Dazzlee: I'm sorry but you have still not made any point. To me, you're the one ranting here.

The healthcare system is an interdependent organization. No professional can perform adequately without the assistance of the others. So now, because some members of the healthcare system want to become specialists (consultants) in their respective fields, some greedy individuals decided to go on strike? How pathetic!

They are ranting and raving about the number of years they spent in the tertiary institution and how they read their brains out. So the others went to pick beans in the university, abi? Mind you, I believe them becoming specialists should require them furthering their education in other for them to meet certain standards.
I have a feeling these doctors are afraid of losing their position as the 'boss' of the hospital....
If we had Nurse Practioners (nurses who are trained and licensed to diagnose and treat both chronic and acute diseases, and prescribe drugs) in this part of the world, the hospitals would still be running quite well without the doctors.


One thing I know, if this 'evolution' doesn't happen now, it definately will later. So y'all can keep enjoying while it lasts..... And please, kindly call off the damn strike people are dying......

Sorry honey, you cannot be a consultant with this kwashiokor curriculum you are running, if you cannot expand it to be broad as much as the doctor's, then the academically superior doctor just have to be your CMD.
Since you people did not pick beans in the university, why are the patients dying in the absence of the doctors?

HIV1: I have been reading the debate between the doctors and nurses for a while; I think the matters arising are both interesting and dangerous. Interesting from the point of view of political jargons that have been written to buttress each side arguments and dangerous from the point of view of numerous patients who are suffering and are bearing the brunt of the strike.
I am not a medical practitioner so I remain neutral in this argument. I have always believed that knowledge is holistic, it cannot be departmentalized. The depart mentality of knowledge is born out of necessity and that is why in field like economics, they always talk about division of labour , in essence, it not possible for a single individual to be a doctor, a nurse, a laboratory scientist etc. Because nobody is capable of having all knowledge, and no knowledge is superior to another, it then becomes inevitable to for everybody to respect what others know and you know not. That is what keeps a normal society running.
From the little I have gathered on the subject matter, the post of chief medical director as uphold in the constitution is meant for medical doctors. From my own point of view, one does need to be a medical expert but someone with good degree who has acquired ample experience in health industry to occupy the position and perform effectively. A good example is Dangote flour. Dagote might not know how to produce flour in detail, but sure know how to combine various factors of production together to achieve his aim. Such knowledge would have been acquired overs the years through his entrepreneurship. The same way a matron, or lab scientist with long years of service merit the post. Not all doctors are brilliant and not all nurses /pharmacists are mooron
I think what is causing the problems between doctors and nurses is that doctors don’t want change and change is the only thing that is permanent. They are somehow arrogant from my own perspective. If a nurse is appointed as a chief medical director at a point in time, s/he should be accorded due respect as demand by the position after all a money miss road that owns private hospitals do give them order which they abide. .
They the doctor should remember the oath of thier prossion and eschew personnal aggrandisement and greediness and go back to work for the
sake of the patients.

A Federal teaching hospital can now be likened to Dangote flour? I hail Nigerians!!

Aura2:


Sorry honey, you cannot be a consultant with this kwashiokor curriculum you are running, if you cannot expand it to be broad as much as the doctor's, then the academically superior doctor just have to be your CMD.
Since you people did not pick beans in the university, why are the patients dying in the absence of the doctors?

........and I thought I was blunt...lol

the same way you liken the hospital and patient care to aircraft and court. lol

Aura2:

A Federal teaching hospital can now be likened to Dangote flour? I hail Nigerians!!

and I guess patients were not dying when Doctors were working abi? Imagine? hehehehheeheh. Whe patients die in German hospitals and other developed countries with the most sophisticated healthcare. when our hospitals are nothing more than mortuary when Drs were working. You are here claiming miracle workers. I'm sure patients did not die when JOHESU went on strike. Infact they received the best care when only Drs were working Mtcheeeeww

Aura2:


Sorry honey, you cannot be a consultant with this kwashiokor curriculum you are running, if you cannot expand it to be broad as much as the doctor's, then the academically superior doctor just have to be your CMD.
Since you people did not pick beans in the university, why are the patients dying in the absence of the doctors?

Aura2:


Sorry honey, you cannot be a consultant with this kwashiokor curriculum you are running, if you cannot expand it to be broad as much as the doctor's, then the academically superior doctor just have to be your CMD.
Since you people did not pick beans in the university, why are the patients dying in the absence of the doctors?

Lol....don't let your reasoning be so myopic. Firstly, I'm not in the healthcare sector so I'm not being biased. And then, what do you mean by kwashiorkor curriculum? Are you trying to say that every other health professional excluding the doctors runs a 'malnourished' curriculum. Hmm.....I'm beginning to wonder, if the radiologists, microbiologists, pharmacists, physiotherapist and the rest perform kwashiorkor duties, how do patients receive total care? Maybe the doctors could run the tests, perform rehabilitation exercises, do the x-rays and ultrasounds, nurse the patients and carry out the other 'kwashiorkor' duties. Besides, they don't have to have exactly the same curriculum as doctors to be specialists in their respective fields. Pharmacy is not medicine, and medicin is not pharmacy. The same goes for other professions. And when you say academically superior, my dear when it comes to healthcare, no one is 'academically superior', a doctor would barely pass a pharmacy qualifying examination or nursing qualifying examination unless he studies those fields fully and vice versa. No matter how much you claim you took pharmacy as a course in the university, you can't know pharmacy better than a pharmacist.

And to answer the bolded question, like I said earlier, don't be so short-sighted....if the radiologists go on strike, patients will die, if the nurses go on strike, patients will die and the same goes for other. The doctors cannot do a complete job without the rest so what's the problem? Them becoming consultants wouldn't reduce the doctors salarries or make them 'medical' doctors, would it?
If I want to become a consultant in my 'own' field, it shouldn't be anybody's problem as long as I meet the requirements needed to be a consultant in my field.


My $500000!

Dazzlee: Lol....don't let your reasoning be so myopic. Firstly, I'm not in the healthcare sector so I'm not being biased. And then, what do you mean by kwashiorkor curriculum? Are you trying to say that every other health professional excluding the doctors runs a 'malnourished' curriculum. Hmm.....I'm beginning to wonder, if the radiologists, microbiologists, pharmacists, physiotherapist and the rest perform kwashiorkor duties, how do patients receive total care? Maybe the doctors could run the tests, perform rehabilitation exercises, do the x-rays and ultrasounds, nurse the patients and carry out the other 'kwashiorkor' duties. Besides, they don't have to have exactly the same curriculum as doctors to be specialists in their respective fields. Pharmacy is not medicine, and medicin is not pharmacy. The same goes for other professions. And when you say academically superior, my dear when it comes to healthcare, no one is 'academically superior', a doctor would barely pass a pharmacy qualifying examination or nursing qualifying examination unless he studies those fields fully and vice versa. No matter how much you claim you took pharmacy as a course in the university, you can't know pharmacy better than a pharmacist.

