Rayhut:

[/color]
But some people use these powers and we cannot deny that there is no such powers,you have not seen where somebody uses basket to hold water and water is not leaking through the basket hole

This is more like David Blaine than supernatural although Africans rarely care about that distinction.

Weah96:

LOL. It has bothered me that there is not a single African or black country that is considered as "first world" though. I've often wondered why.

Hmm..
I wonder if it has anything to do with the Curse of Ham
According to their ^infallible buy-bull, Noah cursed Ham and his descendants with dark skin, and said they would be slaves to their brothers [white people]

Genesis 9:20 And Noah began to be an husbandman,
and he planted a vineyard:
21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and
he was uncovered within his tent.
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the
unclothedness of his father, and told his two brethren
without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid
it upon both their shoulders, and went backward,
and covered the unclothedness of their father; and
their faces were backward, and they saw not their
father’s unclothedness.
24 ¶ And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew
what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan ; a servant of
servants shall he be unto his brethren.
26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem;
and Canaan shall be his service.
27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in
the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Genesis 9: 20-27

Apatheist:
Hmm..
I wonder if it has anything to do with the Curse of Ham
According to their ^infallible buy-bull, Noah cursed Ham and his descendants with dark skin, and said they would be slaves to their brothers [white people]


Genesis 9: 20-27

Lots of holes in that story. I believe the writer was drunk himself.

Apatheist:
Really?
Do you know you can win a million dollars if you can prove it?

not only James Randi Educational Foundation but also Sima Nan Foundation is also offering one Million Yuan to anyone that demostrate

Funny bit about Noah, since we're talking about him at the minute.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF9Xn5m2OGg

Weah96:
Lots of holes in that story. I believe the writer was drunk himself.

Actually, the entire book is filled with lotta holes and immoralities.

The foundation is beset with despicable anger. Imagine blaming the sins of Adam on me (a man i don't even know nor did see).

beejaay:

not only James Randi Educational Foundation but also Sima Nan Foundation is also offering one Million Yuan to anyone that demonstrate

The US dollar is more valuable than the yuan.

@Rayhut, you must be wondering why I didn't respond to the nonsense you wrote.... Well lemme save you the heart break.

I've heard numerous lies like, "I saw jack lift this box through telekinesis" therefore "juju is real." here in Nairaland.

Have you ever wondered:

* What happened at ALUU? How come the whole World knew about the event?

* The Ejigbo torture that took place around February last year, how come the World got to know even after the whole event had already passed by months and was witnessed by a few people??

Every odd, entertaining, eye-catching and even, in some cases, illegal event in Naija never escape the camera of an average Nigerian. Dana air crash site was captured Live burning, ALUU lynching scene was captured Live, pictures and videos filled the internet of all these events but surprisingly, the only places we find capture of Live juju action tend to only exist in Nollywood movies.

What's the matter?

Why do Nigerians forget their smartphones at home whenever these mindblowing shows take place?! (who doesn't want blog traffic or Youtube views?)

Actually, those things never happened.

I used to be among those bunch of losers who came on religious boards proclaiming that I saw a LIVE juju take place before my very eyes when I actually didn't: I just heard from people who heard it from people and so goes the chain.

Stories of Miss Koikoi, Bunk Shaker and other bullshit we were told in Boarding school weren't different at all.

Whites don't believe in juju yet they better us in every aspect in live, why? Are the gods insane or what?

Ok, let's assume juju works. How does that prove that your god is the real god when there are approximately a hundred million gods to contend with

OOGA OH!

May the spirit of sonpana save this country from further daftness and stupidity

Reiyvinn: @Rayhut, you must be wondering why I didn't respond to the nonsense you wrote.... Well lemme save you the heart break.

I've heard numerous lies like, "I saw jack lift this box through telekinesis" therefore "juju is real." here in Nairaland.

Have you ever wondered:

* What happened at ALUU? How come the whole World knew about the event?

* The Ejigbo torture that took place around February last year, how come the World got to know even after the whole event had already passed by months and was witnessed by a few people??

