Image123:

@bindex
do you have a list of the names of all the scientists in your room,or you have ability to revoke their license.take am easy o.
About miracles,I've told you that you're incapable of understanding them except of course you become spiritual.If you're never seen a miracle and you're so particular about seeing one,simply go to a crusade with sickpeople,chances are that you'll see one.Or travel down to Asia,meet all this people who swallow swords and hang in the air.Anybody can work miracle this days.I bed to this later

All of the "miracles" in the crusades are staged, Until a pastor heals a blind person, a deaf person or an amputee in a varifiable way for all to see I here by declear all the "miracles" people are experiencing in Nigeria as a sham. why arent pastors curing people of Aids and healing the blind in Europe and America? That a lot says everything about the so called "miracles" people are experiecing in Nigeria. Remember that pastor TB Joshua despite all his miracles was unable to heal Daniel Amokachi when he went and meet him for prayers over his injured knee, why is it that unknown faces are able to recieve miracles but known faces(Amokachi) are unable?

People learn how to swallow swords because they trained thair bodys for a long time to be able to accomodate the sword, try and watch the national geographic channel, all these "miraculous" feats have been explained there. People even use their body parts to break wall of blocks, ice, bricks by learing how to concentrate their muscles and apply them forcefully in a particular fashion. No body has ever hanged in the air without some form of support ever, if there is then tell me his/her name. Infact all I need is a picture of such a person. You are really funny

@Image123
I have not posted much on this religion section these days because it has become boring and devoid of very interesting conversations and very interesting people.
As an engineer I want to tell you now that there is no way noah could have built that ark, I have already explained to someone here on nairaland before, there is no way the space inside the ark could have contained all the animals in the world assuming he managed to catch every specie, just catching all the species of insects alone by one man is totally impossible, not to talk of the other families.
My brother I could go on and on and show you just how lethargic it is to believe that the story actually happened, how did lions survive? How did grizzly bears survive? How did the pandas survive? Where did all the rain water come from?(that is if you agree to the scientific explanation of rain) .
I can lead you to wisdom but I cannot force you to think.
Cheers.

@bindex
hi,how was today's service.o,sorry you're atheist.what a pity,you don't believe in miracles and you're desperate to see one.and as desperate as you are,you wouldn't even believe that any miracle in an crusade anywhere can be real.why,you have EVIDENCE that All miracles are stage managed.I'm almost certain you've seen at least 3stage managed miracles live before.That's why you concluded that way. of course,that's the way you rational people do your things.You've been to many different pastors miracle crusades before,you even wrote some of the staged dramas.You truly have Evidence.you done your homework and you've been scored

@chrisbenogor
engineer,hello.Before we enter this travel,do you believe in the supernatural ability of God or any other person so thing for that matter?It would help our discussions if you believed engr.

I wonder if the greasley bear doesnt hyberbate? Even though I am not arguing for the Christians, since I am a muslim. I know that Alla the Almighty is capable of doing all things. The animals could have been shrunk or not. They could have been the babies or not. Since they are believers and only believers were housed by this Vessel, it was not impossible that Allah inspired them to go in there, willingly and each animal in its space.

No one says that they have to eat to survive, throughout the journey. No one says that they have to be wide awake throughout the journey.

Whats so interesting that these disbelieving atheists and agnostics have not thought about is that what form did each animal appeared on earth, when it first appeared. When they ask that questions and get the answers from themsleves, they will know that Allah the Creator can do anything. If He says something happens, I believe it. I do not have to ask how, when, where, etc. If He says something does not happen, I simply and immediately accept it. I don't have to say it did happen because others are beating that drum.

I thought the whole point of this thread is about if God created any human before Adam or separately apart from the bloodline of Adam?

olabowale:

I wonder if the greasley bear doesnt hyberbate? Even though I am not arguing for the Christians, since I am a muslim. I know that Alla the Almighty is capable of doing all things. The animals could have been shrunk or not. They could have been the babies or not. Since they are believers and only believers were housed by this Vessel, it was not impossible that Allah inspired them to go in there, willingly and each animal in its space.