And to answer the bolded question, like I said earlier, don't be so short-sighted....if the radiologists go on strike, patients will die, if the nurses go on strike, patients will die and the same goes for other. The doctors cannot do a complete job without the rest so what's the problem? Them becoming consultants wouldn't reduce the doctors salarries or make them 'medical' doctors, would it?
If I want to become a consultant in my 'own' field, it shouldn't be anybody's problem as long as I meet the requirements needed to be a consultant in my field.


My $500000!

You are a little fair though. That may be because you are not one of these Johesuites. Can't find bitterness and persecution complex in your post.

But let me highlight some points. When you said Radiologist, I guess the word you are looking for is radiographer. Radiologists by the way are doctors. They are consultants after their initial medical degree, 8years, and underwent further residency training for another 6years in the field of radiology. Radiographer is that guy you meet in that X-ray room shooting radiographs as requested by the doctor. Radiologist interprets the work of a radiographer. Got that?

To the second part, all these allied professionals pharmacist, Med lab guy, nurses, Radiographers, and what have you...believe me they are important and contribute one way or the other to the patients care. Ofcourse that's why they are entitled to their salaries. Problem starts when they want to place themselves in the same league with the doctor. You too, look at that. If you were a doctor, would you accept that? No I guess you won't; not because you don't like them or want them progress, but because you feel cheated; it offends all sensibility.

I don't know why people want to blame doctors. OK see, see, if you go to the ATM and queue up, you have been there standing for long, and all of a sudden somebody comes, no respect for you or due process, attempts to insert himself into the queue right in front of you, would you just look away, smile and say, after all, he doesn't disturb me ? If 5 others people come and do the same, would you still rather smile and drink to it? Or would you frown at the first guy who wants to cheat to deter other potential cheats? I would appreciate you answer me sincerely if you are going to reply to this.

Doctors maturity is being taken for granted over the years. They are even forming a rebel group against doctors --JOHESU. All of them gang up in an amorphous group against their only one common enemy. Do you see beef there?

Interesting thing is that this envy has started right from their student days. Most couldn't meet up with the rigorous selection process of university admission, some who did got frustrated out of medical school. Can you blame doctors for that? That's the reality of life my brother. You can't always get what you want, and have to be contempt with the one life gives you.

Some of them hold eternal grieve in their heart, and will spit bile on any successful doctor at any rate. Only few of them actually chose their course and you won't see these ones insulting doctors.

We love all of them; doctors are only frawning at any attempt of some people trying to come through the backdoor.

skelewu74:

You are a little fair though. That may be because you are not one of these Johesuites. Can't find bitterness and persecution complex in your post.

But let me highlight some points. When you said Radiologist, I guess the word you are looking for is radiographer. Radiologists by the way are doctors. They are consultants after their initial medical degree, 8years, and underwent further residency training for another 6years in the field of radiology. Radiographer is that guy you meet in that X-ray room shooting radiographs as requested by the doctor. Radiologist interprets the work of a radiographer. Got that?

To the second part, all these allied professionals pharmacist, Med lab guy, nurses, Radiographers, and what have you...believe me they are important and contribute one way or the other to the patients care. Ofcourse that's why they are entitled to their salaries. Problem starts when they want to place themselves in the same league with the doctor. You too, look at that. If you were a doctor, would you accept that? No I guess you won't; not because you don't like them or want them progress, but because you feel cheated; it offends all sensibility.

I don't know why people want to blame doctors. OK see, see, if you go to the ATM and queue up, you have been there standing for long, and all of a sudden somebody comes, no respect for you or due process, attempts to insert himself into the queue right in front of you, would you just look away, smile and say, after all, he doesn't disturb me ? If 5 others people come and do the same, would you still rather smile and drink to it? Or would you frown at the first guy who wants to cheat to deter other potential cheats? I would appreciate you answer me sincerely if you are going to reply to this.

Doctors maturity is being taken for granted over the years. They are even forming a rebel group against doctors --JOHESU. All of them gang up in an amorphous group against their only one common enemy. Do you see beef there?

Interesting thing is that this envy has started right from their student days. Most couldn't meet up with the rigorous selection process of university admission, some who did got frustrated out of medical school. Can you blame doctors for that? That's the reality of life my brother. You can't always get what you want, and have to be contempt with the one life gives you.

Some of them hold eternal grieve in their heart, and will spit bile on any successful doctor at any rate. Only few of them actually chose their course and you won't see these ones insulting doctors.

We love all of them; doctors are only frawning at any attempt of some people trying to come through the backdoor.

and many of them are busy opening threads about benevolent doctors on nairaland every single day like if their lives depend on it

YourHealthlabs:

Contine to twists facts. I took your pathologists to court on the leadership of the medical laboratory. I threw them my books, and the courts upheld that i manage and control my lab as encapsulated in the federal gazette of the Medical Lab Council laws adopted by both the senate and HOR and signed by the President as a Nigerian law. It is a simple matter but you just want to dance around.

The court's verdicts---> run your clinical services as pathologists under your directorate, The Scientist should run their medical laboratory under their directorate. Anyone who understands this simple verdict should question the contents of his skull. We Scientists didn't make the law. Are we lawmakers.

Simple question What's the difference between an MLS and a pathologist--->

An MLS runs all the tests in the lab in the different departments: hematology, blood bank, micro, chemistry etc. The pathologist interfaces with the other clinical providers, and does autopsy. PATHOLOGISTS DO NOT RUN LAB TESTS.

They are different professionals, one does not seek to forcibly head the other.
This is for those who are still confused.