Every odd, entertaining, eye-catching and even, in some cases, illegal event in Naija never escape the camera of an average Nigerian. Dana air crash site was captured Live burning, ALUU lynching scene was captured Live, pictures and videos filled the internet of all these events but surprisingly, the only places we find capture of Live juju action tend to only exist in Nollywood movies.

What's the matter?

Why do Nigerians forget their smartphones at home whenever these mindblowing shows take place?! (who doesn't want blog traffic or Youtube views?)

Actually, those things never happened.

I used to be among those bunch of losers who came on religious boards proclaiming that I saw a LIVE juju take place before my very eyes when I actually didn't: I just heard from people who heard it from people and so goes the chain.

Stories of Miss Koikoi, Bunk Shaker and other bullshit we were told in Boarding school weren't different at all.

Whites don't believe in juju yet they better us in every aspect in live, why? Are the gods insane or what?

Ok, let's assume juju works. How does that prove that your god is the real god when there are approximately a hundred million gods to contend with

OOGA OH!

May the spirit of sonpana save this country from further daftness and stupidity

Juju works by anecdotal evidence. Rarely has anyone ever witnessed anything. Most of the time, people are poisoned through some creative method and everyone blames it on the dark arts.

Weah96:

Juju works by anecdotal evidence. Rarely has anyone ever witnessed anything. Most of the time, people are poisoned through some creative method and everyone blames it on the dark arts.

Exactly!!!

People pepper their versions into simple events and make the whole thing complicated and legendary just to sound informed and interesting. Perfect example, Nigeria VS India, Samuel Okparaji, need I say more?

Reiyvinn:

Exactly!!!

People pepper their versions into simple events and make the whole thing complicated and legendary just to sound informed and interesting. Perfect example, Nigeria VS India, Samuel Okparaji, need I say more?

U mean the story of the Indian soccer team? HAHAHA, that's a good one. It's all over Africa though, not just Nigeria. The Indians haven't even heard of it.

Weah96:

U mean the story of the Indian soccer team? HAHAHA, that's a good one. It's all over Africa though, not just Nigeria. The Indians haven't even heard of it.

@bolded

LMAOO!!!!!!

Every African country claims that it was they who lost to India 100-0. And the goalie, abi, lion, is always in the story. I can't stop laughing.

qstar:

The biblical God is simply incompetent. Actually, in the bible stories, man fell more than two times and he(God) sought a remedy in each occasion.

The first was in the garden of eden.
The second was during the time of noah. He(God) committed the world's greatest record of genocide.
The most recent was about 2000years ago.

Predicting from the Bible stories, he(God) would soon come up with another impotent attempt. That is, if He is still alive now, maybe karma has caught up with him .

Weah96: Every African country claims that it was they who lost to India 100-0. And the goalie, abi, lion, is always in the story. I can't stop laughing.

which one seems quite more believable between the story and all the fairytale book called bible. As 4 me, I'd believe this oo.

Rhymeyjohn:
24 years?!, so obviously, you are above 30, i thought older people should act/talk wiser. If you know my age, you'd know you are insulting your years. Rather than being directionless about life, why not answer the simple questions.
Were you ever a christian? (not how many times you read the bible through, ok?)
Any concrete relationship with God ever (answer straight, please dont blab)
Whats life's purpose without God?
Am waiting for your diginified (i hope you are a dignified person) response. thanks

Oh shut ur mouth.

When people live christianity you begin to make claims that he was never a Christian
Just like how I can see all muslims who converted to christianity were never real muslims with relationship with Allah

JMAN05: @op

God has the ability to foreknow the future, but He does not use it always. ie, His omniscience is inherent, not total.

No one is going to burn in an everlasting fire. That isn't true. People interprete figurative statement as if it was literal.

God did not create satan, rather a righteous angel God created turned himself into being satan.

lmao..u should be ashamed of ur failure

If God doesn't always know everything then he isn't all knowing

It's nt about whether he wants to know or not.

