Jaymaestro:

Lucifer killed Gabriel - Guess, Angels cease to exist when they are killed.
Michael is the one left in Hell's pit.

I meant to type Micheal....

Maybe they will probably need him to deal with Lucifer when it's time

There is something i noticed in this show. Is it that i am wrong or that i am the only one that noticed or that others did notice it but refused to speak up ?

<clears throat>
its about the mark of cain and its consequences (esp the darkness)
first of all, we all know that the mark of cain (MOC) came about as a result of sam and dean (S&) trying to defeat Abaddon. Which you could say is a noble cause (or is it).
Abaddon had already been defeate by s&d so i was shocked and perplexed when they (s&d) were over hyping her. why did the need the first blade when the already had a way to deal with her ?
Why didnt they try other options?
Secondly, how come only the first blade can kill Abaddon ? Whereas a multitude of things can kill an angel? Does it mean that Abaddon is more powerful than an angel ?
Why cant an angel blade kill her ?
An angel blade is a much older weapon that can kill almost anything, so why not Abaddon ? Why didnt they (s&d) even try to use it ?

Gmajor:
There is something i noticed in this show. Is it that i am wrong or that i am the only one that noticed or that others did notice it but refused to speak up ?

<clears throat>
its about the mark of cain and its consequences (esp the darkness)
first of all, we all know that the mark of cain (MOC) came about as a result of sam and dean (S&) trying to defeat Abaddon. Which you could say is a noble cause (or is it).
Abaddon had already been defeate by s&d so i was shocked and perplexed when they (s&d) were over hyping her. why did the need the first blade when the already had a way to deal with her ?
Why didnt they try other options?
Secondly, how come only the first blade can kill Abaddon ? Whereas a multitude of things can kill an angel? Does it mean that Abaddon is more powerful than an angel ?
Why cant an angel blade kill her ?
An angel blade is a much older weapon that can kill almost anything, so why not Abaddon ? Why didnt they (s&d) even try to use it ?

I don't understand your first question but I will answer your second question. The only thing that can kill an angel is their sword and archangels. Abbadon was a knight of hell created by Cain himself for the devil but then he realized that they were deadly and decided to get rid of them which he did safe for one, Abbadon who possessed the one he loved which made him hesitate and by the time he plunged the blade into her, Abbadon escaped. The only thing that can kill a knight of hell is that blade and since Cain is much stronger than most angels and demons, his products will be harder to kill. Just like a soul eater is hard to kill or the four horsemen who can be killed by death's scythe only, a knight of hell can only be killed by Cain's blade and that's how Dean killed her.

<continue from previous post >
what happened to the colt self (someone should remind me cos i cant remeber again)
Thirdly, when dean was about to take the MOC, cain told him that the mark came with a price. Why then did Dean not refuse it considering all he had seen through out all his life. He should have known that the mark would come at a high price yet Dean, a very self rightous character decieded to take the mark. Doesnt this fall out of line from the dean we know ?
Remeber way back in season 5 when he travelled to the future and saw what the consequence of not allow mic to posses him would lead to, yet he said no that there must be another way. (this is after he had seen with his own two eye what lay ahead, he still was defiant. But last season, he was willing to accept the mark no matter the price.
This is definatly not the Dean we know

parrotibaba:
I don't understand your first question but I will answer your second question. The only thing that can kill an angel is their sword and archangels. Abbadon was a knight of hell created by Cain himself for the devil but then he realized that they were deadly and decided to get rid of them which he did safe for one, Abbadon who possessed the one he loved which made him hesitate and by the time he plunged the blade into her, Abbadon escaped. The only thing that can kill a knight of hell is that blade and since Cain is much stronger than most angels and demons, his products will be harder to kill. Just like a soul eater is hard to kill or the four horsemen who can be killed by death's scythe only, a knight of hell can only be killed by Cain's blade and that's how Dean killed her.

the first time sam and dean encounter Abaddon how did they dispose of her. Why didnt the try that method again ?