Pls stop confusing the general public , see the job description in the developed world, read and re read again pls

www.medicine.yale.edu/labmed/patients/faq.aspx

In fact, although you only meet them when you need very special types of laboratory procedures done, there are "laboratory doctors" (known as "laboratory medicine physicians" or "clinical pathologists" who supervise and directly carry-out these laboratory tests that are used to diagnose your illness and to determine what is the best treatment for your condition. The sample that gets sent to the lab represents (obviously) a "part of you" and that part needs to be examined the same way the doctor examines all of you in the office.

www.cap-acp.org/guidelines_laboratory_physicians.cfm

The pathologist must be involved in the technical aspects of the laboratory operation to properly assume final responsibility as the laboratory physician. The depth of involvement must be sufficient to ensure reliable results, which depend also on the presence of a well-trained chief technologist and technologists who carefully follow the instructions of the laboratory physician as defined in the contractual agreement. The services provided by the laboratory physician include supervision of clinical areas, chemistry, hematology, blood bank, microbiology, surgical pathology, cytology and autopsies. For these services, he or she is responsible for the timely production of medically useful and accurate information.


www.education-portal.com/articles/Medical_Pathologist_Job_Description_Salary_and_Career_Outlook.html
Clinical pathologists mainly examine body fluids, including blood, urine and bone marrow. They may conduct toxicology tests seeking the presence of illegal drugs and poisons, run a hospital blood bank and test patients' immune functions to detect allergies and toleration of transplant organs. Anatomical pathologists analyze samples of tissue and cells to aid in determining the diagnosis and cause of diseases. Once samples have been removed via surgery, biopsies or fine needle aspirations, anatomical pathologists may freeze and examine them under a microscope to view any abnormalities.

Although they most often work in hospitals, medical pathologists also can be found in clinics, medical schools, the military and government agencies. They are considered the 'doctor's doctor' because they aid doctors in making diagnosis, treatment and management decisions in hospitals and clinics. After consulting with clinicians, they conduct prescribed tests, analyze the results and prepare reports based on their findings.

skelewu74:

You are a little fair though. That may be because you are not one of these Johesuites. Can't find bitterness and persecution complex in your post.

But let me highlight some points. When you said Radiologist, I guess the word you are looking for is radiographer. Radiologists by the way are doctors. They are consultants after their initial medical degree, 8years, and underwent further residency training for another 6years in the field of radiology. Radiographer is that guy you meet in that X-ray room shooting radiographs as requested by the doctor. Radiologist interprets the work of a radiographer. Got that?

To the second part, all these allied professionals pharmacist, Med lab guy, nurses, Radiographers, and what have you...believe me they are important and contribute one way or the other to the patients care. Ofcourse that's why they are entitled to their salaries. Problem starts when they want to place themselves in the same league with the doctor. You too, look at that. If you were a doctor, would you accept that? No I guess you won't; not because you don't like them or want them progress, but because you feel cheated; it offends all sensibility.

I don't know why people want to blame doctors. OK see, see, if you go to the ATM and queue up, you have been there standing for long, and all of a sudden somebody comes, no respect for you or due process, attempts to insert himself into the queue right in front of you, would you just look away, smile and say, after all, he doesn't disturb me ? If 5 others people come and do the same, would you still rather smile and drink to it? Or would you frown at the first guy who wants to cheat to deter other potential cheats? I would appreciate you answer me sincerely if you are going to reply to this.

Doctors maturity is being taken for granted over the years. They are even forming a rebel group against doctors --JOHESU. All of them gang up in an amorphous group against their only one common enemy. Do you see beef there?

Interesting thing is that this envy has started right from their student days. Most couldn't meet up with the rigorous selection process of university admission, some who did got frustrated out of medical school. Can you blame doctors for that? That's the reality of life my brother. You can't always get what you want, and have to be contempt with the one life gives you.

Some of them hold eternal grieve in their heart, and will spit bile on any successful doctor at any rate. Only few of them actually chose their course and you won't see these ones insulting doctors.

We love all of them; doctors are only frawning at any attempt of some people trying to come through the backdoor.

I get what you're saying. And I agree with you, no one wants to be cheated on. I won't want to be cheated on too - I guess that answers your question.

But then, I still wonder, is the title 'consultant' only meant for doctors? Because to my understanding, a consultant is someone who has a broad knowledge about a particular subject and is emloyed to give advice about it to other people.

Btw, @bolded.....I'm a lady. And thanks for the correction. Radiographer, radiologist.....got it!

Dazzlee: I get what you're saying. And I agree with you, no one wants to be cheated on. I won't want to be cheated on too - I guess that answers your question.

But then, I still wonder, is the title 'consultant' only meant for doctors? Because to my understanding, a consultant is someone who has a broad knowledge about a particular subject and is emloyed to give advice about it to other people.

Btw, @bolded.....I'm a lady. And thanks for the correction. Radiographer, radiologist.....got it!

The title consultant is not meant for only Drs. there are consultant engineers tailors anything. As you said it simply means one who has attained a level of expertise in a particular field.

However in the hospital setting the title is reserved for specialist drs who are responsible for the treatment of the patient irrespective of the input from junior drs,nurses pharmacist etc.

That is why you hear terms like the Dr owns the patient, The consultant is responsible for anything that happens to the patient because it is expected that he/she is a specialist in that field and is able to take expert decisions in the management of the patient.

Dazzlee: I get what you're saying. And I agree with you, no one wants to be cheated on. I won't want to be cheated on too - I guess that answers your question.

But then, I still wonder, is the title 'consultant' only meant for doctors? Because to my understanding, a consultant is someone who has a broad knowledge about a particular subject and is emloyed to give advice about it to other people.

Btw, @bolded.....I'm a lady. And thanks for the correction. Radiographer, radiologist.....got it!

you are very correct as per your second paragraph.
truth is if the lab guys disappear, a doctor can always ask his patient to do his lab work in town.
a radiographer is licensed to 'expose' or 'photograph' the patient. a radiologist who happens to be a doctor who has specialized in that field INTERPRETS or REPORTS the image.
radiographers are not licensed to interprete these images. it is NOT part of their training. dont let them decieve you.any who does is committing an illegality.
the doctor (radiologist)STILL has the final say as regards diagnosing the patient.
the radiographers man the technical aspect of the whole thing but can't and are not supposed to interprete.
what nma is saying is that why make them consultants when there is no extra training and as such will not add value.
as a patient what are you consulting a consultant radiographer for? the radiologist is the only person that can answer the question...'what is the diagnosis?'

Dazzlee: I get what you're saying. And I agree with you, no one wants to be cheated on. I won't want to be cheated on too - I guess that answers your question.

But then, I still wonder, is the title 'consultant' only meant for doctors? Because to my understanding, a consultant is someone who has a broad knowledge about a particular subject and is emloyed to give advice about it to other people.

Btw, @bolded.....I'm a lady. And thanks for the correction. Radiographer, radiologist.....got it!

Alright. Thanks for your sincerity about the question I asked you. You are really open minded.

Now you asked me a question and it's my turn to answer you too. CONSULTANT, when it applies to the general public, especially as word-use, means a person who provides expert advice in a specific area. In that wise, it's not a post, or position, or a title. You are just an expert, and when anybody needs your advice at a point in time, they consult with you for your advice or guidance, and that's all. You can even be self employed eg you have your own fish farm or you have a dynamic dance group, other people can consult you, and you are like a consultant to them.

