plaetton: A good way to spot a dumb person is when the person throws big words around in order to make it seem that he knows what he is talking about.

Did you just say pathological conditions??

What is your definition of pathological conditions?

Let me slowly show you how really dumb , daft you dishonest you are.


1. The is what you just posted. The very same thing you have been arguing against for all this thread.
So there are cases where microbes will influence the body's biochemistry for their own benefit? REALLY?
Gosh!!
Doesn't that make every st.u.p. i. d thing you have written in this thread null and void?

2. ...and Pathological conditions
So are you, a medical student, saying to the public here on NL that microbes ONLY influence the body's biochemistry for their own benefit ( a huge admission) when the body is in pathological condition ( When the body is already stricken by diseased) ?
Unbelievable.! Just unbelievable !

You st.u.pid m.o.r.on, have you not been reading all along this very thread , have you not read in your textbooks, have you not been taught THAT many varieties of microbial flora are the causes of the pathological conditions that you are blabbing about?.

Pls Pls Pls, no more.

Can someone tell this man to calm down and go back and read my posts. That is what I have been arguing for not against.
You on the other hand, maintain obtusely as the point of your thread that microbes whether pathogenous or not are always showing dominant influence on mental and psychophysical conditions, a blatant lie.

And You employ another twisting tactic in an effort to discredit me. I did not say the microbes will only influence our bodies to their own benefit WHEN THE BODY IS ALREADY STRICKEN WITH DISEASE. I SAID THEIR ACTING FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT WILL LEAD TO DISEASE CONDITIONS, THAT IS WHAT I MEANT. Dominant influence of a microbe will obviously be harmful to its host. Or are you ignorant of that also?

Lolz. You're trying to twist my words for your own benefit to save face. Pitiful.

35th post, note the bolded:

Joshthefirst: We talk about the bodies NATURAL microflora here, not pathogenic viral cells. I have summarized simply the relationship between the body and these bacteria. The brain relies on some of their products to sustain neural processes, and the body has taken advantage of their 'prescence' to help in the manifestation of some genes and so on. Of course, there are cases where things go wrong sometimes, resulting in abnormal mental or physical conditions, which can sometimes be treated. (Edited)
For you to say that they willingly interfere with our conscious choices, actually leading us to take actions for their benefits is idiotic and laughable on a grand scale. I cannot even believe i am having this conversation with a so called learned man. This is what happens when people try to subjectively twist scientific facts to match their beliefs.

Every time I said microbes, I was talking about the natural microflora, which work for our benefit, not for theirs, except they become pathogens.

You have still shown us no evidence that the NATURAL MICROFLORA OF THE HUMAN BODY TWISTS OUR MINDS AND INFLUENCES OUR BEHAVIOURS TO THEIR OWN BENEFITS, WHICH WAS THE VERY POINT OF YOUR THREAD AND THE BASIS OF YOUR PUERILE ASSUMPTIONS.

I have never seen you in a helpless state of trying to twist someone's argument to save face before. What a pity.

Joshthefirst: Can someone tell this man to calm down and go back and read my posts. That is what I have been arguing for not against.
You on the other hand, maintain obtusely as the point of your thread that microbes whether pathogenous or not are always showing dominant influence on mental and psychophysical conditions, a blatant lie.

And You employ another twisting tactic in an effort to discredit me. I did not say the microbes will only influence our bodies to their own benefit WHEN THE BODY IS ALREADY STRICKEN WITH DISEASE. I SAID THEIR ACTING FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT WILL LEAD TO DISEASE CONDITIONS, THAT IS WHAT I MEANT. Dominant influence of a microbe will obviously be harmful to its host. Or are you ignorant of that also?

Lolz. You're trying to twist my words for your own benefit to save face. Pitiful.

35th post, note the bolded:




Every time I said microbes, I was talking about the natural microflora, which work for our benefit, not for theirs, except they become pathogens.

You have still shown us no evidence that the NATURAL MICROFLORA OF THE HUMAN BODY TWISTS OUR MINDS AND INFLUENCES OUR BEHAVIOURS TO THEIR OWN BENEFITS, WHICH WAS THE VERY POINT OF YOUR THREAD AND THE BASIS OF YOUR PUERILE ASSUMPTIONS.

I have never seen you in a helpless state of trying to twist someone's argument to save face before. What a pity.

Glad someone else sees through the shenanigans of this armchair scientist. He comes on here to call microbes gods, says we are their puppets, makes surreptitious suggestions that maybe we should be praying to them and when challenged shouts "you hate science!" "you lack understanding!". If he was so concerned about science why did he put the topic in the religion section and not the science section? Anti-religious bigot.

HFOG:

Don't mind me I'm just tired of that guy talking rubbish in the name of Science.

LordReed:

Glad someone else sees through the shenanigans of this armchair scientist. He comes on here to call microbes gods, says we are their puppets, makes surreptitious suggestions that maybe we should be praying to them and when challenged shouts "you hate science!" "you lack understanding!". If he was so concerned about science why did he put the topic in the religion section and not the science section? Anti-religious bigot.

He he he.

So the thought of praying to the germs in your body is what is really jerking you of ?

Ha ha ha.

