I dont support Isreal and I do not support Palestine. I support peace. However, it must be said that Isreal is the bigger country and has the bigger responsibility in ending the matter. Both sides have messed up, but it is up to Isreal as the bigger country to find a peaceful and democratic solution. When a big brother and a small brother fight, it is expected that the older brother should be the bigger man and start the reconciliation process.


Bringing this back to religion, there are 3 failures on the part of muslims or islamic countries where Palestine is concerned;


1) Plans for Egypt and Jordan but none for Palestine?
After many wars in the 60's/70's/80's, Egypt and Jordan had border agreements with isreal but there was little or no agreements on Palestine. Had islamic countries or monarchies pressured for deals on Palestine's soveriegnty earlier there might have been some improvements on border relations between isreal and palestine. Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria were mostly concerned for their own national issues. A united Arab League could have gotten some leeway on Palestine in the earlier days of the conflict.


2) Islamic isolationism leads to indifference towards Palestinian suffering by atheists, christians, bhuddists and hindus.
A fellow atheist said to me the other day- "what if we give Palestinians freedom and sovereignty and they use it to install sharia law, with which they would then have blasphemy laws that would affect atheists and also stone women".
^^^^^
That quote has a very deep point. Many atheists and christians have seen intolerance from many islamic countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria etc. They have been discriminated against and banned from practising their religions freely in many islamic countries and so, they just act indifferent towards Palestine- after all, Palestine is another muslim country that would probably discriminate against them if it gets its soveriegnty.
^^^
Also, compare this with the support Isreal has from non-Jews whether it does right or wrong. Christians and atheists would be more comfortable in Isreal compared to many islamic countries.



3) UAE, Qatar and Saudi Arabia prefer to invest oil money in riba than Palestine
These Arab countries are heavily investing in Europe to make money rather than building schools,, hospitals etc in Palestine. A city in Malta is being built by UAE investors. London has many buildings owned/built for Arabs.

When Arab countries are not investing in Palestine and telling their leaders/Hamas to focus on using politics and negotiation to end the conflict, why would the rest of the world care? Palestine's brothers do not care.

Ceasefire for now....thank God!

I condemn the continous killing of the Palestinians by Isreali forces, expressing my deepest sympathy.

First thing first. They gave away too much and had no back up plan at the onset of the conflict. On teaming up against the new state, they never doubted their victory as odds were stacked against Isreal. For instance, other than getting driven from their land, a sizeable fraction of palestinians voluntarily vacated their land out of fear or compliance with the arab authorities, hoping to return once Isreal has been crushed.

The outcome was ursurption and annexation of the land by Isreal after arabs' defeat, partly to forestall any further security threat and thus leaving the Palestinians in the cold.

Shamed and distraught, majority of the Palestinians would pass the offer even if Isreal open her borders for them today.

TheBigUrban2:
When Arab countries are not investing in Palestine and telling their leaders/Hamas to focus on using politics and negotiation to end the conflict, why would the
rest of the world care?
Palestine's brothers do not care.

Let aside that, how many percent of displaced palestinians have been admitted by neighbouring Arab countries? I feel so sad for the Palestinians. Even Hamas seen unconcerned for their worsening plight.

Majority of the Palestinians(and Isrealis) will die for the two state solution proposed over 60 yrs back. Hamas are too bent on crushing the entire Isreal and reclaiming the land wholly as before Jewish immigration to even listen to the cries of the Palestinians. They see this as a religious duty and its fulfilment rank above the well being of the Palestinians. This could partly explains for the high level of casualties on the Palestinian side.

Isreali government would never let the welfare of the Isrealis be second to any course.

TheBigUrban2:
Islamic isolationism leads to indifference towards Palestinian suffering by atheists, christians,
bhuddists and hindus.

Any reasonable observer feels for the palestinians(not Hamas) but somehow this indifference still looms because as you stated no one want a Sharia state like Iran or Pakistan that will suppress suppress non-muslims, critics, secularists. You can check the rights enjoined by Christians in Saudi A, comparing that with the rights enjoined by muslims in US.

Look at Isreal, after the first war(1948) the arabs or Muslims that remained in the new state of Isreal instead of joining the exodus were granted citizenship with full rights and priviledge enjoyed by any Jew or Isreali. Within a Sharia state like the one Hamas seek to establish, an isreali within will continue to remain a 2nd class citizen till he fully embraced Islam.

usermane:

Let aside that, how many percent of displaced palestinians have been admitted by neighbouring Arab countries? I feel so sad for the Palestinians. Even Hamas seen unconcerned for their worsening plight.

