Dapo777:


Ok I get ur point.

But u still didn't tackle the question I asked. What offence have babies committed to make them get killed? Let's overlook that ambiguous verse Since u said It's unknown let's consider other verses that God clearly orders the killing of innocent babies.
What is the offence of those babies?
Thanks

No baby committed offence, i said that already from beginning. It's reaping what you sow.It's payback, retribution. Babylon did what they did and were to be paid back. It's a law, it is reality, you reap what you sow. It's not about children offending. If a man is hardworking, he and his would reap the benefits. If a pregnant woman is careless, she and her baby would reap the reward. It's not about what offences the unborn child committed. The child may be born with permanent defects or disabilities or even die. That is the law of cause and effect, sowing and reaping. If a nation is careless and wasteful, it's citizens and future will suffer the consequences. This is reality and you face and use the facts, not play emotional tantrums with them.

Image123:


No baby committed offence, i said that already from beginning. It's reaping what you sow.It's payback, retribution. Babylon did what they did and were to be paid back. It's a law, it is reality, you reap what you sow. It's not about children offending. If a man is hardworking, he and his would reap the benefits. If a pregnant woman is careless, she and her baby would reap the reward. It's not about what offences the unborn child committed. The child may be born with permanent defects or disabilities or even die. That is the law of cause and effect, sowing and reaping. If a nation is careless and wasteful, it's citizens and future will suffer the consequences. This is reality and you face and use the facts, not play emotional tantrums with them.

Ofcourse I know about cause and effect,But the ordering of babies to be killed has Nothing to do with cause and effect,It's pure wickedness at It's peak!!!

Why do Christians like u frown at abortion done by someone yet you defend your Yahweh that orders abortion and murdering of innocent children?
Would you kill ur baby If a pastor ask you to do So,because the Yahweh told the pastor that the baby would be a dangerous person in future more dangerous than osama bin ladin, that was the question I asked u that u ignored.

You see I am not lying against u,It's a difficult question I kn,But don't ignore it, just tell me the truth,u agree that Yahweh is wicked and sadistic.

Dapo777:

Ofcourse I know about cause and effect,But the ordering of babies to be killed has Nothing to do with cause and effect,It's pure wickedness at It's peak!!!

Why do Christians like u frown at abortion done by someone yet you defend your Yahweh that orders abortion and murdering of innocent children?
Would you kill ur baby If a pastor ask you to do So,because the Yahweh told the pastor that the baby would be a dangerous person in future more dangerous than osama bin ladin, that was the question I asked u that u ignored.

You see I am not lying against u,It's a difficult question I kn,But don't ignore it, just tell me the truth,u agree that Yahweh is wicked and sadistic.

i'm skipping a lot of things to try and accommodate you. You totally missed your interpretation of Psalm 137 and that is where my point is. You'd help yourself not to try to subtly move my explanation and posts on that passage to some other passage. It's onestep at a time, look before you leap. Psalm 137 says nothing about any order, is that clear?
Now, Yahweh is God, you're not. The difference is greater than day and night. i wouldn't frown at a judge judging without partiality. However, i'd frown at jungle justice.
On what basis would a pastor ask me to kill anyone? Please, paste the link of where i ignored your question, thanks. Is it biblical for God to tell a pastor to tell me to kill someone because he'd be like Osama bla bla? Or are you just making things up and spinning imaginary questions?
God is not wicked or sadistic, you have a very poor perspective and understanding of Him.

Weah96:


This topic has been discussed here before. Have you heard of the endogenous chemical called dimethyltryptamine?

In addition to that, the girl comes from a family of artistic repute.

so the girl hearg God speakg to her and telling her to draw her visions was as a result of chemicals in her body!?

Image123:


i'm skipping a lot of things to try and accommodate you. You totally missed your interpretation of Psalm 137 and that is where my point is. You'd help yourself not to try to subtly move my explanation and posts on that passage to some other passage. It's onestep at a time, look before you leap. Psalm 137 says nothing about any order, is that clear?
Now, Yahweh is God, you're not. The difference is greater than day and night. i wouldn't frown at a judge judging without partiality. However, i'd frown at jungle justice.
On what basis would a pastor ask me to kill anyone? Please, paste the link of where i ignored your question, thanks. Is it biblical for God to tell a pastor to tell me to kill someone because he'd be like Osama bla bla? Or are you just making things up and spinning imaginary questions?
God is not wicked or sadistic, you have a very poor perspective and understanding of Him.