No one says that they have to eat to survive, throughout the journey. No one says that they have to be wide awake throughout the journey.

Whats so interesting that these disbelieving atheists and agnostics have not thought about is that what form did each animal appeared on earth, when it first appeared. When they ask that questions and get the answers from themsleves, they will know that Allah the Creator can do anything. If He says something happens, I believe it. I do not have to ask how, when, where, etc. If He says something does not happen, I simply and immediately accept it. I don't have to say it did happen because others are beating that drum.

Shut up there Olabowale apart from plagiarizing other peoples work what else do the writers of the Koran know?

Bindex: lol.

I beg ol boy, take am easy.

Now tell me in any book that you will read about the fact that Fir'awn's body was preserved for future generation to see?

Tell me if you will find any book that talks about persia to be defeated by the just badly defeated Rome. Hell me any book that has Surah fatiha, Baqarah, Imran, Nisaa, Almaida. You know where i am going with this.

Tell me any book that clearly states and then gives definite reason about Jesus being just an ordinary human; a prophet and a messenger to his people alone.

Bindex, I know you are not a muslim, but you dont have to be dishonest. I stated earlier that you are an example of the silly and dumb belief that all Arewa people are muslims. Now tell me from what Qur'aan is plagiarised from; The Torah, The Sabur or the Injil? Then read each one of them. You will find Qur'aan to be different in details, etc.

Afterall, Yusuf in Qur'aan asked that the wife of his master be asked if he came on to her. That does not happen in the Torah. Qur'aan says that the goodnews of the birth of Isiaq and then Yaqub was given after the Sacrificial test of Ibrahim, of his son Ismail. How can a person who will be expected to grow up to be a father will be killed off at youth? Does it make any sense to call a second son the only son of his father?

Ol boy, think. This is my plagiarization: Think ol boy.

olabowale:

I thought the whole point of this thread is about if God created any human before Adam or separately apart from the bloodline of Adam?

Yeah and it has digressed to the normal question of who is the dumbest? scientists, atheists, agnostics or evangelical christians. lol

@Chris

The bible story of Noah's ark is only believable If you believe in the supernatural and that's that. The story is impossible if we take out 'the God factor' that is why only Christians actually believed it happened although not all Christians agree on the exact sequence of events.

@chrisbenogor
engineer,hello.Before we enter this travel,do you believe in the supernatural ability of God or any other person so thing for that matter?It would help our discussions if you believed engr.

@Chris

The bible story of Noah's ark is only believable If you believe in the supernatural and that's that. The story is impossible if we take out 'the God factor' that is why only Christians actually believed it happened although not all Christians agree on the exact sequence of events.

Why would God then require noah to build an ark and to gather animals?
Sometimes I am really puzzled as to how Christian thinking process is like, I am sure you can see how absurd it sounds that God could not have used the supernatural to just do what he wanted to do.

A Christian would believe that story even if it doesn't make any logical sense because the bible says so and Christians are what they are because they believe the bible is truth irrespective of how un-intelligible it may seem to a rational mind.

Like I wrote earlier, not attributing certain 'holes' in the feasibility of certain stories in the bible to God's influence would just invalidate it as God is being thought of as Omni-'everything'. So Chris, we can all argue on the plausibility of Noah's ark story as being true without reaching a compromise because like Image123 said if you do not believe a God exists then we do not have a basis to argue. It is only when someone decides to insist it can happen naturally(and goes at great length to spew scientific dribble)that daggers can be drawn.

Are we now saying we know science more than God ? The truth is that the confusion arise due to interference of humans with the word of God. Adam and Eve are truly the first two humans created by God.

reservoir:

Are we now saying we know science more than God ? The truth is that the confusion arise due to interference of humans with the word of God. Adam and Eve are truly the first two humans created by God.

The bibleGod, but not the Hindu Gods or other Gods.

ow11:

A Christian would believe that story even if it doesn't make any logical sense because the bible says so and Christians are what they are because they believe the bible is truth irrespective of how un-intelligible it may seem to a rational mind.

