dorox:
I hope you don't view this tragedy as a numbers game? Even at a grim total of 49 dead, it will still too be many dead.

This is true. Not finger pointing, but I am interested to know if there is likely to be criminal investigations or something like that? Maybe that could explain the preacher's reluctance to speak.

lordsilver:

U go school at all?

The Zuma we are talking abt here is not Zuma Rock up Northern Nigeria, we are talking abt Jacob Zuma, South Afrucan President.

it is a thing of joy to me that an unschooled person like me can write what a prof like u read and responded to. but from where did zuma get that if official number from the site is far lesser?

kendo101:

You think SA is like Nigeria that doesn't care about their citizens. What's the use of embassies? When ppl arrive other countries, their ppl there take record and monitor their stay in the foreign country. But as for Nigerian Government, they don't give a dam*. They don't even know the number of Nigerians abroad.

does it that all those that traveld from sa died? knowing how many that sa does not mean knowing how many died in that accident from sa.

Chigold101: it is a thing of joy to me that an unschooled person like me can write what a prof like u read and responded to. but from where did zuma get that if what official number from the site is far lesser?

Lol

Ok, the question was asked in South Africa too. It seems the people that helped to come up with the number were the South African organizers of the trip as well as the SA mission in Nigeria. But still, they did say caution is required. They emphasised that. Fair question. I say let's wait.

Chigold101: does it that all those that traveld from sa died? knowing how many that sa does not mean knowing how many died in that accident from sa.

Approximately 300 South Africans travelled. They were accommodated at the guesthouse that collapsed. Those that were not hurt are back in SA, according to reports. Some injured are in hospital in Nigeria. The SA experts will help the families identify the dead. SA said the families will be flown to lagos. So we will see.

i can see a SAn here saying disgraceful things. Calling those people gullible.

Fact is...this is not time for that. And i think you are just frustrated that your own ppl came down here to Nigeria to seek help. You are worried that Nigerians will use that as a dissing point anytime Naija/SA bashing starts here.

People go where they feel they WILL get help. Healing starts with you believing and having the assurance and confidence that when you go, you will get it! Thats the first step to healing. A man stands a better chance of getting healing from someone who is believed by many to be a healer than just any man of God. The reason is...confidence, which is also an important element of faith and faith is needed for miracles to take place...contd

DieVluit:

Lol

Ok, the question was asked in South Africa too. It seems the people that helped to come up with the number were the South African organizers of the trip as well as the SA mission in Nigeria. But still, they did say caution is required. They emphasised that. Fair question. I say let's wait.

wise people think outside the box. thanks the information

craziebone: i can see a SAn here saying disgraceful things. Calling those people gullible.

Fact is...this is not time for that. And i think you are just frustrated that your own ppl came down here to Nigeria to seek help. You are worried that Nigerians will use that as a dissing point anytime Naija/SA bashing starts here.

People go where they feel they WILL get help. Healing starts with you believing and having the assurance and confidence that when you go, you will get it! Thats the first step to healing. A man stands a better chance of getting healing from someone who is believed by many to be a healer than just any man of God. The reason is...confidence, which is also an important element of faith and faith is needed for miracles to take place...contd

Bro, let freedom of speech reign. Let's please not turn this into a Nigeria/SA thing. Objectively, the people did not get any help. They died. Having said that, they are still human beings and we feel for them. Again, they are free to believe in what they believe in. Just as people like Motlalentoa are also free to believe that this whole thing is silly. It cuts both ways. But the most important thing is that we need to respect the dead. Both Nigerians and South Africans or anyone else that perished. I agree with your main point though, that people go where they feel they will get help.

Chigold101: wise people think outside the box. thanks the information

Cool man. Let's see what happens

craziebone: i can see a SAn here saying disgraceful things. Calling those people gullible.
Fact is...this is not time for that. And i think you are just frustrated that your own ppl came down here to Nigeria to seek help. You are worried that Nigerians will use that as a dissing point anytime Naija/SA bashing starts here.
People go where they feel they WILL get help. Healing starts with you believing and having the assurance and confidence that when you go, you will get it! Thats the first step to healing. A man stands a better chance of getting healing from someone who is believed by many to be a healer than just any man of God. The reason is...confidence, which is also an important element of faith and faith is needed for miracles to take place...contd

Fact of the matter is who ever authorized the additional construction of floors on that building and the contractors employed should be held liable for the unecessary deaths of these people SA or Nigerian. Tomorrow you people will raise your hands and say "na so we see am" or "God knows best"

This is what happens when you don't make anyone accountable for cutting corners or using cheap materials to construct erections that human beings will be living in, church or no church.