HahahahahaHahahahaha,So When Yahweh sent Samuel to tell Saul to kill every amalekite, it wasn't Biblical Abi?
Was Samuel not a man of God? Was it not God that told Samuel to tell Saul to kill every amalekites including their infants? So If that isn't Biblical according to you,why is it in the Bible?

Let me see your answer to that.

Weah96:


This topic has been discussed here before. Have you heard of the endogenous chemical called dimethyltryptamine?

In addition to that, the girl comes from a family of artistic repute.

the girl strted paintg @ 4 and is self taught. How does skill transfer down from her ancestors?

2. She drew pictures of Jesus.
How does tht correlate with her artistc talent- does her arts skills make her religious?

3. Todd burpo, the child who saw heaven, testified tht her paintg of Jesus resembled the real Jesus. Other paintgs of Jesus didnt match. Todd was a child and had never met this girl neither.

..

.

asalimpo:


the girl strted paintg @ 4 and is self taught. How does skill transfer down from her ancestors?

2. She drew pictures of Jesus.
How does tht correlate with her artistc talent- does her arts skills make her religious?

3. Todd burpo, the child who saw heaven, testified tht her paintg of Jesus resembled the real Jesus. Other paintgs of Jesus didnt match. Todd was a child and had never met this girl neither.

1.Her mother is a painter and her art bears her style of art...
2.have you seen jesus to know what the mythological man may have been thought up as?
3.Really? what benefit besides public attention and monetary gains would they have gained?and so you just take their word that they haven't met before like criss angel also interviews his "random" audiences? also did you know her mother never allowed her to paint in front of a camera but doctored a video to the public...?

LETS EVEN LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE HERE.....IS ART AND DREAMS THE BEST EVIDENCES FOR "GOD" WHEN BILLIONS ARE DYING OF STARVATION IN AFRICA?....."OMNISCIENT DIETY" GIVES MOZART PRODIGY INSTEAD OF FOOD TO THE WORLD

Dapo777:
@braveguy what excuses have I made ooo?
I ask questions When i am not clear of things.

I understand that that Babylon's baby could be symbolic, Ok let's leave that verse Since It's not talking about actual babies and let's look at other verses Where God clearly commands d killing of babies.
What is the offence of those babies killed?
Thanks!

To be honest, I really don't want to engage on this matter anymore, however, you cited the matters of babies and I will be answer to answer to the extent I know and understand.

You cited the case of where Samuel asked Saul to exterminate the Amalekites including their babies and animals. Very good scenario.

As was mentioned earlier, do you also know that it was a case of cause and effect? Do you think that was the genesis of that matter? Let me take you back in history. I will try to be as brief as possible.

Who was Amalek? Amalek was a cousin (or nephew) to Israel. See Genesis 36:12.
What was the sin of Amalek? See Deuterionomy 25:17-18
"Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt; How he met thee by the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary; and he feared not God."

As Israel travelled back to the Promised Land, out of unnecessary fear and in cowardice, Amalek, attacked Israel, not in a proper war, but targeted the feeble travellers of Israel.

Today, when Boko Haram strikes, you shout and condemn their acts of cowardice at picking soft targets, isn't it? Amalek did worse, they targeted and attacked TRAVELLERS and worse still, these were their cousins!

Besides, Israel was God's son. If your son of few months was mercilessly attacked right under your nose for no just cause what would you do, be laughing and encouraging the attacker or stand up to the bully? God stood up against the bully!

But what about the children (babies) of the bullies?

It was better that they were eliminated, which is 100% righteous. Why?