Btw God choosing to be ignorant doesn't say well of your deity

Rayhut: From East to West no other God,from North to South I say there is no other GOD except the HOLY Almighty God,The I am that I am,through his begotten son Jesus Christ we are saved.All wisdom belong to him,mortal man searching for answers to all mystery of life is like engraving on the rock of Gibratta.

Yes, of course but what's ur prove?

I can say Zeus the Almighty is the true God, and we can reach him directly by wishing to the sky and praying in his name

Rayhut: Those doubting the existence of God should answer this one question,where is the source of juju,voodoo,witchcraft and supernational powers.This powers are they real or not.If they are real where is the source from

Ok, juju, voodoo, witchcraft and all supernatural powers comes from the creator of the universe

#am being serious

Apatheist:
Your ancestors had that and we're still sold into slavery, their gods did nothing.
Their gods are now works of art in museums.

When did your ancestors tell you that the Gods would come down and feed you

Reiyvinn: @Rayhut, you must be wondering why I didn't respond to the nonsense you wrote.... Well lemme save you the heart break.

I've heard numerous lies like, "I saw jack lift this box through telekinesis" therefore "juju is real." here in Nairaland.

Have you ever wondered:

* What happened at ALUU? How come the whole World knew about the event?

* The Ejigbo torture that took place around February last year, how come the World got to know even after the whole event had already passed by months and was witnessed by a few people??

Every odd, entertaining, eye-catching and even, in some cases, illegal event in Naija never escape the camera of an average Nigerian. Dana air crash site was captured Live burning, ALUU lynching scene was captured Live, pictures and videos filled the internet of all these events but surprisingly, the only places we find capture of Live juju action tend to only exist in Nollywood movies.

What's the matter?

Why do Nigerians forget their smartphones at home whenever these mindblowing shows take place?! (who doesn't want blog traffic or Youtube views?)

Actually, those things never happened.

I used to be among those bunch of losers who came on religious boards proclaiming that I saw a LIVE juju take place before my very eyes when I actually didn't: I just heard from people who heard it from people and so goes the chain.

Stories of Miss Koikoi, Bunk Shaker and other bullshit we were told in Boarding school weren't different at all.

Whites don't believe in juju yet they better us in every aspect in live, why? Are the gods insane or what?

Ok, let's assume juju works. How does that prove that your god is the real god when there are approximately a hundred million gods to contend with

OOGA OH!

May the spirit of sonpana save this country from further daftness and stupidity

Be deceiving yourselves, Juju is what English call enchantment and sorcery which many believe...maybe not interested in

Mr Op. In as much as your thread may sound blasphemous but as a Christian I will give you the benefit of doubt maybe you are an unbeliever who needs Christ or you don't belive God exist.

Many people had answer your questions very well and biblically for that matter.
But I know you won't believe these answers until you experience them.
Accept Jesus as your Lord and savior and these questions will vanish. I'm not trying to be insulting but I would say you lack gratification, satisfaction, drive, purpose for your inner man. And only Jesus can answer these questions. Don't die in sin trying to use your brain to theorize, philosophizing, and use your mind to understand God. Canal mind can't know.the things of the spirit. Accept Jesus and see the results.

You will thank me later.

qstar:

The biblical God is simply incompetent. Actually, in the bible stories, man fell more than two times and he(God) sought a remedy in each occasion.

The first was in the garden of eden.
The second was during the time of noah. He(God) committed the world's greatest record of genocide.
The most recent was about 2000years ago.

Predicting from the Bible stories, he(God) would soon come up with another impotent attempt. That is, if He is still alive now, maybe karma has caught up with him .

so he is not omnipotent afterall..karma is a biatch

bisdansun: Mr Op. In as much as your thread may sound blasphemous but as a Christian I will give you the benefit of doubt maybe you are an unbeliever who needs Christ or you don't belive God exist.

