The moderator that moved this thread to front page is not doing anything good.

everybody, everything that is conscious is an orisha. irunmoles are orishas on the universal level.
however there can be human manifestations(not incannation) of irunmoles. e.g jeshua ben joseph is an human manifestation of the universal JESUS, and the different obatalas and oduduwas recorded in yoruba history are human manifestation of obatala and oduduwa on the universal level.

amor4ce: This question is drawn from the historical records of Ifa of which I seek a better understanding.

After the flood, Olodumare decided to create another set of beings to do his will on this planet. He created a female, Eni-bi-eni (translated as “One in our likeness”) a.k.a. Ninibinini, and handed her to an Irunmole known as Ènìyàn to be his wife and for both of them to populate the world. They begat 16 children - 8 sets of twins - otherwise known as ọmọ ènìyàn but afterward more and more people were created, the last being the oyinbo. (see THE CREATION STORY - http://ifatraining.weebly.com/library.html)

Given that: Irunmole[/i]s are spirit entities (say, ministers of light); [i]Orisha[/i]s are thought of as humans who accomplished exemplary feats for which they were duly recognized and elevated to the status of [i]Orisha[/i]s; the traditional concept of reincarnation is that parents can come to this world again as offspring of their children and children can birth (become ancestors of) their parents; there are numerous records in [i]Ifa of various Irunmole[/i]s having children; and there seems to be no rule in [i]Ifa (to my knowledge) excluding such Irunmole[/i]s from reincarnation;

1. is it impossible for the offspring of these [i]Irunmole[/i]s to have as descendants these [i]Irunmole[/i]s, and if so
2. if (1) above is true, wouldn't the [i]Orisha[/i]s be the reincarnated [i]Irunmole[/i]s?
If you say that it is impossible or possible, kindly try to support your position with logical (step-by-step) arguments. One reason for bringing up this topic is that I hope we can use our conclusions to inform ourselves better about various versions of certain events in history as recorded in Ifa.

NOTE: [i]Ènìyàn is the same person as Iwa who is Oluiwa and also known as Oduduwa; the beings who dominated this world before the flood are known as Eníyán (the rejected ones) and some escaped the flood (examples include the beasts described in the biblical books of Daniel and Revelations; the famous Yoruba author known as Fagunwa used them for his book "Igbo Olodumare" or "Forest of a thousand demons".

listen and listen very good u evil doer,"we are in d last days when jesus might show up any moment from now,things re going wrong,more souls re cast into hell daily,"yet d best u can do is to add salt to dis social injury by asking some useless question dat will make soul start believing in dieties where as its d devil dat is operating. Pls dnt wash ur dirty laundry in public next time.GO TO HELL ALONE.

kekakuz:

ogboju ode ninu Igbo irunmole
baddest literature evor. reading one page will give you nightmares for weeks

do u still have that book.

pagan9ja never talk for here o

Another dumb azz question on front again!

Shebi na Zeus wey born hades. Who come born hercules? Hercules and Sango na the same mama the same papa.. Na after dem come born jesus the white.. All of them na product of pre marital sex.. The story too long I dey come meh I finish it

2prexios: D.O. Fagunwa's epic compares with 'The pilgrim progress.' How I loved 'Ireke Onibudo', it was my best thriller of all. Amo4ce, karaole o, I miss you quite much, cheers.

Sorry, do you know where online that i can get that book? Ireke Onibudo and Igbo Olodunmare

MetaPhysical: Amor4ce, Prexious, it's nice to converge with you enlightened souls again.

This is a nice topic to use in exploring the hidden messages in a number of documented Yoruba myths, classics and tales: Igbo Olodumare, Ogboju Ode ninu Igbo Irunmale, Ireke Onibudo, The Myths of Ife, and so on...

Sorry, do you know where i can get these books online?

obviously u dont have a gainful thing to engage your time on?and what if they do?

hunter21: everybody, everything that is conscious is an orisha. irunmoles are orishas on the universal level.
however there can be human manifestations(not incannation) of irunmoles. e.g jeshua ben joseph is an human manifestation of the universal JESUS, and the different obatalas and oduduwas recorded in yoruba history are human manifestation of obatala and oduduwa on the universal level.

a beautiful analysis
This is where identifying history and spirituality in the Yoruba society comes in

For instance,
Oduduwa coming from the sky, doesn't mean a man falling from space.
It's a "spiritual" event passed with coding

As the OP said Oduduwa is also Olu-Iwa/Olu-Iwaye. That is lord of the earth's existence or the existence of the physical plain

Oduduwa is both Irunmole and Orisha depending on your point of view and understanding of the stories concerning the name and personality

Orisha is basically anything given high reference and adoration, selected from the whole as one to be special.
I call my girl my Orisa, I call my mother my Orisa. Your favorite thing in the world is an Orisha to you. Irunmole are also Orisha in common Yoruba
Everything has Consciousness but the Orisa are selected consciousness, it is it's energies that so influences

But the Irunmole work on a different plain, as independent unseen energies that sustain our world, extensive forms of Olodumare.
They are present in everything - stars, planets and just space.