The way you and I view death is different from the way God views it. When a person is dead and people still want to kick or beat the dead person, does he feel anything? No. Only the person doing the beating or kicking is having an emotional fulfilment. Which would you prefer:
1. The babies become parentless and dies miserably of hunger and care.
or
2. The babies managed to survive and learning of the revenge of Israel decide to take their piece of revenge - making an endless cycle of war.
or
3. They are killed and in their innocence go to be with their Maker?

While it may be a lot of Bible explanations to explore, children who have not reached the age of accountability have no case to answer before God for sin. They have NO understanding of what they are doing. So, if a child dies, he goes straight to be with God.

Death is NOT the final destination of man, it is a passage to another life. I believe that it would be better for the children's life to be terminated here and go to a better eternal place than to grow up with bitterness as a result of the punishment for the sins of their fathers.

Lastly, do you know the meaning of Amalek? Amalek represents City of the World whereas Israel represents City of God. Amalek is an embodiment of the lack of fear of God, it represents pure evil or sheer wickedness.

As I have said previously in my other posts, it is a VERY dangerous thing to reach conclusions without the full facts. It is important to generate as much facts as possible before making conclusions.

I would like to stop there.

Dapo777:


HahahahahaHahahahaha,So When Yahweh sent Samuel to tell Saul to kill every amalekite, it wasn't Biblical Abi?
Was Samuel not a man of God? Was it not God that told Samuel to tell Saul to kill every amalekites including their infants? So If that isn't Biblical according to you,why is it in the Bible?

Let me see your answer to that.

You've gracelessly accepted you were wrong about Psalm 137? You forgot to paste the link to where i ignored your question?
You asked about a pastor asking me to kill MY baby and i asked on what basis? You also mentioned stuff about becoming like Osama? All these have no link with the account you're trying to hang them on in 1Samuel.You've demonstrated very poor, vague and twisted knowledge of the bible thus far. You should be more careful and less assertive as regards what is biblical or not biblical.

You want to know why God told king Saul to exterminate the Amalekites. It has being told you, and i would also tell you why either the long way or short way. But you know what we're doing? We're plucking leaves as against pulling out the roots of a tree. Thanks be to God, i can conveniently do the two. It's up to you what you really want.

Image123:


You've gracelessly accepted you were wrong about Psalm 137? You forgot to paste the link to where i ignored your question?
You asked about a pastor asking me to kill MY baby and i asked on what basis? You also mentioned stuff about becoming like Osama? All these have no link with the account you're trying to hang them on in 1Samuel.You've demonstrated very poor, vague and twisted knowledge of the bible thus far. You should be more careful and less assertive as regards what is biblical or not biblical.

You want to know why God told king Saul to exterminate the Amalekites. It has being told you, and i would also tell you why either the long way or short way. But you know what we're doing? We're plucking leaves as against pulling out the roots of a tree. Thanks be to God, i can conveniently do the two. It's up to you what you really want.

You still haven't answered the question. I wonder how u pass ur exam.

Let me repeat the question.

Is it right for babies to be killed even If their parents are evil?

Couldn't the Israelites adopt the children as theirs rather than kill them? Those children won't Remember a thing When They grow up.
I understand revenge,But If They had adopted them When They know Nothing,They won't remember anything When They are adult.

Same question goes to braveguy Since he is the one doing most of the answering here.

Good question. Humanly speaking that seems to be the most logical and humane way of handling the situation. But it is also a very myopic one. And I will explain as briefly as possible, since half words should become a whole if you assimilate them properly.

1. As you are familiar with the Bible, where did Jacob learn to deceive like his father (Isaac - Genesis 26:9) or grandfather (Abraham - Genesis 20:2)? And you think the Amalekite babies would be any different?
2. Moses was adopted by Pharaoh's daughter, but was his adoption kept a secret forever?
3. Do you believe that if the children were adopted, other nations and even other Israelite children would not know about it and use it to abuse them at some point in time?
4. Even though the Israelites were called sons of God, they were still as sinful as others; don't you think at some point there would be racial discrimination, even when there have been mixed marriages and proper integration?
5. How sure are you that they will never be treated as second class citizens?

If you think deeply about the potential troubles and conflicts this would create later, you will cough up at least another 5 questions, based on the sinfulness of man.

