In scripture we come across several instances of God’s chosen ascending heaven, for instance the ascension of Enoch (in the pre-Christian books of Enoch). The Prophet Elijah taken up (2 Kings2) and of other pious men. In the Talmud we are regaled to the story of the journey of the “Four” to Paradise. We know that these stories are meant to be taken literally and not allegorically.

One of the more celebrated instances in the Old scriptures and equally important for Kabbalists is the Chariot Arcana, which an old school of Jewish Mysticism modelled entirely after the biblical mythology of the Chariot, called Merkavah or Merkabah. The Merkabah, or Chariot of God, is the vision Ezekiel had of the Flaming Pillars borne aloft by Four Holy Creatures (Hayoth Ha-Kodesh- aligned with Kether and the Archangel Metatron, or Thaumiel and Kings Satan and Moloch).

Both Mishna and Talmud show that, in the first century of the common era, esoteric traditions existed within these areas, we know from Josephus that the Essenes possessed a literature which was both magical and angelogical in content. His silence concerning their apocalyptic ideas can be understood as his desire to conceal this aspect of contemporary Judaism from his (uninitiated readers). It is in apocalyptic literature that we find the first appearance of ideas of a specifically mystical character, reserved for the so-called elect. The discovery of the literary remains of the Qumran sect show that such ideas found a home among them. They possessed the original Book of Enoch, both in Hebrew and Aramaic.

In Jewish antiquity, the mystical practice (through Kabbalah) of seeking heavenly ascension was common. To the dismay of the priestly authorities the practise had become widespread in much the same way as today, a “Man of God” will routinely and off-handedly claim “God has declared to him” therefore severe limitations were placed on public discussion of such subjects, the priestly caste declared amongst others: 'The story of Creation should not be expounded before two persons, nor the chapter on the Chariot before one person, unless he is a sage and already has an independent understanding on the matter.'

In the hypothetical conversation that takes place between Jesus and Nicodemus in the NT Gospel of John, the author, reflecting the times, has Jesus state:

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The admonishments did little to curtail Jewish mysticism. Extremely rare Jewish writings tell of Rabbi’s who could “breathe life” into a figure upon uttering several combinations of the names of God, there were others who it was written of could ascend heaven, engage in a heavenly council to discuss matters of great importance to the world and return..

One of the most notorious accounts in Rabbinical writings is that of heretical Rabbi Elisha ben Abuyah, referred to forever more as “Aher” or “other one” The stories in rabbinic literature concerning Elisha are devastating, the Babylonian Talmud tells us he ascended heaven and saw the divine angel “Metatron” seated and recording the deeds of the children of Israel, he then inquired if there were two gods in heaven. It is said, the angels took out “Metatron” and gave him forty lashes with a “fiery rod” to prove to Elisha that “Metatron” was just an angel and not God, therefore there was no duality in heaven.

The Jerusalem Talmud states that Elisha murdered a scholar, enticed the young from studying Torah, and informed against Jews during the Hadrianic persecution (Hagigah II:1; 15a). Elisha penetrated the innermost secret recesses of religion and "cut the shoots," that is, perverted the teachings and traditions. We are told that Greek songs did not cease from his mouth and, when Elisha rose to leave the schoolhouse, many heretical books fell from his lap (J.T., Hag. 15b).

Many Rabbinical and Biblical scholars have made the point that it is the Excommunicated and Jewish apostate Elisha who is actually the Christian “Apostle Paul”. Whether or not this is true, there is no doubting that Paul himself was no stranger to these practices, the experience of his conversion story is synonymous with the experience of Elisha and he goes further to say..

I knew a man in Christ above (Ten and Four) years ago, (whether in the Body I cannot tell; or whether out of the Body I cannot tell; God knoweth); such a one CAUGHT UP TO THE THIRD HEAVEN...

Further, we see Paul alluding to the Essene Book of Enoch, in which is found a description of Enoch's ascent to the Third Heaven.

And Paradise is between corruptibility and incorruptibility. (1 Corinthians 15:54-58).

Paul, like Elisha in a moment of ecstasy beheld the interior of heaven— in both cases, with the effect that they destroyed the plants of the heavenly garden.

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Wow...
Doesn't this go against the OT, about the Ascension of Enoch and Elisha,
And doesn't this go against the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, of which Abraham was said to be in heaven?

jupiterx:
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Wow...
Doesn't this go against the OT, about the Ascension of Enoch and Elisha,
And doesn't this go against the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, of which Abraham was said to be in heaven?

It certainly does!

jupiterx:
And no man hath ascended up to heaven,
but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Wow...
Doesn't this go against the OT, about the Ascension of Enoch and Elisha,
And doesn't this go against the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, of which Abraham was said to be in heaven?

So you've believed Enoch and Elijah ascended into heaven. Right?

I know you're aware of the distinction between a parable and reality. Right?

So which of the heavens are you basing your wow upon?

MuttleyLaff:
So you've believed Enoch and Elijah ascended into heaven. Right?

I know you're aware of the distinction between a parable and reality. Right?

So which of the heavens are you basing your wow upon?

Bro how should I know na,
Since you know explain that the bible meant by 'Enoch walked with God and was not' ,
And explain the chariot of fire taking away Elisha.
As for the parable of the rich man, Christians take it ad proof that Abraham is in heaven,
Or what is the real story
Cc sarassin