Many people had answer your questions very well and biblically for that matter.
But I know you won't believe these answers until you experience them.
Accept Jesus as your Lord and savior and these questions will vanish. I'm not trying to be insulting but I would say you lack gratification, satisfaction, drive, purpose for your inner man. And only Jesus can answer these questions. Don't die in sin trying to use your brain to theorize, philosophizing, and use your mind to understand God. Canal mind can't know.the things of the spirit. Accept Jesus and see the results.

You will thank me later.

your signature says it all...what do you expect from a man that want to rule and not lead?? brainwashing fairytales to keep people in check

bisdansun: Mr Op. In as much as your thread may sound blasphemous but as a Christian I will give you the benefit of doubt maybe you are an unbeliever who needs Christ or you don't belive God exist.

Many people had answer your questions very well and biblically for that matter.
But I know you won't believe these answers until you experience them.
Accept Jesus as your Lord and savior and these questions will vanish. I'm not trying to be insulting but I would say you lack gratification, satisfaction, drive, purpose for your inner man. And only Jesus can answer these questions. Don't die in sin trying to use your brain to theorize, philosophizing, and use your mind to understand God. Canal mind can't know.the things of the spirit. Accept Jesus and see the results.

You will thank me later.

and what happens if he doesn't accept him, he burns in hell till eternity... Dude! Use your brain don't leave it idle.

macof:


Be deceiving yourselves, Juju is what English call magic and sorcery which many believe...maybe not interested in

maybe I'm wrong, maybe it works, maybe those practising it are not interested in 1 Million dollars promised to whoever can prove it. What a waste! I'm so daft that I haven't joined the list of Africa's richest men yet when such a thing exists....

BULLSHIT!!

I guess the gods of our land went shopping when the whites came, colonized and took our black asses for slavery.

Reiyvinn:

maybe I'm wrong, maybe it works, maybe those practising it are not interested in 1 Million dollars promised to whoever can prove it. What a waste! I'm so daft that I haven't joined the list of Africa's richest men yet when such a thing exists....

BULLSHIT!!

I guess the gods of our land went shopping when the whites came, colonized and took our black asses for slavery.

You are really daft. You said whites don't believe in juju and that's because you are a caged in bush man who has never come in contact wit a caucasian that believes in magic
The fact that most aren't interested in practising doesn't mean they don't consider it's reality

what 1 million dollars??

And when did your ancestors tell you that the Gods would come down to feed you?

[quote author=benny4wax]op...i understand your concern and worries, i too have asked those same questions and more but the only answer i get is silence.

i am a sociologist and if i am to apply sociological knowledge and understanding to your question, we all will be miss-led so let me leave that for another time , but if you are very currious to understand what i am talking about then do a research on SOCIOLOGY OF RELIGION you will find answers.

To me religion is a man made invention which he uses to
i disagree with you. mankind would be peaceful without religion.

Reiyvinn:

I guess you are a JW (Jehovah's Witness), SDA (Seventh-Day Adventist) or one of those who try to make your God more "loving" than it's actually written of him.

Let's analyse your point bit by bit:



I once witnessed a court case where a man received a sentence regarding a boy who died in his family. He didn't murder this boy. He had worked on his Car earlier and there was oil spill all over. He coulda cleaned it up. He knew it was bad to leave it that way but left it anyway. Unfortunately for him, this young lad walked through that same place that day, slipped, and hit the back of his head on the floor dying on the spot. He unwittingly killed that boy because of his negligence.

The same is the case if we assume that your God has the ability to know if the creation of this being would eventually result to the catastrophic breakdown of his plan for us and yet, refuse to exercise that knowledge..... What is the excuse?

Thanks for ur reply, however, you cannot preprogram someone and still hold hin responsible for his actions. When God gives commands, He usually says "if", that is, there actions will show what there reward/punishment will be. Even on the part of Adam, God gave condition for attaining life eternal.

Your point, if I understand, is that He could have created those He knew will never sin. Bt that is predestination, there future would have been foreknown. To do that, those creatures would be predestined.

But bear this in mind; that someone is created with the ability to sin does not mean he would sin. In short, perfect persons do not have the sinful inclination. A move from them to sin is deliberate.

