. . .or any other religion with an afterlife. This is one of my biggest problems with and arguments after life-including religions. I ask the question:

"If God wants to love us and be with us so much, why not actually be with us in heaven for eternity? There is absolute no need for living away from him in a natural world for decades if he wants to be with us all".

Certainly, if any of the religions with an afterlife are true, then their God obviously did'nt think this one through.

any body here who might have an answer?

God did think this one through.

The problem many atheists/agnostics have is that they try to rationalise God in their minds and that is just impossible.

You can't understand God except by faith. Sorry, its not easy but that's the reality.

One of the primary reasons why God created man, Adam, was for fellowship. Remember that until he sinned, God used to come in the cool of the day to 'play with' Adam.

It's very 'silly' to communicate with a being you can't see and think that he/she actually hears you. But that's what God demands. And it cannot be understood with the natural mind.

Eventually, we will have eternal fellowship with God in heaven, by His grace.

I hope I have done some justice to your question.

A_K_O:

God did think this one through.

The problem many atheists/agnostics have is that they try to rationalise God in their minds and that is just impossible.

You can't understand God except by faith. Sorry, its not easy but that's the reality.

One of the primary reasons why God created man, Adam, was for fellowship. Remember that until he sinned, God used to come in the cool of the day to 'play with' Adam.

It's very 'silly' to communicate with a being you can't see and think that he/she actually hears you. But that's what God demands. And it cannot be understood with the natural mind.

Eventually, we will have eternal fellowship with God in heaven, by His grace.

I hope I have done some justice to your question.

Supposing I were to say that you just made all of this up, what would you say?

huxley:

Supposing I were to say that you just made all of this up, what would you say?

nothing,just get u banned

A_K_O:

God did think this one through.

The problem many atheists/agnostics have is that they try to rationalise God in their minds and that is just impossible.

You can't understand God except by faith. Sorry, its not easy but that's the reality.

One of the primary reasons why God created man, Adam, was for fellowship. Remember that until he sinned, God used to come in the cool of the day to 'play with' Adam.

It's very 'silly' to communicate with a being you can't see and think that he/she actually hears you. But that's what God demands. And it cannot be understood with the natural mind.

Eventually, we will have eternal fellowship with God in heaven, by His grace.

I hope I have done some justice to your question.

So you thought Adam was the first man?
Oh Yeah according to the bible. . . . . . . I forgot.

There is nothing I said that is not backed by the bible.

Youre already biased anyway.

The Sly:

So you thought Adam was the first man?
Oh Yeah according to the bible. . . . . . . I forgot.

According to you?

Missy B:

According to you?

Adam was not the first man.
Na wah for you people self.

Okay sir. . . Mind enlightening us?

A_K_O:

God did think this one through.

The problem many atheists/agnostics have is that they try to rationalise God in their minds and that is just impossible.

You can't understand God except by faith. Sorry, its not easy but that's the reality.

One of the primary reasons why God created man, Adam, was for fellowship. Remember that[b] until he sinned[/b], God used to come in the cool of the day to 'play with' Adam.

It's very 'silly' to communicate with a being you can't see and think that he/she actually hears you. But that's what God demands. And it cannot be understood with the natural mind.

Eventually, we will have eternal fellowship with God in heaven, by His grace.

I hope I have done some justice to your question.

why did'nt god just forgive him then? why does he forgive people now and refused to forgive adam then? does it make any sense to you?. . . . .

Missy B:

Okay sir. . . Mind enlightening us?

I think that is another topic entirely and has nothing to do wid this thread as you can see.
Maybe you should start another one in that respect i suggest.

A_K_O:

God did think this one through.

The problem many atheists/agnostics have is that they try to rationalise God in their minds and that is just impossible.

You can't understand God except by faith. Sorry, its not easy but that's the reality.

One of the primary reasons why God created man, Adam, was for fellowship. Remember that until he sinned, God used to come in the cool of the day to 'play with' Adam.