Gmajor:
<continue from previous post >
what happened to the colt self (someone should remind me cos i cant remeber again)
Thirdly, when dean was about to take the MOC, cain told him that the mark came with a price. Why then did Dean not refuse it considering all he had seen through out all his life. He should have known that the mark would come at a high price yet Dean, a very self rightous character decieded to take the mark. Doesnt this fall out of line from the dean we know ?
Remeber way back in season 5 when he travelled to the future and saw what the consequence of not allow mic to posses him would lead to, yet he said no that there must be another way. (this is after he had seen with his own two eye what lay ahead, he still was defiant. But last season, he was willing to accept the mark no matter the price.
This is definatly not the Dean we know

E be like say you still dey season 9 supernatural dey season 11 now oh

The reason he took the mark is simply because it alongside the blade was capable of killing abbadon. He didn't have a choice here. In season 2 Dean despite knowing that he will go to hell, sold his soul for his brother so accepting the mark of Cain and dealing with the consequences is typical Dean. Besides in that season 5, if not that Sam, Cass and Bobby stopped him, he could have said yes because he believed Michael was the only one that could defeat the devil despite millions of people dying.

Gmajor:

the first time sam and dean encounter Abaddon how did they dispose of her. Why didnt the try that method again ?

They didn't. They just trapped her in that woman's body which she later escaped.

parrotibaba:
They didn't. They just trapped her in that woman's body which she later escaped.

and didnt that stop her effectively till they decieded to put her back 2geda

Gmajor:

and didnt that stop her effectively till they decieded to put her back 2geda

it did but it didn't kill her which is the bone of argument here and once she got out, she's not going to allow Dean and co to just shoot her with demon trap bullets and cut her head of again hence the reason they needed the first blade.

parrotibaba:

E be like say you still dey season 9 supernatural dey season 11 now oh

The reason he took the mark is simply because it alongside the blade was capable of killing abbadon. He didn't have a choice here. In season 2 Dean despite knowing that he will go to hell, sold his soul for his brother so accepting the mark of Cain and dealing with the consequences is typical Dean. Besides in that season 5, if not that Sam, Cass and Bobby stopped him, he could have said yes because he believed Michael was the only one that could defeat the devil despite millions of people dying.

just look at how you are distorting history.
Dean selling his soul and the mark of cain incident are two entirely different things.
If you follow supernatural you wil notice sometin. As much a S& are heroes who save the world all the time, they would let the world burn just to save each other -no matter the price.
Therefore dean selling his soul is actually in character with the dean we know.
You also said that sam, cas and bobby talked dean out of acceptin mike. This is a very big lie. I wonder where you pull this one from.
In an episode in S5, the angel zachariah (i think) took dean to the future and showed him what wil happen should he say no to mike. When dean returned to the present he stil refused despite having concrete evidence that this wil spell doom for the world. This then led zachariah to torture him be4 some intervend and saved. Bro, this is how it happen. There was no sam or bobby in the pic doing any convincing.
Also taking the mark was really unneccessary cos the had already defeated abaddon before with any mark.
So its kinda confusing that dean should just take a mark that he does not know what it wil do to him

parrotibaba:
it did but it didn't kill her which is the bone of argument here and once she got out, she's not going to allow Dean and co to just shoot her with demon trap bullets and cut her head of again hence the reason they needed the first blade.

a blade vs a gun in a duel.
Which would you choose?

Gmajor:
a blade vs a gun in a duel. Which would you choose?

A gun of course.

Gmajor:

just look at how you are distorting history.
Dean selling his soul and the mark of cain incident are two entirely different things.
If you follow supernatural you wil notice sometin. As much a S& are heroes who save the world all the time, they would let the world burn just to save each other -no matter the price.
Therefore dean selling his soul is actually in character with the dean we know.
You also said that sam, cas and bobby talked dean out of acceptin mike. This is a very big lie. I wonder where you pull this one from.
In an episode in S5, the angel zachariah (i think) took dean to the future and showed him what wil happen should he say no to mike. When dean returned to the present he stil refused despite having concrete evidence that this wil spell doom for the world. This then led zachariah to torture him be4 some intervend and saved. Bro, this is how it happen. There was no sam or bobby in the pic doing any convincing.
Also taking the mark was really unneccessary cos the had already defeated abaddon before with any mark.
So its kinda confusing that dean should just take a mark that he does not know what it wil do to him

You actually got it wrong, go and re-watch season 5 again and you will see that Dean actually told a jehovah witness to call down Michael but Cass intervened, beating him up in the process. Sam also talked him out, so did Bobby who reminded him that he told him(Bobby) not to quit which was the reason Bobby didn't kill himself. When Adam was kidnapped, used as a trap to get Dean, Sam believed that he won't say yes which he didn't do because he didn't want to fail Sam since Sam has grown to have faith in him.