But that's nit the case in the hospital context. Consultants in the health field is an actual cadre of hierarchy. You ascend up the ladder to reach there on a journey of nothing less than 14 years of serious hard labour. Just like the General in the army, Air Marshall in Air force and Admirals in the Navy. These are actual ranks, which are jealously guided.

You would not see a paramilitary officer wake up one day, and because he has an eye on that military man's rank, say he wants to be "General" in their own profession too. Do you think the army would not react swiftly to the abuse of their ranking? Do you think the army would just look away and say, afterall it's in his own profession he wants to be General, and not in the army?

Naming the paramedics too the title or rank of a medic (doctors ) would be faced with the same swift reaction not only because it's cheating, it will cause confusion in the hospital, but also because these people are not even consulting anybody.

Have you been to the hospital before? Is there any day you asked to see the medical lab guy( who's just like you on clinical issues ) or the nurse or the pharmacist (who you don't even know is there until doctor writes your prescription and tells you to buy the drugs at the pharmacist? Or you may even go get your drugs outside the hospital if it's an OTC drugs ) or the Radiographers? Or whoelse?

This is cheating. And it's not only a cheating against the actual consultants; it's you that they want to cheat. They want to cover up their complexes and two, they will be paid by the government with YOUR (public ) money for being a cheat.

That's why NMA says NO to anyone who wants to get what's undue to him through the Backdoor.

sainty2k3:

Pls stop confusing the general public , see the job description in the developed world, read and re read again pls

www.medicine.yale.edu/labmed/patients/faq.aspx

In fact, although you only meet them when you need very special types of laboratory procedures done, there are "laboratory doctors" (known as "laboratory medicine physicians" or "clinical pathologists" who supervise and directly carry-out these laboratory tests that are used to diagnose your illness and to determine what is the best treatment for your condition. The sample that gets sent to the lab represents (obviously) a "part of you" and that part needs to be examined the same way the doctor examines all of you in the office.

www.cap-acp.org/guidelines_laboratory_physicians.cfm

The pathologist must be involved in the technical aspects of the laboratory operation to properly assume final responsibility as the laboratory physician. The depth of involvement must be sufficient to ensure reliable results, which depend also on the presence of a well-trained chief technologist and technologists who carefully follow the instructions of the laboratory physician as defined in the contractual agreement. The services provided by the laboratory physician include supervision of clinical areas, chemistry, hematology, blood bank, microbiology, surgical pathology, cytology and autopsies. For these services, he or she is responsible for the timely production of medically useful and accurate information.


www.education-portal.com/articles/Medical_Pathologist_Job_Description_Salary_and_Career_Outlook.html
Clinical pathologists mainly examine body fluids, including blood, urine and bone marrow. They may conduct toxicology tests seeking the presence of illegal drugs and poisons, run a hospital blood bank and test patients' immune functions to detect allergies and toleration of transplant organs. Anatomical pathologists analyze samples of tissue and cells to aid in determining the diagnosis and cause of diseases. Once samples have been removed via surgery, biopsies or fine needle aspirations, anatomical pathologists may freeze and examine them under a microscope to view any abnormalities.

Although they most often work in hospitals, medical pathologists also can be found in clinics, medical schools, the military and government agencies. They are considered the 'doctor's doctor' because they aid doctors in making diagnosis, treatment and management decisions in hospitals and clinics. After consulting with clinicians, they conduct prescribed tests, analyze the results and prepare reports based on their findings.

I checked out the first link you gave me here is what i found out--->Published in CAP January/February 1991 Newsletter,Published in CMAJ 1992. No sweat, but science(especially medical science) has since evolved within the past decades. Heck!, how many Americans used the internet in 1991. Roles have changed and are still changing. Aeronautic Engineers started out mechanic technicians. In 1991 there were no B.MLS- Scientists just technologists and technicians with associate diploma in Canada and Nigeria. Even medical doctors started out medical assistants in Nigeria(many of you run away from this fact). Evolution..my brother.
..............................................................................................................................................................................................
Now out of necessity we have this----> The technical supervisor may also be a scientist with a PhD, a Master's, or a bachelor's degree and experience. S/he is responsible for the technical and scientific [/b]oversight of the lab.
source-->http://labtestsonline.org/lab/who/start/1

^^^Now the above is in consonance with our LAWS as encapsulated in the MLSCN federal act.

Here is what a level-headed U.S pathologist has to say about the evolution of the modern clinical laboratory scientists. listen up---> "Within the last 50 years, increasing technical complexity of test methods and the demand for laboratory services encouraged the involvement of non-physician laboratory scientists. First involved primarily in test development, [b]non-physician laboratory scientists have, throughout the world, become involved in laboratory management, test performance, and result interpretation."

He continues----> Misbah points out that non-medical(physician) scientists “…have also successfully undertaken leadership roles within LM [Laboratory Medicine], including the directorship of diagnostic laboratories, thus precluding the absolute need for a medical degree in fulfilling most of the [laboratory professional’s] responsibilities…”

http://www.labsarevital.com/topics/labsarevital/labs-are-vital/2013/09/30/the-role-of-pathologists-in-the-clinical-laboratory

These people have done functional studies of the work-ability of the laboratory and have come up with these facts, which you may not be happy about. That a medical degree is FUNCTIONALLY NOT A PRE-REQUISITE FOR TAKING UP LEADERSHIP ROLES IN THE LAB is incontestible. Luckily Nigeria has toed the B.MLS line which was virtually non-existent in your 1991 even in Canada, but is today adopted in Canada where you lifted your out-dated sources.

http://www.unb.ca/academics/programs/undergrad/fr/medical/

Pick up a B.MLS curriculum and educate yourself bro, it fundamentally equips the Scientist to take up massive responsibilities in the laboratory with an eye on the future leadership roles in the lab. Today the Clinical/Medical Laboratory Scientist is more than ever equipped to take up TECHNICAL, MANAGERIAL AND DIRECTORIAL ROLES in our labs, while the Pathologists concentrate on autopsy and pathologist-physician interfacing on clinical issues(for now).

***I said "for now" because in some years time it's likely going to be a "Scientist-physician" clinical interface as we move closer to positively answer this bolded question asked by the same pathologist here---> Their(non-physician scientists) expanding role in what has historically been recognized as the practice of medicine has created a conundrum: are non-physicians Scientists truly qualified to advise clinicians, interpret tests in clinical contexts, or recommend testing for specific patients?