It's very 'silly' to communicate with a being you can't see and think that he/she actually hears you. But that's what God demands. And it cannot be understood with the natural mind.

Eventually, we will have eternal fellowship with God in heaven, by His grace.

I hope I have done some justice to your question.

Did god know that Adam&Eve were going to sin before he created them?

mazaje:

why did'nt god just forgive him then? why does he forgive people now and refused to forgive adam then? does it make any sense to you?. . . . .

Seriously Mazaje and Huxley. . . You ought to keep quiet for sometime
and give your mind rest. . . . Sorry if I sound rude tho.
You spend too much time diggin' stuffs 'bout the same
God you don't believe in. . . . It's aiight.My opinion doesn't count I know.

Don't botha replyin ma post for I'm so not into you guys tonight.
Mazaje-Huxley's wann'a be

huxley:

Did god know that Adam&Eve were going to sin before he created them?

NO!
If he knew, He would not have created them. . . . . . . My thoughts though.

why did'nt god just forgive him then? why does he forgive people now and refused to forgive adam then? does it make any sense to you?. . . . .

1) They didn't ask for forgiveness, they didn't even accept responsibility for their actions, they both shifted blame. Eve shifted blame to Adam, and Adam to the devil.
2) Even when someone accepts the wrong doing they still make it right. If someone murders a person, the victim's family can forgive, but that doesn't mean the murderer shouldn't go to jail or pay the price for the sin or wrong doing.

God didnt know if they were going to sin becasuse He created them with a free will.

Makes sense?

A_K_O:

God didnt know if they were going to sin becasuse He created them with a free will.

Makes sense?

Fantastic!!!

Yes am an 100% pure atheist. How can you tell me to understand God by faith? You trying to tell me to delude myself? To use my imagination to see God? Well sorry, i need solid evidence i can't fool myself like you and other believers.

You don't have to understand God if you don't want to. If you feel that you need solid evidence then that's fine, besides there's been too many solid evidence in the world for you not to know. Instead of accepting it as it is, which is reality, you choose to use your own power and mind to explain it. If then you fail to explain it, instead of accepting it, you refuse to because you already believe that until your own mind understands it and can explain it, it won't be true. So nothing is ever going to be true until it is explainable by you.

Even if I start to give you a testimony of being an eyewitness, you won't believe it until you see for yourself. But what you fail to realise is that the eye can be deceiving and so can the mind.

God didnt know if they were going to sin becasuse He created them with a free will.

Makes sense?

Actually because we have free will does not mean that God doesn't know what we will do. He allows us to do what we want to do because of free will, but that doesn't mean he doesn't know what we will do.
So ask God to show you a sign, if you truly want to believe.

Let me enlighten you on something, you're not the only one, you are not the first, and you won't be the last. Even one of Jesus' disciple didn't believe until he saw Jesus himself.

John 20:24-29
24Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
     But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."
26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed

So see you're not the only one, sometimes all you have to do is ask. If you truly want to understand and believe, you can ask for it. Trust me it won't be a 'whoosh' feeling, but somehow you will know.
Sometimes it is not meant for you to believe at that particular time, and it may be that the time came and you didn't recognise it, and you turned God away.
You really do have power, but sometimes we give ourselves too much credit, I think the word for that is PRIDE.

But ma'am I have encountered former atheists, and believe me there is nothing new under the sun. So don't think you're questions haven't been heard before. For something you believe does not exist, you spend too much time on it.

Actually because we have free will does not mean that God doesn't know what we will do. He allows us to do what we want to do because of free will, but that doesn't mean he doesn't know what we will do.

I do not agree with these.
If he knew, He wouldn't have created man at all.


Genesis 6:5: The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.

Genesis 6:6: The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.

His heart wouldn't have been filled with pain if he knew that ''man'' would sin.

Genesis 6:7 : So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.

So A-K-O was right!!

