5minsmadness:

Which year was this article written?

Do you see where the woman they were interviewing said "it is done to every woman"? And the man(of nigerian origin o) saying he had never slept with an uncircumcised female? Haba naaaa. So all you ladies on this thread are circumcised?

It's not an article. It's a 116 page report published in 2011. I put the link in my post for a reason. You can simply click on it and read it. It is obviously an ethnography so the informant being interviewed is speaking for her tradition. her quote is "it is a traditional thing, it is a routine. it has to be done to every girl child."
Some ethnic groups don't practice it at all and with some ethnic groups in nigeria, prevalence rate is upwards of 90%. It's not very difficult to simply google FGM statistics in Africa.

5minsmadness:

I've mentioned them before. Let me say the ones I know.

1. Welcomes the child into womanhood. Same for guys.

2. Gives her respect as a woman in her society.

3. She is allowed to speak in matters affecting the community she is in.

4. Some women says it beautifies the female genitals.

5. She is allowed a woman's share of inheritance in her family. If not circumcised she will still be given a share but as a girl and not a grown woman

6. She is married off with respect and the full support and backing of her kinspeople.they will always look out for her in the marriage.


Cultural wise, it was a part of a people's identity and maybe shouldn't have been swept underfoot just like that. They should have made it better, safer, less traumatizing, and more humane for those who practice it.

Thank you for outlining the benefits.
However, none of these 'benefits' will enhance a woman's life in the society we are now in. So why keep the practice alive? If a cultural practice is not contributing positively a society do they keep it alive just because it is cultural?

elektra:


Thank you for outlining the benefits.
However, none of these 'benefits' will enhance a woman's life in the society we are now in. So why keep the practice alive? If a cultural practice is not contributing positively a society do they keep it alive just because it is cultural?

I guess not.

red101:


FGM is not abolished. It is widespread in Africa in various forms from the "mild" to the extreme.
Most of the ardent supporters are men and also many women who maybe want "honor" or higher bride price for their daughters (FGM is supposed to keep the girl as a virgin or chaste. well, duh... it destroys or reduces her ability to feel sexual pleasure) which translates to higher honor for the family. This is the cultural significance of FGM: control of female sexuality.

Some ethnic groups don't practice it so it's not a western thing. You just say so because you know deep down that it is a barbaric act and you feel that all opposition to barbaric acts must come from the west.
it is mostly education and female empowerment that will lead to the eradication of the practice.

Are you very sure about that, @bold text?

5minsmadness:

I guess not.

this man don tire

crackhaus:

Are you very sure about that, @bold text?

what do you mean that men don't support FGM? You are an example right on this thread.
the practice stems from the whole belief that women need to be chaste, mind you.

None of the listed 'benefits' are something that can't be achieved other way than harming a child's body and spirit.

It strikes me as peculiar people speak of 'chastity' where they mutilate sexuality of a baby child, people speak of 'holiness' when they do an act of torture, and people speak of 'respect' when they do something to their community's most vulnerable without any regard for that person's voice.

So looked solely at the language that's supposed to give reasons for the practice, it doesn't hold any reason and is contradictory on an abstract level.

red101:


what do you mean that men don't support FGM? You are an example right on this thread.
the practice stems from the whole belief that women need to be chaste, mind you.

Lmao...

Okay let's try this again, the question was:
Are you very sure about that?

crackhaus:

Lmao...

Okay let's try this again, the question was:
Are you very sure about that?

It's quite obvious isn't it? why would I say something if I didn't think it to be right and have evidence to support my claim. If you have evidence contrary to my statement below, go ahead and present your case.

Most of the ardent supporters are men and also many women who maybe want "honor" or higher bride price for their daughters (FGM is supposed to keep the girl as a virgin or chaste. well, duh... it destroys or reduces her ability to feel sexual pleasure) which translates to higher honor for the family. This is the cultural significance of FGM: control of female sexuality.

red101:


It's quite obvious isn't it? why would I say something if I didn't think it to be right and have evidence to support my claim. If you have evidence contrary to my statement below, go ahead and present your case.

Cool, I'm glad you brought up the evidence thing.

You say you have evidence to support your claim that most of the ardent supporters of FGM are men, please provide this evidence before I present my case to the contrary.

I can't believe it's more important to you @crackhaus who supports *mutilation and torture of baby girls.* than that that practice is done.

In fact, you yourself are evidence of red101 claim, assuming you're male. Just look at this thread: the person who's strongly arguing against the practice and providing well researched, educated, and humane views on it, *is a woman*, and from the tone of criticisim she is getting from doing so it's safe to assume that it's men objecting her views, eventually that it's women who have a lot of internalized misogyny to work through, a.k.a. under influence of men, therefore again, men deciding.

Plain logic and common sense.

BlackLeopard:
[s]I can't believe it's more important to you @crackhaus who supports *mutilation and torture of baby girls.* than that that practice is done.

