The attention of Joint Health Sector Unions (JOHESU) has been drawn to the publication (Advertorial) by the Nigeria Association of Resident Doctors (NARD) the Nigerian Medical Association (NMA) in various newspapers including social media from the 9th of April to 30th of May, 2014.
Whereas the Publications would have been ignored for obvious lack of credence and immaturity aptly demonstrated by the NMA and its appendages, on a second thought, the leadership of JOHESU, considered the inherent danger such malice, misinformation, such publications if not corrected, could impact on the uninformed public and resolved to respond, if only to refute the unguarded and unprofessional utterances of the groups, not to mention the level of absurdity the issues raised epitomize, which further stretched the incredibility to an agonizing crescendo.
The issues taken point to point with rebuttal, are as follows:
1. Threat of Nation-wide Strike and the Chibok Girls
NMA and its groups would be shocked to hear that JOHESU shelved its strike slated for Monday 19th May 2014 because of its sympathy with the Government and the people of this great country over the tragedy that befell the Nation. Again, the leadership of JOHESU offered special prayers at various times and in particular at its meeting with the Government on the 13th May, 2014 over Nyanya Bomb blast and the abducted Chibok girls.
That would not be said of NMA and its affiliates. In spite of the fact that the Nation was thrown into mourning and sadness, the NARD (at that student doctors) in full blast embarked on a 3 day Nation-wide warning strike, a situation widely reported on the electronic and print media with such condemnation. The strike was yet another opportunity for striking doctors to divert patients in public facilities to their private facilities. What could be so callous and insensitive than this!
 
2. Attack on NLC & TUC
NMA attacked the NLC and TUC for supporting JOHESU in its endeavour to improve on the poor state of the Nation’s health sector being mismanaged by the Medical doctors, is baseless and a clear demonstration of NMA’s attempt to cover up the rot in the sector which is the result of years of mis-management of the health sector by Nigerian doctors who were in charge.
Both Labour Centres, NLC and TUC, have as affiliates all the five member-unions of JOHESU, all of them registered by the Trade union Acts and the extant laws. NMA and its groups are not registered trade unions, yet are known to engage in trade union activities, by negotiating conditions of service and most often incite the government against the rest of the other health practitioners given their privileged leadership position in the sector. This is contrary to the NIC judgment of 20th June, 2011, in a case of Hon. Attorney General of Enugu State VS National Association of Medical & Dental Practitioners (NAGGMAP), in which NICN ruled “that the right to strike is a right that belongs to a trade union” meaning that NMA and its group, legally lack this right, to embark on or negotiate conditions of service and even enter into collective bargaining with its employers. In other words, NMA has used blackmail to coerce and intimidate the government to enter into agreement, all of which ordinarily are illegal. As the saying goes, two wrongs cannot make a right, therefore we say enough is enough.
Most JOHESU cases went through NIC and were favourably disposed in the JOHESU favour. NMA cases should equally be subjected to judicial process as in that of Enugu NIC in 2011. The Federal Ministry of Health is enjoined to stop playing double standards with personnel issues in the health sector.
 
3. Crisis in the Health Sector - is it Political?
Perhaps, NMA and its appendages need to inform the ordinary citizen of this country properly on this issue. Since the days of Professor Olikoye Ransome Kuti, a onetime Minister of Health, who awarded the Medical Doctors Super Salary of MSS/MSSS and the others in the health sector, HSS in 1991, thereby removing the single spine salary structure, undermining the issue of salary relativity/parity, thus creating a huge gap differential that has remained unjustifiable till date, crisis has become an integral part of the health sector. Again, in 2009, CONMESS was given doctors, which further expanded the salary band from 1 – 7 at entry point of GL.13 for a newly qualified doctor! Besides this, the entire health structure came under the headship of the Medical Doctors, thereby giving them privileged positions that the Job Evaluation conducted and supervised by the office of the Secretary to the Government of the Federation, with Head of Service of the Federation, Federal Ministry of Labour and Productivity, Federal Ministry of Health, National Salaries, Income and Wages Commission etc as members in 2007 could still not justify. In fact, the Medical Doctors apart from the consultants in Nigeria were rated slightly below most health professionals including medical lab scientists and physiotherapists, what then forms the basis for such leverages and largesse being given the Medical Doctors, if not corruption and injustice in the sector? How could NMA justify its press release urging the Federal Government not to succumb to JOHESU ‘cheap blackmail’ and her allies by granting to JOHESU requests that undermine the interest of the Nigerian Doctors”, if not the usual political maneuvering that has characterized the Medical doctors mismanagement concept in the health sector over the years.
 
