ypeace:
Ifeann

We don't study the Qur’an and hadith neglecting the Situation or what causes the situation in Islam.

Eg if one person has killed another. The situation is killing has occurred. What happened prior to killing is very very important in knowing the stance of Islam on the situation.

Half knowledge can lead astray. Muhammad though you don't believe in him warned against it ie do only what is clear to you and avoid as much as possible what is not clear. To the best of my knowledge verses of the Qur'an and hadith about war is what you know, you don't know how they were applied in Islam.

I still hope I have not digressed from the topic which is killing. OK you don't accept that Muhammad's situation is the same as part of boko haram even though you have not studied all about it. OK for the sake of argument and for the sake of gaining something new from you let's look at this scenario

Nigeria is a christain country, muslims are attacking Nigeria from another country and they are hell bent on wiping the country out because of your belief in Christ. In the boundary of your belief, suggest the solution to your country leader.

You keep bringing if you were slapped on one side of the cheek turn the other side. Now apply this to this scenario if you believe it appears to all form of terror and if you believe it doesn't apply to all form of terror I will like you to state other standard to which you probably judge islam which I don't know about.

Again I asked this question because to me, with some backing from the quran I will suggest to the leader that we should repel this terrorist from other countries using military. But because you have a higher standard to which you say this is barbaric, tell state your own standard by which you will solve the problem.



God knows best and may he guide us right

ypeace:
Ifeann

Slavery in Islam is a way to treat prisoners of war. If an Arab does something, it does not necessarily mean islam support it. Muslims don't keep people in prison neither do they leave their opponents in war who are weak to die there. They share these people among themselves to cater for. These people do not posses the same right in that they can't inherit their owner's property etc. What if they commit a crime, they are not subjected to the same punishment under islamic law.

They were referred to as slaves not because they got captured for the purpose the westerners and some Arab have in mind but because they don't have equal right as normal citizens.

Muslims are slaves to Allah not because they were treated as Western slaves to western masters but because they submit totally to the will of God. I think when we address an issue let's address it as a whole.

Ifeann:


I am getting tired and bored of this your line of questioning.
Nigeria is not a christain country and it is not a Muslim country(thank God).
Muslims would not be attacking me if Mohammed didn't tell them to kill the infidels or kufars

I don't agree with wars and killings, why can't we all live in peace without fear of jihad.

Most of the wars in the last 200 years has been because of atheism, secular and islamic governments.

I know u find it difficult to believe I am against wars and killing because you are NOT used to peaceful solutions as a result of all the fighting from your Quran, I am tired of this line of questioning.

Please let us address why Islam and your prophet endorses, supports and encourages slavery or child marriage or paedophilia or sex with captives or beheadings or stonings or revenge missions or assassination of his critics or the abrogations of revelations or polygamy(legalised adultery) or temporary marriage (legalised prostitution still practised by shites) or Al Taqiyya (use of deceit) or Incest (he slept with his adopted son's ex wife after he divorced her sine Mohammed lusted after her), or sex with captives(which he did often), or No adpotion in Islam or his fear of wall garkos (little lizards) or dogs (mans best friend) or sharing war booty or any other vice in the Qu'ran.


And if I must answer your question I say the best line of action is sign a peace treaty, encourage trade between both parties and encourage cultural integration.

ypeace:


You said you haven't study on Muhammad's plight in mecca before he flees. You only study the end and concluded. Try and study all so that you don't misjudge out of context of the matter.

If you study the Qur’an well, you will know that if you are wronged by another human, the best option is to forgive and forget.

Jesus was not a leader of a country, terror does not come in form of slapping alone. People muhammad (saw) lead are in danger of being prosecuted because of what they believe. The reason why I am using the boko haram issue is simply because we both have roughly the same amount of knowledge about it. So we both agree it's a problem we are battling with. Since you belief don't support using military means to defend yourself, what is the solution your belief posses to this kind of situation?

Ifeann:


My friend you said, "Jesus was not a leader of a country, terror does not come in form of slapping alone"

I agree Jesus is not a leader of a country, he is the Son of God, one with the father, King of kings, seated at the right hand of the father and who ascended into heaven. My way to salvation and Even you Qu'ran admits his greatest and perfection. Why don't you listen to his message and not Mohammed's mostly opposite message, who is buried in mecca and who allegedly died by the poison of a Jewish woman. Why do you fight when Jesus says love, why do you stone and chop off hands when Jesus says forgive

Why do you kiss the black stone and stretch forth your hands to it for NO reason if not paganism under the guise of saying its related to Abraham.

