CLAIM
Muslim narrated that a man said: “O Messenger of Allaah, where is my father?’ He said: “In Hell.” When the man turned away, he called him back and said: “My father and your father are in Hell.”

With regard to his mother he (saws) was reported to have said: “I asked my Lord for permission to pray for forgiveness for my mother, and He did not give me permission. I asked him for permission to visit her grave, and He gave me permission.” Narrated by Muslim,976.

HOW TRUE ARE THESE NARATION

First, the only authentic book in Islam is al-Quran. Any other book is prone to error. The fact that books of hadith were compiled centuries after the prophet, all scholars agreed there are fabricated hadith here and there in various book. It is therefore, ignorance or fanaticism to assume that Sahih Muslim or Bukhari (or any other collection whatsoever) is 100% Sahih (authentic).

Second, Scholars have devised different formulas to recognize authentic hadith (reported saying of the prophet). To some, Hadith is accepted on the basis of both Fann-i-Riwaayat (chain of transmission) and Fann-i-Daraayat (authenticity of subject-matter).

Generally, a Hadith (reported saying of prophet) can be regarded as a source of religious guidance only 'if the basis of that Hadith exists in the Quran or sunnah and does not contradict it

NB: Sunnah are those established customs of the Prophet (saws) that were passed on as religion to the Muslim Ummah.

HOW THESE HADITH CONTRADICT QUR'AN
Allah says:

First Ayah
"Allah chose Adam, Nuh (Noah), the family of Ibrahim and the family of 'Imran above the 'Alamin (mankind).

Offspring, one of the other, and Allah is the All-Hearer, All-Knower."
~al-Imran:33-34

Second Ayah
"And your turning over and over from among those who prostrate themselves (to the Lord)"

EMPHASIS
In the first Ayah, the concern here is divine selection of 'Aali ibrahim' (family, posterity of Ibrahim). Allah also selected and made Ibrahim (as) and his progeny or posterity (dhu'riyah) as Leader over mankind except the zalimun (wrong or evil doers) from among them.

It is an established fact that the direct lineage of Muhammad (saws) from his father, Abdullah and mother, Amina to Abdul-Muttalib(grandfather) were posterity of Ibrahim through Ismail (as).

They were chosen lineage and leader (Imam). So how can Muhammad's father, mother and grandfather be Kafir?

In the second Ayah, the emphasis is on "taqalubuka(Your turning over and over or movement from one to other)". In this ayah, Imam Ahmad Ibn Muhammad al-Thalabi (d.427), a great Sunni Imam, in his Tafsir Thalabi (Al-Kashf wa-l-bayān an tafsīr al-Qurān) and Sulayman Balkhi Hanafi in his "Yanabiul-Mawadda, vol. II reported from Abdullah Ibn Abbas from the prophet (saws):

"Allah sent me to the earth in the loins of Adam and transferred me to the loins of Ibrahim. He continued transferring me from the distinguished and exalted loins to pure wombs until He created me from my father and mother, who never met unlawfully"

The underline statement prove that none of his forefather was an infidel, for Allah says:
"...Verily the Mushrikun (polytheist, idolators etc) are Najasun (impure, polluted ones)"~al-Tawbah:28

WAS PROPHET IBRAHIM'S FATHER A KAFIR?
Qur'an says:
"And when Ibrahim said to his father, Azar: 'Do you take idols for god? Surely I see you and your people in manifest error"

Many scholars of Genealogy agreed that Ibrahim's father was Tarukh, not Azar.

There are two views about Azar. One is that he was Ibrahim's uncle and second is that in addition to being his uncle, after the death of Ibrahim's father, Tarukh, he took over the (father's) responsibility of Ibrahim (as) and his mother. Hence, according to general custom, Ibrahim and the community used to address him as Ibrahim's father.

A SIMILAR PROVE FROM THE QUR'AN

Allah says concerning Yaqub (as):
"Or were you witnesses when death approached Ya'qub? When he said unto his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We shall worship your God, the God of your fathers, Ibrahim, Isma'il, Ishaq, One God, and to Him we submit."~al-Baqarah:133

It is an established fact that Yaqub's father was Ishaq (Isaac) and not Ismail who was his uncle, but according to the general custom, he used to call him his father.

