malvisguy212:
let me ask you, does your lord pray ? ( Muhammed say yes, let us here yours)

He doesn't pray to anybody.. he only sends His blessings to whoever he will..
Oya go and copy your trash as usual, just don't scatter my head with your stupîd english..

Scholar8200:
God's Name is the emphasis there. We also have God, Lord mentioned in the Bible but His Unique and Exalted Name was revealed.

The absence thereof in the Quran (that claims Bible prophets who never used the name Allah) establishes that Yahweh is not the Allah of the Quran.

Yahweh is not the Hebrew word for God!

Besides, the red highlighted was NEVER allowed in the OT!

You are very wrong there! I had initially started typing a reply before I decided to just round up. Jesus was, is and shall ever be the Only Begotten of the Father. (As agrees the OT and NT)

If I point to prophecies and sayings of OT people and you can say nothing to counter it factually but still hold to your beliefs, then it further proves to me that Yahweh is not Allah, Jesus Christ is not Isa, David is not (whatever he is called in arabic), Isaiah etc; hence there is no point proceeding with the discussion !

For example

Psalm 110 :1 speaks of The Lord saying to the Lord, sit .. at My right hand...

Matthew 22:42-44 Jesus confirms that place as the Father speaking concerning the Messiah-Him!

The passage there in Hebrew and Greek clearly establishes that neither of the [size=15pt]Two[/size] were created; John reinforces this and further clarifies that the Messiah is actually the latter in Psalm 110:1 made flesh for the purpose of Redemption, but had been with the Father from the begnning,

the Messiah is actually the latter in Psalm 110:1 made flesh for the purpose of Redemption, but had been with the Father from the begnning,

As if this was not enough, Malvis quoted Micah 5:2

“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Too little to be among the clans of Judah;
From you One shall come forth for Me [who is] to be Ruler in Israel,
His goings forth (appearances) are from long ago,
From [a]ancient days.”


And Jesus confirmed the highlighted when He said ,''before Abraham was, I Am''.

If with all these you hold on to your views, then I submit that the GOD we know Whose Name as revealed is Yahweh (this is not translated as God dont get it mixed up), is not your Allah.

Rilwayne001:


He doesn't pray to anybody.. he only sends His blessings to whoever he will..
Oya go and copy your trash as usual, just don't scatter my head with your stupîd english..

Rilwayne001:


Can you please open a thread and lets discuss TRINITY separately. I will like to address those verses but i can't assure you of constant posting cus I am busy.

Scholar8200:
God's Name is the emphasis there. We also have God, Lord mentioned in the Bible but His Unique and Exalted Name was revealed.
Empiree:
What is Unique?. What is Exalted?

Unique: being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else.

Exalted: (of a person or their rank or status) placed at a high or powerful level; held in high regard.



The word Allah, according to several Arabic lexicons, means "the Being Who comprises all the attributes of perfection", i.e. the Being Who is perfect in every way (in His knowledge, power etc.), and possesses the best and the noblest qualities imaginable in the highest degree. This meaning is supported by the Holy Quran when it says:


"His are the best (or most beautiful) names." (17:110; 20:8; and 7:180)


Contrary to popular belief, the word Allah is NOT a contraction of al-ilah (al meaning 'the', and ilah meaning 'god'). Had it been so, then the expression ya Allah ('O Allah!') would have been ungrammatical, because according to the Arabic language when you address someone by the vocative form ya followed by a title, the al ('the') must be dropped from the title. For example, you cannot say ya ar-rabb but must say ya rabb (for 'O Lord'). So if the word Allah was al-ilah ('the God'), we would not be able to say: ya Allah, which we do.


Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon (which is based on classical Arabic dictionaries), says under the word Allah, while citing many linguistical authorities:

"Allah ... is a proper name applied to the Being Who exists necessarily, by Himself, comprising all the attributes of perfection, a proper name denoting the true god ... the al being inseparable from it, not derived..."


Allah is thus a proper name, not derived from anything, and the Al is inseparable from it. The word al-ilah (the god) is a different word.


The word Allah is unique among the names of God in all the languages of mankind, in that it was never applied to any being other than God. The pre-Islamic Arabs used it to refer to the Supreme Being, and never applied it to any of the other things they worshipped. Other names of God used by mankind, such as "lord", "god", "khuda", etc. have all also been used for beings other than God. They have meanings which refer to some particular attribute of God, but "Allah" is the name which refers to the Being Himself as His personal name.

The Holy Quran itself refers to the uniqueness of the name Allah when it says:


"Do you know anyone who can be named along with Him?" (19:65)



Arabic is the only language, and Islam is the only religion, that has given the personal name of God (as distinct from attributive names such as lord, god, the most high, etc.) There are clear prophecies in previous scriptures (the Bible, the Vedas etc.) about the man who will come and give the name of God, which in previous religions was regarded as a secret.