Perhaps, you forget that even Israel, whom God adopted as His son, was undergoing redemption from sin; the human heart is desperately wicked! Even when they got the 10 commandments they were still rebellious in keeping it.

Talking about racial discrimination, I live in the UK and there are white people who have intermarried, for example, the Royal family of England, Prince Philip was born in Greece into the Greek and Danish royal families, but his family was exiled from Greece when he was a baby. Even to this day, some politicians who refuse to be royalists still refer to this as slide remarks to express their disdain for the royal family. This is not to mention, of a documentary made a few years back that traced a prince in Australia, that he should be the King of Britain, not Queen Elizabeth II.

As I said, I will try to be brief, we should respect and stop undermining the wisdom of God; it was easier and FAR much better that those children were taken way by God (through the killing) and enjoy an eternity of genuine love and peace than go through all sorts of problems of bitterness, anger, revenge in life. The cycle will never stop. For example, that is what we have in Israel/Palestine region today; the failure of Israel to eliminate completely thousands of years ago.

Sometimes, it is better to cut off the leg of a person with gangrene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philip,_Duke_of_Edinburgh) than to allow the necrosis to spread beyond redemption and kill the man. Or which would you prefer, amputation or death?

Dapo777:


You still haven't answered the question. I wonder how u pass ur exam.

Let me repeat the question.

Is it right for babies to be killed even If their parents are evil?

Couldn't the Israelites adopt the children as theirs rather than kill them? Those children won't Remember a thing When They grow up.
I understand revenge,But If They had adopted them When They know Nothing,They won't remember anything When They are adult.

Same question goes to braveguy Since he is the one doing most of the answering here.

Oh so you want us to pluck leaves? You've gracelessly accepted you were wrong about Psalm 137? You forgot to paste the link to where i ignored your question? Do you really think this is like some exam for me? Think again.
To start with, we should iron out the fact that you have little or no idea about what is right or what is evil BECAUSE you have no moral compass or base. Now for instance, if you claim to understand revenge or payback or cause and effect, is it right? Is cause and effect right? This is a good step in answering your question.

By the way, I want to add that Jesus says, "Search you the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39.

[size=14pt]PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE![/size]

davien:


LETS EVEN LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE HERE.....IS ART AND DREAMS THE BEST EVIDENCES FOR "GOD" WHEN BILLIONS ARE DYING OF STARVATION IN AFRICA?....."OMNISCIENT DIETY" GIVES MOZART PRODIGY INSTEAD OF FOOD TO THE WORLD

But your ways are not his ways na. Hahaha.

A baby that dies of starvation in east Africa is not really dead. That baby is eating steak in heaven.

Weah96:


But your ways are not his ways na. Hahaha.

A baby that dies of starvation in east Africa is not really dead. That baby is eating steak in heaven.

lol...

BraveGuy:
By the way, I want to add that Jesus says, "Search you the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39.

[size=14pt]PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE![/size]

Was Jesus speaking to John, or was he giving John a message to write down for me to read 2000 years later?

Image123:


Oh so you want us to pluck leaves? You've gracelessly accepted you were wrong about Psalm 137? You forgot to paste the link to where i ignored your question? Do you really think this is like some exam for me? Think again.
To start with, we should iron out the fact that you have little or no idea about what is right or what is evil BECAUSE you have no moral compass or base. Now for instance, if you claim to understand revenge or payback or cause and effect, is it right? Is cause and effect right? This is a good step in answering your question.

Is it not ur Bible that states that If They slap u on one side of the face,turn to the other side to be slapped,So why is Yahweh revenging? He simply can't obey his own rule!!!!!

What an ironical deity

Dapo777:


Is it not ur Bible that states that If They slap u on one side of the face,turn to the other side to be slapped,So why is Yahweh revenging? He simply can't obey his own rule!!!!!

What an ironical deity

You dodged ALL my questions? Why? Yahweh is not human, you are. Did your teachers wear uniform and white socks and Brown sandals?

Image123:


You dodged ALL my questions? Why? Yahweh is not human, you are. Did your teachers wear uniform and white socks and Brown sandals?