4. Issue of skipping of CONHESS 10 is simple.
No civil servant progresses from GL 10 to 11; rather the structure is GL 10 to 12. Why should the Medical doctors compel other health professionals to embrace movement from GL 10 to 11 when the entry point is GL 13 for doctors? That NIC judgment favoured JOHESU shows the legality of JOHESU demands. No more no less.
WWW.MEDICALWORLDNIGERIA.COM
5. Issue of Relativity
A young graduate of Medicine on internship is placed on GL 10 and on post NYSC placed on GL 13. Other Health professionals on internship start on GL 09; and a post NYSC status of GL 10. The demand for something higher by doctors is therefore not acceptable. A doctor who starts on GL 13 after youth service already has an edge that cannot be covered over a 10-year period by other health workers. What other relativity are we talking about in terms of a benefit package?
Again, while the Medical Doctors within a span of 6 – 8 years rise to the post of Medical Director, the other health professionals spend years on progression, often stagnating and generally are denied such privileges by the Medical doctors. Medical doctors are known to threaten the government with strike should their professional counterpart in the health sector insist on rising to post of Directorship in various health departments, units, Health Management Boards, Tertiary Health Institutions etc. This is a misnomer because Public Service Rules and the relevant schemes of service permit all university graduates to rise to the apex level of director in the civil service.
 
6. Termination of appointments of other health professionals as consultants.
Contrary to the practice worldwide, the Hon. Minister of Health in December, 2010, acting in concert with the NMA, terminated the appointments of renowned Health Professionals, some of whom are professors in specialized field of Health as consultants. This led to a fierce legal battle which eventually led to NICN ruling in favour of JOHESU, thereby stopping the reign of impunity medical doctors have imposed on the other health professionals for several years, especially since the emergence of the incumbent Minister of Health.
What remains now is whether other health professionals would emerge as heads of their own units, departments or as Chief Executive Officers of Tertiary Health Institutions as is the norm all over the world and previously the practice when the Healthcare sector in Nigeria was the envy of other nations. It is important to put on record that this was the practice before Olikoye Kuti instigated the obnoxious Decree 10 of 1985 under military watch. It is evidence based that since the medical doctors took over the running of the healthcare institutions, the entire sector has been ruined to the extent that Nigeria now tops the list in medical tourism and capital flight as a result of healthcare expenditures.
 
7. Controversies surrounding the various categories of Medical Practitioners in the teaching hospitals.
NMA has refused to call a spade a spade. The appointments of more Honourary Consultants who are staff of Universities Instead of permanent Hospital Consultants leaves a huge drain on the purse of the Hospitals particularly because this investment on Hon. Consultants is unjustifiable as majority of them refuse to be impactful, because they simply don’t work in the teaching hospitals where they are paid.
Equally is the filling up of the hospitals with resident doctors whose interests border more on passing their exams than caring for the patients. Since these are postgraduate medical practitioners, training to become consultants, they should conform with the rules applicable to those of other health professionals in their category.
The NMA has no justifiable claim of legitimacy to the leadership of the hospitals as the hospitals have become celebrated cases of failure, dysfunction and inefficient institutions where existing infrastructures were last upgraded when health administrators were in charge in the early 80s. The series of Press Releases, and threats of strikes are actions necessary to keep the medical doctors relevant in the Public arena; but the media focus should not intimidate the public. Fact is doctors reap a windfall during strikes because government pays them for jobs not done and they divert patients in guaranteed public facilities to their private hospitals in a process of unprecedented profiteering. WWW.MEDICALWORLDNIGERIA.COM
 
Conclusion:
Finally, JOHESU admonishes government to seize this opportunity of another doctors strike to show government can be government by not succumbing to propaganda in the media. Government must treat this as an unlawful strike because NMA, MDCAN & NARD are not trade unions and therefore logically cannot negotiate trade disputes with government for any reason. As vital stake holders we assure government and consumers of health that we shall do our part to legally redress the many aberrations of Nigerian doctors.
 