I guess you are not yet ready to trade away your invisible skymonster for the tiny monsters in your body. lol

Stop praying to empty sky my friend, start looking inwards for harmony and balance, and perhaps salvation.
lol.

Joshthefirst:
And You employ another twisting tactic in an effort to discredit me. I did not say the microbes will only influence our bodies to their own benefit WHEN THE BODY IS ALREADY STRICKEN WITH DISEASE. I SAID THEIR ACTING FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT WILL LEAD TO DISEASE CONDITIONS, THAT IS WHAT I MEANT. Dominant influence of a microbe will obviously be harmful to its host. Or are you ignorant of that also?

Joshthefirst:

that the only cases where microbes will influence a persons biochemistry for their own benefit is in pathological conditions.

Bolded in red is what you posted.

And you now you are twisting and denying it.

Joshthefirst: Nonsense.

One big question: how do these microbes influence the brain development and neurological processes?

Layman's Answer: They produce neurochemicals and aid in neural processes, they also produce substances that the body utilizes in the expression of certain genes.

So, something , a living thing that produces neurochemicals and aid in neural processes, as well as produces substances that the body utilizes in the expression of certain genes does not , by their activities influence your mental development, and ultimately your social behavior?
Is that what you are saying?

Joshthefirst: Nonsense.
Plaetton makes it look like these microbes deliberately regulate amounts of the beneficial substances they produce or directly influence our biochemical pathways for their own benefits.

Idiotic and laughable.
Pathetic.

Now compare your words in red with your words in blue.
How many contradictions can you spot?
All coming from one person, with the bonus of insults too.

plaetton:

He he he.

So the thought of praying to the germs in your body is what is really jerking you of ?

Ha ha ha.

I guess you are not yet ready to trade away your invisible skymonster for the tiny monsters in your body. lol

Stop praying to empty sky my friend, start looking inwards for harmony and balance, and perhaps salvation.
lol.

Anti-religious bigot you wanna be the first pope of the Church of Microbes? Go ahead and be my guest.

I live in harmony and balance with myself, I don't need to come to Nairaland for a bigotry fix like someone I know.

plaetton:



Bolded in red is what you posted.

And you now you are twisting and denying.


So, something , a living thing that produces neurochemicals and aid in neural processes, as well as produces substances that the body utilizes in the expression of certain genes does not , by their activities influence your mental development, and ultimately your social behavior?
Is that what you are saying?




Now compare your words in red with your words in blue.
How many contradictions can you spot?
All coming from one person, with the bonus of insults too.

Ignoring the fact that you actually didn't address my point at all, just chose to argue over words, and make it look as if I have been insulting you when I have only been speaking the truth, I will address the bolded very simply.


What I have been opposing from the on start, is not that that they influence mental debelopment and social behaviour, it is your nonsense interpretation of that fact, including the way you claim they do so for their own benefit, which is basically wrong.

They influence development the same way sunlight and water influence germination of a seed. The seed has a working relationship with the sun's rays and water in its environment, they influence its germination and keep influencing its activities as a plant, mind you. They are essential in its biochemical processes. Remember an imbalance of these essential factors can cause damage or impairment to the plant or seed.

This does not mean that they manipulate the processes of the plant for their own benefit. It only means they produce useful things needed in the development of the plant.


So the natural microflora produce useful things needed for our development, does not necessarily mean that they sirectly manipulate us for their own benefit. They are not pathogens.


I'm a good teacher, as you can see. I did not come here to explain scientific information though. It'll cost you next time Sir. Your nonsense ideology has been refuted for good. Come up with something better next time.

Joshthefirst: Ignoring the fact that you actually didn't address my point at all, just chose to argue over words, and make it look as if I have been insulting you when I have only been speaking the truth, I will address the bolded very simply.


What I have been opposing from the on start, is not that that they influence mental debelopment and social behaviour, it is your nonsense interpretation of that fact, including the way you claim they do so for their own benefit, which is basically wrong.

They influence development the same way sunlight and water influence germination of a seed. The seed has a working relationship with the sun's rays and water in its environment, they influence its germination and keep influencing its activities as a plant, mind you. They are essential in its biochemical processes. Remember an imbalance of these essential factors can cause damage or impairment to the plant or seed.

This does not mean that they manipulate the processes of the plant for their own benefit. It only means they produce useful things needed in the development of the plant.


So the natural microflora produce useful things needed for our development, does not necessarily mean that they sirectly manipulate us for their own benefit. They are not pathogens.


I'm a good teacher, as you can see. I did not come here to explain scientific information though. It'll cost you next time Sir. Your nonsense ideology has been refuted for good. Come up with something better next time.

Ahhh!

Mr Good Teacher, whose kids are you going to teach that the sun and seeds in the soil have a symbiotic relationship?
Not my kids for sure.

You have exhausted yourself, so lets move this thread along.

It is interesting that you should mention the Sun, and it's influence on biological life, including humans.

Again, the Sun , its activities and it's cycles presents us with yet another instance where our biology, especially gene mutations, hormone regulation, and ultimately, our social lives are not only influenced , but can be said to be regulated by the SUN.

