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Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by ayoku777(m): 11:33am On Jan 09, 2015 |
Alwaystrue: Happy New year Alwaystrue. Hope you're good. You've been AWOL and MIA on NL. How's family? God bless you. 1 Like |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 11:35am On Jan 09, 2015 |
vooks: It will do you a whole lot of good if you attack the issues and not the person as you discuss. If you think anything was added to scripture, it is noble to ask if and how scripture support such additions. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 11:38am On Jan 09, 2015 |
So what happens when this 'sinful nature' goes ahead and sins? Does the man lose his salvation on account of succumbing to its whims? shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by Alwaystrue(f): 11:39am On Jan 09, 2015 |
ayoku777: Hey @Ayoku, I am good. I have been on NL o just do not dabble much in topics that have over-discussed anymore. But I actually post from time to time publishing messages that inspire. Family is great too. Amen. Hope you are well and your family is also doing fine. Thanks for the note. 1 Like |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 11:41am On Jan 09, 2015 |
Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV) 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Who are these people who invoked the name of Jesus successfully and are now cast into hell? Were they justified at some point cc italo, BabaGnoni shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 11:54am On Jan 09, 2015 |
vooks: These are two independent natures- The Flesh(Adam) and the spirit(Jesus). It is only natural for the flesh, propelled by the sinful nature to do what the flesh does- crave for everything that is against God or godliness(Sin). The spirit on the other hand is a down payment, an assurance that we are saved, the spirit is justified, He cannot sin,leave nor die. Having this spirit does not make you less natural/sinful in the flesh. However, this spirit, if nourished with the Word of God subdue the demands of the flesh and keeps it in control(sanctified). The presence of the 'new man' is what guarantees our salvation. Apostle Paul ended chapter 7 with this consolation- 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind(the inner man) I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. NB 'Law' here means a corresponding and imperative reaction based on an initial action- e.g Law of gravity |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 12:06pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
In short, no amount of sin can take a justified Christian to hell,right? shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 12:20pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
vooks: That is how big the price paid for sin is, heaven gave its very best.... the demand of sin was entirely paid for. The wage of sin is death. Sin was fully paid for by the death of the purest and greatest of all. 1 Like |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by Hiswordxray(m): 12:23pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
shdemidemi:I didn't want to say this before but you understanding of rapture is wrong. Don't ask me to explain because I won't explain but I want you to know that your pre-rapture doctrine is wrong. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by Hiswordxray(m): 12:25pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
shdemidemi:I didn't want to say this before but you understanding of rapture is wrong. Don't ask me to explain because I won't explain but I want you to know that your pre-rapture doctrine is wrong. And that is want is causing you to misunderstand somethings in the Bible. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 12:26pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
^^ |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 12:34pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
Not even apostasy,right? You can even worship devils and your mansion is still reserved,am I wrong? shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by Hiswordxray(m): 12:36pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
shdemidemi:Please explain these verses. "26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Heb 10:26-31). "If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death." (1John 5:16-17) "4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame." (Heb 6:4-6). Don't go to the extreme but always come to a balance of things. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 12:45pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
vooks: Very convenient to tell you it shouldn't be so, but is it within my God given privilege to advice God? Never! Romans 5 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. It’s very possible to be a backslider as a believer, and never lose your salvation. But on the other hand, for people who were never really saved, it’s not hard for them to turn their back on revealed truth and become an apostate. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by paxonel(m): 12:47pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
ayoku777:thanks! but we were not talking about repentance, we were talking about justification. repentance is good, but justification and repentance are two different thing. justification to eternal life is through grace. it is a spiritual gift. but repentance is physical, it has to do with keeping the law, the law is physical,it is good. that is why God will rebuke us when we commit sin, cos, if we don't repent, we will have the consequence of our action here on this physical earth like anyone else, God is not bias. But in the spirit where our justification lies in the spirit we are saved in his kingdom whether we repent here on earth and suffer the consequence or our action, or not. ofcourse, you know everybody on earth commit sin so everybody suffer on earth, depending on the level of your sin. look at it this way,God is a spirit, if God chooses not too see your sin or the sin of other believers with his spiritual eyes in order that you have eternal life (not in order that you bypass the consequence of your sin here on earth ), you can't force him to do so simply because you are a legal extremist on this physical earth what is spirit is spirit, and what is physical (carnal ) is physical. you have to know that truth and be happy, because no man is above comiting sin |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 1:17pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
Suffering on earth is not necessarily a function of sin, else you need to mean that those who suffer most are more sinners and those who suffer the least are less sinners. Secondly, if consequences of sin are entirely earthly, one may argue that hell is an overkill for sinners who suffer for their sins completely here on earth and then proceed to hell paxonel: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 1:29pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