JOHESU also calls on all health professionals in its fold in both the public and private sector to continue to render service within their competence and skills to ameliorate the conditions of patients who seek care in the weeks ahead.
Source
http://www.medicalworldnigeria.com/2014/07/johesu-press-release-on-the-nma-strike-and-the-imminent-crisis-in-the-health-sector#.U7P_yGpMVxs

This is getting too much. These
doctors have turned our hospitals
into death traps by their refusal to
humble themselves and recognize
and appreciate the expertise of
other healthcare professionals and the roles they play in healthcare delivery. One of their grouses, I've learnt, is about the recent go ahead the FG and National Assembly have given, which allows Pharmacists, Nurses, Physiotherapists, Medical Laboratory Scientists, and Radiographers who have reached a certain professional level in their respective fields to be appointed consultants in those fields.
This is so selfish of the doctors and
born out of envy. The doctors cannot bring themselves to see someone else being called Consultant. This is similar to professors of Engineering
proceeding on Strike because a
Senior Lecturer of Law is to be
appointed as professor of Law, NOT ENGINEERING. Imagine the
disconnect! Doctors should put aside this arrogance of theirs and emulate their peers in civilized climes who see healthcare delivery as teamwork,
not a one-man show to the
detriment of the patient. Without
proper care by way of nursing,
perform all the surgery you can conceive of, the patient will still die. Need I say that medicine is like a container and drugs the content? Pour out the
content and the container is useless! Perform all the surgery and reach every diagnoses, but withhold the drugs or administer them inappropriately, and the patient will still die or be permanently handicapped. No wonder we have so many drug related deaths (courtesy doctors who refuse to see and appreciate the importance of other healthcare professionals). In fact, in some states in the US, the doctor is not allowed to unanimously write prescriptions; either a clinical pharmacist or clinical pharmacologist must be there to guide the physician. This guys use complex pharmacokinetic equations to predict blood levels of potentially toxic drugs; thereby, avoiding medication-related problems and ensuring safety and efficacy, for the overall good of the patient. This is a sane society where human lives a placed above narrow ambitions and envy.
Need I also say that for confirmatory diagnosis to be made, Laboratory or Radiographic results are needed, which falls into the jurisdiction of Med. Lab. Scientists and Radiographers. Many deaths would have been avoided if some of this doctors ever bothered to confirm their preliminary or tentative diagnosis by ordering for laboratory tests. Yet you see them covering up
these avoidable deaths with medical jargons. Some of these doctors are very corrupt, but it is we the masses that suffer at the end of the day.
Doctors are truly a blessing to
humanity, but, like everything in
Nigeria, it is being taken over by
some charlatans. No one forced
anyone to study any course,
including medicine; so they should
not bother us with all these
shenanigans of theirs. In fact, they
are currently among the highest
earning government workers.

hmmmm....d battle jst started getting interesting. lets see how this ends. team #bring-back-the-old-system in d health sector

humnsikan: This is getting too much. These
doctors have turned our hospitals
into death traps by their refusal to
humble themselves and recognize
and appreciate the expertise of
other healthcare professionals and the roles they play in healthcare delivery. One of their grouses, I've learnt, is about the recent go ahead the FG and National Assembly have given, which allows Pharmacists, Nurses, Physiotherapists, Medical Laboratory Scientists, and Radiographers who have reached a certain professional level in their respective fields to be appointed consultants in those fields.
This is so selfish of the doctors and
born out of envy. The doctors cannot bring themselves to see someone else being called Consultant. This is similar to professors of Engineering
proceeding on Strike because a
Senior Lecturer of Law is to be
appointed as professor of Law, NOT ENGINEERING. Imagine the
disconnect! Doctors should put aside this arrogance of theirs and emulate their peers in civilized climes who see healthcare delivery as teamwork,
not a one-man show to the
detriment of the patient. Without
proper care by way of nursing,
perform all the surgery you can conceive of, the patient will still die. Need I say that medicine is like a container and drugs the content? Pour out the
content and the container is useless! Perform all the surgery and reach every diagnoses, but withhold the drugs or administer them inappropriately, and the patient will still die or be permanently handicapped. No wonder we have so many drug related deaths (courtesy doctors who refuse to see and appreciate the importance of other healthcare professionals). In fact, in some states in the US, the doctor is not allowed to unanimously write prescriptions; either a clinical pharmacist or clinical pharmacologist must be there to guide the physician. This guys use complex pharmacokinetic equations to predict blood levels of potentially toxic drugs; thereby, avoiding medication-related problems and ensuring safety and efficacy, for the overall good of the patient. This is a sane society where human lives a placed above narrow ambitions and envy.
Need I also say that for confirmatory diagnosis to be made, Laboratory or Radiographic results are needed, which falls into the jurisdiction of Med. Lab. Scientists and Radiographers. Many deaths would have been avoided if some of this doctors ever bothered to confirm their preliminary or tentative diagnosis by ordering for laboratory tests. Yet you see them covering up
these avoidable deaths with medical jargons. Some of these doctors are very corrupt, but it is we the masses that suffer at the end of the day.
Doctors are truly a blessing to
humanity, but, like everything in
Nigeria, it is being taken over by
some charlatans. No one forced
anyone to study any course,
including medicine; so they should
not bother us with all these
shenanigans of theirs. In fact, they
are currently among the highest
earning government workers.

