malvisguy212:
you don't want to confront the truth.the two name you mention, non of them were able to make a comment on my thread, ask them why.

Ifeann:


One idea u got wrong is on the killing of the cartoonists of Mohammed. Mohammed had several people killed for mocking him or criticizing him... according to your hadiths he approved of the murder of an old man in his 100s for writing a poem about Islam and he called for the eventual butchering of a breastfeeding mother in front of her kids... he murdered so manyothers for making fun of him....Below i will upload a pic on the murder of his critics from a passage from one of your authentic sources. ..

Rilwon:


Lol! sometimes one have to allow fo0lish people think they are wise, don't you think? hehe.

Common sense they say is'nt common my chief.

Like your demented brother truthman will say "tough question muslim can never answer" lol.

alaimokan

usermane:


I think that concerns traditional Muslims like. I believe Hadith are lacking in Historical authenticity and Quranic validity, hence i don't buy Hadith. I have explained that to you in the past. Those 'authentic sources' which you cite against Muhammad also teach Muhammad performed several miracles like splitting the moon, do you believe that?



There were several corrupt rulers of Arabia after Muhammad. They needed justification for their crimes of killing their opposers. Hence, they employed phony scholars or clerics to fabricate the Hadith you are referring.

Ifeann:


My friend i have to be honest with you after reading your sources and listening to scholars discuss this issue i can submit to you that if a Muslim rejects the hadiths he or she rejects Islam and ceases to be a muslim. ... this is one point i will side with Muslims that berate u on this forum. .in some Muslim countries u will be branded a herectic or apostate and killed. ...

U can't deny the hadith. .a lot of Muslims reject the hadith because they are embarrassed by the deeds of Mohammed.

Ifeann:

Here are some of my reasons why ucan't eject the hadiths. ..
As a muslim How do you knw how to pray and how many times... it's the hadith that tells you

How do you know what to pay as zakat ....it's the hadith that tells you

So many verses of the quran lacks context unless u read the hadiths a popular verse is sura 1: 11..it's the hadith that tells you

Your quran tells you in sura 23:31 to copy the life of Mohammed as the example to follow, Mohammeds name is only mentioned 4 times in the quran. .very little of Mohammed is described therein ... so how do u learn the examples of his deeds and to live like Mohammed . ...it's the hadith that tells you

How do you know the shahadda..To become a muslim u must speak the shahadda...it's the hadith that tells you

Empiree:
And what's above hadith you cited has to do with WORSHIP?. Is this inguistic problem you have or what. Sending SALUTATIONS/GREETINGS is now tantamount to WORSHIP?. Billions of muslims are idolators.......is that your conclusion?

usermane:
true2god

@underline is incorrect, it is derived from poor translation and interpretation of the verse.



“Duaa is suspended between heaven and earth and none of it is taken up until you send blessings upon your Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam.” [At-Tirmidhi, Hasan Al-Albani]

Your tradition above says it all. Arab pagan did believe that direct contact with God is not possible and only upon venerating certain idols do their prayer reach God.


Once you believe that contacting God is not possible without mentioning another being, you are associating that being with God.

See this is the trick they pulled. They had Obama colonize Africa while Eric Holder let these white folks run over us domestically for the last six years. It was all a plan from the start. These devils are out right genociding us but somehow its never enough evidence once it gets to those two mixed breeds. Just like the lancados during slavery, we got played again.

Empiree:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X706Ne4dmpQ

usermane:


Alright, but what about the Hadith teachings on salawat that i talked earlier? He is a convert, so at this stage, he may be unfamiliar with the Hadith viewpoint on salawat. Of course it is easy to defend that salawat is not idolization of Muhammad from the Quranic perspective alone but it is impossible to do the same from a Quran + sunnah perspective.

Abu Hurayrah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam said, “There is not one of you who sends his greetings upon me except that Allah returns the soul to my body (in the grave) and I return his greeting.” [Abu Dawood, Saheeh Al-Albani]

Usermane
First, there are 5 periods specified for Salat in the Qur'an.
Secondly, Salat mean a contact or connection with God. It is a flexible ritual that was well known to the Arabs, Greek and Persians before the Qur'an. Muhammad wasn't taught Salat.

Zakat mean an act to purify one 's self and wealth. It is not limited to spending out of one 's wealth. Remember that the Qur'an is the criterion for judging Muslims. If the amount to be spent is not mentioned in the Qur'an, it mean the mainstream Muslim fixed and imposed their amount on themselves. The Quran silence on certain matters let man to decide for himself based on circumstances.

Pardon, Chapter 1 has 7 verses, no 11th verse. Qur'an defines itself as fully detailed, clear and self explained, therefore it bears it own context. Every information in the text can be understood from the text itself.