Aside from the visible light, our Sun releases a myriad of electromagnetic energy that influence and regulate our body cell functions. The Sun releases electromagnetic energy that impinge on our endocrine systems, notably the pituitary glands which releases hormones that control several body functions.
As we all know, the Sun produces different cycles of electromagnetic energy from time to time.
As such, it is logically deductable that the different cycles of the Sun's electromagnetic energy not only leave mutational imprints on dividing cells, but also directly influence social behavior through their effects on the pituitary glands.

In fact, a Russian scientist long ago published a paper that shows direct corollation of Sunspot Cycles with famine, plenty, peace, war and the rise and fall of major civilizations in history.

Again, if all above is true, we see once again, that will and volition of man is not free, but is encumbered by natural forces quite beyond his direct control thus far.

Continuing on our focus on the Sun as perhaps the pre-eminent influencer of human social behavior, I present the follwing excerpts;

Higher Solar Wind Speeds and Aggressiveness

Could higher levels of solar wind activity (which is composed of positive ions) be amplifying the effects of metals in the body which are also composed of positive ions? Metals with Positive Ions include: aluminium, barium, manganese and mercury. Source: TABLE of COMMON IONS

It is now a scientifically confirmed fact that Ions affect the Human autonomic nervous system.
Below is a short quote from the study:

"Results from the study were evident chiefly when results from the 34 subjects with a less resilient autonomic nervous system were separately examined. Those whose autonomic nervous systems appeared highly resilient - two-thirds of the total - showed no ion effects. The apparent effects of positive ions included increased tension and irritability as well as a slowing of reaction times. The reaction times were measured in terms of the lag between appearance of a red light and the pressing of a button by the subject." The complete scientific study, done by New York University, can be accessed below:
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1982-05188-001

The autonomic nervous system is independent and beyond the control of our will. The sympathetic nerve is more influenced by positive ions and the parasympathetic nerve by negative ions.

Pihl and associates have addressed the relationship of lead exposure and violent behavior in adults. Hair lead levels from 19 violent criminals were found to be elevated as compared with those of 10 nonviolent criminals.
Pihl RO et al: Hair element content of violent criminals. Can. J. Psychiatry 27:533, 1982.
http://orthomolecular.org/library/articles/webach.shtml

Airborne exposure to manganese, mercury, and particulate matter are associated with increased risk of adjudication.
Source: NIH Study. Exposure to airborne metals and particulate matter and risk for youth adjudicated for criminal activity

Manganese Exposure from Drinking Water and Children’s Classroom Behavior in Bangladesh
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3230445/

The strongest evidence to date that lead exposure increases the frequency of aggressive behaviors comes from the Edinburgh Lead Study which included over 500 children between the ages of 6 and 9. After taking 30 possible confounding variables into account, the investigators still found a significant relationship between the log of blood lead levels and teachers' ratings of the childrens' behavior on an "aggressive/antisocial" scale and on a "hyperactive" scale, but not on a "neurotic" scale.
Study: Thomson GO et al: Blood-lead levels and children's behavior: results from the Edinburgh Lead Study. J. Child Psychol. Psychiatry 30(4):515-28, 1989.

The Toxic Metal connection to ADD, Aggressiveness, Impulsiveness, Violence, Delinquency, Criminality, and Mass murderers/Serial killers B. Windham (Ed) -Chemical Engineer
Studies: http://www.flcv.com/violence.html

The main 2 indicators that cause outbreaks of violence are when the sunspot levels have been dropping for 3 or more days and when there is a rise in the KP index. This is especially so when the sun's solar flux has been at higher than average levels for the past few days. We label this a condition orange on the solar health forecasting page. You can view previous condition orange periods in the solar archives section. There is an instrument panel you can use to view these indicators real time located at:
http://www.ez3dbiz.com/stress_with%20_collective_un.html or if you are interested in more high technical data, you can visit the toolbox page. You can also view the Condition Color Easy to Identify Table. This chart simplifies the process of understanding the condition cycle currently occuring.

Other resources are also available throughout this page.

The 2 Stages of a Condition Orange

Stage 1 Condition Orange – Higher KP Activity + High Solar Wind speeds above 350. Higher KP activity does not peak within 3 or more days of declining sunspots. Performing a minor condition yellow than the Heart Math exercise afterwards broadcasting unconditional love works extremely well during this time. If the solar wind speeds are below 350, the results from the HeartMath exercises are not as vivid or strong. A stage 1 condition orange is a period of higher stress on the body. This type of stress is known as Geopathic Stress. The same sort of stress you feel if you lived under power lines or next to an area that emitted high frequency waves. This period can also sometimes be conductive to minor psychological disturbances.

Stage 2 Condition Orange - Higher KP Activity + High Solar Wind speeds above 350. KP peaks during day 3 of declining sunspots + high solar winds. A stage 2 condition orange is a period of increased violence, physical danger and terrorism. These acts of violence will impact 7 or more people in a single event. Examples include 911 and the Boston Marathon bombings. For a stage 2 condition orange to occur, there must be solar wind speeds of 350 above with sunspots dropping for 3 or more days in a row with the KP levels reaching a peak during this period. Additional factors that boost the stage 2 condition period include a condition yellow 3 days previously and there have recently been a higher number of S Optical or C Class Flares within the past 10 days. Condition Orange periods also happen to be stronger when the Planetary A index is at higher than average levels.