Imam Ali (as) reported to have said concerning the prophets of God, in sermon 105 of Nahj al-Balagha:

"Allah provided for them (i.e the prophets) the best place (the loins of their forefathers) and gave them the best placements (wombs of their mother). He transferred them from distinguished and respectable loins to pure wombs..."

Wa Salam Alaykum

That's the problem with interpretation of all these books (Quran and Bible) into English sometimes the meaning is lost. I guess Hell in this sense does not mean "Hellfire". It only implies the grave or a state of permanent rest. This shouldn't be misinterpreted. Just my own submission sha!

funshint: That's the problem with interpretation of all these books (Quran and Bible) into English sometimes the meaning is lost. I guess Hell in this sense does not mean "Hellfire". It only implies the grave or a state of permanent rest. This shouldn't be misinterpreted. Just my own submission sha!

Hell is Hell fire....always

Al-baqir, do you seriously think it needed to dabble into these discussions. am beginning to be afraid for you. These are delicate matters regarding which one MUST not make mistakes.
Qur'an said father, you brought in the interpretation of uncle. Really? Whether you like it or loathe it, nit every single man down from Ibrahim till Muhammad was a believer, and ofcos they were decendants of Ibrahim and Ascendants of Muhammad....so tread carefully.
As for who is or who is not in hell, Allahu a'lam. why should you bother about them?. I dont think its that type of knowledge we must acquire

babylolaroy: Al-baqir, do you seriously think it needed to dabble into these discussions. am beginning to be afraid for you. These are delicate matters regarding which one MUST not make mistakes.

Yes ma'am. Please do not be afraid of me o.
They are serious matters that need to be discussed. And why is it so? See my reason below.

babylolaroy:
Qur'an said father, you brought in the interpretation of uncle.

Yes Qur'an says "FATHER". Mind you the same Qur'an also use the word "FATHER" here @underlined below:

Allah says concerning Yaqub (as):
"Or were you witnesses when death approached Ya'qub? When he said unto his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We shall worship your God, the God of your fathers , Ibrahim, Isma'il, Ishaq, One God, and to Him we submit."~al-Baqarah:133

It is an established fact that Yaqub's father was
Ishaq (Isaac) and not Ismail who was his uncle, but
according to the general custom, he used to call him his father.

There's neither confusion nor misinterpretation here. Why do we go far to the books of hadith and sirah (history) to shed more light in the Tafsir of certain verses and surah of the noble Qur'an?

babylolaroy:
Really? Whether you like it or loathe it, nit every single man down from Ibrahim till Muhammad was a believer, and ofcos they were decendants of Ibrahim and Ascendants of Muhammad....so tread carefully.

Yes. Not every single individual from the progeny of Nabi Ibrahim (as) till Muhammad (saws) were believer. In fact Quran testified to that while Nabi Ibrahim (as) was made an Imam. He asked the same for his progeny that they should be made Imam also. Allah granted his request but said the favor will never reach the Zalimoun (transgressor, sinner etc) among them. Check Sura al-Baqarah.

babylolaroy:
As for who is or who is not in hell, Allahu a'lam. why should you bother about them?. I dont think its that type of knowledge we must acquire

But when al-bukhari recorded that prophet's parents were in Hell, you believed that abi? Aren't you since Bukhari is "Sahih"?

1. This thread is in response to a thread opened by a nairalander, Unbias. Its unfortunate NL has lost most of its datas.

How does it sound that Allah extol mother of Jesus and Muhammad's mother, Amina was a "Kafir" according to bukhari? Yet muslims named their daughter Amina. Allah does not love the "mushrikin (idolators) Quran says.

NB: Many muslim and christian alike who rely on comparative religion to affirm their faith, when compare Jesus and Muhammad question the personality of Muhammad many a times. One of the comparism is the issue of parents. Another is the fact that Jesus was talked about to be free from sins whereas many ulama interpreted Quran that Muhammad was a sinner yet fanatically preached that Muhammad (saws) was greater than Jesus (as). I have seen muslims converting to christianity based on these comparism of a thing and that is a big deal for me.

2. According to the holy Qur'an, the Mushrikin are impure. Are you telling me Muhammad (saws) was born out of impure parents and definitely have impure traits?

The gate to the city of Muhammad's knowledge, Ali said concerning prophets of God:

"Allah provided for them (i.e the prophets) the best place (the loins of their forefathers) and gave them the best placements (wombs of their mother). He transferred them from distinguished and respectable loins to pure wombs..."

