When he started the struggle, he was dis­missed as one trying to make a living out of it but today, Chief Ralph Uwazuruike, the leader of the Movement for the Actualisation ofSovereign State of Biafra (MASSOB) is a force to listen to not only in Southeast Nigeria but across the country. In this interview withPETER AGBA KALU, the Biafra republic advocate bares his mind on the next phase of his sruggle to secure an independent nation forNdigbo. He boasted that President Goodluck Jonathan will not only win the forthcoming presidential election but that the Igbo will support him for a third term in 2019. Excerpts:You look calm, yet you are at the forefront of a tough strug­gle…?(Cuts in, then a prolonged laugh­ter). Well, people say this always and I get amused because I don’t know. That’s my nature; that’s how I live. I don’t fake, I live my normal life. I’m naturally a quiet person.Just when critics were al­most dismissing you,you turned out to be a great man?Well, if you say so, thank you very much but it’sthe grace of God. First and foremost, I wanted to create an impression. Those who thought I was a riff-raff were those who didn’t know meab initio. People who knew me knew I wasn’t a riff-raff. One, I am a lawyer. As at now, I’m getting up to 30 years at the bar.They said you don’t have certificates?Well, let the person go to the Ni­gerian Law School. I went to the Ni­gerian Law School when it was only one in Nigeria, Victoria Island,La­gos. So, I was called to the bar with others. Most of my mates today are judges in the High Courts. I have so many friends in the Law School. So, those who said I was a riff-raff were those who didn’t know me. I wasn’t really a hungry lawyer and I still say it up till today. All the facilities and offices we’re using today in MAS­SOB are all my property. And I ac­quired them before I started MASS­SOB. Right from Lagos, Okigwe, Aba.. name it, all these facilities are still being used up till today.Our head office in Lagos is my property. It is a four-storey building. In Okigwe, it is my property, it was burnt, it’s still there dilapidated. I acquired all these properties when I was not yet a MASSOB leader, when I had not started MASSOB. So, when you don’t know some­body, you can always say anything about him. Do you understand? So, if you say that our people have come to realise that I’m real, I’m happy. I thank God for that because I know what I was looking for. I knew my destination. I sacrificed myself for the wellbeing of my people. In the Igbo parlance,eji gom onwe m tua aja.( I have sacrificed myself to my people)My mates today are in the Senate, some are governors, some are this and that but I don’t regret it. I have sealed my ambition for my people. It is not everybody that would go to Abuja and be this and that. I said to my people “I will serve you” and I have been serving my people.And in serving my people, I have also been ridiculed. I have been called names but it doesn’t perturb me because a leader is like a waste basket wherein everybody throws rubbish. So, what matters are: am I serving my people well? Am I really working as I’m expected to work for my people? That is my concern and not what anybody says.This is because I did not consult people when Itook my decision to serve my people. I was notelected into this position. This is a cross I constructed myself and I am car­rying. Nobodygave me the cross; nobody forced me to carry the cross. I constructed the cross myself and I am carrying it. So, if it’s heavy on me I won’t complain because nobody forced me to carry the cross. I don’t envy anybody who is a president, or anybody who is a Senate President or anybody for that matter. I know some of my mates who are multi-bil­lionaires who were actually below me when I was not into the struggle.So, I was even dashing money to those that aremulti billionaires. I don’t envy them because I’m serving my people. And I take joy in servingmy people. With the little I make I invest in serving my people. Like the Okwe that I built forthe rehabilita­tion of Biafran disabled. I am not the richest Igbo man; there are millions of rich Igbo men out there. They didn’t see the need torehabilitate the soldiers that fought for all of us.They were languishing at Oji River, but I boughteverything, built houses for them and they’re there to­day. I am seeing to their wellbeing; they have students in the universi­ties. I’m paying them salaries so as to pay for their students in the universi­ties. There are up to 120 students. No Igbo man has asked for the past four years or five years whether they’re eating. I was giving them whatever I gather to make sure they’re eating because they suffered for our people.When you started this strug­gle, were you ready to die?Yes, of course! To be honest with you, I never thought I would live up to today. When I started, I thought I would die in the next 30 days. It was by the grace of God. I thought I would die in the next 40 days. I nev­er knew; I never dreamt of being alive today. It was just by the grace of God that I’m alive. I thank God for it.You know it was during Obasanjo’s regime andyou know who Obasanjo is and Obasanjo was the last person who wanted to hear about Biafra. There was nothing this man didn’t do tokill me. It was that time that I had high belief in God