School teachers speak for themselves. God doesn't ever speak for himself.

Image123:


You dodged ALL my questions? Why? Yahweh is not human, you are. Did your teachers wear uniform and white socks and Brown sandals?

That's a very weak analogy,.this is a Better one: the legislative, judiciary and executive make laws,But does that exempt them from abiding by the laws They make?
Strong analogy ^^

davien:
1.Her mother is a painter and her art bears her style of art...
2.have you seen jesus to know what the mythological man may have been thought up as?
3.Really? what benefit besides public attention and monetary gains would they have gained?and so you just take their word that they haven't met before like criss angel also interviews his "random" audiences? also did you know her mother never allowed her to paint in front of a camera but doctored a video to the public...?

LETS EVEN LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE HERE.....IS ART AND DREAMS THE BEST EVIDENCES FOR "GOD" WHEN BILLIONS ARE DYING OF STARVATION IN AFRICA?....."OMNISCIENT DIETY" GIVES MOZART PRODIGY INSTEAD OF FOOD TO THE WORLD

hav u personally seen the mothers style of art?
The page has it that she's self taught - not mother taught.

davien:
1.Her mother is a painter and her art bears her style of art...
2.have you seen jesus to know what the mythological man may have been thought up as?
3.Really? what benefit besides public attention and monetary gains would they have gained?and so you just take their word that they haven't met before like criss angel also interviews his "random" audiences? also did you know her mother never allowed her to paint in front of a camera but doctored a video to the public...?

LETS EVEN LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE HERE.....IS ART AND DREAMS THE BEST EVIDENCES FOR "GOD" WHEN BILLIONS ARE DYING OF STARVATION IN AFRICA?....."OMNISCIENT DIETY" GIVES MOZART PRODIGY INSTEAD OF FOOD TO THE WORLD

you're a pathetc sceptc.
A four year old boy testifies of seeing heaven.
His father questioned him presented popular pictures of Jesus, all of which He didnt agree with,
the boy stumbled upon this girl's paintg of Jesus , a girl he'd never met, and said that's the face of Jesus he met in heaven.
Watdyu wanna say?
It was all staged? All a lie?
Nb: the girl said the pix of Jesus was given in a God-inspired vision.
Why didnt it look like the typical pixes ?

asalimpo:


hav u personally seen the mothers style of art?
The page has it that she's self taught - not mother taught.

Art critiques reviewed her work dude.....and you failed to see the point in my comment(the last part).....that is lets truly say she is naturally talented and is actually allegedly sent by what you would call "god"(whatever that is ) ....is it a legendary artist the world needs when children are starving in somalia?

you should learn to review cases thoroughly before posting them(a good suggestion for you)

asalimpo:


you're a pathetc sceptc.
A four year old boy testifies of seeing heaven.
His father questioned him presented popular pictures of Jesus, all of which He didnt agree with,
the boy stumbled upon this girl's paintg of Jesus , a girl he'd never met, and said that's the face of Jesus he met in heaven.
Watdyu wanna say?
It was all staged? All a lie?
Nb: the girl said the pix of Jesus was given in a God-inspired vision.
Why didnt it look like the typical pixes ?

lol..... and do you also know that alien abductees' also agree with each other and also claimed to have never met..... yet you don't believe them do you? and instead of believing them you'll believe this because it relates to your religion..... And i'll ask is it a "heavenly" "god-inspired" painting of "jesus" that the world needs and not hmmmmm lets say food for the less privileged in Africa or regrowth of lost limbs by amputees....
no! "god's" plan is to send a young mozart prodige to inspire people to again take a claim by faith or burn! lol.....have you also checked other religious accounts from other religions?.....why don't you believe the fish with "allah" inscribed on it?

Dapo777:


That's a very weak analogy,.this is a Better one: the legislative, judiciary and executive make laws,But does that exempt them from abiding by the laws They make?
Strong analogy ^^

Before the advent of the New Testament's Matthew 5:39, what did God say in Exodus 21:24? How was He not abiding by His commands?
And when He upped that stake in the New Testament (Matthew 5:39), what happened in John 18:22-23 or Luke 23:34? I ask again: How was He not abiding by His commands?