Both Stage 1 or 2 of these conditions can have both high C or Optical S class solar flares or condition yellows 24 hours to 72 hours before.

What is the Planetary A index? What does it mean?


The Planetary A index is a measurement of how disturbed Earth's magnetic field is. The values vary from 0 to about 400. These deviations are computed from actual deviations measured at a number of geomagnetic observatories based at mid-latitude regions around the world. A value defined as 30 represents minor storm conditions, values over 50 represent major storm conditions and the values greater than 100 represent extremely severe storm conditions. A values are derived from the planetary KP indices. The A index is a summary of daily geomagnetic values, however the KP index is updated every 3 hours. KP values vary from 0 to 9. 5 is a minor storm and 6 is a major storm. Values of 7 or more represent severe storms.

Real Time AP Levels:
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/ftpdir/latest/45DF.txt Visual AP with Database:
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/alerts/a-index.html

Lower or Declining Periods of Sunspot Activity show Less Random Acts of Violence

In this section we will cover the most recent 2 sunspot cycles and show how human behaviour is affected by the activity of sunspot activity. As the sunspot cycle declines, we see less incidences of violent outbursts that affect large numbers of the population, as it increases we see more violence.

Data Reflecting Hypothesis

All shooting incidents come from the Citizens Crime Comission shooting database. Solar Sunspot activity was complied by the International Sunspot Count by MWM with their results in image format listed on this page.

* From the years 1993 to 1996, a period of declining and lower sunspot activity, there were only 3 reported mass incidents.
*The next increasing period of sunspot activity was from 1997 to 2001. There were 8 reports of mass shootings during this period.
* Between 2004 and 2007, a lower period of sunspot activity, there were only 5 incidents.

Image #1 Below


The Arab spring uprising began during our current increase in sunspot numbers. This peak will be reached by late 2014 at the latest, when we can expect a decline in worldwide conflict, and a time of increasing stability among nations. The real danger at this point in solar activity is twofold. If the crisis in the middle east spreads, it could very well turn into a worldwide conflict, one scenario being Russia,. China or both nations object to an invasion of Iran or continued encroaching U.S. Troops close to their borders. The 2nd danger is worldwide monetary collapse. This would mean the U.S. Dollar would either go through a ,reset period where the debt was forgiven or it would lead to a completely new type of monetary system. Whatever the outcome, we can expect things to rapidly and radically change over the next 2 years. Hopefully these changes are going to lead towards more accountability for our elected officials and the understanding that increased sunspot cycles make an excellent gauge to hear the public out, and make beneficial changes that benefit all classes and social circles in our society.

Our research has also shown that prolonged condition purples(3 days or more) cause outbreaks of violent behavior. Condition purple periods are when the solar activity goes "FLAT" or quiet. As will be demonstrated later on in this article, the sun's energy or sunlight hours start decreasing after the June summer solstice, and our research has shown that this time of year more violence occurs. So this proves that when overall solar activity starts decreasing, especially when sunspot levels start decreasing, which we at ez3dbiz.com call a "condition purple" period, it leads to an increased risk of outbreaks of violent behavior. What is most interesting is that after 2014, we are going to see a huge decline in solar activity, so this will be one of the most critical periods to watch for major events. Hopefully, and I believe, that this cycle will pass on to a new brighter period of growth for earth and its people.

A condition color is strongest during the first 24 to 48 hours. This means that a recent condition orange or purple has the most pronounced effects, especially if it around a new moon period. What is most interesting is that condition purples do not harbor as many fatalities as a condition orange. So in summary, we can expect violent shootings and violence to occur during a condition purple period, but with fewer victims.

* Moving onto the next sunspot cycle (sunspot cycle #24 shown below), which started increasing in 2008 and will peak between 2012 and 2013, we have 10 incidents so far. There is a possibility of more incidents from June until December 2013. Hopefully this trend will not show itself, but historical data makes it hard to think otherwise.

Image #2 Below


Into the Future

There are 2 things that resonate closest to the suns energy
1: Human Emotion
2: Computers. During the 2000 peak solar cycle there was a huge Internet boom. During our current solar cycle (2013) there has been a huge social networking boom, which also is making huge changes in societal structure. So I can easily predict the power of social networking will be replaced by 2025, the next peak of the solar cycle. So it will be interesting to watch for the emergence of a new form of computerized media that will change societal structure again during 2025.

Image #3 Below

Getting back to studying seasonal trends and violence affecting large numbers of the population, we find that the majority of these incidents take place just after the June summer solstice lating until the December Solstice. From this we conclude that during increasing solar activity, the effects of this higher energy can create more mental imbalances in disturbed individuals, who carry out random acts of violence against the public.

We can clearly see that during a low period of sunspot activity, mass shootings take place after the June Solstice, which is a time of decreasing sun strength, as well as days of longer darkness (less hours of daylight), with another peak occuring during the months of April. These are all periods of the year when the suns activity has peaked, April being the peak or first increase in solar activity after the Feb/March Equinox and again after the peak of visible daylight at the June Summer solstice (the period where the suns light starts waning until it emerges again at the December solstice). For some individuals, it ushers in a period where more personal frustrations occur more than usual due to coping with situations and results that were successful before, no longer are getting the results they used to.