The answer to that bolded question will be a RESOUNDING YES in few years to come. The signs are there.

Thank you.

prettyprettywow: and I guess patients were not dying when Doctors were working abi? Imagine? hehehehheeheh. Whe patients die in German hospitals and other developed countries with the most sophisticated healthcare. when our hospitals are nothing more than mortuary when Drs were working. You are here claiming miracle workers. I'm sure patients did not die when JOHESU went on strike. Infact they received the best care when only Drs were working Mtcheeeeww

The bolded got me laughing hard. lol

YourHealthlab: //:are non-physicians Scientists truly qualified to advise clinicians, interpret tests in clinical contexts, or recommend testing for specific patients?//

There's no law against daydreaming. But you should not indulge in it.

YourHealthlabs:

I checked out the first link you gave me here is what i found out--->Published in CAP January/February 1991 Newsletter,Published in CMAJ 1992. No sweat, but science(especially medical science) has since evolved within the past decades. Heck!, how many Americans used the internet in 1991. Roles have changed and are still changing. Aeronautic Engineers started out mechanic technicians. In 1991 there were no B.MLS- Scientists just technologists and technicians with associate diploma in Canada and Nigeria. Even medical doctors started out medical assistants in Nigeria(many of you run away from this fact). Evolution..my brother.
..............................................................................................................................................................................................
Now out of necessity we have this----> The technical supervisor may also be a scientist with a PhD, a Master's, or a bachelor's degree and experience. S/he is responsible for the technical and scientific [/b]oversight of the lab.
source-->http://labtestsonline.org/lab/who/start/1

^^^Now the above is in consonance with our LAWS as encapsulated in the MLSCN federal act.

Here is what a level-headed U.S pathologist has to say about the evolution of the modern clinical laboratory scientists. listen up---> "Within the last 50 years, increasing technical complexity of test methods and the demand for laboratory services encouraged the involvement of non-physician laboratory scientists. First involved primarily in test development, [b]non-physician laboratory scientists have, throughout the world, become involved in laboratory management, test performance, and result interpretation."

He continues----> Misbah points out that non-medical(physician) scientists “…have also successfully undertaken leadership roles within LM [Laboratory Medicine], including the directorship of diagnostic laboratories, thus precluding the absolute need for a medical degree in fulfilling most of the [laboratory professional’s] responsibilities…”

http://www.labsarevital.com/topics/labsarevital/labs-are-vital/2013/09/30/the-role-of-pathologists-in-the-clinical-laboratory

These people have done functional studies of the work-ability of the laboratory and have come up with these facts, which you may not be happy about. That a medical degree is FUNCTIONALLY NOT A PRE-REQUISITE FOR TAKING UP LEADERSHIP ROLES IN THE LAB is incontestible. Luckily Nigeria has toed the B.MLS line which was virtually non-existent in your 1991 even in Canada, but is today adopted in Canada where you lifted your out-dated sources.

http://www.unb.ca/academics/programs/undergrad/fr/medical/

Pick up a B.MLS curriculum and educate yourself bro, it fundamentally equips the Scientist to take up massive responsibilities in the laboratory with an eye on the future leadership roles in the lab. Today the Clinical/Medical Laboratory Scientist is more than ever equipped to take up TECHNICAL, MANAGERIAL AND DIRECTORIAL ROLES in our labs, while the Pathologists concentrate on autopsy and pathologist-physician interfacing on clinical issues(for now).

***I said "for now" because in some years time it's likely going to be a "Scientist-physician" clinical interface as we move closer to positively answer this bolded question asked by the same pathologist here---> Their(non-physician scientists) expanding role in what has historically been recognized as the practice of medicine has created a conundrum: are non-physicians Scientists truly qualified to advise clinicians, interpret tests in clinical contexts, or recommend testing for specific patients?

The answer to that bolded question will be a RESOUNDING YES in few years to come. The signs are there.

Thank you.

Those links are there for u to tell I that running test in the lab is part of pathologist job description.
And for you to think a physician will preferred the advice of a scientist to those of the laboratory physician can't see that coming
Why is it that medical lab scientist in Nigeria are preventing laboratory physician from doing what is stated in there job description. I gave u three links ,if u are not satisfied add Google and see for your self what a role of laboratory physician is internationally . the link I sent u wasn't 1991 pls, the farthest was updated in 2003 and the other two 2009. The Misbah article u quoted out of context has Neva undermined the role of a laboratory physician pls check this me escape link ,go to page 2 ,click on Box 1
www.medscape.com/viewarticle/803844_2

Box 1. Responsibilities of a laboratory-based physician
Direction of clinical laboratories

Provision of appropriate test repertoire

Clinical liaison and interpretation of results

Attendance at multi-disciplinary meetings

Quality assurance

Assay development and validation

Defining the utility of existing and emerging biomarkers for disease diagnosis/monitoring/prognosis, screening, risk profiling, treatment monitoring and use of targeted therapies

Clinical audit

Demand management

Education and training

Hands on laboratory work (in some disciplines)

Coordinating direct patient care (in some disciplines) with test requesting, interpretation and reporting
Pls wen will Nigerian lab scientist stop preventing laboratory physician from performing their role

That is from your misbah article, u didn't come up with this.

The same article concluded thus

'Irrespective of the wide variations in the practice of LM across Europe, it is our hope that this paper has highlighted the crucial importance of continuing active physician involvement in clinical diagnostic laboratories, particularly given the diverse and competing demands which are increasingly being placed on this group of professionals'

Pls note that no one is takinover anyone's job, but get the fact right, scientist run most test, interprets some. Fina process of interpretation and recommending is for the physician s well as repeat a test or carry it out ab initio wen he deemed it fit, he also run specialized investigation.
U also quoted the link below out of context

www.labsarevital.com/topics/labsarevital/labs-are-vital/2013/09/30/the-role-of-pathologists-in-the-clinical-laboratory

U failed to state that the link concluded as stated below

'With the transformation of the laboratory from a passive service role to an active role in patient diagnosis and management, administrators must not only be able to place themselves in the attending physicians’ shoes, but also understand the technical and economic milieu in which the laboratory operates. Administrators choose the laboratory’s compliment of personnel and must therefore be knowledgeable about the training and skills inherent in the backgrounds of the laboratory staff. The laboratory’s administrative staff is, therefore, central to the overall performance of the laboratory.