Like I wrote earlier, not attributing certain 'holes' in the feasibility of certain stories in the bible to God's influence would just invalidate it as God is being thought of as Omni-'everything'. So Chris, we can all argue on the plausibility of Noah's ark story as being true without reaching a compromise because like Image123 said if you do not believe a God exists then we do not have a basis to argue. It is only when someone decides to insist it can happen naturally(and goes at great length to spew scientific dribble)that daggers can be drawn.

How is port harcourt Ow11, the transport situation is pretty awful.
I know Christians believe with the power of God everything is possible, is there anywhere where he it says he built it with the angels or with the power of God or something?
Even at that brother it still does not make sense, if God wanted to intervene in the building of the ark and with the selection of the animals, why not just zap all the bad people on the earth?He could have done it with very great precision since you say he is Omni everything. My point is adding the supernatural to this story only makes it more absurd and I stand that an Omni max being cannot and will not result to such circumstances to destroy the world.

I have also raised the issue of God being an Omni max being on Nairaland and I showed how all those Omni max properties contradicted each other, true I don't believe the Christian God exists, but surely that will not make every christian retreat from a healthy discussion, or are you going to attribute all the mistakes in the bible to the power of God? the fact that there are stumbling blocks everywhere when searching for the historical Jesus? or the fact that the bible contains so much inhumane practices to t he power of God?

Cheers bro.

Although this thread has veered off to the question of whether the christian God exist or not, that is not the intention. We are only to examine the veracity of the records written by (Moses?) in Genesis for accuracy as regards how Cain was able to spread his seed without conjecture.

I feel there is some lacuna in that story or Moses? did not properly research the Jewish legend where the story came from.

@Ovamboland
actually mr,there's no gap in the narrative.The fact is simply that Adam had many other sons and daughters who like him lived above 500yrs.They migrated according to God's command and were very fruitful,GOD made them so.they lived long enough to see different generations.Simply because the bible doesn't write their biographies doesn't mean they were not there.The bible says they were there.Genesis 5v4. And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years.and he begat sons and daughters.

Image123:

@Ovamboland
actually mr,there's no gap in the narrative.The fact is simply that Adam had many other sons and daughters who like him lived above 500yrs.They migrated according to God's command and were very fruitful,GOD made them so.they lived long enough to see different generations.Simply because the bible doesn't write their biographies doesn't mean they were not there.The bible says they were there.Genesis 5v4. And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years.and he begat sons and daughters.

The absurdities just continue

@chrisbenogor
your unbelief is so clear,amazing

from:  Ovamboland on December 23, 2008, 11:38 AM

This question always intrigue me whenever i consider it. It has made it difficult for me to accept the Genesis creation account as literal.
It seems more symbolic that a factual blow by blow account of human creation as it actually happened.

Read Genesis 4: 1 - 17 from here, i am not clear of the land of Nod and it's founder and how Cain's wife came to be. Was there more than one creation? or were there another group of people on earth before Adam and Eve were created?

Your honest answers to these questions are most welcome to help throw more light on the creation account.

@Ovamboland,

If you sincerely want to know the answers to your question, then I will advise you to read all about it in the link suggested below, and if you are still in doubt then make it known so that we can elaborate further.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/who-was-cains-wife

@Ovamboland,

Should I take your silence to my response to mean that your questions have been answered?  And if not do you care to share with us your objections?

the guy keep saying we must accept it simply beacause it is written.

I will study it further with the Bible and come up with what i understand
thanks

Ovamboland:

the guy keep saying we must accept it simply beacause it is written.

I will study it further with the Bible and come up with what i understand
thanks

I did not see where the guy forced us to accept his explanation, all he did was explain logically using the written Word of God as he went along.  All you need to do is to drag your mouse (cursor) over the chapter and verse suggested in the hyperlink and you will be able to read what was written in the Word.  I will be expecting you to come up with what you understand if you really wanted to know the answers to your questions.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/who-was-cains-wife

OLAADEGBU:

I did not see where the guy forced us to accept his explanation, all he did was explain logically using the written Word of God as he went along. All you need to do is to drag your mouse (cursor) over the chapter and verse suggested in the hyperlink and you will be able to read what was written in the Word. I will be expecting you to come up with what you understand if you really wanted to know the answers to your questions.