TB JOSHUA don silent, Why didn't he predict this one was going to happen


TtsweeeeeeWWW!

contd... There is no point hating on your country men for coming to Naija for healing. They probably visited your hospitals to see if they could get healed but it didn't happen. I am surprised you will take a jab at your country men who were sick and were only looking for how to get well again.

If they got well, who are the ppl who would be happy the most? Are they not their family members who are themselves SAns? Whose economy would they likely put in their good health to make it grow? Isn't it the SA economy? Yet, you are here taking a jab at your country men who were only looking for a way out.

It is regretable for you, @mothlante, to be more concerned about the image of your country over the well being of your citizens.

@die vluit, i am not trying to make this into an SA/Naija bashing thread. On the contrary, i am only pointing out that what Mothlante said can be rather myopic or an outright disrespect to those who died and also the possibility that his taking jab at them could have roots in a desire not to see Nigerians have a dissing point against SA the next time we diss each other.

Unfortunately, these particular set of pilgrims died. But the vast majority of SAns and other nationals that troop to not only SCOAN but also Pst.Chris' Christ Embassy here in Nigeria every year do go back home with testimonies of healing and deliverance. These ppl came with that hope too but unfortunately, things turned out the way it did.

Point i am trying to make is...there is no point saying those ppl are gullible for going to seek miracles where they think they can find it. Just as we Nigerians cant get angry that some Nigerians seek medicare in your own country. It is about ppl's health and as far as they become healthy, thats all that should matter.

nora544:

Which Prophet you mean this pastor, please what you write is a disgrace for a real christian.

Why he didnot post any words on his facebook that he is with the families who lose a love ones there.

If you don't believe that Prophet TB Joshua is verily a Prophet of Almighty God, you don't believe in God. God tells the Prophet so many things so that the Prophet can prophesy to his flock. The Prophet's prophesies have been proven true again and again. There is no doubt that they come from God. Who are you to criticise the Prophet of God?

Matigo: All true prophets of God received various insults and rejections from the people yet did not turn against the people. Some were even killed yet their followers did not insult or curse the people. I mean for no error or faults on the part of the prophets o. But here we are- can you say same in this case? Why cant people air their grieviance whether justified or not. No one can bury the truth forever. He will be vindicated if his hands are clean so, no need to be on the defensive or abuse those who insinuate things.

The Prophet does not need me to defend him. Prophet Joshua is redeemed by God. I'm simply warning Nairalanders to not insult the Prophet to avoid bringing about God's wrath.

delishpot:


Abegi go sidon for gutter. Why did God not include you in that test? How dare you mention Gods name in all these? You can claim and fight anyone that its not a mans fault but you have no fear to say its Gods fault? So you fear and respect the TB Joshua more than God? How dare you mention God in all of this? Did God tell you he decided to kill 60-70 people just to test you?
Shior, servant of Man.

We can't fathom God. God is mystery and beyond our understanding and comprehension. TB Joshua is a Prophet of God. If you don't fear TB Joshua, you don't fear God. If you don't respect TB Joshua, then you don't respect God.

onitshaigbo:
If you don't believe that Prophet TB Joshua is verily a Prophet of Almighty God, you don't believe in God. God tells the Prophet so many things so that the Prophet can prophesy to his flock. The Prophet's prophesies have been proven true again and again. There is no doubt that they come from God. Who are you to criticise the Prophet of God?

Please keep quiet with that God's wrath rubbish, because God has time to come bother you because you cursed out his so called prophet. Meanwhile there are molesting priests, scammers and murderers out there!

Some of you amaze me!

morpheus24:

Fact of the matter is who ever authorized the additional construction of floors on that building and the contractors employed should be held liable for the unecessary deaths of these people SA or Nigerian. Tomorrow you people will raise your hands and say "na so we see am" or "God knows best"

This is what happens when you don't make anyone accountable for cutting corners or using cheap materials to construct erections that human beings will be living in, church or no church.

TB JOSHUA don silent, Why didn't he predict this one was going to happen


TtsweeeeeeWWW!

