@ow11
Good questions

@ KunleOshob

Yes, my point did not say that Christianity forbid you from drinking Alcohol. What I said is that God will not recommend you to take something that will cause you Problem thereafter, I hope you get my point. There after I said Alcohol consumption have some Health Effects like the following;

Cirrhosis of the Liver
Alcoholic cirrhosis usually develops after more than a decade of heavy drinking, but for some it can develop more quickly. Even moderate drinkers can develop liver problems over time.

Hepatitis C
Regardless of how Hepatitis C is contracted, continuing to drink after being diagnosed causes this liver disease to progress rapidly.

Cancer
Scientists and researchers continue to find a link between even moderate alcohol drinking and an increased risk of certain cancers, especially breast cancer and liver cancer. The more you drink, the greater the risk of developing cancer.

Alcohol Dementia
Long-term or excessive drinking can and does cause damange to the brain -- Neurological damage and memory loss. Some damage can repair itself, but some can become permanent.

Hangovers
The best cure for hangovers is to avoid them. If you consistently get hangovers, you may have a drinking problem. Young people who binge drink could be risking serious damage to their brains now and increasing memory loss later in adulthood, according to research.

HIV / AIDS and Substance Abuse
Drug users and alcohol drinkers are not only more susceptible to getting HIV / AIDS, but they are more likely to see the disease progress than those who do not drink or use illicit drugs.

Sex and Alcohol
Alcohol plays a role for many in our culture in their sexual releationships, but drinking can cause a variety of negative sexual effects on both men and women.

If you say you take only little then that little you take will cause you take another little, little after little, and you will end up finishing bottles of Alcohol.

Please you have to elaborate more on Jesus's recommendation of taking Wine, in His time, even drinks like Zobo are called Wine, please elaborate more on the kind of Wine Jesus drink or recommended someone to drink.

Whether a good xtian drinks petrol or sperm, e no concern me!

Some people too sabi for this thread sef

@auwal87
Why don't you address the issue of Jesus drinking alcohol instead of giving us your opinion.

That apart there are several food stuffs which we consume regulary that have health implications. For instance consumption of red meat and eggs (cholesterol) can lead to heart attack and the consumption of sugar can lead to diabetes. The key word is moderation. it is hypocritical to single out alcohol. If you choose not to drink for what ever reason no problem but it as no basis in christianity as the founder of the faith used to drink and share it with his disciples and tax collectors. Please note that you are bearing false witness when you say a good christian should not drink cos you are just giving your own opinion by twisting scripture to support your views.

KunleOshob:

@auwal87
Why don't you address the issue of Jesus drinking alcohol instead of giving us your opinion.

I have said this earlier, Jesus may have drank wine classified in the current Juices. But no where in the Bible that says Jesus drank Alcoholic drink or get drunk, since the aim of drinking Alcohol is to get drunk. Please if you have a child, or a teenager, and you saw him drinking, will you not stop him or encourage him to continue drinking? Jesus was an example to Follow, but Alcohol consumption was never encouraged by Jesus, by the way, check your dictionary for the definition of "Wine" and "Alcohol" and see what I am trying to explain to you.

That apart there are several food stuffs which we consume regulary that have health implications. For instance consumption of red meat and eggs (cholesterol) can lead to heart attack and the consumption of sugar can lead to diabetes. The key word is moderation.

Are you trying to say all Non-Vegeterians are likely to have heart attack or diabetes?

it is hypocritical to single out alcohol. If you choose not to drink for what ever reason no problem but it as no basis in christianity as the founder of the faith used to drink and share it with his disciples and tax collectors. Please note that you are bearing false witness when you say a good christian should not drink because you are just giving your own opinion by twisting scripture to support your views.

It is not Hypocritical, but what ever I will not let my Chrildren to do, I would not let my self do it either, why let yourself into what is not compulsory.

I am sure in the issue of unmarried sex you will support using condoms instead of abstinence, would you tell me that the bible also allows and recommend adultery and even Jesus practiced it before? NO!!! Pls don't even try to say that. It is your evil desires that make you think the wrong thing to be right and the right thing to be wrong.

It may be of interest to this topic but saying that Jesus drank wine and leaving it at that is a little misleading.

The wine of the ancients was pretty potent stuff and wasn't drunk in the same way that we partake of it today.
Basically, a little wine was added to a pitcher and then the host would top it up with water. The diluted wine was then poured into bowls and handed out to the guests. Hosts who used less water were always thought to be the best party throwers as the less water, the merrier the party!!!