It is Qur'an 33:21 that commend Muhammad as an excellent character. Nevertheless, Muhammad got his examples by complying with the Qur'an and so all i need to follow his examples is to abide by the Qur'an. If Muhammad had other beneficial examples not found in the Qur'an, he would have officially documented it alongside the Qur'an instead of leaving such a delicate task to be completed by his followers 150 years after his death.

Being a Muslim doesn't require an initiation where words are pronounced. Regardless,
the shahadah is in the Qur'an. Quran 3:18 confirms it as 'No god but God'. Orthodox Muslim clerics introduced a second shahadah on the messengership of Muhammad but that is their business. If it is not in the Qur'an, it is man-made. Period.

Most of you Christians reject the traditions of the Church, which were upheld by Christians for over a thousand years and revered as traditions from Jesus and the apostles. I reject the Muslim traditions partly for the same reasons you reject the Church traditions and yet you opin that your position is right and mine is wrong? I have read several articles by orthodox Christians affirming the authenticity and validity of the Church traditions.

It is unfortunate that you opt to focus on certain Hadith and ignore others. Most of your criticisms of Muhammad like the infamous 'slaughter of Banu Qurayza Jews' can be refuted by historical analysis. You have to make a choice, either Muhammad commited all those crimes and split the moon as Hadith tells or he neither commited those crimes nor split the moon. There cant be a middle path.

Ifeann:


Please give evidence of this from the verses in your quran... where does it say pray 5 times in the quran..just for clarity purposes.

I tend toagree with you on this point however 80 to 90 percent of the Muslim on earth follow the hadith on this.
Why is the overwhelming majority not making this argument for the quran.

Sorry if i quoted a wrong number for a verse. . I try to be as accurate as possible. . But mistakes do happen. .
Yes the quran says it is clear etc but why is it so easily and often misunderstood... why arethere claims of misinterpretation and so many scholar conflicting with each other on interpretations and abrogations. . Why all these talk of exegesis and re interpretations..i have even had Muslims here in nairaland use a verse in 2 opposing interpretation and meaning to defend their argument. .

I still stand by what i said and what several Islamic scholars say. .. the quran had little information on Mohammed. .. their is no way to understand his character by reading the quran alone. . The Muslims often claim that excellent work was done in compiling the hadiths on scales of authenticity. And why would Allah allow the hadiths be compromised and used to redicule his religion if he is all knowing like Muslims claim. . We see no such problems with christainity. .

No god but God. .. wow. .. so this is all one had to say? ? Which god will the person be talking about. .. the god worshiped by the Hindus , Egyptians, cannanites etc, it's the hadith that let's you know its the one Mohammed claimed to serve. .

Ifeann:
author=usermane



Please who told u most Christians reject the traditions of the Church, the Catholics, eastern othodox, oriental othodox , coptic etc all have similar practises on christain traditions that dates back to the apostles and together they make up to over 1 billion christains. .while protestants number to about 900million. The protestants (Sola scriptura adherents) are the ones who reject traditions and theyhave good reasons according to them and that is why we see herectics like the word of faith, Jehovah witnesses bending scripture and interpreting it to satisfy their greed as we see with prosperity preachers. Even past Catholics popes have been know to
Do this.. but reading the bible is clear no matter which christain group you choose.

Please which historical analysis refutes the slaughter.

I focus on the issues with the hadiths and quran. .. it is not all evil. . Mohammed did say some nice things when he was a warner in mecca before he turned to a warrior in Medina. . If u Muslims choose to belive in the stories of his alleged miracles and contradictthe quran thats their cupof tea.. even the quran said Allah will provide no miracles. ..

The God of the scripture you abide by.

usermane:


Your estimate is not correct.............

..........
Majority of the Christians today are protestant, unorthodox. Even the orthodox Christians don't even cling top their traditions as their ancestors did or as orthodox Muslims cling to theirs.

Ifeann:
I have studied several teachings of the quran and hadiths...a lot of it entirely contradicts the treaching of Christ. .. this has lead me and every bible reading christain to conclude the god of Islam is not the true God we christains worship. .we can discuss examples of you want. .

usermane:

^^^^
My post was in response to your question. You asked, 'if the testimony was merely "No God but God", which God is the Muslim testifying to?' I meant it is the God of the scripture the Muslim abide by that he is testifying.

usermane:

^^^^
My post was in response to your question. You asked, 'if the testimony was merely "No God but God", which God is the Muslim testifying to?' I meant it is the God of the scripture the Muslim abide by that he is testifying.

malvisguy212:
why will you send peace and blessing of God to someone who live in the present of God? Or are you not sure he was in heaven? You cannot give your peace to someone who live close to God in heaven. JESUS SAY"MY PEACE I GIVE TO YOU NOT AS THE WORLD GIVETH.