As Laposta points out the key is accurate, useful, and timely information provided to those caring directly for patients. In practice, this is often the work product of multiple individuals, each providing data. One must consider, however, that while the synthesis of that data may be left with the direct caregiver, most caregivers prefer more packaged information in the context of their patient’s circumstances. Without medical training and experience in the care of patients, clinical laboratory scientists generally do not have the contextual background to optimally assist the clinician'

YourHealthlabs:


..............................................................................................................................................................................................
Now out of necessity we have this----> The technical supervisor may also be a scientist with a PhD, a Master's, or a bachelor's degree and experience. S/he is responsible for the [b]technical and scientific [/b]oversight of the lab.
source-->http://labtestsonline.org/lab/who/start/1

^^^Now the above is in consonance with our LAWS as encapsulated in the MLSCN federal act

While u rightly stated who a technical supervisor is, u hid d part where they mentioned who a laboratory director should be

Fro same link u quoted : www.labtestsonline.org/lab/who/start/1
I quote below

Laboratory Director
The director of a clinical laboratory is usually a board-certified medical doctor or PhD scientist. He or she must meet the requirements of CLIA, the federal law governing U.S. laboratories, and/or the College of American Pathologists (CAP) or The Joint Commission (TJC) if the lab is to be CAP- or TJC-accredited. Many are pathologists, physicians who specialize in the science of identifying the nature and cause of disease and who are specially trained to interpret biopsy results, Pap smears, and other cytologic samples. If the laboratory director is not a pathologist, a consulting pathologist may be retained to provide services that require their expertise, including interpreting test results. The director is responsible for managing overall operations within the laboratory, including maintaining the standards of agencies that inspect and accredit the lab and ensuring that all technical, clinical, and administrative functions of the lab are performed.

Is is superior to a technical advisor.

sainty2k3:

While u rightly stated who a technical supervisor is, u hid d part where they mentioned who a laboratory director should be

Fro same link u quoted : www.labtestsonline.org/lab/who/start/1
I quote below

Laboratory Director
The director of a clinical laboratory is usually a board-certified medical doctor or PhD scientist.He or she must meet the requirements of CLIA, the federal law governing U.S. laboratories, and/or the College of American Pathologists (CAP) or The Joint Commission (TJC) if the lab is to be CAP- or TJC-accredited. Many are pathologists, physicians who specialize in the science of identifying the nature and cause of disease and who are specially trained to interpret biopsy results, Pap smears, and other cytologic samples. If the laboratory director is not a pathologist, a consulting pathologist may be retained to provide services that require their expertise, including interpreting test results. The director is responsible for managing overall operations within the laboratory, including maintaining the standards of agencies that inspect and accredit the lab and ensuring that all technical, clinical, and administrative functions of the lab are performed.

Is is superior to a technical advisor.

Do you know what PhD scientists means, or you think we don't have them?. Listen sir, i know lots of my colleagues with M.sc, MPH, PhD (one even has a UK PHD in Biomedical Science)who refuse to tender these advanced qualifications during employment screening for fear of not getting jobs as the Administrative boards of our hospitals are filled with 99% physicians(another anomaly JOHESU is also trying to correct) who may feel threatened by their advanced degrees. Everyone knows these things.

We have many of them and they are also asking for the right to head their laboratories as backed by the MLSCN council ACT. Luckily our Scientists are the ones recognized by our laws to head our medical laboratories here as they understand the fundamentals and technicalities of running a laboratory better. That law has not been repealed.Many countries have recognized that too.

sainty2k3:

Those links are there for u to tell I that running test in the lab is part of pathologist job description.
And for you to think a physician will preferred the advice of a scientist to those of the laboratory physician can't see that coming
Why is it that medical lab scientist in Nigeria are preventing laboratory physician from doing what is stated in there job description. I gave u three links ,if u are not satisfied add Google and see for your self what a role of laboratory physician is internationally . the link I sent u wasn't 1991 pls, the farthest was updated in 2003 and the other two 2009. The Misbah article u quoted out of context has Neva undermined the role of a laboratory physician pls check this me escape link ,go to page 2 ,click on Box 1
www.medscape.com/viewarticle/803844_2

Box 1. Responsibilities of a laboratory-based physician
Direction of clinical laboratories

Provision of appropriate test repertoire

Clinical liaison and interpretation of results

Attendance at multi-disciplinary meetings

Quality assurance

Assay development and validation

Defining the utility of existing and emerging biomarkers for disease diagnosis/monitoring/prognosis, screening, risk profiling, treatment monitoring and use of targeted therapies

Clinical audit

Demand management

Education and training

Hands on laboratory work (in some disciplines)

Coordinating direct patient care (in some disciplines) with test requesting, interpretation and reporting
Pls wen will Nigerian lab scientist stop preventing laboratory physician from performing their role

That is from your misbah article, u didn't come up with this.

The same article concluded thus

'Irrespective of the wide variations in the practice of LM across Europe, it is our hope that this paper has highlighted the crucial importance of continuing active physician involvement in clinical diagnostic laboratories, particularly given the diverse and competing demands which are increasingly being placed on this group of professionals'

Pls note that no one is takinover anyone's job, but get the fact right, scientist run most test, interprets some. Fina process of interpretation and recommending is for the physician s well as repeat a test or carry it out ab initio wen he deemed it fit, he also run specialized investigation.
U also quoted the link below out of context

www.labsarevital.com/topics/labsarevital/labs-are-vital/2013/09/30/the-role-of-pathologists-in-the-clinical-laboratory

U failed to state that the link concluded as stated below

'With the transformation of the laboratory from a passive service role to an active role in patient diagnosis and management, administrators must not only be able to place themselves in the attending physicians’ shoes, but also understand the technical and economic milieu in which the laboratory operates. Administrators choose the laboratory’s compliment of personnel and must therefore be knowledgeable about the training and skills inherent in the backgrounds of the laboratory staff. The laboratory’s administrative staff is, therefore, central to the overall performance of the laboratory.

As Laposta points out the key is accurate, useful, and timely information provided to those caring directly for patients. In practice, this is often the work product of multiple individuals, each providing data. One must consider, however, that while the synthesis of that data may be left with the direct caregiver, most caregivers prefer more packaged information in the context of their patient’s circumstances. Without medical training and experience in the care of patients, clinical laboratory scientists generally do not have the contextual background to optimally assist the clinician'

First your medscape link didn't get me where you got your info. maybe you should try a screenshot.

laposta agrees that Scientists may not have the background to have a Scientist-physician clinical interface for now. That's why we have the pathologists. If our Clinical lab Scientists starts doing that, they the paths will have leave our hospitals as they can no longer earn their pay. Scientists are not asking take your clinical jobs. We are only asking to control our labs as those with the fundamental training in it while you do path-physician interface and autopsy as backed by our LAWS.