So in reality, Jesus may have taken wine but it may have been 10 parts water, 1 part wine and so diluted that you would have had to drink gallons to get drunk. Or he may have done it the other way and drunk 10 parts wine, 1 part water, in which case The Last Supper woulda been one helluva party.

@ auwal87. The aim of drinking wine was not always to get drunk as the above points out. Quite often it was seen as a ceremonial participation or formality just as it is in many religious rituals today.

where is image123 ?

@mazaje
why seeketh thou me.thou hast a query on ground to answer on self righteousness
@ow11 and kunleOshob
typical proud nigerian method of answering questions with questions.But I put please now?anyway, I think I can deduce from your responses that drinking alcohol is risky for the christian.If I said I've not lied since I became a Christian,sincerely would you believe me.why ask hypocritical questions if you would not take the answer. And kunle, you appear to be the one with the most Bible quotes and references on this thread so far. Why are you accusing others of misinterpreting and forcing ideas and how are you sure the part that you're quoting is the 'Word of God'.please answer my ?s especially.do you get drunk as a christian and when last?

Image123:

@mazaje
why seeketh thou me.thou hast a query on ground to answer on self righteousness

who gives a Bleep about self righteousness? go and ask the pope. . . .

@Mazaje
You quoted JJYOU's post and asked 'who is this self righteous hypocrite?' Do you remember doing that?or you were downing triple filter.So what do you understand by being self righteous? And please stop cursing,you're in the religion section. Lets be at least civilized,2009 is drawing near

@image

I think at this point you would wish you didn't ask those questions. If you want me to believe you have never told a lie since you got born again then I will do so and I also say I have never gotten drunk.

Your questions are kind of insinuating that consumption of alcohol almost always leads to drunkeness and you are also insinuating that alcohol must be consumed in large volumes at all times.If these statements do not conform with what you are thinking then tell me your reasons why you think alcohol consumption no matter how little is wrong (i.e. A SIN in the eyes of GOD)

Someone on the forum talked about diseases resulting from EXCESS consumption of alcohol. Any sane person also knows the health implications of EXCESS consumption of food. Should we stop eating Meat, Cheese, groundnut oil and sugar because it can lead to diseases like diabetes, stroke, heart diseases and cancer?

Now if you want literature on safe limits of alcohol consumption that will not lead to drunkeness, you can visit this link http://units.nhs.uk/. Like I said earlier, social consumption of alcohol is not wrong, excess consumption is! You do not need to be a christian to know that.

@ow11
Why,you're 'insinuating' my feelings as per my question already.
I believe it is good that we should understand first what should be generally meant by 'drink alcohol'. When someone talks about drinking alcohol,the normal general use of that term is, alcohol in intoxicable %.Something like beer,gulder,harp,star,stout,paraga,hotdrink,and the likes. I don't think the 1st poster or most people are thinking of perfume,fanta,biscuit,robb,paracetamol,ethanol(crude oil),rice and co. And everyone knows that too much of anything is bad,so stop comparing day to day food to intoxicating alcohol that has sent many to untimely death and hospital bed etc. So,question again,should a GOOD christian drink alcohol that is able to make you drunk ?

@image

Did you visit the link?

Since you agree that wolfing down large amounts of food and drinks is dangerous, why do you believe alcohol consumption no matter how little is dangerous? Am I supposed to believe that a 1 unit of alcohol consumed at one time is enough to commit all the brouhaha you wrote about?

Image123:

When someone talks about drinking alcohol,the normal general use of that term is, alcohol in intoxicable %.

what does this sentence mean?

Image123:

So,question again,should a GOOD christian drink alcohol that is able to make you drunk ?

The answer to this is NO! A good christian shouldn't drink alcohol to the point of getting drunk.

PS: I have answered your question twice previously and you haven't bothered with mine. Therefore, I would have to assume you do not have the answers or that your answer would invalidate any preconceived notions you have about alcohol consumption.

@ow11
no,I didn't visit the link,am aware that the alcohol % in biscuit would not make anyone drunk.But the percentage/concentration of alcohol in beer,star and co can make anyone drunk. And I'm not sure of what you mean by unit but I know one bottle of alcohol can make some people drunk drivers and can lead to road accident and others.

Image123:

@ow11
no,I didn't visit the link,am aware that the alcohol % in biscuit would not make anyone drunk.But the percentage/concentration of alcohol in beer,star and co can make anyone drunk. And I'm not sure of what you mean by unit but I know one bottle of alcohol can make some people drunk drivers and can lead to road accident and others.