David prophesied:

"Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" (Psalms 118:26).


This is also repeated in the Gospels (Matt. 21:9, etc.), and was fulfilled by the Holy Prophet Muhammad whose first revelation was "Read in the name of thy Lord" (the Quran, 96:1).

Zechariah prophesied:


"And the Lord shall be king over all the earth, in that day there shall be one Lord, and his name one." (Zech. 14:9)


All Muslims, anywhere on the earth, speaking totally different languages, recognise the name "Allah", thus fulfilling this prophecy, "his name one". (All Christians, to take an example, do not recognise a single name of God, and therefore do not fulfil this prophecy.)

Isaiah prophesied:

"And in that day shall you say, Praise the Lord, call upon His name." (Isaiah 12:4)

So Muslims say repeatedly exactly this: al-hamdu li-llah, and call upon His name Allah.

Allah Is Exalted


One of the 99 Names of Allah is The Exalter AL-MUTA'ÂLÎ i:e The Most Exalted (Q13:9)







The absence thereof in the Quran (that claims Bible prophets who never used the name Allah) establishes that Yahweh is not the Allah of the Quran.
Now you stooped so low just because you wanted to evade the whole intelligently constructed debate we had. You never had any problems with "Allah" until you reached roadblock. As I already quoted earlier, we can call Allah any names we want as long as it means The Creator without any mix-ups.

If Yahweh means God, The Only Creator of heavens and earth without partners, then, that is the same Supreme Being Muslims refer to.

Besides, the red highlighted was NEVER allowed in the OT!
This is the red highlighted part


("Invoke Allah or invoke Ar-Rahman (the Most Gracious), by whatever name you invoke Him (it is the same), for to Him belong the Best Names.) ~ Holy Qur'an

What language do you speak, please?. In your language, what do you call God, The Only Creator of heaven and earth?. What the highlighted part means is in any language you call God, The Only Unique Creator of All things, it is accepted.

Yoruba: Olohun, Eledumare, Eledua

Igbo: Chi

Hausa: Allah, Bautãwa, Ubangiji

Danish: Gud. And the list goes on.

Now if any of these names (except Allah of course), locally, dialectically mean gods of thunder, gods of iron etc, then, thats is contaminated. But if it means The Supreme Being,The Only Creator (Allah), then there is nothing wrong addressing Allah by those Names. Even the word 'God' is contaminated. Say for instance we spell back "God".... it will give us Dog. Thats why Jews spell G-d like this. So the word God is not even pure. But if you spell back Allah - it will still give you Halla. See that?. That's pure and Unique. And you said there is no unique and exalted for Allah in the Quran?, Allah is Most Exalted. This ayah sums it:



Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. 2:255

You are very wrong there! I had initially started typing a reply before I decided to just round up. Jesus was, is and shall ever be the Only Begotten of the Father. (As agrees the OT and NT)
What is definition of Begotten in Christianity?. This is 4th time I am asking this. Was Yahweh born of woman?

Sch8200:
If I point to prophecies and sayings of OT people and you can say nothing to counter it factually but still hold to your beliefs, then it further proves to me that Yahweh is not Allah, Jesus Christ is not Isa, David is not (whatever he is called in arabic), Isaiah etc; hence there is no point proceeding with the discussion !
Emp:
This is cheap exist. Since debated started, you have been unable to define God Almighty and His Unique Attributes. You rather mixed Him up with holy spirit and Jesus. You have also unable to properly Id'd Jesus the son of Mary, the messanger of Allah {Allah's Blessings and Peace be upon him}.

Sch8200:
For example

Psalm 110 :1 speaks of The Lord saying to the Lord, sit .. at My right hand...

Matthew 22:42-44 Jesus confirms that place as the Father speaking concerning the Messiah-Him!

The passage there in Hebrew and Greek clearly establishes that neither of the Two[/b] were created; John reinforces this and further clarifies that the Messiah is actually the latter in Psalm 110:1 made flesh for the purpose of Redemption, but had been with the Father from the begnning,
Emp:
Allow me to break this down the best way i can. I dont have problem with (Psalm 110 :1) the first speaker Lord with capital letter L. And the same Lord (God) is saying to another "Lord, lord" (because other version(s) uses both upper and lower cases) saying to sit at His (God) right hand, correct?. And you quoted Mat: 22 42-44 that Jesus (perhaps, the second Lord/lord) with upper and lower cases as messiah. What is definition of messiah?

At underlined, you have a big problem. The first implication is, you admitted there are two(B/beings) existed, correct?. This negates your tawheed i:e your claim that God is One. This is clear cut Shirk (blasphemy). Clearly God is not One by you explanation.