that God is great. There was nothing Obasanjo didn’t do to kill me.Can you give instances?Yes. There was one time they were carrying me from; they picked me in my house and they detained me in Shagisha, Lagos. Early in the morning, they took me to Abuja by road. There was no fuel scarcity, yet they bought fuel in gallons, in jerry cans which they packed in the booth of the car- a station wagon.Along the line, they didn’t know how to carry out the operation. At the place they planned to carry out the operations, they came out, ran outof the car, took their positions to shoot at the car. From no where, a truck load of mobile policemen landed. And immediately I saw them I start­ed shouting because I was in hand­cuffs and leg cuffs. These people ran away into the bush.Then the leader of the truckload of mobile policemen came to me and asked what’s the problem? And I said, I am Ralph Uwazuruike. The man said “you are the MAS­SOB guy?” andI said “yes.” These people picked me up and now they wanted to kill me here. And the man asked, “Why are they running?” And I replied, “I don’t know”. And he started calling on them to come out from hiding. They came out, took himaside and whispered something to him. The man didn’t want to listen to them because, you know it was like they were telling him they weresecurity men. The man brought them to me and asked them, “why did you run away in the first place? What is the problem, why did you leave him in the car?”They wanted to speak to him pri­vately. At a point the man said, “okay fine. Put him in the vehicle and all of us will escort you.” Do you know, they escorted us until we reached SSS headquarters in Abuja. If not for these policemen, I would have been killed that day.Obasanjo risked his life to fight for one Nigeria.He fought during the civil war to make sure the nation was not divided. And here you came trying to divide it?Up till today the issue of division of Nigeria is still on the table. Out­side what I’m doing, that is whatBoko Haramis doing. There’s no way you can make an omelette with­out breaking an egg. You can’t talk of unity without justice. Dividing Ni­geria is a matter of justice. Because Nigeria was fabricated from no where. They brought the Northern and Southern protectorates together for a trial of about 100 years.All along people have been say­ing we cannot live together. After 40 years, Ojukwu brought Biafra up till today people are still saying that. The popularity of the concept grows on a daily basis. People who were accus­ing Ojukwu thattime have come to­day to say “Oh that would have been the best option”. Now those who were opposing it, the Hausa-Fulani, they’re the people that are saying they want their own republic – Is­lamic Republic.So, if you say somebody fought for the unity of Nigeria, which unity of Nigeria?

GEJ is the only aspirant i see, cos buhari might die in london heard he is in coma

You don’t fight for the unity of any system. You don’t fight for anything. Just like I used to ask people: you say one Nigeria, have you heard Americans saying one America or the British saying one Britain? You say one Nigeria be­cause there’s nothing in the oneness. It is mere fabrication. Ifthere is one Nigeria we won’t be pronouncing it; we won’t be shouting Nigeria. Do you say one Ghana, I mean in West Africa? Do you say one South Afri­ca?No?Eheh! They’re saying it in Nigeria because people are being cheated. They are saying it because it is out of malapropism. It’s not the norm. You know people are dissenting to it. They are harping on it because they want people to follow when nobody wants to follow because there is no oneness in Nigeria.You don’t mould something out of nothing. Nothing brings Nigeria to­gether. There are no indices to bring Nigeria together. If there are indices nobody would talk about one Nige­ria. If there are things to build Nige­ria together nobody would talk about one Nigeria. Because we know that there’s nothing like one Nigeria. Nigeria is a situation where you rob Peter to pay Paul, where a President must come from your own ethnic group. He is not coming to work for everybody, he is coming to work for your own interest.That is why the Hausa man wants the President to come from his own backyard. The Igbo man wants him to come from his own backyard. The Yoruba man too wants, why? If it is one Nigeria, any President can be for everybody. Because it is not one, nobody believes in that one Nigeria.That is why everybody wants him to be from his own kindred. Do you understand what I’m saying? So, the word or term ‘one Nigeria’ is amorphous. So if you say Obasanjo fought for one Nigeria, it is deceitful.He fought for one Nigeria when a particular race is being killed all over the federation. And they said instead of killing us let us go and you said no you cannot go. You cannot be on your own. And they were mas­sacring them both in the North and in the West. There must be justice. The oneness must be justified. So, the one Nigeria they fought for was a mistake because it was fought out of bad, ill-feeling. Not because of natu­ral justice.Do you understand me? And again, the formingof the so-called Nigeria by Lord Luggard was borne out of bad faith. He wanted to merge the two protectorates together be­cause the Southern protectorates can produce what