~Lady~:

1) They didn't ask for forgiveness, they didn't even accept responsibility for their actions, they both shifted blame. Eve shifted blame to Adam, and Adam to the devil.
2) Even when someone accepts the wrong doing they still make it right. If someone murders a person, the victim's family can forgive, but that doesn't mean the murderer shouldn't go to jail or pay the price for the sin or wrong doing.

why do you guys always you human actions to explain or justify the actions of your all powerful, all knowing god, yet on the other hand you say ordinary people can never understand him, why use ordinary human ways of doing things to explain your god but turn around and claim that people have to have some spiritual element of understanding before the can understand your god? you just cant have it both ways.

did god know that Adam and eve will eat the apple?

The Sly:

I do not agree with these.
If he knew, He wouldn't have created man at all.


Genesis 6:5: The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.

Genesis 6:6: The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.

His heart wouldn't have been filled with pain if he knew that ''man'' would sin.

Genesis 6:7 : So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.

So A-K-O was right!!

clearly god did not know that man will sin , hence he is not all knowing. . . . . . enough of all these meme that god is all knowing. . . .

i dont believe in the afterlife and even if there is one i would much rather go to hell, by all accounts heaven comes accross a tad bit irritating and extremely boring ( with all that singing and dancing, playing withe a lions mane and shit

I do not agree with these.
If he knew, He wouldn't have created man at all.

Ok it is fine to disagree. You have your own free will

Genesis 6:5: The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.

Genesis 6:6: The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.

His heart wouldn't have been filled with pain if he knew that ''man'' would sin.

Genesis 6:7 : So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.

All these after men have made the choice to do evil. You know free will. Even after wiping them out, what happened? Did the earth go back to being free without sin?

why do you guys always you human actions to explain or justify the actions of your all powerful, all knowing god, yet on the other hand you say ordinary people can never understand him, why use ordinary human ways of doing things to explain your god but turn around and claim that people have to have some spiritual element of understanding before the can understand your god? you just can't have it both ways.

did god know that Adam and eve will eat the apple?

We were made in his image, and if I use God's ways to explain it to you will you understand? No, so what's the point of explaining things to someone if I know they won't understand me. Why ask a question if you do not want an explanation?

Ordinary things do explain God, we tend to over think things a lot, and you tend to assume things about people. Ordinary people with their ordinary ways understand God. Those who view themselves as extraordinary are the ones that tend not to understand God. Humility is a virtue.
There is a spiritual element that is needed to understand God, however this element is not so difficult or so out of reach.
Simple things can be used to explain God. For example to explain what the Trinity may resemble, one can look at a shamrock. It is three leaves in one, it is three and yet of the same leaf. So is the Trinity. Three persons,yet of the same essence.

Stop assuming things about God. Ordinary people understand him, ordinary things explain him. Just because you can't understand the ordinary doesn't mean it isn't what it is.

mazaje:

clearly god did not know that man will sin , hence he is not all knowing. . . . . . enough of all these meme that god is all knowing. . . .

That Sir is your own cup of tea.
If you believe he doesn't exist, Thats your headache, Not mine.
But hey, We dont care and we hope you would see the light soon.

vivaladiva:

i don't believe in the afterlife and even if there is one i would much rather go to hell, by all accounts heaven comes accross a tad bit irritating and extremely boring ( with all that singing and dancing, playing withe a lions mane and shit

Go and read your book jor!
You think we are talking about my boyfriend is tall here??

vivaladiva:

i don't believe in the afterlife and even if there is one i would much rather go to hell, by all accounts heaven comes accross a tad bit irritating and extremely boring ( with all that singing and dancing, playing withe a lions mane and shit

By the words of thy mouth thou art condemned.

A_K_O:

God didnt know if they were going to sin becasuse He created them with a free will.

Makes sense?

Makes absolutely no sense. How can He be alpha and the Omega, begining and the end and yet not know Adam would sin?
Yes He created Adam with a freewill but He knew Adam would sin . . .

Before Esau was born the bible says - Jacob have i loved but Esau have i hated . . . why? Was it because He just had an inordinate hatred for anyone bearing Esau? No, it was because He could foretell the kind of person Esau eventually ended up becoming.