Majority of the Palestinians(and Isrealis) will die for the two state solution proposed over 60 yrs back. Hamas are too bent on crushing the entire Isreal and reclaiming the land wholly as before Jewish immigration to even listen to the cries of the Palestinians. They see this as a religious duty and its fulfilment rank above the well being of the Palestinians. This could partly explains for the high level of casualties on the Palestinian side.

Isreali government would never let the welfare of the Isrealis be second to any course.

Very sad situations for the Palestine people

Cheated and betrayed

usermane:

Any reasonable observer feels for the palestinians(not Hamas) but somehow this indifference still looms because as you stated no one want a Sharia state like Iran or Pakistan that will suppress suppress non-muslims, critics, secularists. You can check the rights enjoined by Christians in Saudi A, comparing that with the rights enjoined by muslims in US.

Look at Isreal, after the first war(1948) the arabs or Muslims that remained in the new state of Isreal instead of joining the exodus were granted citizenship with full rights and priviledge enjoyed by any Jew or Isreali. Within a Sharia state like the one Hamas seek to establish, an isreali within will continue to remain a 2nd class citizen till he fully embraced Islam.

Of course, majority of non-muslims dislike living in a sharia state. Who wants his or her freedom restricted and to be in fear of execution at the slightest accusation of blasphemy?

This is what causes the indifference to Palestine. "if Palestine gets it sovereignty, wouldnt it be another islamic country I could be executed for my disbelief"?

BigUrban2:

3) UAE, Qatar and Saudi
Arabia prefer to invest
oil money in riba

Pls can you shed light on this? Doesn't the Gulf countries all forbid even the slightest interest?

usermane:

Pls can you shed light on this? Doesn't the Gulf countries all forbid even the slightest interest?

First of all, OPEC increases the price of oil as they like.


Secondly, many of these islamic countries have money and currency deposits in Western Banks that yield interest

TheBigUrban2:

First of all, OPEC increases the price of oil as they like.


Secondly, many of these islamic countries have money and currency deposits in Western Banks that yield interest

There are non interest banks in their country. Something tells me that i need to be schooled on this. What would drive the government of an anti riba masses to invest in riba banks?

usermane:
There are non interest banks in their country. Something tells me that i need to be schooled on this. What would drive the government of an anti riba masses to invest in riba banks?

They know that islamic finance can not give them the profits they need

TheBigUrban2:


They know that islamic finance can not give them the profits they need

And they do not stop their mullahs from cursing even bankers that charge fair interest?
Anyway, my economics isn't so good and i 've always thought the muslims claims that zero interest banking is increasingly adopted even in Europe for it massive economic contribution was true.

usermane:
And they do not stop their mullahs from cursing even bankers that charge fair interest?
Anyway, my economics isn't so good and i 've always thought the muslims claims that zero interest banking is increasingly adopted even in Europe for it massive economic contribution was true.

That is the hypocrisy. Some of their politicians and business men have shares in western companies.

@Urban, you are just being unfair to yourself and being deceptive. Let me help you out here a little since you refused to read my links in other thread nor did you watch the videos. Yet you whining around like a little chicken behind its mother. Here is the thing. What you termed Islamic economy that you claim doesnt exist is coded in Arabic term Murabaha or simply Murabah. Do you actually think muslims here have time to write a book over this just to satisfy you?.
Well, Murabaha is a section Islam and economics which deals with banking and finacing, investment, capital gain and loss etc. Now that you have code name, do your research. Dont expect me to type and talk here. The videos I gave you talked about Murabaha. Murabaha is Shariah compliant which UK adopted or partly aopted to safe their freaking economy. I am not economists but i am very well aware of this going.
Murabaha is free of interest (usury a k a riba). Though it's abused at some point in the UK. On FOXNews some years back in the early economy crisis, they talked about adopting Shariah compliant. Though FOX anti-islam rhetoric simply downplayed glorifying Shariah economy but the host did say he would personally adopt it to safe his investment at Wall Street back then.
As for you Usermane, the way you are clueless about economics, is the same way about islam altogether. Reading your tune here suggests that you do not even recognize riba being forbidden. Quran has zero tolerant for it. It's that simple. Hadith talks about it at length. It's a form of modern slavery which now adopted universally. It makes rich permanently rich and poor permanently poor. It doesnt matter if it's 1% interest rate or 100%. The former would enslave you slowly. Thats all.
TheBigUrban2, you are just being sadistic here. Not all Arab or Gulf investment in the west involve usury. I really cant get into this since i dont know them personally. It's unfair to assume because they deposit in foreign banks mean interest deposit. I have been banking with PNC for 10yrs and HSBC for 8yrs. Never for once my transactions involved riba. You have options before opening account with these companies which determines interest based investment or deposit. I was persoanlly asked by HSBC 5 yrs ago that my account qualified for interest accumulation which I promply rejected. Of-course one should monitor his or her accoount to be sure of compliant. Accoridng to HSBC rep that time, monhtly interest would yield 500$. Now someone with no conscience would have definitely accepted this offer and by now 500 by 12 by 5 would have yielded lump sum. But sorry, I am not interested. Please Urban go and study Islamic banking and finance. This is also part of economy growth, "Islamic Economy"