It seems you revel in blasphemy.

BraveGuy:


Before the advent of the New Testament's Matthew 5:39, what did God say in Exodus 21:24? How was He not abiding by His commands?
And when He upped that stake in the New Testament (Matthew 5:39), what happened in John 18:22-23 or Luke 23:34? I ask again: How was He not abiding by His commands?

It seems you revel in blasphemy.

Wow, So it is u now showing me some more contradictions in the Bible What Matthew 5:39 is saying,Exodus 21:24 is saying quite the opposite.

Now tell me,why should I take such a contradictory book seriously?

https://www.nairaland.com/1943652/why-atheists-cant-convince-staunch


^^^
This is the real thread

MacCantStopMe:
https://www.nairaland.com/1943652/why-atheists-cant-convince-staunch


^^^
This is the real thread

Wow,didn't know someone else has created a similar thread elsewhere.

Dapo777:


Wow,didn't know someone else has created a similar thread elsewhere.

No, I just created it to counter this one...pls comment

BraveGuy:


To be honest, I really don't want to engage on this matter anymore, however, you cited the matters of babies and I will be answer to answer to the extent I know and understand.

You cited the case of where Samuel asked Saul to exterminate the Amalekites including their babies and animals. Very good scenario.

As was mentioned earlier, do you also know that it was a case of cause and effect? Do you think that was the genesis of that matter? Let me take you back in history. I will try to be as brief as possible.

Who was Amalek? Amalek was a cousin (or nephew) to Israel. See Genesis 36:12.
What was the sin of Amalek? See Deuterionomy 25:17-18
"Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt; How he met thee by the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary; and he feared not God."

As Israel travelled back to the Promised Land, out of unnecessary fear and in cowardice, Amalek, attacked Israel, not in a proper war, but targeted the feeble travellers of Israel.

Today, when Boko Haram strikes, you shout and condemn their acts of cowardice at picking soft targets, isn't it? Amalek did worse, they targeted and attacked TRAVELLERS and worse still, these were their cousins!

Besides, Israel was God's son. If your son of few months was mercilessly attacked right under your nose for no just cause what would you do, be laughing and encouraging the attacker or stand up to the bully? God stood up against the bully!

But what about the children (babies) of the bullies?

It was better that they were eliminated, which is 100% righteous. Why?

The way you and I view death is different from the way God views it. When a person is dead and people still want to kick or beat the dead person, does he feel anything? No. Only the person doing the beating or kicking is having an emotional fulfilment. Which would you prefer:
1. The babies become parentless and dies miserably of hunger and care.
or
2. The babies managed to survive and learning of the revenge of Israel decide to take their piece of revenge - making an endless cycle of war.
or
3. They are killed and in their innocence go to be with their Maker?

While it may be a lot of Bible explanations to explore, children who have not reached the age of accountability have no case to answer before God for sin. They have NO understanding of what they are doing. So, if a child dies, he goes straight to be with God.

Death is NOT the final destination of man, it is a passage to another life. I believe that it would be better for the children's life to be terminated here and go to a better eternal place than to grow up with bitterness as a result of the punishment for the sins of their fathers.

Lastly, do you know the meaning of Amalek? Amalek represents City of the World whereas Israel represents City of God. Amalek is an embodiment of the lack of fear of God, it represents pure evil or sheer wickedness.

As I have said previously in my other posts, it is a VERY dangerous thing to reach conclusions without the full facts. It is important to generate as much facts as possible before making conclusions.

I would like to stop there.

this guy must be a psycho,

see how beliefs in gods/heaven can change one morals sphere or view point. This is one of the reason we africans still live in poverty because we believe we re going to a place where one skydaddy has provided

So you're telling me you can kill your gay son before he grew up and sin just because he would goto heaven.

And one more thing, changing the literary things in the bible to one figurative stuff you conjured up to satisfy your claim is really a bad one. Changing babylon and amaekalites to what the bible didnt say it is is not good. The bible is the literay truth of god words right? So why change or add yours?