Ovacoma:

Heaven? No murderer, liar, armed robber (caravan raider), womaniser, will enter there. They kno why they send blessing on im.

usermane:
Ashtray

Once upon a time, i found myself recounting some of the havoc by Ayatollah Khomeini; first supreme ruler and cleric of post-revolution Iran adored in the Muslim world as a saint, sage and a kind of messiah. A Muslim woman sitting by rebuked me for slandering a 'noble, learned and exemplary Muslim'. As soon as i began citing my evidences and facts, she insist i drop the subject and respect the dead!

That event exactly captures the state of the Muslim world. Ignorance prevail, out of self-worship Muslims can often be found discussing the ills of the west and ignoring their own ills. Whoever attempt to address the ills in the Muslim society especially radicalism or religious coercion is either rebuked or forced to retreat.

Only last year, a Christian couple alleged to have disposed a copy of Quran were burnt to death in Pakistan, Mariam Ibrahim was sentenced to death and nearly executed for apostasy and adultery in North Sudan, two Churches in Katsina state of Nigeria were burnt down by Muslim mobs over an allegation that a secondary school teacher verbally dishonoured Muhammad during a class, Raif Badawi was arrested and is now serving a 10 year prison term with 1000 lashes for criticising the Saudi state and promoting more liberal, democratic and secular ideas on his blog. How many Muslims talk about these?

The 'noble Imams', the moderate, progressive, democratic, secular, intellectual and peaceful Muslims know this, understand this but never admit and organize to confront this cancerous mindset of dogmatism, fanatism and bigotry that is trending in the Muslim world.


END

Ifeann:


Wow. ..usermane you are no longer making fact based statements.... orthodox christains still cling to their traditions, with the exception of Anglicans. .. but they aren't really orthodox...

Here let me remind you about the current statistics of christains that u said i got wrong. ..

Catholic Church - 1,166[1]−1,229 million
Latin Church - 1,149 million
Catholic Charismatic Renewal - 160 million[2]
Society of St. Pius X - 0.5 million[3]
Personal Ordinariate for former Anglicans - 0.005 million
Eastern Catholic Churches - 17 million
Alexandrian Rite
Ethiopian Catholic Church - 0.2 million[4]
Coptic Catholic Church - 0.2 million[4]
Antiochene Rite
Maronite Catholic Church - 3.1 million[4]
Syro-Malankara Catholic Church - 0.4 million[4]
Syriac Catholic Church - 0.1 million[4]
Armenian Rite
Armenian Catholic Church - 0.4 million[4]
Chaldean Rite
Syro-Malabar Catholic Church - 3.8 million[4]
Chaldean Catholic Church - 0.4 million[4]
Byzantine Rite
Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church - 4.3 million[4]
Melkite Greek Catholic Church - 1.3 million[4]
Romanian Catholic Church - 0.7 million[4]
Ruthenian Catholic Church - 0.5 million[4]
Hungarian Greek Catholic Church - 0.3 million[4]
Slovak Greek Catholic Church - 0.2 million[4]
Italo-Albanian Catholic Church - 0.1 million[4]
Belarusian Greek Catholic Church - 0.1 million[4]
Georgian Byzantine Catholic Church - 0.01 million[5]
Albanian Byzantine Catholic Church - 0.01 million[4]
Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church - 0.01 million[4]
Croatian Greek Catholic Church - 0.01 million[4]
Greek Byzantine Catholic Church - 0.01 million[4]
Macedonian Greek Catholic Church - 0.01 million[4]
Russian Greek Catholic Church - 0.01 million[4]
Breakaway Catholic Churches - 28 million[6]
Philippine Independent Church - 6 million[7]
Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association - 5 million[8]
Brazilian Catholic Apostolic Church - 5 million[9]
Apostolic Catholic Church - 5 million
Old Catholic Church - 0.6 million
Polish National Catholic Church - 0.025 million
Protestantism - 800 million.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members



Here read this also, it is beautiful written and very objective .

http://www.pewforum.org/2011/12/19/global-christianity-exec/

Ifeann:


Back to the point. .no God but God is so vague in all respects. .. when u accept Christ u have to profess it. .When u accept Islam u have to say the hadith approved shahadda. . And that makes sense. .

i don't understand why u reject the hadith when at least 90 percent of Muslims revere commands and stories from it especially the sahih ones. .. can these Muslims all be wrong. .

What kind of a god will allow such deciet to exist in his religion. ..

usermane:


It turn out that Wikipedia confirms my estimate. Didn't i say that orthodox Christians are a minority today compared to the past? Given that Protestanism is a recent movement, decades from now, it will topple Catholicism which along with orthodox Christianity is not as rooted in traditions as in the past. Look at their nations today, secularized and democratized. This isn't the case with orthodox Muslims who carry their tradition up to national level.