Nah next week he's going to claim that 3yrs ago he predicted that this was going to happen, its amazing how this guy predicts things after they've happened, and the worst thing is that he and his Church seem to be distancing themselves from this situation.
I highly doubt that any blame is going to be put on the Church or the person who authorised the addition of more floors

morpheus24:

Please keep quiet with that God's wrath rubbish, because God has time to come bother you because you cursed out his so called prophet. Meanwhile there are molesting priests, scammers and murderers out there!

Some of you amaze me!

Nope that is your narrow minded opinion when and where did God ever say that guy is his prophet there is no legitimate proof to back that up, just because you believe it doesn't mean it true, I think you need to get your head examined.

craziebone: @die vluit, i am not trying to make this into an SA/Naija bashing thread. On the contrary, i am only pointing out that what Mothlante said can be rather myopic or an outright disrespect to those who died and also the possibility that his taking jab at them could have roots in a desire not to see Nigerians have a dissing point against SA the next time we diss each other.

Unfortunately, these particular set of pilgrims died. But the vast majority of SAns and other nationals that troop to not only SCOAN but also Pst.Chris' Christ Embassy here in Nigeria every year do go back home with testimonies of healing and deliverance. These ppl came with that hope too but unfortunately, things turned out the way it did.

Point i am trying to make is...there is no point saying those ppl are gullible for going to seek miracles where they think they can find it. Just as we Nigerians cant get angry that some Nigerians seek medicare in your own country. It is about ppl's health and as far as they become healthy, thats all that should matter.

Ok. I hear you on that one.

Centrifude:

Nah next week he's going to claim that 3yrs ago he predicted that this was going to happen, its amazing how this guy predicts things after they've happened, and the worst thing is that he and his Church seem to be distancing themselves from this situation.
I highly doubt that any blame is going to be put on the Church or the person who authorised the addition of more floors

But can't we expect a criminal investigation to see if by-laws and regulation were complied with?

onitshaigbo:

If you don't believe that Prophet TB Joshua is verily a Prophet of Almighty God, you don't believe in God. God tells the Prophet so many things so that the Prophet can prophesy to his flock. The Prophet's prophesies have been proven true again and again. There is no doubt that they come from God. Who are you to criticise the Prophet of God?

There's freedom of religion in the world. Personally, I don't believe in the prophet. I don't believe he can prophesy anything. But anyone who believes in that is free to.

DieVluit:

But can't we expect a criminal investigation to see if by-laws and regulation were complied with?

Well maybe there might be an investigation considering the fact that foreigner were also killed in the accident, but don't for that High ranking official tend to get away with a lot of corruption and crimes in Nigerian, its almost exactly like what happens here in S.A

Centrifude:

Well maybe there might be an investigation considering the fact that foreigner were also killed in the accident, but don't for that High ranking official tend to get away with a lot of corruption and crimes in Nigerian, its almost exactly like what happens here in S.A

They'll have to make a call whether they believe the story about sabotage or the one about irregularities in construction. Either one of those requires an investigation. But whether there will be accountability is a different story. Anyway I found this extract from associated press:

The "steel structures" of the building failed, said Bede Obayi, head of inspection and compliance for the Standard Organisation, a Nigerian state regulatory body. Workers added two floors onto the original four-story structure, according to officials.

"We need to look at whether, because of the number of people needing to be accommodated, they added more floors without looking at the foundation," Obayi said.

His agency is investigating the collapses this year of more than 10 multi story buildings in Nigeria, where corruption in the construction industry sometimes leads contractors to take short cuts and use substandard products.

Another official, Ibrahim Farinloye of the Nigerian Emergency Management Agency, said church representatives had not co-operated, at least initially, with rescuers heading to the site, possibly slowing the effort to find survivors.

Church officials, said by former disciples to exercise tight control over members, have not responded directly to the allegation. On Tuesday, a woman who answered the telephone at the church would not give her name and would only say that the situation was under control.

nora544:

All he make was first it was the plain and when this was not working it was Boko haram but when I see the first video I know that is was the construction of the building, you cannot put on a 2 storey building 4 more storeys, that is not possible.

Nigeria is a country where simple civil engineering structures like reinforced concrete is viewed as rocket science

building collapse is a frequent occurrence because of poor design, poor regulation, greedy professionals etc.

This man Joshua should be prosecuted

Chigold101: it is a thing of joy to me that an unschooled person like me can write what a prof like u read and responded to. but from where did zuma get that if official number from the site is far lesser?