Meanwhile lab roles continue to evolve. In many states in the US, CLIA-waived labs DO NOT NEED pathologists to function. Many clinical scientists can do clinical interfacing effectively, with obama-care trying to cut medical costs, it is becoming very imperative and less expensive to hire non-physician Scientists for that former path-physician duties of the paths.

rofemiguwa: It is unbeliveable how u people come up with a lie and stick to iT even tiLl death , even when the truth is evident u still stick to ur lie. U wanna swear that it is a doctor that tot u anatomy, pphysiogy, biochemistry, pharmacology. U guys are unbelivable. The only time u encounter ur doctors is when u pass ur part 1 and start clinicals. Stop telling white lies. Up till den. It is the same gross anatomy, neuro anatomy, histology, physiology, biochemistry. that is being tot, it is the same exams given. It is the same steeple chase, the same viva, it is the same cadavar that is being cut. The groups are made up of.
Stop lying to the world. The know the truth. And no the fact u study pharcomolgy one semester doesn't make u know more that someone that studied pharcomolgy for 5 years.the fact u brush through the laB during one semester or u ppass tru radiology during one posting doesn't mean u know jack about this other profession. Stick to medicine it is ur calling pleaseeeeee let others do wat they spent five years pluS oneyr intenship doing.
Let them grow and advance in their field.
I don't see the pharmacist wanting to be a consultant surgeon.
This power tussle is crazy.
Live and let us live biko!

ma'am, i can swear, it's only biochemistry that doctors don't really like and we still had one, and another visiting professor

anatomy, the hod then is a doctor, 5 other doctors, 2 of them left for residency

Physiology, don't even mention it, it's even only the young lecturers that are physiologist, others are medical doctors

Pharmacology, we have 2 medical doctors, 2 pharmacologists, a vet doc

and probably in your own school, they taught medical students together with you guys, but no, in my school, no way, we don't do the same exams

and i've helped a lecturer in marking some anatomy exam scripts for nursing, it's no cheap exam but i go laugh finish the exam ni, cos i still remember the helly questions i did in my part 1 exams

Abeg, isn't that a good percentage

We would never tell you we know more than those guys, but we know as much as to manage our patients, and interested doctors can go for post-graduate in those areas

what other lie then did i put forward

Look, i don't argue blindly, i argue with logic, not what some people are doing somewhere, not being emotional or sympathetic, and not political

I still maintain my stand, the doctor's main claim is that you guys are not being trained to head a hospital

we had a pharmacist, nurses in my class
the pharmacist always tell us the difference between medical school and a pharmacy school

thank you ma

captcochrane:

ma'am, i can swear, it's only biochemistry that doctors don't really like and we still had one, and another visiting professor

anatomy, the hod then is a doctor, 5 other doctors, 2 of them left for residency

Physiology, don't even mention it, it's even only the young lecturers that are physiologist, others are medical doctors

Pharmacology, we have 2 medical doctors, 2 pharmacologists, a vet doc

and probably in your own school, they taught medical students together with you guys, but no, in my school, no way, we don't do the same exams

and i've helped a lecturer in marking some anatomy exam scripts for nursing, it's no cheap exam but i go laugh finish the exam ni, cos i still remember the helly questions i did in my part 1 exams

Abeg, isn't that a good percentage

We would never tell you we know more than those guys, but we know as much as to manage our patients, and interested doctors can go for post-graduate in those areas

what other lie then did i put forward

Look, i don't argue blindly, i argue with logic, not what some people are doing somewhere, not being emotional or sympathetic, and not political

I still maintain my stand, the doctor's main claim is that you guys are not being trained to head a hospital

we had a pharmacist, nurses in my class
the pharmacist always tell us the difference between medical school and a pharmacy school

thank you ma

You are damn right. There are few things a pharmacist knows that a doctor may not know. And that's why the doctor is not a pharmacist and the pharmacist not a doctor.

But what the doctor knows but the pharmacist doesn't know is as wide as the East from the West,.baby. It's more than all the pharmacy the pharmacist knows, darling

skelewu74:

You are damn right. There are few things a pharmacist knows that a doctor may not know. And that's why the doctor is not a pharmacist and the pharmacist not a doctor.

But what the doctor knows but the pharmacist doesn't know is as wide as the East from the West,.baby. It's more than all the pharmacy the pharmacist knows, darling

thank you sir/ma'am, you nailed it

YourHealthlabs:

Do you know what PhD scientists means, or you think we don't have them?. Listen sir, i know lots of my colleagues with M.sc, MPH, PhD (one even has a UK PHD in Biomedical Science)who refuse to tender these advanced qualifications during employment screening for fear of not getting jobs as the Administrative boards of our hospitals are filled with 99% physicians(another anomaly JOHESU is also trying to correct) who may feel threatened by their advanced degrees. Everyone knows these things.

We have many of them and they also asking for the right to head their laboratories as backed by the MLSCN council ACT. Luckily our Scientists are the ones recognized by our laws to head our medical laboratories here as they understand the fundamentals better. That law has not been repealed.Many countries have recognized that too.

Again with ur style of argument, u only pick out half info to proof ur point that is far from truth.
Read the link I quoted,
it affirmed that the lab director should be a laboratory physician or PhD scientist,

it also states that many are pathologist,

it further states that wen a lab physician is not available a consulting lab physician should be employed.
Pls read it well and stop confusing people.
The screen munch is provided below
www.labtestsonline.org/lab/who/start/1

YourHealthlabs:

First your medscape link didn't get me where you got your info. maybe you should try a screenshot.

laposta agrees that Scientists may not have the background to have a Scientist-physician clinical interface for now. That's why we have the pathologists. If our Clinical lab Scientists starts doing that, they the paths will have leave our hospitals as they can no longer earn their pay. Scientists are not asking take your clinical jobs. We are only asking to control our labs as those with the fundamental training in it while you do path-physician interface and autopsy as backed by our LAWS

Meanwhile lab roles continue to evolve. In many states in the US, CLIA-waived labs DO NOT NEED pathologists to function. Many clinical scientists can do clinical interfacing effectively, with obama-care trying to cut medical costs, it is becoming very imperative and less expensive to hire non-physician Scientists for that former path-physician duties of the paths.