That web link explains nothing at all, Its a christain apologist that is trying to use the bible and some convoluted facts to prove non existent points.

@bindex,

It will not make any sense to you if you have wilfully closed your eyes to the gospel truth and have already made up your mind not to see the light, why then will you want to confuse yourself with the facts?  But for those who are diligently and ardently seeking for answers with the right attitude and disposition of heart, I say ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find and knock and it shall be opened unto you.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/who-was-cains-wife

Bindex, am still waiting for your proof of which book or books the Qur'aan plagiarized. Ol boy, I will nound you until you confess your follies.

olabowale:

Bindex, am still waiting for your proof of which book or books the Qur'aan plagiarized. Ol boy, I will nound you until you confess your follies.

The bible and the mostly the Torah you deluded slave of Allah.

@Bindex: Show me, side by side a verse that the Qur'aan plagiarized, from either Bible or Torah, against the Bible or Torah Verse. Then analyse it yourself and we should know that the Original has to have more substance and better constructed than the copy.

Now you will see that, you Bindex, don't know what you are talking about. Am waiting, because a mere and empty rhetoric will not so here. Mr. Atheist thinks he will get away scott-free. No, man. it aint gonna be easy. You threw the gaunlet, you gotta walk the plank, now. Lol.

Caution, everyone: He will make me wait a whole week, before attempting to give a lame entry, pretending to have answered by challenge. Abeg, Ol Boy, quicken your foot steps. Am too Old to wait all day in the Cold for nothing.

olabowale:

@Bindex: Show me, side by side a verse that the Qur'aan plagiarized, from either Bible or Torah, against the Bible or Torah Verse. Then analyse it yourself and we should know that the Original has to have more substance and better constructed than the copy.

Now you will see that, you Bindex, don't know what you are talking about. Am waiting, because a mere and empty rhetoric will not so here. Mr. Atheist thinks he will get away scott-free. No, man. it aint gonna be easy. You threw the gaunlet, you gotta walk the plank, now. Lol.

Caution, everyone: He will make me wait a whole week, before attempting to give a lame entry, pretending to have answered by challenge. Abeg, Ol Boy, quicken your foot steps. Am too Old to wait all day in the Cold for nothing.

The problem is that you are more deluded than I initially thought, now I know that you will come up with the delusional line and popular moslem mantra that Abraham, Moses, Job, Noah, Elijah, Jesus and all the other Jewish patraiachs are Moslems and slaves of Allah, Pls get real and stop drinking the koranic cool aide. All the koranic stories were copied from the Jewish Tarnakh end of story.

@Bindex:

Abraham, Moses, Job, Noah, Elijah, Jesus

Definitely, Abraham, who should be addressed as Ibrahim (AS), is obviously not "Jewish or Jew," in religion or ethnicity.

If you make this obvious mistake, then I wonder where reality is for you. Let me share something with you. The ethnicity of Ibrahim, who was born in a city state/civilization of Mesopotamia of today's Iraq, could never have been a Jew. Jew as an ethnicity came even after the name Judah, who is one of the male sons of Jacob. Jacob was a grand son of Ibrahim. Could my great grandfather bear the ethnic group formed from the first name of my son? Could my greatgrandfather be called a person from Olayiwola, or is Olayiwola, through my blood, which is in turn through my father's blood, which in turn through his fathers blood, which in turn by virtue of the patriachial lineage connection, Olayiwola must claim that he is from my great grandfather's named group?

And when was the religion known as Judaism started? It can't until the person know as Judah, a son of Jacob became dominant in the cultural rhetorics of the Children of Israel. This will not come about, Judea, Jew and judaism until the death of the son of Solomon, who after his death, you had two nations known as Israel and Judea!

Go and read the Bible, again. And when you find the truth, don't be ashamed to reenter Islam. And when you do, bring mom, along. Then get married. If you can't find a wife, talk to me. I will find you a strong woman, who will help rebuild you up, brick by brick.