Empiree: @Urban, you are just being unfair to yourself and being deceptive. Let me help you out here a little since you refused to read my links in other thread nor did you watch the videos. Yet you whining around like a little chiken behind its mother. Here is the thing. What you termed Islamic economy that you claim doesnt exist is coded in Arabic term Murabaha or simply Murabah. Do you actually think muslims here have time to write a book over this just to satisfy you?.
Well, Murabaha is a section Islam and economics which deals with banking and finacing, investment, capital gain and loss etc. Now that you have code name, do your research. Dont expect me to type and talk here. The videos I have you talked about Murabaha. Murabaha is Shariah compliant which UK adopted or partly aopted to safe their freaking economy. I am not economists but i am very well aware of this going.
Murabaha is free of interest (usury a k a riba). Though it's abused at some point in the UK. On FOXNews some years back in the early economy crisis, they talked about adopting Shariah compliant. Though FOX anti-islam rhetoric simply downplayed glorifying Shariah economy but the host did say he would personally adopt it to safe his investment at Wall Street back then.
As for you Usermane, the way you are clueless about economics, is the same way about islam altogether. Reading your tune here suggests that you do not even recognize riba being forbidden. Quran has zero tolerant for it. It's that simple. Hadith talks about it at length. It's a form of modern slavery which now adopted universally. It makes rich permanently rich and poor permanently poor. It doesnt matter if it's 1% interest rate or 100%. The former would enslave you slowly. Thats all.
TheBigUrban2, you are just being sadistic here. Not all Arab or Gulf investment in the west involve usury. I really cant get into this since i dont know them personally. It's unfair to assume because they deposit in foreign banks mean interest deposit. I have been banking with PNC for 10yrs and HSBC for 8yrs. Never for once my transactions involved riba. You have options before opening account with these companies which determines interest based investment or deposit. I was persoanlly asked by HSBC 5 yrs ago that my account qualified for interest accumulation which I promply rejected. Of-course one should monitor his or her accoount to be sure of compliant. Accoridng to HSBC rep that time, monhtly interest would yield 500$. Now someone with no conscience would have definitely accepted this offer and by now 500 by 12 by 5 would have yielded lump sum. But sorry, I am not interested. Please Urban go and study Islamic banking and finance. This is also part of economy growth, "Islamic Economy"

@ bold, I lived in london- if you are going to lie for islam, make it an undetectable one.

UK adopted sharia compliant finace to save their economy? Taquiyah!!!!!!!!

Empiree: @Urban, you are just being unfair to yourself and being deceptive. Let me help you out here a little since you refused to read my links in other thread nor did you watch the videos. Yet you whining around like a little chiken behind its mother. Here is the thing. What you termed Islamic economy that you claim doesnt exist is coded in Arabic term Murabaha or simply Murabah. Do you actually think muslims here have time to write a book over this just to satisfy you?.
Well, Murabaha is a section Islam and economics which deals with banking and finacing, investment, capital gain and loss etc. Now that you have code name, do your research. Dont expect me to type and talk here. The videos I have you talked about Murabaha. Murabaha is Shariah compliant which UK adopted or partly aopted to safe their freaking economy. I am not economists but i am very well aware of this going.
Murabaha is free of interest (usury a k a riba). Though it's abused at some point in the UK. On FOXNews some years back in the early economy crisis, they talked about adopting Shariah compliant. Though FOX anti-islam rhetoric simply downplayed glorifying Shariah economy but the host did say he would personally adopt it to safe his investment at Wall Street back then.
As for you Usermane, the way you are clueless about economics, is the same way about islam altogether. Reading your tune here suggests that you do not even recognize riba being forbidden. Quran has zero tolerant for it. It's that simple. Hadith talks about it at length. It's a form of modern slavery which now adopted universally. It makes rich permanently rich and poor permanently poor. It doesnt matter if it's 1% interest rate or 100%. The former would enslave you slowly. Thats all.
TheBigUrban2, you are just being sadistic here. Not all Arab or Gulf investment in the west involve usury. I really cant get into this since i dont know them personally. It's unfair to assume because they deposit in foreign banks mean interest deposit. I have been banking with PNC for 10yrs and HSBC for 8yrs. Never for once my transactions involved riba. You have options before opening account with these companies which determines interest based investment or deposit. I was persoanlly asked by HSBC 5 yrs ago that my account qualified for interest accumulation which I promply rejected. Of-course one should monitor his or her accoount to be sure of compliant. Accoridng to HSBC rep that time, monhtly interest would yield 500$. Now someone with no conscience would have definitely accepted this offer and by now 500 by 12 by 5 would have yielded lump sum. But sorry, I am not interested. Please Urban go and study Islamic banking and finance. This is also part of economy growth, "Islamic Economy"

If you were intelligent, you wold have switched to Barclays who have a sharia compliant account package for muslim customers.