I give an eg: Let say a man who has many cars that were in a sound condition. Instead of choosen one of these sound cars went and pick up a car he had been warned by his mechanic would have accident when he uses it. Other cars were available but he went and carried that car with 100% risk of accident, maybe cos his friend told him to use it.

What will you think of that man?

Perfect persons do not have sinful inclination. It is in there nature to do what is right. So there doing what is wrong is uncalled for, it us like that man who picked up a car he knew is doomed to fail.

Rememner meriads of angels were in heaven obeying God prior to the creation of Adam and Eve. So how would God have been concerned about there being tempted, or that they would ignore His words. Even if they finally decides to rebel, that is there choice.

Thirdly, God do not want robots, He want people who would serve Him with their freedom. People who would be free like Him, but who choose to serve Him with there freewill.

Furthermore, your definition of Omniscience makes your God incompetent and un-Godlike.

I dont agree with you. The definition make sense.

Omniscience (gotten from the latin words "OMNI" [all] and "SCIRE" [knowledge]) is not just the "ability" to know all things BUT the knowledge of all things. (just as Omnipotence is not the "ability" to be all-powerful BUT to be all-powerful).

It's both inherent and total (i.e. He, according to the books, has the ability and actually knows all things).

According to which books? Omniscience is not found in the bible, we only explain what God is based on what we read about Him in the scriptures. Omniscience is either inherent or total. From the scriptures, we can infer He is inherently omniscient.

After God tested Abraham with his son, and abraham passed the test, Jehovah stated at Gen 22:12, that 'Now He do know that abraham is God fearing'.

This shows that God never wanted to use His foreknowledge here.

Atimes God instructs His servants and tell them if they obey Him, they will receive a certain blessings. Compare Exod 19:5, 6.

Revelation 22:17 says that "let anyone that wishes take life's water free". This indicate that our individual decisions have a part to play in our future destiny.

From this little explanation, dont you think is wise to conclude that God never predestined everything?

God has the ability to know, but this does not mean that God preknow the number of sand in the sole of your shoes, at what time you will look at the color of ur cloth, when and how you will deficate, and so many other little things. But God can know them if He wishes, but He does not in every case start foreknowing our every inch of move.

Eg, imagine after you greeted a fellow, your friend comes to tell you that the one you greeted had a little stain in his shirt. You saw the man, greeted him, but you never directed your attention with a goal to critically analyse his attire. Not that you cant do that, but that was not your concern at the time. But you can go back to the man and critically analyse him to confirm ur friend's observation.

This could help us understand that God has the ability to foreknow, but uses this ability selectively.

Well that's your problem. I won't stress myself proving the contrary to you. Whether eternal burning or everlasting death/destruction, the All-Knowing and All-Loving God still failed keeping his supposedly "good" purpose for man (which means that there are people who are just created for destruction).

Your actions define your reward. What you sow, you shall reap. That is a loving arrangement.

I.) God created a righteous angel who turned himself into being satan:

What has changed? Nothing!

It still talks of a God who failed in his duty as God in that either:

* His original purpose (that this righteous angel remained righteous) failed, or

* His purpose never failed, thus, Satan (not the righteour angel) was his original purpose.

A lot changed. A purpose is not a plan. With plan you can write out a step by step means of reaching ur destination. A compromise of one step could ruin your plan.

In another vein, a purpose for eg can be illustrated with someone who has a goal to go to lagos. If this man takes off in his car and got delayed by trafic throughout the whole day, his goal of going to lagos has not failed, it was only delayed.

But in a plan, your every move is stated, and anything that affects the "map" you ve drawn out can ruin the plan.

That Satan emerged did not change the purpose, nor did it stop its fulfilment. It may have delayed it, but His purpose must be fulfilled. Satan's destruction is sure.

God never created Satan. God created a Cherub for a wonderful job, but his actions made him Satan. "Satan" or "Devil" are words used to define the kind of attitude he manifested and keep manifesting.