could be used to administer the Northern protectorate that was docile.So, you’re saying the North is docile?Yes. For administrative purpos­es they mergedthe South with the North so as to collect the resources of the South to manage the North. That was out of hard conscience. The forming of Nigeria was in bad faith, that is why God did not let this contraption be. That is why they’re having crises today. Because God did not bless that marriage. It was done to cheat the South to favour the North. There was cheating. Lord Luggard did it out of bad faith. He did not do it to benefit both sides. He did it to benefit only one side.As hard and convincing as you sound, it looks like you have compromised?Regarding what? Compromised in what aspect?Your radical stand on noth­ing but Biafra seems to be shifting?How? No! Nothing like that! How? Shifting at what? I can never shift. Have I stopped talking about Biafra?You keep on talking about Biafra but somehow,before you were against elections, but you seem to have sym­pathy for President Jonathan now?No! no-no-no. Let me tell you something President Jonathan, let me say this, I was one of the firstNdi Igbothat started supporting Jonathan immediately Ojukwu was buried. AndI told myself for the role Jonathan played in giving Ojukwu state burial, I will support him until he leaves government. I started that time to tell people thatNdi Igboshould support Jonathan for only that reason. And I will continue to support Jonathan even if he wants to go for a third term, fourth term, fifth term. I will support him for that hon­our he gave to Ojukwu, our leader.I’m not supporting him because he built a railway or because he had rehabilitated airports or he built schools foralmajiris, no. I’m sup­porting him because of the honour he bestowed onNdi Igbovia Ojukwu.So after 2019, if Jonathan wants to amend the constitu­tion and run for third term you will stillsupport him?I will support him. And I urgeNdi Igboto support him because of that thing he did for our leader.What is this Biafran number plate all about?You see, non-violence and that is what I urge every Igbo man. Non-vi­olence is the only option through which the independence of Biafra could be actualised. In getting our plate numbers, we are trying to dis­associate ourselves from Nigeria and to tell the whole world where we are.It is not only number plates. We have our own party. We have our own international passports. We want to say we are Biafrans. And that is what I’m saying. Instead of killing innocent people like is being done in the North byBoko Haram, don’t kill people but say, “I don’t believe in this system. I have my own system.”If in Nigeria today, there is MAS­SOB, in the North you have another group that says they don’t believe in Nigeria, in the West another group will say they don’t believe in Nige­ria, you see, Nigeria will scatter. But the idea of killing innocent people, I don’t like it. And that is why at times it looks to you as if I am inactive. No, it’s only when you shoot a gun and then people would shout that people have died. It would seem as if that person is more powerful.He’s not more powerful, any per­son can carry a gun and shoot another person and that person dies. It’s not unique to do that. But it is unique if you’re a non-violence crusader. If you’re armed, you protect your­self, it’s ok. But if you’re not violent you’re vulnerable to attack. You’re a great person, you’re a great man if you’re not violent than if you’re vio­lent. Do youunderstand me?So, the idea of a plate number is to tell the world we have our system, they have their system. We’re differ­ent from them, we don’t associate with them. Rather than fight and kill people we stay on our own and do our own thing.With all due respect, why am I getting this feeling that I’m discussing with a hypocrite?How?Can I see your number plates? Are they Biafrannum­ber plate numbers?Yes, sure!Are you serious?Definitely, yes, sure. But I don’t think anyone is here now. If you can come next time, because our meeting is day after tomorrow, you can seethem.Ok. But I mean your private cars, are they Biafran num­bers?We have just launched it. That’s what I’m telling you. My cars are here, they are covered. But from after tomorrow, I will fix them.Do you know most of these things you’re doingare influ­encing some of the Igbo boys round the world to burn their Nigerian passports?Yes, of course. Because they keep on burning it and sending me the vid­eo.Even leaders, our national leaders are joining the Biafra agitation. A person like Ikedife, a noble Igbo man has joined the struggle for Biafra. I told you that the struggle is getting status by the day. Today, go to the internet andsee people talking about Biafra. That is what I single-handed­ly started.And you were being looked down on?Yes. I was being looked down on. Everybody now is getting intoxicated about Biafra. And that’s to my plea­sure. I’m so happy about that. Today, do you know how many factions that we have? Everybody wants to be MASSOB leader; everybody wants to be Biafran leader. That’s my hap­piness.You’re happy about it?Oh my God, yes.You’re not envious?Ah my God, why should I be? I will be very stupid if I’m envious.Now, the message is sinking. Right?Yes. Supposing for instance no­body came to talk about Biafra or MASSOB after 15years, I will be a stupid person. I won’t pass in the street. People would look at me and say look atthis stupid man. Nobody bought his idea, nobody listened. To­day everybody wants to be a Biafran; everybody wants to identify himself as a Biafran.There are these Igbo boys who told me they’re ready to be suicide bomb­ers for the sake of Biafra?Yes, yes. You see, that’s what I am telling you. The thing was in them but they