You can't kill abbadon by just chopping her body into pieces, she will eventually escape as she later did, psychically controlling her hands to get out the devil trap bullet from her head. The only way to kill her is with the first blade and the only the first blade will work is by getting Cain's mark, there is no other way to kill/stop her.

parrotibaba:
You actually got it wrong, go and re-watch season 5 again and you will see that Dean actually told a jehovah witness to call down Michael but Cass intervened, beating him up in the process. Sam also talked him out, so did Bobby who reminded him that he told him(Bobby) not to quit which was the reason Bobby didn't kill himself. When Adam was kidnapped, used as a trap to get Dean, Sam believed that he won't say yes which he didn't do because he didn't want to fail Sam since Sam has grown to have faith in him.

You can't kill abbadon by just chopping her body into pieces, she will eventually escape as she later did, psychically controlling her hands to get out the devil trap bullet from her head. The only way to kill her is with the first blade and the only the first blade will work is by getting Cain's mark, there is no other way to kill/stop her.

she only gained conciousnes when her head was reattached to her body. This is a very effective method. Same applies for leviathans

parrotibaba:
A gun of course.

so why didnt the brothers try to shoot Abaddon wit a bullet lace with a devils trap ?
Instead the choose to opt for a blade that require close contact

Gmajor:

so why didnt the brothers try to shoot Abaddon wit a bullet lace with a devils trap ?
Instead the choose to opt for a blade that require close contact

You have to shoot her in the head in other to trap her and you can't expect her to just wait for Sam and dean to just come close enough to shoot her in the head. And the end game is to kill her and not chop her head off.

Gmajor:

she only gained conciousnes when her head was reattached to her body. This is a very effective method. Same applies for leviathans

remember the head of the leviathans, Dick Roman didn't die easy.

Gmajor:

just look at how you are distorting history.
Dean selling his soul and the mark of cain incident are two entirely different things.
If you follow supernatural you wil notice sometin. As much a S& are heroes who save the world all the time, they would let the world burn just to save each other -no matter the price.
Therefore dean selling his soul is actually in character with the dean we know.
You also said that sam, cas and bobby talked dean out of acceptin mike. This is a very big lie. I wonder where you pull this one from.
In an episode in S5, the angel zachariah (i think) took dean to the future and showed him what wil happen should he say no to mike. When dean returned to the present he stil refused despite having concrete evidence that this wil spell doom for the world. This then led zachariah to torture him be4 some intervend and saved. Bro, this is how it happen. There was no sam or bobby in the pic doing any convincing.
Also taking the mark was really unneccessary cos the had already defeated abaddon before with any mark.
So its kinda confusing that dean should just take a mark that he does not know what it wil do to him

I think you should know Dean is a dynamic character unlike his brother . He changes with situation , nonetheless retains some core characteristics of himself.
I think their motto is Family First except Sam has shown in previous episodes `He can let Dean die cause he's annoyingly and allegedly strong and Independent. He also believes Dean saves him[Sam] to elude Loneliness–this is true in some cases but in other cases Dean Just loves his family.
It's true they tried to change his heart cus Dean gave up after realising God doesn't care about Apocalypse. He even told his brother He would have given up but seeing his brother faith in him despite Sam been hemorrhaged by silly Zechariah_He decided not to give up, and saved them excluding their half brother.
Dean receiving the mark and killing Abaddon was out desperation - see He changed again , after they Lost Kevin.

parrotibaba:
You have to shoot her in the head in other to trap her and you can't expect her to just wait for Sam and dean to just come close enough to shoot her in the head. And the end game is to kill her and not chop her head off.

actually, a shot any where will do the trick.
Remeber when Abaddon shot Crowley in the arm.
Even if this wasnt the case, how is it goin to be easier to stab her rather than shoot her ?