Despite the link u still ended up misqouting it

1. U added the 'for now'
2. Our laws also backed that laboratory physician should play their role
I know u saw the link and u ignored it but I'll send u a screen shot

If u click on this link www.medscape.com/viewarticle/803844_2 and click on box 1 U'll find the pictures below

Is is what is applicable international standard role for laboratory physician

dumodust:
it is you that did not state your facts well, reading your previous post, you painted them like clueless, like if they didnt search. That is why doctors work in groups in teaching hospitals so that they can put heards together, nothing prevents doctors from referring to better specialists when the cause beats them. Sometimes the cause is never ever found and it is termed idiopathic.
myalgia (muscle pain) can result from a lot of things, even malaria can cause localised muscle ache. Alcoholism also leads to a lot of things... the guy probably had a prolonged hangover

You go to a doctor, he tests u and then treats you for an ailment which you don't have, if that dr is not clueless I wonder what he is. No referrals were made by any of the first two doctors, they claimed to have gotten a spot-on diagnosis. None of them are teaching hospitals so doctors don't work in teams there. I know what I said, and you are the one misinterpreting what I am saying. He didn't have a prolonged hang-over except hang-overs now lasts for 3 weeks.

elohorayodele:

You go to a doctor, he tests u and then treats you for an ailment which you don't have, if that dr is not clueless I wonder what he is. No referrals were made by any of the first two doctors, they claimed to have gotten a spot-on diagnosis. None of them are teaching hospitals so doctors don't work in teams there. I know what I said, and you are the one misinterpreting what I am saying. He didn't have a prolonged hang-over except hang-overs now lasts for 3 weeks.

i also did not mean that he had a prolonged hangover, didnt you notice the grin at the end of the statement ... it was a joke because i wondered why that kind of pain could be related to an alcohol binge then last 2 weeks. if he has hypocalcaemia, they should search or another plausible cause... the funny thing is that anyone of them could have been right
and what do you mean by 'treat you for what you dont have'?you said the doctors asked questions, tested for shoulder painetc... did they try to address any other thing than the pain like his penis or breasts? they were looking for answers depending on what the patient told them and what they found, their suspicions were in order and they had their reasons, that does not make them bad doctors. i still insist that they may have been right, besides finding hypocalcaemia is not the end, just blaming alcohol is lame without any further evaluation in a grown man. even kidney issues can cause hypocalcaemia. what if it is bone pain from secondary hyperparathyroidism? things that cause secondary hyperparathyroidism can demineralise bones(by mobilsing calcium to replace low blood level). calcium supplements and painkillers may briefly help,.... i'm was just saying your friend should probe further because i dont really buy this alcohol thing...peace

elohorayodele:

You go to a doctor, he tests u and then treats you for an ailment which you don't have, if that dr is not clueless I wonder what he is. No referrals were made by any of the first two doctors, they claimed to have gotten a spot-on diagnosis. None of them are teaching hospitals so doctors don't work in teams there. I know what I said, and you are the one misinterpreting what I am saying. He didn't have a prolonged hang-over except hang-overs now lasts for 3 weeks.

I feel sorry to hear of your experience in the hand of that doctor. Some doctors are like that. There are bad eggs in Every profession. And we are striving to purge them out. But I want to assure you that many are brilliant doctors out there.

problem is many Nigerians don't visit them because they fear their charges may be high. They instead patronise to see quacks or places where they will be charges 50 naira for consultation. And you know what follows from there!

this is not to suggest that that doctor is a quack. I do not know the details of your case.

uyplus:

Please tell me Pharmacist don't know anything too. That we Just dispense the drugs according to da docs prescription plan.. Loool.. glad Pharmacy has got a faculty of it's own and not under the Medical sciences.

My friend did his internship at LUTH and der was this incidence he gisted me about. A prescription came in for him to attend. It was written by a 'consultant' and when he was done screening the prescription, he noticed grave therapeutics errors. He then sent a stapled note back to the doc to review the prescription..and ds doc who claims to be all knowing sent the patient back and told him that if the pharmacist refuses to dispense the drugs, he should tell him. My friend just did the simplest thing. Went up to the consultant office, the consultant was so arrogant because he had Hs fellow consultants all sitted there. He just told the consultant, pleases counter sign this prescription and I will dispense it as soon as I leave your office. Guess what, the consultant never did and evn askd him what was wrong and he should suggest what changes needs to be made.

Now that is the attitude of an average doc. Do they evn know drugs? How many docs can convert international units to million units? And dey wear ward coat parading everywhere. Soon they will say only docs shd wear ward coats in the hospital. Who are they to say no other profession shd be called consultants and 'dr'. Bunch of eediots!!

A consultant prescribed salbutamol tablets for my friend who went to him to complain of P.I.D. I was in awe of him, so to speak, when she showed me the prescription.

provenus:

A consultant prescribed salbutamol tablets for my friend who went to him to complain of P.I.D. I was in awe of him, so to speak, when she showed me the prescription.

listen to yourself... P.I.D z not even a complain... a patient coming to complain for P.I.D ..P.I.D z a diagnosis and not a complaints.. peddling lies to make make urself feel good.... y d whining... Oga jona don do in own, make una go consult now.... ignoramus

sexyexcalibur:
listen to yourself... P.I.D z not even a complain... a patient coming to complain for P.I.D ..P.I.D z a diagnosis and not a complaints.. peddling lies to make make urself feel good.... y d whining... Oga jona don do in own, make una go consult now.... ignoramus

dont mind them... PID is now a complaint...lol
Salbutamol inhibits uterine contractions/spasms and is used to inhibit labour preterm so obviously the PID was probably a cover for something else

skelewu74:





The O.D (doctor of optometry ) guy is a university made doctor that isn't a doctor. In the same US, there are Doctors of Nursing; but they are nurses, and it's illegal for them to hold themselves forth as medically competent.

And M.Ds are not university made doctors? Maybe u are made by the road side.Optometry in that usa is a 4yr post-graduate program just like Medicine.In the end all your high fallutin claim to the title doctor is because you can diagnose and treat independently...so can an Optometrist. An Optometrist is more than medically competent to handle any ocular condition within his jurisdiction independently.In that United States Optometrists perform surgery.What is illegal is quack general practitioners who know nothing about eye care dabbling into ophthalmic services.What is illegal is nitwits coming to a social media to spread falsehood.AN OPTOMETRIST IS AN EYE DOCTOR. The Optometrist "doctors".He diagnoses and treats both with drugs and non-drug agents.He rehabilitates, refracts and refers when necessary,co-manages and counsels when needed.And all these is done independently. He doesnt need any input from any medical doctor.He can be sued for misdiagnosis and mistakes in his capacity as a doctor.The Optometrist is more medically competent than any medical doctor to handle any ocular condition with the exception of the ophthalmologist.So in the field of eye care all other mbbs holders are not doctors since they are medically incompetent following ur analogy.Or can you yourself "doctor" in the field of Eyecare and Vision care?
If you dont know who an optometrist is ask around.