We also see this pattern/formation of solar activity clearly mentioned in the bible.
"One miracle occurs when the sun is in Gemini. This occurs just before the summer solstice. 1.The sun heals a Man with a Withered Hand (Matt. 12:10). So far we have twelve miracles occurring at the time of the year when daylight hours are increasing and when they exceed nighttime hours. From now on daylight starts to decrease. This was seen as a battle between the sun and the dark forces."
Source Courtesy of U.S. Bible.com
With the exception of the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York City, the rest of this page goes into detail about what causes the motivation and how earth's geomagnetic activity is partly involved. We will cover the dates from shooting events that occurred during the period 2007 to 2012, a period of rising and increasing sunspot activity.


Major Incidents Affecting Large Numbers of the Human Population

World War 1. World War 1 started on July 28, 1914 (AT THE RISING PERIOD OF SUNSPOT ACTIVITY) and ended on November 11th 1918, just before the peak of sunspot activity.
World War 2. Began September 1, 1939 (AT THE PEAK OF ANOTHER SUNSPOT CYCLE), when Germany invaded Poland. It ended on September 2, 1945 with the surrender of Japan during a decline in sunspots.
The Khmer Rouge. This massacre lead by Pol Pot began in 1970 (AT THE PEAK OF SUNSPOT ACTIVITY) and ended in 1979, during a decline in sunspots.

Image #4 Below


Stalins great terror began September 1936, a time of increasing sunspot numbers and ended in 1938, at the small decline in sunspots.

So we can conclude that rising or peaking periods of solar activity lead to major events negatively affecting the human population.

If you want to see each and every conflict between nations, this excellent paper shows each conflict around each sunspot cycle. Backp Link:
http://www.ez3dbiz.com/violence_and_sunspots.pdf
What is most interesting is that great monetary depressions, where large scale financial establishments are "wiped out" occur during flat sunspot periods.

Sunspots and the Great Depression

Because sunspots have a motivational/stimulative effect, during declines when sunspot activity has peaked, especially when the cycle before has been stronger, we get depressions in the monetary system. As the chart below shows, the last great depression began at a low of sunspot activity in 1933. We are about to experience another dramatic low starting around 2014, peaking to as low as 4.1 sunspots during December 2019.

The 2008 Stock Market Crash. If you look at the image above titled Sunspot Solar Cycle 24, you will see that we had the market crash in the United States, which occurred during September 2008, a peak low period of sunspot activity.

Future Sunspot Levels: http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/ftpdir/weekly/Predict.txt

Image #5 Below


The 1973-1975 recession was another depression in the markets. These all take up the same pattern. They all occur during a lower sunspot cycle that was higher than the previous sunspot cycle. As we can see in Image #4, the 1970 sunspot cycle was lower than the 1960 sunspot cycle. As we can see in Image#3, the sunspot cycle in 2000, was lower than the previous sunspot cycle (called sunspot cycle 22), and we can see in Image #4 and Image #5, the great depression also began at a sunspot cycle that was lower, than the previous one.

Looking Ahead into the Future

According to Image #3, between 2025 and 2030 there will be another great depression, if nothing is done about our monetary fiscal fiasco. This occurs because sunspot cycle #25 is much, much lower than any other cycle since the 1940's.

So in conclusion, when the last sunspot cycle peaked higher before the current one, as soon as the current sunspot cycle reaches its new low, it becomes a period of major financial crises, usually followed by war. Hopefully by 2025, we will be educated enough as a species to make prudent changes so that history does not repeat itself.

Sunspots, Confidence and Perception

During higher periods of solar activity, which can last up to 5 years) and condition blue periods,which last for a few days, belief in oneself is more prevalent. It means more people in the general population have the belief that they have the capability to succeed at something or a stronger feeling of certainty they have about something. They feel quite certain that they can achieve success.

Now, I could go on and on with these researched materials, but I do think that point should be pretty obvious to anyone reading the
materials.
It is either all the above material are just some people's fertile imaginations, or they are the products of years of diligent scientific research.

If you accept all of the above, then it is quite obvious that Sunspot cycles basically control human biological functions, human neurological functions, and ultimately human social behavior and human civilization.

Once again, we see that human free will and volition are not so free afterall.


Is anyone surprised why the wise ancients worshiped the Sun, our most visible proxy of power in the universe, and from whence comes life?