I tot they ar nt Nigerian

didn’t know how to pronounce it until I came out, they watched me for almost 10 years and when they saw that I didn’t die, everybody came out. They were all afraid.This is an indictment of the previous government, because if the govern­ments wereliving up to expectation not just the Goodluck Jonathan govern­ment but the previous governments; if they were living up to expectations there shouldn’t have been this agita­tion for Biafra. What do you think?Well, nothing is greater than freedom. All over the world, look at nations, you won’t know how many countries have been liberated today untilwhen there is an International Olympic or worldcup and so on. Nothing is greater than independence. Even if you have the best gov­ernment, people want to be on their own and have their own say.Take for instance in Nigeria where you see a Muslim waking up to kill another person say­ing it’s part of his religion. Whether you believe it or not, he has done it. If you kill somebody, you go to heaven and he’s killing aninnocent person. That is not our idea of life. Don’t think that a person who practises such religion is also akin to mine. I will like to stay on my own where if I sleep, I will know that nobody will wake up in the night to kill me saying that he is appeasing his God.It is natural that you would want to stay on your own. Look at all over the world today, moreover in Nigeria, take for instance Ndi Igbo,whenever there is a fracas in the North, who suffers? The Igbo. If it is in Lagos, who suffers?The Igbo. Even if there is a cartoon in Jamaica about Islam, Igbo in the North – Kano, Kaduna will bear the brunt. Then what type of government would you put in place to stop this?Are you in support of the Igbo in the North coming back because of the pos­sible outcome of the elections?But have you forgotten that I sent buses to the North?Really?Yes. Not ordinary buses. Luxurious buses.How do you earn your income?Oh thank God, God gives the money.God doesn’t mint money. Give me practical answer?(Prolonged laughter) So, you don’t believe in the mystery of God?I believe but God doesn’t mint mon­ey. There must be a mechanism; there must be something on ground?You know one thing, if God performs a mir­acle; it shows in that miracle that I believe in God.You’re evading my question?What I’m saying is what I want to point to you is that with God everything is possible.You’re not a pastor, so don’t cajole me with religion?Well, I’m not a pastor but I have that belief.I am not taking you on that. Be prac­tical. Some people are most eager to hear about thisfrom you?Most of the things we do, let me tell you when people come to Ojukwu Centre here the library for instance, some ask; is it a federal government project? Some say no-no, no stategovernment. But we have done it, MASSAOB has done it.And from what I saw on ground at that Ojukwu Centre, you must have sunk over N500million there?There is nothing like N500m, it’s an under­statement. We have invested over N1.3 billion on that project.That must be more than that I ac­cept. All the marbles, big halls, very expensive and expansive land, it takes me back to my question, Chief Ralph Uwazuruike, how do you make your money?And I answered you.You told me God?That God gives the money. There’s nothing youdo on earth without the power of God that you will succeed. Do you understand? It’s not all about; you know, I’m not a magician. I’m not a businessman. I’m in this struggle 24/7. So I say it now, quote me if there is any politician in Nigeria that is giving me money in whatever way let him say it.I understand in 2011 Jonathan gave you $2 million?Ask him now. Ask Jonathan if he had giv­en me one naira before, let him say it. Or any governor for that matter. Actually the only gov­ernor I can say that brought some money here when this property fell down was Peter Obi.Serious?Yes. It was Peter Obi that brought some money. Very little money anyway but I cannot say. No other person.In the last census, you worked against your people and it’s affecting the econ­omy of the East. Chekwas Okorie said you mobilized MASSOB people to go and be beating those National Popu­lation Commission staff. And because of this, Igbo were not properly counted and affecting federal allocation, invest­ments and every other thing we get. Chief, why did you do that against your people?No, no, no. It was caused by the governors. The governors then said that Uwazuruike was a nobody, that they were in control in the SouthEast, that Uwazuruike and his MASSOB mem­bers were touts. And I said okay let’s show it that we were in control of the masses.But you said a leader takes rubbish. So because of selfish and self-centred ego you worked against your people?No, no, no! It’s not so. I was even in pris­on then. I was in Keffi prison when that insult was done. But what I’m telling you is