@ the bolded. i hope you know that radiographers are the ones who 'photograph' the patients.the radiologists who are the doctors in that department interprete the results..
in the labs ,the lab technologists do the bench work or test the samples.the onus still lies on the pathologist who is a doctor to ratify the results.
my brother these allied professionals are attaching undue importance to themselves.they are not that important.

phantomm: @ the bolded. i hope you know that radiographers are the ones who 'photograph' the patients.the radiologists who are the doctors in that department interprete the results..
in the labs ,the lab technologists do the bench work or test the samples.the onus still lies on the pathologist who is a doctor to ratify the results.
my brother these allied professionals are attaching undue importance to themselves.they are not that important.

If the pathologists and radiologist are that all-rounded, they should obtain the samples and analyse same, strictly adhering to standard procedures, and I bet they'd start crying. Look here, we the masses have tolerated these doctors enough.

I still do not understand where Nigerian doctors got this mentality from. They are totally not in tune with international best practices in healthcare. They are yet to see that healthcare delivery is a team work and the patient the focus of the team, hence, their constant resistance to the progress of members of the team, which is to the detriment of the patient.

Let me ask you: can you mention just one treatment or preventive procedure in the hospital that does not utilize a product of a pharmacueutical company before, during or after such procedure? Who the hell are you to say that the role of experts in such products, i.e, pharmacists, is unimportant, when you and I know that everything in the hospital, at the end of the day, boils down to drips, disinfectants, medications, etc? Why do you say that nurses are not an integral part of the healthcare delivery and that their role is equally unimportant? I feel the doctors are afraid that with recent developments in the healthcare sector, which they have, till now, been running as their personal property, some of their fraudulent activities would not easily be covered up. So pls, next time, think with your cerebral cortex and not limbic system (At least I know some elementary medical terminologies, Lol).

Front page pls

Front page pls

I pass

ok

GOOD MORNING!!

still waitn for the day the Nigeria Army will go on strike

In this issue I pity the common Nigerian folk who don't seem to know the difference between a trained medical doctor and a lab technician/Radiographer/physiotherapist/nurse/hospital clerk or porter or admin staff/pharmacist....afterall we are in a society where everyone is referred to as Dr or nurse irrespective of their qualification..that is the only reason why these issues arise.there is no clear job description or professionalism in performance of duties..the federal government is too weak and corrupt to handle this issue firmly.in a private setting this will not even be an issue for discussion because in a private setting it is clearly stated what your job/role in healthcare delivery is..smh

na wa for here

hmn

Lemme begin wt a question dt usually amazes me?
Why on earth will ALL health workers including even cleaners, messangers, record officers etc excluding only d medical dcotors come together to form a union, JOHESU?
What are d aims nd objectives of d union?
Saying d lab scientists nd radiographers carry out d investigations is not wholly true for there re medical doctors in all aspects of medicine be it d lab, radiology etc even pharmacology dt re specializing there, even the HODs of these lab departments viz chemical pathology, hematology, microbiology, radiology re usually consultant doctors ie experts in these fields.

These doctors already earn big nau. I really feel for other health workers.

alotofgrace: GOOD MORNING!!

still waitn for the day the Nigeria Army will go on strike

and the police

Hmmmm,

Still waiting for when NASU and other admin staff of Nigerian universities will come up to say they want to start becoming Professors so that they can become VC and DVC. Surely if Johesu scales through, NASU will follow suite.