In fact, you yourself are evidence of red101 claim, assuming you're male. Just look at this thread: the person who's strongly arguing against the practice and providing well researched, educated, and humane views on it, *is a woman*, and from the tone of criticisim she is getting from doing so it's safe to assume that it's men objecting her views, eventually that it's women who have a lot of internalized misogyny to work through, a.k.a. under influence of men, therefore again, men deciding.

Plain logic and common sense.[/s]

What is/is not important to me is really not your concern, and I don't know why you're butting into this convo to mention my moniker - don't we already know that FGM practices existed/exist?

I wonder where/how I claimed to support FGM, you should learn to read.


Now according to your plain logic and common sense, men are the ones who influence the women who usually carry out FGM procedures?
As in, it is men who want to keep their daughters chaste and not mothers themselves?

Please tell me you actually read what you typed before clicking submit...

A, we're on a public forum,
B, human rights are everybody's concern,
C, Bleep your attempt at silencing me, try harder.

And yes, patriarchy & misogyny (which are something that men exhibit and have spread to communities & system of power to do it by respectively) are what moves those women to be abusers, at least in part. If you can't see how a system contributes to individual decisions, then you're really missing a big part of the picture.

One doesn't have to be holding a knife to be a killer; who profits from murder is as much if not more guilty.
Same deal here.

crackhaus:

Cool, I'm glad you brought up the evidence thing.

You say you have evidence to support your claim that most of the ardent supporters of FGM are men, please provide this evidence before I present my case to the contrary.

read my post carefully, I said most ardent supporters are men and also many older women who are bound by the patriarchal rules.
note that these same old women tend to be the ones the men usually hold up as good examples for younger women to follow in order to be "true or good african women" (whatever that means) there is no question there as to why old women are held up since they are the ones who are most socialized into patriarchy. they are the men's trench workers. They do the dirty job as trench soldiers.

you ask me to provide "evidence" when you and 5minmadness have already presented yourselves as evidence. No woman is in support of FGM on this thread. In fact, you and your other male ally both came in to attack the women for speaking out against the act.
If you are thinking that your support of FGM is absolved because you are not the one physically burning or cutting off a girl's parts, you have failed miserably.

BlackLeopard, you took the words right out of my mouth

Thank you, red101.

Honestly I'm pretty much seeing disconnect in the way some guys on this thread have presented themselves; there's that wanting to see themselves as 'good men' in the same time not even bothering to think of what is it that they're arguing for, torture of children, and when it's pointed out exactly as what it is outside of language they've been sugarcoating it in whole their lives they throw a fit and backpedal and accuse women present of a gender conspiracy against them and men present as irrational and crazy who have no right to speak up at all.

Misogyny at its finest show. Pretty sickening.

Who is blackleopard?

cococandy:
Who is blackleopard?

Random nairalander with generally no patience for inhumane bullshit

BlackLeopard:


Random nairalander with generally no patience for inhumane bullshit

lol
I can see

cococandy:
Who is blackleopard?

Lol! Get out of my head.

BlackLeopard:


Random nairalander with generally no patience for inhumane bullshit

Yeah!
I 'liked' this post too

Ewuro4:


this man don tire

Lol
I have learned from experience that one cant hold a logical discussion on Nairaland without whipping up sentiment that beclouds everything. And no matter how hard one tries to explain, the 'offended party' will continue to rant and tirade until the other gives up in silence.

Having said that, I actually saw the point of and agreed with elektra's post; hence my response.

I decided to debate on female circumcision(not the ugly name of female genital mutilation like the whiteys renamed it because it wasn't their culture) and how it differs from cutting off a newborn male baby's penis skin(which the whites have no problem with since it is their culture) and some people have already decided here is a pro-FGMist, lets crucify him, lol

Why is male circumcision not called Male Genital Mutilation(MGM)? After all it mutilates the natural look of the male genitals, causes severe bleeding and pains for days, has potential for life long side effects like penis-mutiliation, bleeding, sepsis, reduced sexual sensitization, holes in the penis(hypospadias, epispadias), tetanus, hiv transmission from infected instruments, phimosis, pain on urinating, etc etc etc?

Why is MGM good and FGM bad?

red101:


read my post carefully, I said most ardent supporters are men and also many older women who are bound by the patriarchal rules.
note that these same old women tend to be the ones the men usually hold up as good examples for younger women to follow in order to be "true or good african women" (whatever that means) there is no question there as to why old women are held up since they are the ones who are most socialized into patriarchy. they are the men's trench workers. They do the dirty job as trench soldiers.

you ask me to provide "evidence" when you and 5minmadness have already presented yourselves as evidence. No woman is in support of FGM on this thread. In fact, you and your other male ally both came in to attack the women for speaking out against the act.
If you are thinking that your support of FGM is absolved because you are not the one physically burning or cutting off a girl's parts, you have failed miserably.

I've got no patience for tutoring you on how to read and assimilate before throwing silly accusations like I support FGM around - you should heed your own advice by going back to read this thread carefully.

However, since you conclude that I support it - kudos genius, you can take that information to the bank for all I care.. makes no difference to me what you feel or think.

