why are u restricting statistics to economics and biz? Yes, statistics is an integral part of economics, that's to tell u how robust and important statistical methods are to an economist. Try and find out what statisticians do in the medical and pharmaceutical sciences, biological sciences, agric sciences, and industrial processes, and scientific Research & Development. Economists can contribute nothing to these areas i just mentioned. An economist can only be relevant when it comes to economic analysis, while statisticians can very well handle analyses on economic issues, as well as social, medical, agric, scientific, industrial quality control, etc. I read maths/stats, and my mathematical skills can only be compared with that of people that studied engineering and not with any discipline in the social sciences. I told u in one of my previous posts that i lecture economics students most of the maths and stats courses that make them feel they know maths up to the level that mathematicians and statisticians know. Before i forget, i also handled econometrics too. Economists are mathematically good to some extent, but to say they are better than mathematicians and statisticians or can effectively serve as statisticians is where i feel u don't know what statistics really is as a course. U probably may be looking at statistics as a social science discipline. We are scientists bro! The statistical system in nigeria is not fully developed that's why economists always try to perform the roles of statisticians in some ministries. In developed nations like the US and UK there is a boundary btw what statisticians and economists do in economic analyses.

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Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by marcangelo(m): 5:14pm On Aug 10, 2013
wonderuful!!, i'm learning a lot here....pls kip it coming..
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Numerouuuno: 9:31pm On Aug 10, 2013
Its getting interesting the more.............
@@zebra,which school/institution are you lecturing?
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by zebra(m): 9:50pm On Aug 10, 2013
@Cajetan speaks: statisticians also create and manage data bases, as well as write algorithms and develop new statistical programs to solve statistical problems. This is one of the principal roles of statisticians. I wonder what u take statistics for, probably mean, median, mode like some of us thought in the past. Economic analysis is the simplest and most straight forward analysis in statistics, that is why most statisticians go for more challenging areas like medicine, pharmacy, psychometrics, biometrics, agriculture, process and product control, and reliabilty and survival analysis in engineering. Like i said before go to google and request to see what statisticians do. This might help u know what statisticians can do that economists can't do.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Nobody: 10:38pm On Aug 10, 2013
I know of all of those statisticians areas of specialty you mentioned(Geostatistics inclusive), but in all those areas, your duty starts and ends with DATA(collection,mgt &analysis).Basically you are data providers for professional in those fields.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Nobody: 10:58pm On Aug 10, 2013
Based on my earlier stated facts, don't you think that a degree holder in related disciplines of those areas you mentioned plus skills in SPSS,SAS,STATA etc will be prefered over a guy with only a statistical background?Pls be sincere as you respond.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Nobody: 11:19pm On Aug 10, 2013
zebra: i've said it before, ur problem is that u look at statistics from just one direction - economic and biz statistics. FYI most statisticians work in the areas of biostatistics, medical statistics, and industrial statistics. Why are u restricting statistics to economics and biz? Yes, statistics is an integral part of economics, that's to tell u how robust and important statistical methods are to an economist. Try and find out what statisticians do in the medical and pharmaceutical sciences, biological sciences, agric sciences, and industrial processes, and scientific Research & Development. Economists can contribute nothing to these areas i just mentioned. An economist can only be relevant when it comes to economic analysis, while statisticians can very well handle analyses on economic issues, as well as social, medical, agric, scientific, industrial quality control, etc. I read maths/stats, and my mathematical skills can only be compared with that of people that studied engineering and not with any discipline in the social sciences. I told u in one of my previous posts that i lecture economics students most of the maths and stats courses that make them feel they know maths up to the level that mathematicians and statisticians know. Before i forget, i also handled econometrics too. Economists are mathematically good to some extent, but to say they are better than mathematicians and statisticians or can effectively serve as statisticians is where i feel u don't know what statistics really is as a course. U probably may be looking at statistics as a social science discipline. We are scientists bro! The statistical system in nigeria is not fully developed that's why economists always try to perform the roles of statisticians in some ministries. In developed nations like the US and UK there is a boundary btw what statisticians and economists do in economic analyses.
This has said it all @ Cajetan speaks but to be sincere i think Economics sells more than Statistics in Nigeria.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by zebra(m): 7:14am On Aug 11, 2013
Dekins88: This has said it all @ Cajetan speaks but to be sincere i think Economics sells more than Statistics in Nigeria.
Yes, economics sells more than statistics in nigeria because statistics is yet to be undertood and developed in ngeria. Thank God it's not like that in other countries. Statisticians in the UK and US are hot cakes. Dennis Gillings (a statistician in the US) is fast joining the league of billionniares in the US as a result of his statistical work in medical research, which has brought about advancement and development of new methods of curing certain ailments in the field of medicine. We don't carry out such in nigeria at the moment, that is why most statisticians in nigeria tend to concentrate on the economic and biz sectors. Why u see statistics graduates going to do PGD in mangement and MBA is for those of them working in biz and other non-scientific areas to remain relevant in their jobs that are non-scientific but biz inclined. Economist have restrictions on where they can apply their skills, they are restricted to economic and biz issues only, they can never join the league of scientific researchers. Statisticians on the other hand can apply their skills anywhere (sciences, social sciences, medicine, pharmacy, biotechnology, agric, process and product control, engineering, etc.). Statistics is far selling in developed nations because of its wider applications in researches in those fields mentioned.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by zebra(m): 7:15am On Aug 11, 2013
@Dekins88: Try and read about what statisticians in the US and UK do in the medical and pharmaceutical sciences, biotechnology, engineering and manufacturing, u will then agree with me that nigeria is yet to know what statistics is or what statisticians do. We don't do research in those areas i mentioned above here in nigeria. Nigerian government and indeed most nigerians believe in just economic and biz research and not scientific. Another problem about statistics in nigeria is the fact that there is no functional statistical body in nigeria like ICAN that regulates the practice and applications of statistics. The Royal Statistical Society in the UK regulates the practice and applications of statistics in the UK and other European countries, and also grants membership status and chartered status to members who excellently pass their professional exams which is like the ACCA and ICAN exams for accounting profession.Nigeria. Therefore, an Economist who wants to practice statistics in the UK must have a chartered statistician (CStat) status or atleast be a member of the RSS. But in nigeria the reverse is the case, as everyone feel they can practice and apply statistical methods. They do this indiscriminately because of the fact that they took some basic mathematics and statistics courses in school. In the UK, a CStat must certify the sampling technique employed in ur research work and data analysis as good and correct before any government agency/parastatal or any company/industry can approve and take ur research work and its recommendations serious.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Nobody: 1:45pm On Aug 11, 2013
My question is still awaiting a sincere response.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by zebra(m): 2:58pm On Aug 11, 2013
Cajetan speaks: My question is still awaiting a sincere response.
and what is that question?
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Nobody: 4:40pm On Aug 11, 2013
Cajetan speaks: I know of all of those statisticians areas of specialty you mentioned(Geostatistics inclusive), but in all those areas, your duty starts and ends with DATA(collection,mgt &analysis).Basically you are data providers for professional in those fields.
Re: Mathematicians' & Statisticians' Colloquium by Nobody: 4:43pm On Aug 11, 2013
Cajetan speaks: Based on my earlier stated facts, don't you think that a degree holder in related disciplines of those areas you mentioned plus skills in SPSS,SAS,STATA etc will be prefered over a guy with only a statistical background?Pls be sincere as you respond.

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