Do you know that all Mohammed's male children from his combined 11 or so wives all died in infancy, why would that have happened to such a "prophet". Why wasn't such a great "prophet" given a male heir even though he lived to his 60s.

Think my friend.

ypeace:
If not having hairs is the criteria for prophethood then Jesus will not be a prophet in Islam. Why all that happened to him you asked. The prophet is the best example for us. He suffered the loss of children to be an example for those who will suffer the same. While these death occurred, did he cause God? No, so when any Muslim suffer the same he has a mentor to follow.

Muhammad would not be a perfect example if there is a situation a muslim can find himself and cannot find a way out using Muhammad's as a mentor.

If misfortune of people are being used to determine their prophethood Abraham, Noah, Moses and even Jesus have their own share of misfortunes. God promised abraham a child, he promised Noah victory. He promised Muhammad who suffered this misfortune something too. Do you know it? If you don't find out.

PastorKun:


It still beats my imagination given all that as been written and attributed to mohammed in the quoran and hadiths how anybody in good conscience can claim mohammed was a perfect ex0ample It just sounds so ridiculous.

ypeace:


I will be afraid it doesn't sound ridiculous to you. Trinity sounds ridiculous to me too but some people believe in it. To them it makes perfect sense. Though I don't know if you believe in trinity though just giving an eg. The theory of relativity sounds ridiculous sometimes back. It is not a crime if something sounds ridiculous.

ypeace:
If not having hairs is the criteria for prophethood then Jesus will not be a prophet in Islam. Why all that happened to him you asked. The prophet is the best example for us. He suffered the loss of children to be an example for those who will suffer the same. While these death occurred, did he cause God? No, so when any Muslim suffer the same he has a mentor to follow.

Muhammad would not be a perfect example if there is a situation a muslim can find himself and cannot find a way out using Muhammad's as a mentor.

If misfortune of people are being used to determine their prophethood Abraham, Noah, Moses and even Jesus have their own share of misfortunes. God promised abraham a child, he promised Noah victory. He promised Muhammad who suffered this misfortune something too. Do you know it? If you don't find out.

PastorKun:


I don't believe in trinity and the fact that some people believe in ridiculous things does not make them true. If you sincerely believe mohammed is a perfect example then boko haram and ISIS fighters who emulate him are justified. You would also be justifying child marriage and paedophilia amongst several other atrocities too numerous to list here.

Ifeann:


My friend you said, "Jesus was not a leader of a country, terror does not come in form of slapping alone"

I agree Jesus is not a leader of a country, he is the Son of God, one with the father, King of kings, seated at the right hand of the father and who ascended into heaven. My way to salvation and Even you Qu'ran admits his greatest and perfection. Why don't you listen to his message and not Mohammed's mostly opposite message, who is buried in mecca and who allegedly died by the poison of a Jewish woman. Why do you fight when Jesus says love, why do you stone and chop off hands when Jesus says forgive

Why do you kiss the black stone and stretch forth your hands to it for NO reason if not paganism under the guise of saying its related to Abraham.

Do you know that all Mohammed's male children from his combined 11 or so wives all died in infancy, why would that have happened to such a "prophet". Why wasn't such a great "prophet" given a male heir even though he lived to his 60s.

Think my friend.

Ovacoma:

muhammad even raided rich merchant caravans, equivalent to to highway robbery today, or is a lie?

Ifeann:


No it is not a lie the hadiths confirm it
He also traded humans (slavery), the hadiths confirm it

muhammad even raided rich merchant caravans, equivalent to to highway robbery today, or is a lie?

Ifeann:


No it is not a lie the hadiths confirm it
He also traded humans (slavery), the hadiths confirm it

Ifeann:


Abraham was promised a child and he got it. Today he is the father of many nations just as the bible said he would be as his sons descendants grew.

Noah was promised to be saved and he was saved from the flood. His sons repopulated the earth. I don't know the victory u mean except if its this.

Jesus knew he came to die for our sins as the scriptures (old testament) prophesied. And he said it many times to his disciples. He came, did that and fulfilled the scriptures . Today he has billions of followers contributing greatly to humanity.

However, You seem to be adamant about the validity of ur quran and his prophet. Let me ask you this.

Please READ this;

When you say Islam is true what you are actually saying is that your god sent the great "messenger" ISA, who was born of a virgin woman and performed countless miracles including giving life to clay (in your book), in the holy bible he gave life to the dead, walked on water etc.
And when the Jews/ pharisees get him and take him to his death, your god then tricks the Jews and Romans to believe that ISA was crucified (check this it is in your quran: for he was not crucified but it was made to them as if he was) and there by starting the great way of life/ religion which has helped countless people find true peace.