Counterbalance:

The value of believing in free will: encouraging a
belief in determinism increases cheating.
Vohs KD, et al. Show all
Psychol Sci. 2008 Jan;19(1):49-54. doi:
10.1111/j.1467-9280.2008.02045.x.
Abstract
Does moral behavior draw on a belief in free
will? Two experiments examined whether
inducing participants to believe that human
behavior is predetermined would encourage
cheating. In Experiment 1, participants read
either text that encouraged a belief in
determinism (i.e., that portrayed behavior as the
consequence of environmental and genetic
factors) or neutral text. Exposure to the
deterministic message increased cheating on a
task in which participants could passively allow
a flawed computer program to reveal answers to
mathematical problems that they had been
instructed to solve themselves. Moreover,
increased cheating behavior was mediated by
decreased belief in free will. In Experiment 2,
participants who read deterministic statements
cheated by overpaying themselves for
performance on a cognitive task; participants
who read statements endorsing free will did not.
These findings suggest that the debate over free
will has societal, as well as scientific and
theoretical, implications.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18181791/?i=5&from=/22579497/related

And again:

Reducing self-control by weakening belief in free
will.
Rigoni D, et al. Show all
Conscious Cogn. 2012 Sep;21(3):1482-90. doi:
10.1016/j.concog.2012.04.004. Epub 2012 May
9.
Abstract
Believing in free will may arise from a biological
need for control. People induced to disbelieve in
free will show impulsive and antisocial
tendencies, suggesting a reduction of the
willingness to exert self-control. We investigated
whether undermining free will affects two aspects
of self-control: intentional inhibition and
perceived self-control. We exposed participants
either to anti-free will or to neutral messages.
The two groups (no-free will and control) then
performed a task that required self-control to
inhibit a prepotent response. No-free will
participants showed less intentional inhibitions
than controls, suggesting a reduction of self-
control. We assessed perceived self-control by
asking participants whether the response resulted
from a deliberate intention or from an impulsive
reaction. Perceived self-control was lower in the
no-free will group than in control group. Our
findings show that undermining free will can
degrade self-control and provide insights into
how disbelieving in free will leads to antisocial
tendencies.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22579497/

A related side note (a bit long, for the voracious reader):

http://www.counterbalance.org/evp-mind/reduc-frame.html

The thrust of this Op is definitely not that things are predetermined or predestined to occur in the universe.
No.
I certainly do not believe or accept the concept of predestination.

And yes, I agree completely that believing and accepting the concept of predestination would tend to make people take less responsibility for their lives and actions. History attests to that.

I have stated severally on this forum that man is the master of his destiny.
Though this might seem like a contradiction of this op, it is actually not.

Humans have advanced mental faculties that have, over the course of evolution, been cultivated, molded and honed, especially over the past several centuries, to help manipulate their environment to suit their desires.

This op is about freewill and free volition.
I repeat again that we do have a will and volition, but that they are not free.

To have a freewill would mean a will totally unencumbered by any forces beyond the control of the will, be it evolutionary, genetic, physiological, celestial or social.
To have a freewill is to have a will completely impervious to the forces of nature that surreptiously, but powerfully influence our decision-making processes.

So far, I have attempted to point out how our biological and social behavior are under the surreptious influence of 100 trillion microbes in our body.
I have also shown that our biology, our neurological and social behavior are also under the direct influence of solar and geomagnetic activities.
As we move along, I will also attempt to show how our biological and social evolution (Social Darwinism) pretty well influences and shapes our will and volitions.

plaetton:

To have a freewill would mean a will totally unencumbered by any forces beyond the control of the will, be it evolutionary, genetic, physiological, celestial or social.
To have a freewill is to have a will completely impervious to the forces of nature that surreptiously, but powerfully influence our decision-making processes.

This is just one way of looking at freewill which would be the incompatibilist version. There are other versions of freewill. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:

Historically, the constraint of dominant
concern has been determinism of some
variety (such as logical, nomological, or
theological), so the most prominent common
positions are named for the relation they hold
to exist between free will and determinism.
Those who define free will as freedom from
determinism are called incompatibilists, as
they hold determinism to be incompatible with
free will. The two main incompatibilist
positions are metaphysical libertarianism , the
claim that determinism is false and thus free
will is at least possible; and hard
determinism , the claim that determinism is
true and thus free will is not possible. Hard
incompatibilism posits that indeterminism is
also incompatible with free will, and thus
either way free will is not possible.
Those who define free will otherwise, without
reference to determinism, are called
compatibilists , because they hold determinism
to be compatible with free will. Some
compatibilists hold even that determinism is
necessary for free will, arguing that choice
involves preference for one course of action
over another, a process that requires some
sense of how choices will turn out. [5][6]
Compatibilists thus consider the debate
between libertarians and hard determinists
over free will vs determinism a false dilemma .
[7] Different compatibilists offer very different
definitions of what free will even means,
taking different types of constraints to be
relevant to the issue; but because all agree
that determinism is not the relevant concern,
they are traditionally grouped together under
this common name.

You will need to also address the other versions of freewill as you continue because it will be incomplete if you do not attempt to.