Good! Since you did not visit the link to update your knowledge about alcohol consumption how are you supposed to know that statements like the one emboldened are not true in the context you try to project?

We like to blame everything but ourselves for our greed and lust. It is the woman you gave me, It is the alcohol, It is the short skirt, It is the free money and most of all it is the devil . . .

While I leave you in your preconceived notion that is somewhat baseless, those that visit this thread with a thirst for knowledge would get what they are searching for and make their own decisions on the facts laid out rather than an old tale that doesn't hold out when put under the light.

if you don't drink alcohol, then you are missing a good and sweet part of life

good and sweet part of life is determined by individuals. alcohol may be sweet and good for you but not everyone.

@ Post

Its a very interesting topic.

A Christian should be able to drink alcohol. Jesus drank alcohol. Infact he loved alcohol so much that he even used it figuratively in several verses of the bible.

Matthew 26:29

29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
KJV

Jesus in this passage even promises that their will be alcohol in heaven.

Infact, let me provide you with scripture in the new testament where alcohol was consumed by both Jesus, his Disciples and the apostles.

1 Tim 5:23

23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
KJV

1 Cor 15:32

32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
KJV

Acts 10:41

41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
KJV

Luke 17:8

8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
KJV

Luke 5:33

33 And they said unto him, Why do the disciples of John fast often, and make prayers, and likewise the disciples of the Pharisees; but thine eat and drink?
KJV

_{The pharisees asking Jesus why he was drinking instead of praying.}

1 Tim 3:8

8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
KJV

Eph 5:18

18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
KJV

_{Here we are adviced not to be drunk with wine, but rather with spirits like Vodka, Cognac, Whiskey, e.t.c.}

John 4:46

46 So Jesus came again into Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman, whose son was sick at Capernaum.
KJV

John 2:3

3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
KJV

<sub>Even Mary the mother of Jesus knew her son drinks and could also brew.


So I hope I have answered your question, with proofs from the bible. Imean lets look at things logically, Jesus first miracle involved alcohol, that has got to count for something.</sub>





(HALLELUYAH!! Drinks is on the house)

@okija
Rotflmao
Na you biko bottles forever abeg make I go watch match.

@KunleOshob: « #35 on: Yesterday at 04:29:29 PM »

@auwal87
Why don't you address the issue of Jesus drinking alcohol instead of giving us your opinion.

That apart there are several food stuffs which we consume regulary that have health implications. For instance consumption of red meat and eggs (cholesterol) can lead to heart attack and the consumption of sugar can lead to diabetes. The key word is moderation. it is hypocritical to single out alcohol. If you choose not to drink for what ever reason no problem but it as no basis in christianity as the founder of the faith used to drink and share it with his disciples and tax collectors. Please note that you are bearing false witness when you say a good christian should not drink because you are just giving your own opinion by twisting scripture to support your views.

You may be doing exactly what you accused auwal87 on. You are giving opinion and twisting scripture to support your views. It is therefore that you are bearing false witness when you say that Jesus is the founder of the Christian faith.

Maybe you meant somebody else. But your reference to a leadership with "disciples" could not but refer to anyone in the bible but Jesus. Or are you truly correct in your statement? We know that Jesus is not the founder of Christianity. Rather the founder(s) named the religion after his title, the Christ.

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Thanks for the compliments brother Recognise.
I'm glad you recognise the fact that the devil can quote the bible, and alo for isolating a few texts from my entire post.

But have you noticed that most of your scriptures came from the old testament. I thought what we had today are the New testament christians??

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@ Recognise

Please revisit your post a nd you would see that you are stradling the line. Yes and No?? So what is the right answer to the question??
The bible has shown countlessly the number of recorded times Jesus was caught drinking. We can only imagine the parts that were omitted from the bible for propaganda sake.

Yes or No, should a christian drink alcoholic beverages or not??

Remember also that the wine used in the upper room for the last supper was alcoholic. So basically when Jesus said and I quote;

1 Corinthians 11:25

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
KJV

_{He meant as often as I drink alcohol, I should drink it in remembrance of him.}

Recognise:

By the way there is no such thing as "New Testament Christian" - it is Christian period

Dude! You are wrong again.

The religion being practiced today by "christians" is based on the New Testament and nothing else. ou mentioned law and grace in your post so I am certain you are conversant with the principles behind the OT and NT.

Christianity is a religion fashioned out after the life of Christ.

If we were operating in the old testament times, the I would agree with you that a Mosestian _{(sorry I cant call them christians since Jesus did not exist then)} should not drink alcohol since it is virtually impossible to find one scripture that supports drinking in the old testament.