Salam

i dont believe the sahihain are infallible. NO. But i also do not place myself in the position to bring out which hadith is wrong. NO
whether Amina, the prophet's mother was a believer or not is also beyond me. I'd only beg you to let it lie. Am not sure what you think to achieve by discussing their places before Allah

babylolaroy: i dont believe the sahihain are infallible. NO.

Ma sha Allah.

babylolaroy:
But i also do not place myself in the position to bring out which hadith is wrong. NO

Fair enough!

babylolaroy:
whether Amina, the prophet's mother was a believer or not is also beyond me.

No it is not if you are sincere and do not belong to the class of those who Quran challenged saying: "afala taqilun - do they not use there intellect?"

I put it to you that Quran declares the Mushrikun/kafirun as Najis - impure, and detested by Allah!

I put it to you that a believer is instructed by Allah in the Quran to cut his tie with the Mushrikun, be it friendship or blood tie!

I put it to you that a believer cannot inherit from a kafir!

Yet Muhammad (saws) was so proud of his father that he loved being called Ibn Abdullah. Besides no mushrikin/kafir ever accused the holy prophet either at warfront or anytime, being a son of mushrikin especially when he launched the mission of abolishing idol-worshipping.

So tell me how is it rational to admit the narration which indicate that prophet's parents to be Kafir even if you are not interested in the Tafsir and words of the 'gate to the city of knowledge of Muhammad,' quoted above?

Whoever named his daughter Amina do so in regard to the mother of Muhammad (saws). The implication is, if the hadith narrated by bukhari is true, you do so after "a kafir".

I say those hadith a LIES fabricated by the enemies of the prophet, the Banu Ummayyad. Unfortunately, innocent muslims were programmed to have a respected spot for bukhari in their heart, in whatever he recorded even if it contradict Quran blatantly.

babylolaroy:
I'd only beg you to let it lie. Am not sure what you think to achieve by discussing their places before Allah

I can never let it lie when especially some fanatics used that to confuse muslims as to the "sinful" lineage of the holy prophet (saws). Muhammad (saws) is pure by virtue of his birth from pure parent.

And it is never a crime to present the opposite view and refute those muslims who argued that prophet's parents are kafir. You are free to chose nobody impose any idea on you but do not deliberately close your eyes on the other side of the coin.

Their (prophet's parents) places before Allah is of highest status among the those who believe in God and work righteouness. They NEVER associated partner with their Lord.

Wa salam alaykum. Ramadan kareem.

AlBaqir:

Ma sha Allah.



Fair enough!



No it is not if you are sincere and do not belong to the class of those who Quran challenged saying: "afala taqilun - do they not use there intellect?"

I put it to you that Quran declares the Mushrikun/kafirun as Najis - impure, and detested by Allah!

I put it to you that a believer is instructed by Allah in the Quran to cut his tie with the Mushrikun, be it friendship or blood tie!

I put it to you that a believer cannot inherit from a kafir!

Yet Muhammad (saws) was so proud of his father that he loved being called Ibn Abdullah. Besides no mushrikin/kafir ever accused the holy prophet either at warfront or anytime, being a son of mushrikin especially when he launched the mission of abolishing idol-worshipping.

So tell me how is it rational to admit the narration which indicate that prophet's parents to be Kafir even if you are not interested in the Tafsir and words of the 'gate to the city of knowledge of Muhammad,' quoted above?

Whoever named his daughter Amina do so in regard to the mother of Muhammad (saws). The implication is, if the hadith narrated by bukhari is true, you do so after "a kafir".

I say those hadith a LIES fabricated by the enemies of the prophet, the Banu Ummayyad. Unfortunately, innocent muslims were programmed to have a respected spot for bukhari in their heart, in whatever he recorded even if it contradict Quran blatantly.



I can never let it lie when especially some fanatics used that to confuse muslims as to the "sinful" lineage of the holy prophet (saws). Muhammad (saws) is pure by virtue of his birth from pure parent.

And it is never a crime to present the opposite view and refute those muslims who argued that prophet's parents are kafir. You are free to chose nobody impose any idea on you but do not deliberately close your eyes on the other side of the coin.

Their (prophet's parents) places before Allah is of highest status among the those who believe in God and work righteouness. They NEVER associated partner with their Lord.

Wa salam alaykum. Ramadan kareem.

Not bad. And i will just agree with you this time. But for all sakes, Allahu a'lam