TheBigUrban2:


If you were intelligent, you wold have switched to Barclays who have a sharia compliant account package for muslim customers.

Yes, took a loan there 3 yrs ago. Not Barclay though

TheBigUrban2:


@ bold, I lived in london- if you are going to lie for islam, make it an undetectable one.

UK adopted sharia compliant finace to save their economy? Taquiyah!!!!!!!!

Taqiyah? I guess the word now means something else to you . You are not Atheist rather a confused religionist

Empiree:
Taqiyah? I guess the word now means something else to you . You are not Atheist rather a confused religionist

What? Am an atheist.

You are too used to old white men like Dawkins who dont read the Quran but criticize islam

TheBigUrban2:


What? Am an atheist.

You are too used to old white men like Dawkins who dont read the Quran but criticize islam

Didnt you call yourself by that before

Maharaba is just another form of riba if you dig deep. Infact, it could even be more exploitative than riba. I haven't seen any evidence for it in the Quran, maybe sb can help me. I don't mind getting evidence from hadith.

Zero interest banking shouldn't be always ascribed to Islam. Usury or interest was never accepted by the Catholic Church, ancient historic cultures and nations. So, it is funny how orthodox muslims just want to take all the credit whenever zero interest banking is sought after or adopted.

usermane: Maharaba is just another form of riba if you dig deep. Infact, it could even be more exploitative than riba. I haven't seen any evidence for it in the Quran, maybe sb can help me. I don't mind getting evidence from hadith.

Zero interest banking shouldn't be always ascribed to Islam. Usury or interest was never accepted by the Catholic Church, ancient historic cultures and nations. So, it is funny how orthodox muslims just want to take all the credit whenever zero interest banking is sought after or adopted.

If you read btw lines, I said clearly that it's abused. The so called Islamic banking now really not riba-free. It's a form of back door riba which is even worse than front door (conventional). @bold, give reference from Quran to proof this. Israelite are first(perhaps) to practice usury which Isa(as) condemned them for. Riba is not ambiguous subject at all. And why shouldn't orthodox take credit for riba-free transaction since Islam is the only religion now standing tall against it?. Abeg go siddon. And when i brought up Murabaha on this thread was only in reference to Urban pig-headed demands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps-27-S2BPo

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ooseven: ...i need to give my head a wobble. One minute, I was reading about palestine and the next all discussions swing to banking systems. Just shows how negligible the Palestinian topic can be.

That's life. Urban should have kept his "Islamic economy" brouhaha on the other thread.Well, at least the crisis subsided. Thank God for that Amin

TheBigUrban2:
Taquiyah!!!!!!!!

.

ooseven:

How about you leave that argument on the other thread and focus on the topic at hand, so you are not accused of derailing.

Actually you wrong. If you go over the thread again you should notice that Urban and usermane derailed it. I even posted this link to the other thread to divert his attention but he came back here with his economy this and that

.

ooseven:

To be honest I have a hang of almost all the players in this section, and you come across as the one that likes to derail topics you don't agree with. I even saw a post of yours where you mentioned deliberately trying to derail a topic.

So, I say focus on the topic or at least touch on the topic before going on a tangent.

Gosh! Haba! WAITING i do u nau. Abeg make una let me be

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ooseven:

I am not a trinity, so why refer to me as 'una'?

I admit that by hounding you I am also derailing as I haven't said anything regarding the topic. For that I apologize to the OP. However, its about time you are righted.

My frequent visit to this forum is in large part due to the intelligent writing of usermane, albaqir, urban, lagosshia and the smart retorts by tbaba, vedaxcool etc. You on the other hand, do not try to engage in that level of discussion. You just want to scatter the place and render any thread you don't like useless.

Please change.

eeeh, e gba mi lowo manu yi ke. He dey waka com afta me. weting i do u self?. Na so u dey read my posts? abeg make una show me where i dey scatter scatter everything. Very early in morning u dey attach urself with me. Did i vex u somewhere? Abeg if i did maybe u picked the wrong empiree. Daris anoda eempire on NL. weting i do u?

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