LordReed:

This is just one way of looking at freewill which would be the incompatibilist version. There are other versions of freewill. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:

Historically, the constraint of dominant
concern has been determinism of some
variety (such as logical, nomological, or
theological), so the most prominent common
positions are named for the relation they hold
to exist between free will and determinism.
Those who define free will as freedom from
determinism are called incompatibilists, as
they hold determinism to be incompatible with
free will. The two main incompatibilist
positions are metaphysical libertarianism , the
claim that determinism is false and thus free
will is at least possible; and hard
determinism , the claim that determinism is
true and thus free will is not possible. Hard
incompatibilism posits that indeterminism is
also incompatible with free will, and thus
either way free will is not possible.
Those who define free will otherwise, without
reference to determinism, are called
compatibilists , because they hold determinism
to be compatible with free will. Some
compatibilists hold even that determinism is
necessary for free will, arguing that choice
involves preference for one course of action
over another, a process that requires some
sense of how choices will turn out. [5][6]
Compatibilists thus consider the debate
between libertarians and hard determinists
over free will vs determinism a false dilemma .
[7] Different compatibilists offer very different
definitions of what free will even means,
taking different types of constraints to be
relevant to the issue; but because all agree
that determinism is not the relevant concern,
they are traditionally grouped together under
this common name.

You will need to also address the other versions of freewill as you continue because it will be incomplete if you do not attempt to.

I don't know other versions of freewill other than commonsense definition commonly arising from religious beliefs.

Religionist, and Nkwankwo push the position that god almighty made everything, including humans, perfect, and that early on in the wee hours of human life, man used his freewill and volition to spoil everything that the almighty god had planned.

Beyond the realms of fairy tales, this position should not be taken seriously.

Even with all that we know today about the universe and about ourselves in this modern time, man's will and volition are hardly free, let alone at the beginning of human life, when man knew nothing.

Man has never had the luxury of a freewill unencumbered by his Darwinian evolutionary forces, his biology, Solar , celestial and geomagnetic forces, etc etc.

I cannot make the thrust of my argument any simpler, or more complicated than that.

plaetton:

I don't know other versions of freewill other than commonsense definition commonly arising from religious beliefs.

Religionist, and Nkwankwo push the position that god almighty made everything, including humans, perfect, and that early on in the wee hours of human life, man used his freewill and volition to spoil everything that the almighty god had planned.

Beyond the realms of fairy tales, this position should not be taken seriously.

Even with all that we know today about the universe and about ourselves in this modern time, man's will and volition are hardly free, let alone at the beginning of human life, when man knew nothing.

Man has never had the luxury of a freewill unencumbered by his Darwinian evolutionary forces, his biology, Solar , celestial and geomagnetic forces, etc etc.

I cannot make the thrust of my argument any simpler, or more complicated than that.

This seems to be a failing of yours. You bring science and when countered with science you fall back to either using common sense or anti-religion as a shield. What is beyond comprehension in what I posted? And what part of it is religious?

Freewill has a broader definition than what you call common sense definition. If you are not going to deal with it broadly than it is obvious you are creating a strawman argument; taking the path of least resistance just because you feel your argument will crumble under the assault. Be strong enough to admit you need to take a second look at things, no one here is winning any prizes.

LordReed:

This seems to be a failing of yours. You bring science and when countered with science you fall back to either using common sense or anti-religion as a shield. What is beyond comprehension in what I posted? And what part of it is religious?

Freewill has a broader definition than what you call common sense definition. If you are not going to deal with it broadly than it is obvious you are creating a strawman argument; taking the path of least resistance just because you feel your argument will crumble under the assault. Be strong enough to admit you need to take a second look at things, no one here is winning any prizes.

And this seems to a common pattern of yours; arguing just for the sake of arguing.
PLEASE sir, if you have an argument to make, make it and stop the rigmarole.
I have made mine based on what is already, not on anything controversial.

Please enlighten us anything that contradicts all that I written above.
And please desist from falsehoods. What science have you offered to counter any point that presented so far?

I have nooo idea about you posted above, and what branch of science it comes from.
It is certainly not a crime say so.

So kindly break it for us in the most simple language,, and let everyone see for themselves how it relates to my points, and how it contradicts them.

Thank you.

^^^
When I make a post, I eagerly expect a strong counter argument so that a robust and enriching debate ensues, not potshots.
Asking someone to prove this or prove that is not an argument. If you are up to it, feel free to dismantle every point I have made.

One should learn to counter opinion with a much better grounded opinion, and to counter facts with superior and uptodate facts.
This simple rule make discussions and debates less rancorous.

plaetton:

And this seems to a common pattern of yours; arguing just for the sake of arguing.
PLEASE sir, if you have an argument to make, make it and stop the rigmarole.
I have made mine based on what is already, not on anything controversial.

Please enlighten us anything that contradicts all that I written above.
And please desist from falsehoods. What science have you offered to counter any point that presented so far?

I have nooo idea about you posted above, and what branch of science it comes from.
It is certainly not a crime say so.

So kindly break it for us in the most simple language,, and let everyone see for themselves how it relates to my points, and how it contradicts them.

Thank you.

I have not posted anything controversial neither am I rigmarolling, my post was very clear, the definition of freewill in philosophy is not only what you stated. There are other definitions of freewill which take into account the influences you have mentioned. If you are going to treat the subject of freewill you should take into account the other definitions of freewill. Not doing so shows you have a shallow grasp of what you are talking about.

LordReed:

I have not posted anything controversial neither am I rigmarolling, my post was very clear, the definition of freewill in philosophy is not only what you stated. There are other definitions of freewill which take into account the influences you have mentioned. If you are going to treat the subject of freewill you should take into account the other definitions of freewill. Not doing so shows you have a shallow grasp of what you are talking about.