After this your "all knowing" god then sends Mohammed to fight the Jews and Christians (a religion he helped create).

How can u believe this. How can your "all knowing" god create a religion and then send another man, Mohammed who performed no miracles to give commands contrary to most of his early "messenger" ISA.

This makes no sense.
Isalm makes no sense

ypeace:


I will be afraid it doesn't sound ridiculous to you. Trinity sounds ridiculous to me too but some people believe in it. To them it makes perfect sense. Though I don't know if you believe in trinity though just giving an eg. The theory of relativity sounds ridiculous sometimes back. It is not a crime if something sounds ridiculous.

ypeace:


Jumping from a topic to another is the result of most religious discussions. This is where our discussion is leading to too.

Except we go back to what we haven't finished I don't see the discussion converging.

But then I think something will helping you in discussing better if you encounter a muslim like me.......... If I have assumed that all christains interpret bible like pastorkun, then I will be arguing with you with a base knowledge that trinity is false. If you are now someone who believes in trinity, my statement would look awkward. What I discovered in our discussion is that you have your own Interpretation of Islam which is different from mine, but then you argue as if your own Interpretation is my belief.

Even though we haven't agreed on anything, your previous advises are taken into consideration. May God guide us right.

Ifeann:


Abraham was promised a child and he got it. Today he is the father of many nations just as the bible said he would be as his sons descendants grew.

Noah was promised to be saved and he was saved from the flood. His sons repopulated the earth. I don't know the victory u mean except if its this.

Jesus knew he came to die for our sins as the scriptures (old testament) prophesied. And he said it many times to his disciples. He came, did that and fulfilled the scriptures . Today he has billions of followers contributing greatly to humanity.

However, You seem to be adamant about the validity of ur quran and his prophet. Let me ask you this.

Please READ this;

When you say Islam is true what you are actually saying is that your god sent the great "messenger" ISA, who was born of a virgin woman and performed countless miracles including giving life to clay (in your book), in the holy bible he gave life to the dead, walked on water etc.
And when the Jews/ pharisees get him and take him to his death, your god then tricks the Jews and Romans to believe that ISA was crucified (check this it is in your quran: for he was not crucified but it was made to them as if he was) and there by starting the great way of life/ religion which has helped countless people find true peace.

After this your "all knowing" god then sends Mohammed to fight the Jews and Christians (a religion he helped create).

How can u believe this. How can your "all knowing" god create a religion and then send another man, Mohammed who performed no miracles to give commands contrary to most of his early "messenger" ISA.

This makes no sense.
Isalm makes no sense

Mintayo:

Wow, this is interesting, and he won't see the truth here. Its shows Allah is confused. He created Christian religion and also send moh to contradict same religion. If Jesus was truly sent by Allah (God forbids ),Why didn't Mohammad do greater works and miracle like Jesus, afterall Jesus did greater miracle than those that precede him. Its Only God can help Muslims, Satan has really blinded them.

Ifeann:

You are actually trying to defend a sick thing such as slavery. Oh I see, u say they were prisoners of war what about the verse I quoted about breeding them and having sex with them if the owner chooses. This is sick.

Why would I chose a religion than endorses slavery over one that discourages it.

And your Qu'ran tells you, you are slaves of allah that's why the jihadists see themselves as slaves that need to blow themselves up, because they have a slave mentality.
Why would I chose a religion that their god calls his followers slaves over one that says we are the children of God, that he, God is an all loving father that will meet our needs if we call on him.

Ifeann:


yazach I am still waiting for your reply as to how qu'ran 2:256 does Not contradict with all the other passages I presented.

You asked, "have you read a verse of the Qura'an where it is directly and categorically stated that their is no compulsion in Islam
If your answer is yes, give us the verse " and I gave it.

Apparently you thought I didn't know the verse because I didn't quote the passage.. Now I quote and you are shocked and you now claim that since the passage is there then your prophet did not compel people to his religion, the I quote some contradicting qu'ran passages and numerous authentic hadiths showing how your prophet disobeyed the command and presented more "revealed" commands asking him to contradict the earlier one and you run away.

You are wrong, I ask of that verse for the following reasons
1- For you to be able to prove your knowledge of the qura'an by comparing the verse with what you quoted
You quoted those verses to claim compulsion in Islam but the verse I ask prove you wrong and you think it is a contradiction This makes me laugh just because what you know about Islam is absolutely Zero

2- You only quote a verse and translate it to suit you personal purpose, so how did you think we will accept that?