Jaymaestro:
quote author=Gmajor post=44191405]
just look at how you are distorting history.
Dean selling his soul and the mark of cain incident are two entirely different things.
If you follow supernatural you wil notice sometin. As much a S& are heroes who save the world all the time, they would let the world burn just to save each other -no matter the price.
Therefore dean selling his soul is actually in character with the dean we know.
You also said that sam, cas and bobby talked dean out of acceptin mike. This is a very big lie. I wonder where you pull this one from.
In an episode in S5, the angel zachariah (i think) took dean to the future and showed him what wil happen should he say no to mike. When dean returned to the present he stil refused despite having concrete evidence that this wil spell doom for the world. This then led zachariah to torture him be4 some intervend and saved. Bro, this is how it happen. There was no sam or bobby in the pic doing any convincing.
Also taking the mark was really unneccessary cos the had already defeated abaddon before with any mark.
So its kinda confusing that dean should just take a mark that he does not know what it wil do to him I think you should know Dean is a dynamic character unlike his brother . He changes with situation , nonetheless retains some core characteristics of himself.
I think their motto is Family First except Sam has shown in previous episodes `He can let Dean die cause he's annoyingly and allegedly strong and Independent. He also believes Dean saves him[Sam] to elude Loneliness–this is true in some cases but in other cases Dean Just loves his family.
It's true they tried to change his heart cus Dean gave up after realising God doesn't care about Apocalypse. He even told his brother He would have given up but seeing his brother faith in him despite Sam been hemorrhaged by silly Zechariah_He decided not to give up, and saved them excluding their half brother.
Dean receiving the mark and killing Abaddon was out desperation - see He changed again , after they Lost Kevin.

what type of desperation ?
He already knew how to do away with Abaddon, yet he choose to go for the mark for reasons best known him (or should i say for plot progression )

Gmajor:

what type of desperation ?
He already knew how to do away with Abaddon, yet he choose to go for the mark for reasons best known him (or should i say for plot progression )

I think that's what desperate means_ He was desperate to kill and avoid loose ends and pay for his mistakes with Kevin and Gadreel. moreover ' I don't think abaddon would fall for the same trick twice.
Lol ..plot progression is needed ' anyways.

Jaymaestro:
I think that's what desperate means_ He was desperate to kill and avoid loose ends and pay for his mistakes with Kevin and Gadreel. moreover ' I don't think abaddon would fall for the same trick twice.
Lol ..plot progression is needed ' anyways.

Pls its not like there was anything special the way she was killed, frankly i was disappointed she cud hv telekinetically moved the blade out of range from dean.

Gmajor:

actually, a shot any where will do the trick.
Remeber when Abaddon shot Crowley in the arm.
Even if this wasnt the case, how is it goin to be easier to stab her rather than shoot her ?

You are not getting the gist, Abbadon is smarter than your average demon, you are not going to shoot her twice, she's not going to make that mistake again. Remember she was the only Knight of hell that Cain couldn't kill because she was smarter than the others, she possessed Cain's wife which gave her time to escape before Cain would have finished her off. And even if you succeed in shooting her, then what? You cut off her head and put it in a freezer and hope that her followers don't track her whereabouts to the Winchesters? You have to eventually kill her and to do that, you need the blade and the mark. Just look at Lucifer, he wasn't killed in season 5 and now he's topside again, it's always a matter of time before the followers of these evil SOBs find a way to set them free.

parrotibaba:
You are not getting the gist, Abbadon is smarter than your average demon, you are not going to shoot her twice, she's not going to make that mistake again. Remember she was the only Knight of hell that Cain couldn't kill because she was smarter than the others, she possessed Cain's wife which gave her time to escape before Cain would have finished her off. And even if you succeed in shooting her, then what? You cut off her head and put it in a freezer and hope that her followers don't track her whereabouts to the Winchesters? You have to eventually kill her and to do that, you need the blade and the mark. Just look at Lucifer, he wasn't killed in season 5 and now he's topside again, it's always a matter of time before the followers of these evil SOBs find a way to set them free.

the only person that freed Abaddon was the winchesters. They buried her pieces in various locations. So...