Do u know what it means to be a Chief Excutive of a country?

The fact that u know how to write does not change anything bro.

morpheus24:

Please keep quiet with that God's wrath rubbish, because God has time to come bother you because you cursed out his so called prophet. Meanwhile there are molesting priests, scammers and murderers out there!

Some of you amaze me!

TB joshua is a criminal like al Nigerian pastors, they feed on Nigerians social problem and poverty...

I wonder why advanced countries in Europe and Asia don't really passionately worship God yet they don't social have problem, less corrupt, and live longer than poor Africans jesus followers.

Nigeria and Ghana world most religious countries and thesame time two of the world most corrupt, poor and underdeveloped countries.

I rather live in Buddhist China than live in religious christian/muslim Nigeria

Centrifude:

Nah next week he's going to claim that 3yrs ago he predicted that this was going to happen, its amazing how this guy predicts things after they've happened, and the worst thing is that he and his Church seem to be distancing themselves from this situation.
I highly doubt that any blame is going to be put on the Church or the person who authorised the addition of more floors

no, he doesn't predict events long after they have happened. That you don't believe in him doesn't mean you should tell lies about him. He actually predicts events before they happen and a little research by you will prove that to be true. You can check his prediction on Mutharika, Manawasa, Umar Bongo, michael Jackson etc and you will come to find out that the prediction date predates the actual date of the events.

Is only God that knows the truth. may their soul rest in perfect peace. Amen.Is only God that knows the truth. may their soul rest in perfect peace. Amen.Is only God that knows the truth. may their soul rest in perfect peace. Amen.

DieVluit:

But can't we expect a criminal investigation to see if by-laws and regulation were complied with?

Well maybe there might be an investigation considering the fact that foreigner were also killed in the accident, but don't for that High ranking official tend to get away with a lot of corruption and crimes in Nigerian, its almost exactly like what happens here in S.A

Now our humanitarian organisations were denied entry in the hospitals. The Nigerian government does not have value for human lives.Yet they do not have the resources to handle disasters. I feel sorry for ordinary people in that country. It does not help to be stubborn if nothing wise comes out of it. They want to hide information.

Voicefilter: Now our humanitarian organisations were denied entry in the hospitals. The Nigerian government does not have value for human lives. Yet they do not have the resources to handle disasters. I feel sorry for ordinary people in that country. It does not help to be stubborn if nothing wise comes out of it. They want to hide information.

but they were able to contain ebola...what are you saying?

Voicefilter: Now our humanitarian organisations were denied entry in the hospitals. The Nigerian government does not have value for human lives.Yet they do not have the resources to handle disasters. I feel sorry for ordinary people in that country. It does not help to be stubborn if nothing wise comes out of it. They want to hide information.

Ok, but now how can a church be allowed to chaise rescuers away and basically prevent the saving of lives?


Gift of the Givers chased away from church

Lagos - Gift of the Givers aid workers have been chased away from the scene of a collapsed building in Lagos, Nigeria, and threatened with arrest if they come near the site, the organisation said on Thursday.

“They tried to go to the church, but they were chased away. The authorities there didn't want them to take any information or come near,” said Gift of the Givers founder Imtiaz Sooliman.

“It was like a complete lock-out. They say if you go near the church you will be arrested and charged for like sabotage or something.”

The two representatives from the organisation told Sooliman it had been difficult to get information as there was no co-operation.

A multi-storey guesthouse at the Synagogue Church of All Nations (Scoan) in Lagos collapsed on Friday killing numerous people, including South Africans. President Jacob Zuma said 67 South Africans had been killed.

They were believed to be part of five South African tour groups lodging at the church of faith healer “prophet” TB Joshua.

One South African woman had asked the Gift of the Givers to find her brother who was at Scoan when it collapsed.

“...We requested our representatives in Nigeria to try and trace this family relative and check on the well-being of other fellow South Africans,” said Sooliman.

The two representatives found the man in a hospital called Avon Healthcare.

“He was injured, but we don't know what injuries it was. He was told his sister was looking for him and he phoned her.”

Before the two could look for other South African survivors they were chased out of the hospital.

Sooliman said the National Emergency Management Agency (Nema) had told its representatives in Nigeria that 131 survivors were pulled from the rubble and provided a different death toll - that 63 people had died in total, including the South Africans. ...