They cannot exist as men, but their energies aee present in men.

Most Orisha in Yoruba history like Orunmila Baba Agbonmiregun, were filled with the energies of the Irunmole to a very unusual level.
Every Irunmole that is known in Ifa, has represented itself in the Ori of a Great man in Yoruba history or simply manifested as an obvious aspect of existence in this world

Look at Ogun, how many people in history are called Ogun? So many, one in Ire-Ekiti, another in Saki Oyo, one in Ife another in Idanre...but When we speak of Osinmole the Great lord and sustainer of the metallic elements we are not talking men but spirit

As much as I don't believe in deities, I admire the richness of Ʊя̩̥̊ research, the depth of Ʊя̩̥̊ knowledge and Ʊя̩̥̊ passion for the belief.
PS: I don't believe in re-incarnation too.

FOLYKAZE: The moderator that moved this thread to front page is not doing anything good.

I agree. amor4ace topics on Traditional Religion should neve be encouraged and allowed on frontpage.

The guy is clearly trying to equate Yoruba religion with abrahamic concepts.

amor4ace is a christian agent in disguise.


Orishas are GODS not humans.

There is no floods and the first humans were not created in this manner.

Evolution occured and Creation myths are meant to explain the beginings of a tribe only.

These are stories not to be taken literally.

Next Thread.

Interesting piece we have here.


I commento ma reservo.

messpero90: listen and listen very good u evil doer,"we are in d last days when jesus might show up any moment from now,things re going wrong,more souls re cast into hell daily,"yet d best u can do is to add salt to dis social injury by asking some useless question dat will make soul start believing in dieties where as its d devil dat is operating. Pls dnt wash ur dirty laundry in public next time.GO TO HELL ALONE.

when are we going to learn respecting other peoples opinion/believe ?? ??

Abiagirl777: Yes they reincarnate to become
NORTHERN NIgERIANS.

they reincarnate to become boko haram

.

jobsat34:

when are we going to learn respecting other peoples opinion/believe ?? ??

you re lucky dat Jesus came and abolish d law of moses, if nt u would have stoned to death for blasphemy.

*scrolling thread looking for pagan naija*

messpero90: you re lucky dat Jesus came and abolish d law of moses, if nt u would have stoned to death for blasphemy.

you are lucky that we are having a clueless/non_working system of govt, you would have been behind bar for attempted murderer..

jobsat34:

you are lucky that we are having a clueless/non_working system of govt, you would have been behind bar for attempted murderer..

ha ha ha ha anyway i count exchange words with u bcaus ure still a *KID.

messpero90: ha ha ha ha anyway i count exchange words with u bcaus ure still a *KID.

dont be mistaken.. i m openminded.. not insultin yu.. guess yu can recognise sarcasm if yu see one.. besides, i m not the OP naa..
i only say we should try and respect others opinion nii..
mind you, Yiyo Ekun, Kii se Tojo..

if I hear...why are we discussing things like this here?




Boko Haram: This Is The Solution To The Madness >>> http://www..com/this-is-the-solution-to-the-madness/

jobsat34:

dont be mistaken.. i m openminded.. not insultin yu.. guess yu can recognise sarcasm if yu see one.. besides, i m not the OP naa..
i only say we should try and respect others opinion nii..
mind you, Yiyo Ekun, Kii se Tojo..

wharever.

Who post this nonsense?

messpero90: wharever.

the best reply so far...

IBA SE OLODUMARE OBA RERE KAYY AYEEEEEE.

messpero90: listen and listen very good u evil doer,"we are in d last days when jesus might show up any moment from now,things re going wrong,more souls re cast into hell daily,"yet d best u can do is to add salt to dis social injury by asking some useless question dat will make soul start believing in dieties where as its d devil dat is operating. Pls dnt wash ur dirty laundry in public next time.GO TO HELL ALONE.

Please try and respect other people's belief.

I'm not of any Yoruba religion nor believe in deities but that doesn't mean I should insult what they believe in.

If you are a christian then stick and believe in your Christianity, to your own is your belief to them is theirs.

It is people like that mix religion with family ties and cut the ties because they believe in what you don't believe.

Jamean:

The dude is right, learn to respect people's opinion 'cause they are entitled to it.

Pls don't be a religious extremist engulfed with the 'Aza Bilivoh Syndrome'

As a believer #Aza bilivoh Syndrome# is when you rub christian religion, your knowledge of God or faith into everything you do or say irrespective of the subject.

When you do this 'Aza bilivoh' thing, you loose many chances of winning people to Christ 'cause you don't come down to their level, relate and connect with them.
You make it seem like you know and trust God more than other people.

Bilivoh's should watch against acting this way, it is 'Self-righteousness'.

yu too talk am.. i am a christian, though not an EXTREMIST like him.. i use to ask myself this questions..
1. what if i m not opportune to know christ ?? (if i was not born a Christian and never had any contact with christianity)
2. can we fight for God ??
3. Does God has/approve of a particular religion ??

can anyone answer these questions with biblical/Quranic citations