Lol, interesting summations so far.

Abeg, I wan ask simple questions from atheistic rationalists in the house:

What actually is atheism?

Who is an atheist?

Is atheism, as a worldview, a movement that atheists are passionate about?

So many questions atheists have been asking Christian theists. I think the time has come for them to speak for themselves and let us know what they actually believe. The lines have been blurred for much too long, and we would not like to see this obfuscations constantly bantered. Clarity and consistency are the keywords here. So, atheistic rationalists, can we hear you, hmmm??

Thank you.

Be careful what you say, God's grace and love for man should not be for granted. Do not test HIS patience, BLASPHEMY, Who are we to questions HIS supremacy.

Pilgrim.1

I agree. Oya atheist start answering questions.

vicero:

Be careful what you say, God's grace and love for man should not be for granted. Do not test HIS patience, BLASPHEMY, Who are we to questions HIS supremacy.

Blasphemy ko, Blas-FEMI ni

Test whose patience? Do you mean the god that virtually was a killing machine in the old testament? Do you mean the god that created people but ended up destroying his own people because they didnt care about him? Why did he go through all these stress of populating the world and later drowning them? Does that show that such an intelligent all knowing god exists or doesnt that smack off a rampaging child who has lost his rattler and is ready to destroy everything in sight until the rattler is found?

Finally who are we to question his supremacy? Can you hear yourself speak? If such a leader gives all these kind of obnoxious laws is living today, dont you think such a person should be in madame tussad art works in the chamber of horrors corner? Deviant and devilish laws such as:

GOD'S LAWS THAT PERMIT KILLING OF INNOCENT SOULS

Exodus 22:18: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live," and 22:19 "Whosoever lieth with a beast, shall surely be put to death."

Exodus 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god save unto Yahweh only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
Exodus 21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
Exodus 21: 17 And he that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 21: 20-21 And if a man smite his slave or his slavegirl with a rod, and he die under his hand, he shall be surely punished: Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his money.
(Exodus 22:2 If a burglar is caught in the act and is fatally injured, it is not murder; but if he breaks in after sunrise and is fatally injured, then it is murder.

Yeah! after reading such nauseating laws, who am i to contest with this supreme demon and question his supremacy

Zino Ben:

Blasphemy ko, Blas-FEMI ni

Test whose patience? Do you mean the god that virtually was a killing machine in the old testament? Do you mean the god that created people but ended up destroying his own people because they didnt care about him? Why did he go through all these stress of populating the world and later drowning them? Does that show that such an intelligent all knowing god exists or doesnt that smack off a rampaging child who has lost his rattler and is ready to destroy everything in sight until the rattler is found?

Finally who are we to question his supremacy? Can you hear yourself speak? If such a leader gives all these kind of obnoxious laws is living today, don't you think such a person should be in madame tussad art works in the chamber of horrors corner? Deviant and devilish laws such as:

GOD'S LAWS THAT PERMIT KILLING OF INNOCENT SOULS

Exodus 22:18: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live," and 22:19 "Whosoever lieth with a beast, shall surely be put to death."

Exodus 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god save unto Yahweh only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
Exodus 21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
Exodus 21: 17 And he that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 21: 20-21 And if a man smite his slave or his slavegirl with a rod, and he die under his hand, he shall be surely punished: Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his money.
(Exodus 22:2 If a burglar is caught in the act and is fatally injured, it is not murder; but if he breaks in after sunrise and is fatally injured, then it is murder.

Yeah! after reading such nauseating laws, who am i to contest with this supreme demon and question his supremacy

where is davidylan and pilgrim to defend all this brutality and savagery from a supposedly all merciful and all forgiven god. . . . .

There is nothing I said that is not backed by the bible.

Youre already biased anyway.

a bible littered with errors is not exactly a great source. the adam of 6000 years ago is definitely not the first man.  what happened to the garden of eden. did it vanished to the earths core or something??

not to diss anyone, why would a christian not be a born again christian, are u trying to deceive your God with one leg in, one leg out.