But this is the New testament era, and Jesus has also promised that there will be shepke in heaven so I support the "Yes a christian can and should drink alcohol" part.


And please choose a side and stick with it, is it yes or No??

deleted

Again not a statement advocating or condemning but merely a point of interest.

Drugs and alcohol have played a big part in the creation and enactment of religion and still do.
Take a look at the majority of ancient religions and even some of the "native" religions today and you will find that substances that "alter reality" are used to enhance the religious experience.

There is even a theory that Judaism evolved around the drug contained in the Thorn Apple.

http://www.amazon.com/Moses-Legacy-Evidence-History/dp/0330484087

deleted

Pls can one of the pro alcohol people at least tell okija juju that Jesus did not say we should drink alcohol often in his remembrance! Maybe he may listen to you.
Has anyone visited ow11's http://units.nhs.uk/ ?It may help you to visit there,The site cemented my convictions on the risk of taking alcohol.you need to look at the tips for 'social drinking',they laws are so many,for once I was reminded of the book of Leviticus. They even said 'if you're driving with the legal i.e prescribed limit of alcohol in your blood,you're MORE THAN twice as likely to have an accident than if you've not being drinking. The risk is 5times greater if you're a less experienced driver.' well, I thank God scientist and governments are discovering to be truth,what God has warned us of more than 2000 years ago. If you visit that site,try visiting all the links so as to be updated like I was on the danger of the units.Also check out the MYTHS link and discover reality.

@ Recognise

You refer me to a link where I confirm that God is indeed the most Gracious, please do not mislead people to thinking that you anyone can be Intoxicated with Water. Here is what you want me to read;

Water intoxication (also known as hyperhydration or water poisoning) is a potentially fatal disturbance in brain functions that results when the normal balance of electrolytes in the body is pushed outside of safe limits by over-consumption of water.

Normal, healthy (both physically and nutritionally) individuals have little to worry about accidentally consuming too much water. Nearly all deaths related to water intoxication in normal individuals have resulted either from water drinking contests, in which individuals attempt to consume more than 10 liters (10.5 quarts) of water over the course of just a few minutes, or long bouts of intensive exercise during which electrolytes are not properly replenished, yet massive amounts of fluid are still consumed.

Yet, could one survive for a week without Water?
Could Water ever be replaced with Alcohol?
Could Alcohol ever help you in making good decisions?

You can live for as long as you are alive without Alcohol, but dear not without Water, Water is Life, please Stop comparing Water Intoxication and Alcohol Intoxication. For those that are saying Fruits can Intoxicate someone, it will take you day and a half drinking fruits before you become Intoxicated, and it will release you there after by either fainting or sleeping for an hour. How dear you want to compare Fruits, Water, with Alcohol.

Please Stop Misleading People on this issue, God will never recommend any of his creatures to do what will surely hurt his body or his soul.

By the way, there is even Alcoholism in medical terms, but I have never heard of Fruitism, or Waterism.

Think Again.

Just a note to all

I have actually participated in the Holy communion in St. Peters Basillica in Rome, and the wine used was alcoholic. The wine used by the catholic and anglican communion is also alcoholic. So I guessthat must mean it is o.k for christians o consume alcohol.
Afterall, The catholic church is the cradle of the christian religion.

@poster

Before I can answer - what defines a good christian?

Peace

A Born Again Christian should abstain from alcohol.

Why?? Remember as a born again, you are of a royal priesthood and you are a king and priest before God.

Now See what is written about alcohol for Kings in the book of Proverbs 31:4-6

4.It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5.Lest they drink , and forget the law , and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted .
6.Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish , and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Strong Drink is for those that are ready to perish. If you're already dead in sin, it doesn't matter anyway. As a believer if you're still struggling with this question. Then check your salvation experience, Are you really born again? Have you committed to be a disciple of Christ? If not then thus the struggle with alcohol.

chenry:

A Born Again Christian should abstain from alcohol.

Why?? Remember as a born again, you are of a royal priesthood and you are a king and priest before God.

Now See what is written about alcohol for Kings in the book of Proverbs 31:4-6

4.It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5.Lest they drink , and forget the law , and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted .
6.Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish , and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Strong Drink is for those that are ready to perish. If you're already dead in sin, it doesn't matter anyway. As a believer if you're still struggling with this question. Then check your salvation experience, Are you really born again? Have you committed to be a disciple of Christ? If not then thus the struggle with alcohol.

How does the rubbish you just posted above compares with the fact that Jesus christ the author and finisher of our faith used to drink alcohol regularly. Luke 7:33-34