Gobe go come start Part 2

phantomm: @ the bolded. i hope you know that radiographers are the ones who 'photograph' the patients.the radiologists who are the doctors in that department interprete the results..
in the labs ,the lab technologists do the bench work or test the samples.the onus still lies on the pathologist who is a doctor to ratify the results.
my brother these allied professionals are attaching undue importance to themselves.they are not that important.

Tell this to "graduates" who do not know their rights from wrongs

For some of us who are highly learned we understand the entire process

By the way, why do you keep 'shouting' pathologists? How many Nigerian hospitals employ pathologists?

Can a pathologist function without those you condemn so much?
Lol

This aint the issue anyway, why should you and your allied block the progress of others? Insecurity? lol

Most Public offices and Ministries are headed by BSc/MSc holders (i.e Bachelors & Masters). abi una carry wetin pass bachelors?

Why do you keep giving the public wrong impression about Lab guys? Haven't you seen Lab scientist and even technologists with Masters degrees, PhDs?

You think every other person on Lab coat (who isn't a medic) schooled in Health Tech?


Our President is truly weak; people like you should be out of the hospital...

Enough of all these rantings, JOHESU if u re so sure of ursef nd d relevance of ur discipline, advocate for d privatization of the entire health sector.
Let everything be privatized nd everybody in d health sector knows where he/she belongs..

Cacophony of lies from johesu again. All medical doctors start from grade level 10 after housemanship and not 13. They are just trying mess doctors up.
Waiting for when NASU will demand to be VC of Universities, make i see whether ASUU go gree.

I'm a final year physiotherapist in the college of medicine university of lagos.. I stay in a room with 4 mbbs final year students amd I must say.. The bias to the oda sectors even @ an undergraduate level is too much. This goes to show that d level of moral decadence, prejudice and pride in these doctors is too much.. To get total and optimum medical care, u nid all aspects of the health team to contribute immensely and efficiently for d best medical performance. Imagine a stdt here telling us that they shud b given 2 man rooms dat d rest should go and look for somewhere else here.. Its outrageous.from d onset, dey believe dat dey are better and as such, prejudiced to ALWAYS be in top consideration for any form of medical consideration for profit only.. Der are physios who finished skuling before some consultants bought jamb form... There was even a day I was writing my clinical exam and I had my steth on and a.Dr friend was like 'dude go and pull dat steth jor and stop decieving people dat u r a doctor' I was like wtf? D steth is to check oscultations of d heart and not a title landmark for a Drs decoration. Enlightment is d key. They should go out.. See d way things are done outside and emulate d peace, serenity and cohesion dat exists between us as medical practitioners.. Its not our fault dat we are called doctors by d public. And very soon by the grace of God, wen the Doctors of physio,pharmacy bill are passed, and wen now started running d same 6 year parole wit dem, ehen dey will calm down.. But please let's strike for important tins.. Dis is a form of racism we so madly hate. Nobody likes to be trampled upon. So I dnt blame johesu. Make ur demands and don't counter anova person's own I'm not on anybody's side tho. I just feel I shud say dis...heck I even have an exam now sef....LONG LIVE. JOHESU!!! LONG LIVE NMA!!!! More patients, more money, more peace and prosperity... #united nigeria...


Dr.pfijacobs

heykims: Lemme begin wt a question dt usually amazes me?
Why on earth will ALL health workers including even cleaners, messangers, record officers etc excluding only d medical dcotors come together to form a union, JOHESU?
What are d aims nd objectives of d union?
Saying d lab scientists nd radiographers carry out d investigations is not wholly true for there re medical doctors in all aspects of medicine be it d lab, radiology etc even pharmacology dt re specializing there, even the HODs of these lab departments viz chemical pathology, hematology, microbiology, radiology re usually consultant doctors ie experts in these fields.

and Pharmacy, right?

Why are you all scared about the PharmD (Doctor of Pharmacy) movement?

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_pharmacy

Read this and help yourself.. Typing from Nigerian hospital ward won't help
Lets get knowledge and stop disgracing Nigeria/Nigerians

Meanwhile, there are Lab Scientists and Biomedics with MSc/PhDs; so how do we solve this conflict?

dionysius: Cacophony of lies from johesu again. All medical doctors start from grade level 10 after housemanship and not 13. They are just trying mess doctors up.
Waiting for when NASU will demand to be VC of Universities, make i see whether ASUU go gree.