this, the governors instead of coming to ask MASSOB, okay please let’s agree on this. Because we said we’re not embarking, we’re Biafrans we’re not going for census.Instead of the governors coming to tell us let us reach an agreement, they said leave them they won’t do anything. So I said okay. I kept quiet. I was in prison, will I be in prison and tell people what to do? So there was a census and it didn’t work the way they wanted. The case is still in the courts.In 2007, Ikedi Ohakim came pleading and you gave him support and he won. When I came back, you were having problems with him and when you took me to Okwe you were talking about mobilizing your people for Rochas Okorocha. And you told me Rochas would win and I never believed you. But he won. But you’re falling out with Rochas again. Is the problem with you or with the politicians?No, no, no! It’s with the politicians. In the case of Rochas, when he came to my house he told me he wanted to come out for Senate, I told him come and be a governor.Are you serious?Yes, of course. I took him to Ojukwu’s house that same day, I drove him in my own car.When he came to your house, where?In Owerri here.You took him to Ojukwu’s house, you drove him, where?To Enugu now.You and Rochas and you drove him to Enugu?I drove him in my car here. Ask P.C. Onuoha from Mbaise. He was at the back of my car to Enugu. We arrived Ojukwu’s house around 2 p.m. So, I begged Ojukwu to give him the ticket and he refused. He said he was not a true Igbo man. But I pleaded with him and Ojukwu said, okay go and give him the ticket.It was in my house in the village that I gave him the ticket. That was not the problem; the problem was that he abandoned APGA and went to APC.That’s your annoyance with him?Yes, he left APGA and went to APC.But before he left APGA, you had already started having problems with him. And I have this feeling that it was because he refused to settle you?(Laughter) No-no-no. It’s not true. It’s not about settling me. Most of the things one does is not all about money. You know all along he had been failing elections and when I supported him, he won. He’s a governor today. Now I am not supporting him, you will see the difference (prolonged laughter).Let me ask you something. Each time I come to interview you I always intend to provoke you but when I throw out these questions you’re not provokedI mean, you’re a journalist, you should know the facts at times, most of the time. You may even know the answer to the questions. The issue is, if you’re serving the people, if you’re working for the people, you think of the interest of the people. I’m looking at it from the point of view that I have suffered too much in poli­tics and that if it’s money we will not support people.So, back to Rochas?So, I said okay I will support you now and the difference would be made. And the difference was made. Soon he abandoned that system, he insulted Ojukwu, insulted everybody and jumped to APC.Which was what Ojukwu warned you about?Ojukwu told me in his presence that this man you brought now he would divide the party into two and take half.That was what Ojukwu said?Yes, in the presence of Bianca. Ask her. Ask P.C. Onuoha, P.C. Onuoha was there. The rest were in the parlour. It was only him, P.C. Onuo­ha and me and Bianca.What was his response when this a

What was his response when this ac­cusation was made?Nothing, nothing. Today, the thing Ojukwu said happened. Then how would I be happy?Do you think Biafra will come true in your lifetime?I am begging God. It is God that knows. He’s the only person that can tell.Is the zeal still there among your people?Why not? That’s what I’m praying for. That’s what I’m working for. And that’s what I will work for until my last day.There is this accusation that you abandoned Biafran members in deten­tion?Ah, no-no, it is not true. Remember I was in detention when my mother died. And I was giv­en 90 days to go and bury my mother and come back. But I used about 70 days and went back to prison. And they refused. They left theiroffice and ran away in Owerri here. It was wrong to say I abandoned my members. When I went to Enugu for a ceremony with Bianca, some of my members were arrested and I said I wouldn’t go home leaving my members. I went to the po­lice station and told them to putme inside the cell too. They said no. So, I’m notthat kind of a leader that would abandon his people. For what?Even as I’m speaking with you now, I am not sohappy that I have not gone to prison for some time now.Are you serious?Yes, of courseWhat’s your take on Buhari, the APC presidential candidate?No! Buhari will not win. He will not win when I am supporting Jonathan.You’re supporting Jonathan?You see, there’s one thing I want to tell you. I hold theofo Ndi Igboand thatofomeans a lot. Thatofois here. Ojukwu was holding it before he died. Whoever I’m supporting must win; Jonathan must win. Sure banker. It amuses me when people say APC will win, Buhari will win. Jonathan must win with a landslide because I hold theofo Igbo. As I have said, because of the national state burial he gave to Ojukwu, he will continue to win. He must win; he has already won. You will see, when he wins, I will call you and ask you, you see what Isaid.

GEJ ebey ahno.Vote GEJ for continuation of his transformation agenda.