No one gives birth to militant, but someone can grow up, initiate a campaign against injustice such that his actions could be termed militancy. He was not born militant.

Because of Adam and Eve, anyone produced through sexual intercourse is born imperfect, none is however born criminal, but it is some people's actions that change their "title" to criminal.

God never created someone Satan, but his actions made him satan.

God do not create anyone imperfect persons, but sin by our first parents made us imperfect, so did satan's action make him satan.

II.) Satan: Once a righteous angel??

Firstly, this statement has no proof.

The "Lucifer" (Shining One) of Isaiah 14:12 isn't referring to Satan but to the King of Babylon in metaphors (the same chapter even stated that the king was thrown down to She'ohl, among the dead..... Is Satan dead?)

Those words are not for satan. It is true that the demotion stated there could describe satan's fallen state, it is however not for satan.
Remember also that many thing written there is meant to be a taunt, not as if it was what really happened.

Nowhere in the Bible states that God originally made Satan as a righteous angel before he "went wild." rather, the Bible cites Jesus saying that "Satan was a liar and murderer from the beginning" (John 8:44). From the beginning, he was Satan the murderer, never a righeous angel, just a programmed virus designed by God to kill (just as there are lying spirits in heaven designed by God to lie and to deceive people, 2 Chron. 18:21).

What a loving God we have!

That john 8:44 stated that satan did not "stand fast in the truth". This means that he was once in the truth, but never remained there forever. Ezek 28: 14, 15 adds to this conclusion.

The word "beginning" does not always refer to when all things were created.

This "beginning" could refer to the start of his wrong step. But more correctly, it is best to conclude that that beginning is from the garden of Eden, since he was assigned there as a guardian angel. He must have been righteous to receive the assignment.

2 Chronicle did not say that God created that angel deceptive. The angel himself volunteered to do the job.

JMAN05:
According to which books? Omniscience is not found in the bible, we only explain what God is based on what we read about Him in the scriptures. Omniscience is either inherent or total. From the scriptures, we can infer He is inherently omniscient.

Job 28:24
For he looks to the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens.

Hebrews 4:13
And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Matthew 10:30
But even the hairs of your head are all numbered.

Psalm 139:4
Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O LORD, you know it altogether.

Revelations 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

1 John 3:19-20
By this we shall know that we are of the truth and
reassure our heart before him; for whenever our
heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart,
and he knows everything.

From this little explanation, don't you think is wise to conclude that God never predestined everything?

Isaiah 46:9
I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done.

My oh my!!..these atheists are always talkin abt God(who they dnt believe in).

what I've observed, is dat weneva they are arguing abt d existence or non_existence of God,1 tin is always hovering at d back of deir minds nd dat is:they want to be proven wrong nd they are searching for dat person who will prove beyond doubt to dem dat dere's God.

Knowing God nd knwin d truth abt Him requires dat u go spiritual..dere are some mysteries ur canal knwledge can't nd won't unravel no mata who u are....#i Pray God gives u d wisdom to understand his ways....#plus,dnt study d bible if u knw d motive of u doing so is to criticize it,pray for divine understanding frm above

Toyolad: My oh my!!..these atheists are always talkin abt God(who they dnt believe in).

what I've observed, is dat weneva they are arguing abt d existence or non_existence of God,1 tin is always hovering at d back of deir minds nd dat is:they want to be proven wrong nd they are searching for dat person who will prove beyond doubt to dem dat dere's God.

Knowing God nd knwin d truth abt Him requires dat u go spiritual..dere are some mysteries ur canal knwledge can't nd won't get to d root of no mata who u are....#i Pray God gives u d wisdom to understand his ways....#plus,dnt study d bible if u knw d motive of u doing so is to criticize it,pray for divine understanding frm above

My oh my... And you are always looking out for atheists (who you regard as fools).

Nobody seeks your rebuttal (not even sure you're capable of giving any).
This is Nairaland forum, everybody is entitled to his/her opinion. You either accede to an opinion or you go contrary, in either case, no qualm. Just know that everybody will not believe what you believe.