And in the other matters, about Job, and Elijah, Jesus, Moses, etc, you must know that an hausa man is an Arewa man, but still a Nigerian, an African and a human being. Just because a person is Jewish by bloodline, can be assumed he is by religion. The christian believes that Jesus is by bloodline alone, but not by religion. If they believe he is also by religion, then it behoves me and anyone with critical thought that the Christian could abandone the religion of Jesus and choose something else. Will they not understand that they oppose their lord god by abandoning his religion?

The muslims on the other hand say that all prophets, Jewish or not; (the none Jews include from your list Noah, Ibrahim, at least because these came before Judah, the son of Jacob), are believers, because they are the messengers and or prophets of God on earth. They are the ones given instructions to pass to man, while they themselves strictly practice the same where applicable.

It is only in the case of muhammad, a non Jewish messenger and Prophet (AS) that we see the whole of mankind was inclusive, instead of tribes, or ethnic people. Proof; the letters of Muhammad (AS) to Kings, and Emperors of other nations and kingdoms inviting them to Islam.

Go and study. And come back. I asked you to give me Verses, you have not be able to do so. A single verse, word for word, with Qur'aanic verse not superior in message or exegese to the Bible, Torah or whatever book you claim will be enough. If the verse in the Qur'aan is not inferior, which should have been the case, is okay. But should never be better than the original. But if it is better, in tone, style, message, etc, then can it be a plagiarised material?

olabowale:

@Bindex:
Definitely, Abraham, who should be addressed as Ibrahim (AS), is obviously not "Jewish or Jew," in religion or ethnicity.

If you make this obvious mistake, then I wonder where reality is for you. Let me share something with you. The ethnicity of Ibrahim, who was born in a city state/civilization of Mesopotamia of today's Iraq, could never have been a Jew. Jew as an ethnicity came even after the name Judah, who is one of the male sons of Jacob. Jacob was a grand son of Ibrahim. Could my great grandfather bear the ethnic group formed from the first name of my son? Could my greatgrandfather be called a person from Olayiwola, or is Olayiwola, through my blood, which is in turn through my father's blood, which in turn through his fathers blood, which in turn by virtue of the patriachial lineage connection, Olayiwola must claim that he is from my great grandfather's named group?

And when was the religion known as Judaism started? It can't until the person know as Judah, a son of Jacob became dominant in the cultural rhetorics of the Children of Israel. This will not come about, Judea, Jew and judaism until the death of the son of Solomon, who after his death, you had two nations known as Israel and Judea!

Go and read the Bible, again. And when you find the truth, don't be ashamed to reenter Islam. And when you do, bring mom, along. Then get married. If you can't find a wife, talk to me. I will find you a strong woman, who will help rebuild you up, brick by brick.

And in the other matters, about Job, and Elijah, Jesus, Moses, etc, you must know that an hausa man is an Arewa man, but still a Nigerian, an African and a human being. Just because a person is Jewish by bloodline, can be assumed he is by religion. The christian believes that Jesus is by bloodline alone, but not by religion. If they believe he is also by religion, then it behoves me and anyone with critical thought that the Christian could abandone the religion of Jesus and choose something else. Will they not understand that they oppose their lord god by abandoning his religion?

The muslims on the other hand say that all prophets, Jewish or not; (the none Jews include from your list Noah, Ibrahim, at least because these came before Judah, the son of Jacob), are believers, because they are the messengers and or prophets of God on earth. They are the ones given instructions to pass to man, while they themselves strictly practice the same where applicable.

It is only in the case of muhammad, a non Jewish messenger and Prophet (AS) that we see the whole of mankind was inclusive, instead of tribes, or ethnic people. Proof; the letters of Muhammad (AS) to Kings, and Emperors of other nations and kingdoms inviting them to Islam.

Go and study. And come back. I asked you to give me Verses, you have not be able to do so. A single verse, word for word, with Qur'aanic verse not superior in message or exegese to the Bible, Torah or whatever book you claim will be enough. If the verse in the Qur'aan is not inferior, which should have been the case, is okay. But should never be better than the original. But if it is better, in tone, style, message, etc, then can it be a plagiarised material?

I personally do not believe in any of those legends but you really have some convoluted points up your sleeves.