Ultimatesammie:

Pls its not like there was anything special the way she was killed, frankly i was disappointed she cud hv telekinetically moved the blade out of range from dean.

this was why i wondered why they did try the gun option

Gmajor:

the only person that freed Abaddon was the winchesters. They buried her pieces in various locations. So...

This was before she had an army of loyal demons and besides they brought her out to cure her and finish the trials but she escaped. The point is that the winchester can't try it again hence the reason the first blade was brought in play. Remember lilith, why didn't they just go and stab her with ruby's knife? Because they can't get close enough to. Same as Abbadon.

parrotibaba:
This was before she had an army of loyal demons and besides they brought her out to cure her and finish the trials but she escaped. The point is that the winchester can't try it again hence the reason the first blade was brought in play. Remember lilith, why didn't they just go and stab her with ruby's knife? Because they can't get close enough to. Same as Abbadon.

i love the lilth example you gave. What then made them think that they can just walk up to abaddon and stab her?

Gmajor:

i love the lilth example you gave. What then made them think that they can just walk up to abaddon and stab her?

That's a different scenario, why didn't Sam just take the blade and kill abbadon? Because he doesn't have the mark of Cain, without this mark the blade is just a piece of bone but with it, the bearer can be as strong as Cain himself hence the reason Dean was able to psychically grab the blade and kill her. Just like how Sam had the juice to kill Lilith, Dean with the mark and the blade had the juice to take out Abbadon. Apparently he didn't have the juice to take out Metatron when he fought him with the blade which resulted to his death(and rebirth into a...). Different adversaries have different ways to kill them, just like you need to salt and burn the bones of ghosts to get rid of them, the mark and the blade got rid of Abbadon.

parrotibaba:
That's a different scenario, why didn't Sam just take the blade and kill abbadon? Because he doesn't have the mark of Cain, without this mark the blade is just a piece of bone but with it, the bearer can be as strong as Cain himself hence the reason Dean was able to psychically grab the blade and kill her. Just like how Sam had the juice to kill Lilith, Dean with the mark and the blade had the juice to take out Abbadon. Apparently he didn't have the juice to take out Metatron when he fought him with the blade which resulted to his death(and rebirth into a...). Different adversaries have different ways to kill them, just like you need to salt and burn the bones of ghosts to get rid of them, the mark and the blade got rid of Abbadon.

so you are trying to say that dean knew for sure that the first blade would give him powers. Thats not true.
Am sure he just thought it was something like an angel blade- It could get the work done but that was that . No super powers attached

Gmajor:

so you are trying to say that dean knew for sure that the first blade would give him powers. Thats not true.
Am sure he just thought it was something like an angel blade- It could get the work done but that was that . No super powers attached

haaa! He took ancient power from an ancient being and he won't expect it to have supernatural powers? After everything Cain told him about the insatiable thirst for murder and also how he was able to kill almost all the Knights of hell as opposed to the stories going around that the angels did it. You do remember that Cain made a deal with the devil in other to save Adam from damnation and he was the father of murders? A weapon used by an ancient being which required being in possession of the mark of damnation to effectively use it and dean didn't think it won't give him powers? are you having a laugh? Cain himself initially refused to pass the mark to Dean because of it's dangers until Dean proved that he was a killer.

parrotibaba:
haaa! He took ancient power from an ancient being and he won't expect it to have supernatural powers? After everything Cain told him about the insatiable thirst for murder and also how he was able to kill almost all the Knights of hell as opposed to the stories going around that the angels did it. You do remember that Cain made a deal with the devil in other to save Adam from damnation and he was the father of murders? A weapon used by an ancient being which required being in possession of the mark of damnation to effectively use it and dean didn't think it won't give him powers? are you having a laugh? Cain himself initially refused to pass the mark to Dean because of it's dangers until Dean proved that he was a killer.

hmmmmmm...
When dean went to collect the blade did he know about the mark ? About cain ?
He just thought that he was going to collect a weapon. Simple and short