You also conclude that men through patriarchy are responsible for making women perform FGM?
Well this just has to be another stvpid thing I've had to read on this thread - but thanks all the same for confirming that women have always been puppets to their men-gods, subject to our rules, desires, and inventions, with no sense of responsibility whatsoever.

I guess that should be all, or have I left anything out?

BlackLeopard:
Thank you, red101.

Honestly I'm pretty much seeing disconnect in the way some guys on this thread have presented themselves; there's that wanting to see themselves as 'good men' in the same time not even bothering to think of what is it that they're arguing for, torture of children, and when it's pointed out exactly as what it is outside of language they've been sugarcoating it in whole their lives they throw a fit and backpedal and accuse women present of a gender conspiracy against them and men present as irrational and crazy who have no right to speak up at all.

Misogyny at its finest show. Pretty sickening.

First, you were interested in knowing what is more important to me - now, you're concerning yourself with the way some guys present themselves on this thread.
Aren't you seeing the correlation yet?

It's right there in your comment @bold, you're sick!

Go have the argument you long for with 5minsmadness, he's the one you're looking for - definitely not me.

Ain't got time for boys who are obsessed with what I find important or how I present myself...pathetic.

Okay who's next?
Ahhh I see it's the market women again, obviously still hurt and can't stay off my radar.

I really don't know what to make of these two anymore, it's quite sad really - I must be appearing in your dreams for this obsession to have so much hold on you, I have that effect on people though

Cc: Ileobatojo, Cococandy

crackhaus:
Okay who's next?
Ahhh I see it's the market women again, obviously still hurt and can't stay off my radar.

I really don't know what to make of these two anymore, it's quite sad really - I must be appearing in your dreams for this obsession to have so much hold on you, I have that effect on people though

Cc: Ileobatojo, Cococandy

I see the paranoid delusional lunatic is still paranoid and delusional. Hopefully, they'll be able to pick you up and put you in a cage where you belong soon. Dont worry, I'll be praying for you that they get to you asap. It's not really fair for you to be out of your natural habitat for so long. Pele.

Emm circumcision does not cause 'holes in the penis' (epispadias and hypospadis) It does not cause phimosis, rather is the treatment for phimosis. And it is very unlikely to cause "severe bleeding for days". Uncontrolled severe bleeding would likely have someone ex sanguinate before getting to "days".

ileobatojo:



I see the paranoid delusional lunatic is still paranoid and delusional. Hopefully, they'll be able to pick you up and put you in a cage where you belong soon. Dont worry, I'll be praying for you that they get to you asap. It's not really fair for you to be out of your natural habitat for so long. Pele.

Old woman, what brought you back to this thread if not the hurt I inflicted on you?
You just couldn't help but come back to gloat, could you?

Roger this;
I don't have what you're looking for, neither am I responsible for the heartache you feel at every sight of my moniker - take your witchcraft elsewhere cos I'm covered with the precious blood of Jesus.

And you're even praying, buahahahaha... what malignant blasphemy!
Do they pray inside a witch coven too?

crackhaus:

Old woman, what brought you back to this thread if not the hurt I inflicted on you?
You just couldn't help but come back to gloat, could you?

Roger this;
I don't have what you're looking for, neither am I responsible for the heartache you feel at every sight of my moniker - take your witchcraft elsewhere cos I'm covered with the precious blood of Jesus.

And you're even praying, buahahahaha... what malignant blasphemy!
Do they pray inside a witch coven too?

You know, you should probably take the time to wipe off the drool on your face. I understand activities of daily living are difficult when one is as mentally challenged as you, but really, drool shouldn't be too complex to manage.

ileobatojo:


You know, you should probably take the time to wipe off the drool on your face. I understand activities of daily living are difficult when one is as mentally challenged as you, but really, drool shouldn't be too complex to manage.

Of the over 1million witty comebacks available to half-intelligent adults, you choose to use 'drool on my face?'
Like are you kidding me...DROOL?
Are you in elementary school or something?

You're making this too easy for me witch, or has your cauldron run out of soup already?
I told you I was covered with the blood, you no dey hear word...

crackhaus.. Please 'be a man' and stop this annoying back and forth Thank you.


5minsmadness.. I replied your post but was accidentally deleted(iphone6plus is garbage aswear).

Anyways... Comparing the two procedures is childish. albeit they're called same terms, these are two totally different procedures. The outer skin was simply removed while the femalcore was tempered with in former.

This is not about being a sheepie but common sense... ( just generally speaking, not referring to your person in any way )

P.S That's NLers for you.. They fight till they quench on top nothing Good debate by the way.

crackhaus:

Of the over 1million witty comebacks available to half-intelligent adults, you choose to use 'drool on my face?'
Like are you kidding me...DROOL?
Are you in elementary school or something?

You're making this too easy for me witch, or has your cauldron run out of soup already?
I told you I was covered with the blood, you no dey hear word...

Hey, it's okay, I get it. If one has mush for brains like you, then there's a desperate need to try to fake being intelligent. Keep trying dear. you might get there some day. Though I must say it's highly unlikely. But I give you an A for effort.