Now, kindly use the other definitions of freewill that you know to make a robust counter argument to all that I have made so far.
That's what you are required to do.
Don't be shy.

If you can't do that, then your exercise is pointless.

Here is a position on freewill that is different from the one you hold:

Compatibilism is the belief that free will and
determinism are compatible ideas, and that it
is possible to believe both without being
logically inconsistent. [1] Compatibilists believe
freedom can be present or absent in
situations for reasons that have nothing to do
with metaphysics .
For instance, courts of law make judgments
about whether individuals are acting under
their own free will under certain circumstances
without bringing in metaphysics. Similarly,
political liberty is a non-metaphysical
concept. [2] Likewise, compatibilists define free
will as freedom to act according to one's
determined motives without arbitrary hindrance
from other individuals or institutions.

LordReed: Here is a position on freewill that is different from the one you hold:

Compatibilism is the belief that free will and
determinism are compatible ideas, and that it
is possible to believe both without being
logically inconsistent. [1] Compatibilists believe
freedom can be present or absent in
situations for reasons that have nothing to do
with metaphysics .
For instance, courts of law make judgments
about whether individuals are acting under
their own free will under certain circumstances
without bringing in metaphysics. Similarly,
political liberty is a non-metaphysical
concept. [2] Likewise, compatibilists define free
will as freedom to act according to one's
determined motives without arbitrary hindrance
from other individuals or institutions.

Good work sir. But this is not a counter argument yo mine. In fact I agree with it, and was planning of going in this direction much later when I discuss social Darwinism and the social constructs that we have evolved so far, and how it influences free will and free volition.

plaetton: Good work sir. But this is not a counter argument yo mine. In fact I agree with it, and was planning of going in this direction much later when I discuss social Darwinism and the social constructs that we have evolved so far, and how it influences free will and free volition.

I only wanted you to note the broader aspects of freewill when you treat it.

U r a bloody fool

plaetton: YE Are Gods, All Of You, All 100 Trillion Of You. Lol,

To begin , it is my pleasure to take you to the science of microbiology and the incredible and fascinating universe of microbes, aka GERMS.

Many or all of you are walking about gallantly calling yourself Mr. A or Mrs. B, Muskeeto, Deepsight, MNwankwo, Anony, etc., branding yourself as intelligent self-conscious humans, god's perfect work. Deepsight and many others even see humans as beings with a divine provenance.

Well, I have some bad news for you all.
You are neither of the above.
You are just a 185kg plus or minus clump of bacteria colony, deluding yourself that you are human , special and divine.


There are about 100 trillion microbes in the average human body.
Microbes outnumber our body cells by about 10 to 1.
The Microbial DNA in our body outnumber our human DNA by about a factor of 100. In other words, we have a second genome very active within our body.
The implications of these facts are very far-reaching.
One, it means that we are more than 90% microbes and less than 10% human.
We are all walking bacteria colonies.

Babies are born bacteria sterile, but are innoculated by their mother's microbial flora at the moment of birth. So, when the bible says that we are all born in SIN, maybe the authors were referring to the bacterial flora that takes over the body immediately after birth. Abi?

Our body is an entire ecosystem of diverse species and cultures of microbes. The most prominent and influential of these bacteria cultures are the ones that reside in our guts, our stomach linings.

Many diseases have their origins in the gut flora, and more and more are being discovered to be associated with the disturbances of the gut flora.

Hold on to your hat, here comes the kicker.

Studies of bacteria and other microbes show convincingly that microbes have social structures and social behavior.
Yes!
In their relatively miniscule lifespan, they exhibit behaviors that we are all familiar with.
They have Rural areas, urban areas, and metropolis. They have haves and have-nots, they have wars of aggression, wars of self-defence and also peace times. In short, they have similar social structures and constructs with all the contradictions and conflicts that we humans have.
Isn't that very interesting and scary ?

Now to the scary stuff.

The gut flora influences brain development and behavior, social behavior for that matter . They influence our body chemistry to satisfy their whims.
The domain of influence of these microbes on our lives include brain development, learning, unlearning, likes and dislikes, sexual preferences, risk tolerance, addictive and compulsive behaviors, our cultures, and of course, subsequently the rise and fall of civilizations.
Yup.

So now, I ask you: Who is really in charge? Who is the grand puppet master of your life? You or the 100 Trillions gods in your body?

You are not an independent free thinker. No sir/madame.
The behavioral edits of your microbial overlords are mainly responsible for the attitudes and events that shape your life and human civilization.
Not any Big Papa in the sky.Nope.

We are all simply mouthpieces, spokespersons, PR managers for the noisy and often discordant parliaments of our microbial gods.

With profound apologies and deep respect, I doubt I have ever read this much sttupidity in my life.
Carry on!

It will get you every where. After all its just mindless chemical reactions in ya head abi. That absolves you of everything as well.
You are therefore free.

DeepSight:

With profound apologies and deep respect, I doubt I have ever read this much sttupidity in my life.
Carry on!

It will get you every where. After all its just mindless chemical reactions in ya head abi. That absolves you of everything as well.
You are therefore free.

You sir, have an odd way of giving a compliment.