Hiswordxray: In order to understand these verses we must understand the full picture, trust me that will be long. The book of Hebrews was written primarily to the Jews. What exactly is their belief system? It is Judaism. Judaism is based on temple worship, sacrifices, and Feasts. These people have been practising this religion for at least 1400 years before the birth of Jesus. These people find it difficult to accept the gospel of Grace, they dabble into it but they don't accept it completely. If you’re going to turn around and walk away from what has been revealed to you by the grace of God and you’re going to go back or mix Judaism with all of its Temple worship and sacrifices, then, you’re out of it. God is no longer dealing with people on the basis of the animal sacrifices because He was the complete, perfect sacrifice. Nothing in the book of Hebrews says a Christian will lose his salvation. We can create a thread to deal with the book of Hebrew word for word if you desire. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 2:00pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
shdemidemi, are you 'really saved'? How do you know those who are 'not really saved'? shdemidemi: Then please explain to me this plain verse 2 Peter 2:20-21 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 2:14pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
vooks:Yes... The faithful book says I should reckon myself as saved and I believe it with every fibre of my being. vooks: Only God knows. I can only share the gospel that leads to salvation. vooks: WORKS- This isn't a doctrine of GRACE which is a free gift of salvation to all (male,female,old, young, good, bad) that believe. It is actually that of works, whereby you are judged by what you do. You will not find a statement like this in the epistles of Paul, who happens to be the minister appointed to the church(primarily Gentile). |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by MEILYN(m): 2:18pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
This discussion is too big for me .... Anyway, the truth is, I don't do religion anymore.... I hope the grace masters e.g Goshen put you through ..... Oh Sukkot where art thou? |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by Hiswordxray(m): 2:47pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
shdemidemi:"4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame." (Heb 6:4-6). If these verses doesn't tell you that a Christian could lose his salvation then you are reading the Bible with the wrong glasses. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by christemmbassey(m): 3:04pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
italo:bros go back and study Rm7, its evident that you only read dat portion. Study, Study and study. BTW, happy new yr, bro. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by christemmbassey(m): 3:08pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
Hiswordxray:who are their teachers? Most of them are taught by pharisees, ignorants and merchants. Stay blessed. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 3:08pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
So this statement is not applicable to you or what? 2 Peter 2:20-21 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 3:12pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
Hiswordxray: You might have to redefine justification, if a christian will be eventually judged to be saved by 'works' and not wholly by the tremendous salvation by Grace. What do you say 'justification' is again? Check that word 'taste'... I don't sustain any form of energy from some thing I simply taste. I can keep having a taste and yet starve to death. I must latch on it if I really want to partake in it. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 3:26pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
Don't play around with words. Study these two other occurrences of the word taste Matthew 16:28 King James Version (KJV) 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Hebrews 2:9 King James Version (KJV) 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. Taste death means dying, taste heavenly gift means receiving the heavenly gift shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 3:35pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
vooks: Peter's epistles were foremost to the Twelve Tribes scattered throughout the nations. If you go through your book of Acts properly, you will realise Peter and James decided to go to the Jews with their message while Paul went to the Gentiles to teach this gospel of justification and Grace without the input of sacrifices, legalism or works. Paul also confronted the jewish/christian temple worshippers (this included Peter and James) in the book of Galatians to explain his doctrine of Grace without circumcision and other principles and aspects of the law and Jewish traditions. After so much dispute, they agreed that he can take his gospel of Christ to the Gentiles. As far as I know, I am a non-jew and the bible points me directly to Apostle Paul as my teacher- Romans 11 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh(the Jews), and might save some of them. Does this mean I can't learn from Peter's letters? No. But I will not mix Works with Grace...They are parallel. |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by Image123(m): 3:40pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
Alwaystrue: Maaaaama o ga oh, long time. i just dey gladys to see your post again, Happy 2015. 1 Like |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 3:41pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
vooks: I am sure you are familiar with contextual nuances. You can check one english word and find ten separate meanings depending on how they were used. Tasting heavenly gift is different from receiving it |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 3:44pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
Shdemidemi, you are an extremely intelligent man, mighty in scriptures What PERISH is Paul talking about? 1 Corinthians 8:10-11King James Version (KJV) 10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; 11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by vooks: 3:48pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
This is not English but Greek my friend What do you think tasting heavenly gift and the good word of the Lord means? What is the 'heavenly gift' any way? shdemidemi: |
Re: Can A Christian Be Justify & Still Be Guilty As Charged? by shdemidemi(m): 3:55pm On Jan 09, 2015 |
vooks:Unnecessary.. vooks: Context- Perish- 'lost' |
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