My question still remain
Ifeann: Their is compulsion in Islam
Qura'an: Their is no compulsion in Islam

Yazach: Mr Ifeann can you please explain your self better

malvisguy212:
The Qur’an says that Muhammad is the
“Seal of the Prophets” in the following
verse:
Surah 33:40: “Muhammad is not the
father of any man among you, but he
is the messenger of Allah and the
Seal of the Prophets.” (Pickthall)

Muslims use this verse to prove that
Muhammad was the last in a series of
prophets and that he was the
culmination of the prophethood.
However, the Hadith literature makes it
very clear that when the Qur’an refers to the “Seal of the Prophets” being upon
Muhammad, it refers to a LARGE MOLE on his back.

Sahih Muslim, Book 30, Number
5793:
Abdullah b. Sarjis reported: I saw
Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon
him) and ate with him bread and
meat, or he said Tharid (bread soaked
in soup). I said to him: Did Allah’s
Apostle (may peace be upon him)
seek forgiveness for you? He said:
Yes, and for you, and he then recited
this verse: “Ask forgiveness for thy sin
and for the believing men and
believing women” (xlvii. 19). I then
went after him and saw the Seal of
Prophethood between his shoulders
on the left side of his shoulder
having spots on it like MOLES.

The seal of the prophet turn out to be a physical deformity that needed medical attention,but muhammed take advantage of there ignorance, READ BELOW;

Ibn Sa’d (A.H. 168-230), Kitab al-Tabaqat
al-Kabir:
‘Abd Allah Ibn Ja’far al-Raqqi
informed us on the authority of
‘Ubayd Allah Ibn ‘Amr, he on the
authority of ‘Abd al-Malik Ibn ‘Umayr,
he on the authority of Iyad Ibn Laqit,
he on the authority of Abu Rimthah;
he said: I went to the Prophet, may
Allah bless him, and a son of mine
was with me. Then I said: O my son!
This is the Prophet of Allah. When he
(son) saw him, he began to tremble,
out of reverence. When I arrived, I
said, “O Apostle of Allah! I am a
physician and belong to the family
of physicians. My father was a
noted physician during the
Jahiliyyah (pre-Muhammad times)
days; we are famous as physicians.
So permit me (TO TREAT) WHAT IS
BETWEEB YOUR SHOULDER. If it is a
wound, I shall operate on it and
Allah will CURE His Prophet.”
Thereupon he said: THERE IS NO
PHYSICIAN FOR IT EXCEPT Allah. It was
like the egg of a dove. (Translated
by S.M. Haq & H.K. Ghazanfar, Kitab
Bhavan, New Delhi, India, 1972, Vol I
(part 2), p. 503-506.)

Clearly written here, it a physical deformity that needed medical attention,the famous physician wanted to treat the mole but he say Allah will cure it,meaning he agree it was just a mole on his back yet he take advantage of there ignorance.

The bible warn us not to look for omen in other people;

Deuteronomy 18:10: “There should
not be found in you…. anyone who
looks for omens.”

To look for omens means to look for signs such as a mole that portend good or evil.

yazach:



This child! you were unable to defend your self on 32 virgins for Bible god now you are displaying ignorance here

ypeace:
@ifeann pastorkun
It is a general knowledge that Islam prohibits alcohol and pork for Muslims. But I don’t think it is a general knowledge that muslim can eat these if it is the only way by which an illness can be cured or only way to avoid death by hunger. Having this in mind, lets pause on Islam and see your solution to some problems that occur in real life.

War (killing)
Boko haram, Isis has chosen a violent way to ask for whatever they want. Hitler declared war too. Since thou shall not kill, then what is the best way the entity in which war is declared upon can respond?

Slavery
The Arabic word for a slave is Abdul or abeed. Translation of words from one language to another adds meaning or subtracts from its meaning. If the word owph translated as bird in the bible is rigidly correct, then, at least one verse of the bible will be wrong. But if concepts are translated and interpreted in the boundary of their concept, then slavery would include taking away rights of individuals. Prisoner is just a branded name of a slave considered to be a criminal. And since taking away individual rights (slavery) is prohibited, then, what has your believe suggested in replacing prisons where criminals (slaves) are kept? But if prisoners are not slaves, what then makes abdul or abeed slaves?

Raids
What would you suggest the Nigeria govt do when they get the information that book haram are on their way to Sambisa from the market place? Because all I can understand is that Nigeria govt will be doing ‘highway rubbery’ on book haram which is prohibited in your religion. What about illegal good, toxic goods brought into the country?

yazach:


If your statements are through, you will have to explain this

Why would bible support slavery, sex slave, treating slaves in bad manners(beating, sexual harassment, sex trading etc )
The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Bible even support man selling his own child as slaves