Who be dis fool? Comparing johesu to nasu? U dey madt? Check ur hierarchy wella men in d faculty of medicine, there is medicine as a dpt, physiotherapy, dentistry, and so on so why d stewpid analogy? U just hatin and dey aint ranting! Jusy forget it... Ur pharoahtic monopoly is over... In luth here a microbiologist is d provost so get ur info ryt... Re.tarded ass.hole

In Summary,

(1) FG should not appoint non-doctors as chief medical director.
Is this not selfishness ? Is it only doctors that work in the hospital? why will they go on strike for this selfish
reason and suffer patients ?
(2) Only doctors should be made consultants-
other workers who work in the hospital no matter their qualification should not be made a consultant?
-Is this not the height of wickedness and selfishness by doctors?
So if a staff of the hospital have Ph.D, he should not be a consultant when their mates working at other places are consultants ?
(3)Only doctors should be made directors---
Ladies and gentlemen, the law says anyone on level 15 is a director in the civil service--- so why will doctors say that only them should be made directors and other workers who
rise to level 15 should not be made a
directors ?
(4)Level skipping---they want doctors to also skip levels like other- now these bunch of murderers called doctors wants to enjoy wђã†̥ others are enjoying but they dont want
others to enjoy what they are enjoying----
it is based on these reasons & more that they went on strike-----
Check out more here:

www.nairaland.com/1795086/nma-strike-doctors-wicked-must

phantomm: @ the bolded. i hope you know that radiographers are the ones who 'photograph' the patients.the radiologists who are the doctors in that department interprete the results..
in the labs ,the lab technologists do the bench work or test the samples.the onus still lies on the pathologist who is a doctor to ratify the results.
my brother these allied professionals are attaching undue importance to themselves.they are not that important.

Radiographers interprete xrays and d lab scientists interprete their reports. The doctors want to keep on heading the departments to feel relevant in every sector.

dionysius: Cacophony of lies from johesu again. All medical doctors start from grade level 10 after housemanship and not 13. They are just trying mess doctors up.
Waiting for when NASU will demand to be VC of Universities, make i see whether ASUU go gree.

Did you read the write-up?

It takes over 10yrs to rise from 10 to 13. Doctors skip 11, 12, and their demand is that other health workers with degrees must pass through 11, 12...

Who does that?

so many things are wrong

it's unfortunate that the artisans called JOHESU are now asking for a glass of milk after receiving cookies from NMA. These are people that were trained by doctors ab initio. They-JOHESU-have hardly done anything to further their intellect or improve their grey mater. Not forgetting the illegal health 'bukkas' they run in the communities as hospitals lending an easy access to death of our people. I think the lab rats should focus on collecting samples and running their tests as required by their training. My opinion about nurses is that any nurse without a degree should not be allowed to practice in a government hospital. At this point we are, school of nursing should be banned. When we start having graduates as nurses, they will understand the extant rules guiding their employment and their limitations. The pharmacists disappoint me. Theirs is supposed to be a revered profession but alas they have been caught up with the mess called JOHESU. They are no longer interested in research, neither are they interested in formulating drugs. I dont have a word for the porters and cleaners because they are unskilled workers. The day patients will start asking for the above mentioned individuals, rather than doctors when they visit the hospitals, then let the FG grant them their heart desire.

dionysius: Cacophony of lies from johesu again. All medical doctors start from grade level 10 after housemanship and not 13. They are just trying mess doctors up.
Waiting for when NASU will demand to be VC of Universities, make i see whether ASUU go gree.

You are an illiterate.

A University Bursar/Accountant, Reigistrar and Librarian all belong to NASU.
They are bosses in their fields already..

Lol, like an average "literate" Nigerian who thinks NASU is all about gate keepers, carpenters etc

I swear all una never sick, na why u dey run mouth. If you wife wan born, carry am go lap radiology, physiotherapy or wetin u call am. All you hypocrites. If all johesu drop there work, doctors will do them, can they do doctors job. A doctor would hav done a posting in all those johesu fields as student too. they are working, respect. But the doctor and sirgeon are the most important experts in patient care. If you wana be like a doctor too, go take a jamb form and see that medical school no be beans

so many things are wrong