Second implication is, you said the Two(2) were not created. You have another serious problem. Remember you said the latter (Lord/lord) refer to Jesus sitting at God's right hand, if that is the case, then you contradict the birth of Jesus (Allah's Blessing and peace be upon him).


Here is the question again, when Jesus was born of woman, it means he was created. Yes or No?. We read in your Bible he was born, and how he grew up stage by stage, including being circumcised etc. So you and your Bible contradicted. Not only that. You contradict yourself, Bible contradicts itself and you and Bible contradict each other. I hope you understand my breakdown?

Sch8200
the Messiah is actually the latter in Psalm 110:1 made flesh for the purpose of Redemption, but had been with the Father from the begnning,
Emp:
Unfortunately, this is no different from average human beings like you and I. We were with God before our mothers conceived us. Or where do you think we were?. The difference is Jesus was sanctified and made prophet, without father. He was just like other prophet. Where do you think you were befpre you became flesh (before your mom gave birth to you)?. Weren't you with God?. That is what the verse is saying. If you disagree, then, you will NEVER be able to figure it out....NEVER!

Sch8200:
As if this was not enough, Malvis quoted Micah 5:2

“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Too little to be among the clans of Judah;
From you One shall come forth for Me [who is] to be Ruler in Israel,
[b]His goings forth (appearances) are from long ago,
From [a]ancient days.”


And Jesus confirmed the highlighted when He said ,''before Abraham was, I Am''.

If with all these you hold on to your views, then I submit that the GOD we know Whose Name as revealed is Yahweh (this is not translated as God dont get it mixed up), is not your Allah.


Emp:
I didnt even have this {Micah 5:2} book in any of my Bibles. I am hearing this for the first time. Kind of discrepancies we talked about Bible. Got it?. I will review it online to see what it is saying. Thanks for quoting this.

malvisguy212:
you see the point, if emp.iree know what he is talking about, he will surly address the bible passage I quote, but he know not what he was doing.. If empir.ee really know what he is talking about, he would've address this verses, but he ignore it. Even my first post, I provide another verse, he ignore all. That is why I advice scholar to ignore him.

Empiree:
Simple question i asked you. Is Jesus God?. It is Yes/No answer.


If a muslim is asked that question, his/her answer will be No.



But when i asked you, you came up with bunch of confused Bible passages "he was a word, the word became flesh, the flesh redeemed itself, the flesh became man, the man is spirit, the spirit walk in man, the spirit goes back to father, the Father is God, He is also Son, and Begotten Son, and Only qualified Begotten Son, and He is God." What the heck do i need all that for?. It is Yes or no answer.

malvisguy212:
I know you are wiser than your prophet, muhammed say allah pray, and you say no. The tail is wiser than the head.

Empiree:
Simple question i asked you. Is Jesus God?. It is Yes/No answer.


If a muslim is asked that question, his/her answer will be No.



But when i asked you, you came up with bunch of confused Bible passages "he was a word, the word became flesh, the flesh redeemed itself, the flesh became man, the man is spirit, the spirit walk in man, the spirit goes back to father, the Father is God, He is also Son, and Begotten Son, and Only qualified Begotten Son, and He is God." What the heck do i need all that for?. It is Yes or no answer.

malvisguy212:
jesus is the eternal God, from ancient of days, whose ORIGIN is NOT from this world. That's the biblical meaning of ancient of days.

Let me explain something to you, if your canal mind can comprehend this:

The phrase ancient of days were use to describe only TWO people, God the father and God the son, in micah 5:2 it was use to describe the messiah, but in daniel
chapter 7. In verse 13 we read, "I saw in the
night visions, and behold, with the clouds of
heaven there came one like a SON OF MAN, and HE came to the ANCIENT OF DAYS and was
presented before him."

Here the Ancient of
Days is God the Father and the son of man is a
Messianic reference to Jesus. The ancient of days is a clear reference to a Deity because His origin is unknown, this is what the psalmist wrote about this tile:

Psalm 90:2
2 BEFORE the mountains were brought forth,
or ever you had formed the earth and the
world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.

Now compare psalm 90:2 with isaiah 9:6 which say jesus is the EVERLASTING father. The father here imply , the father of ALL creation, because everything come through Him (His command) .

All this is strange to muhammed, muhammed dos not understand the nature of God. the quran use plurality to address the nature of God but NO attempt were made to explain it, some muslims scholar say the we is referring to allah and his angels.

Surah 21:91
And she who guarded her virginity, so WE BREATHED into her of OUR SPIRIT (roohina)
and appointed her and her son to be a sign
unto all beings.

How many people breath on mary ? Allah and his angels ? our spirit ? So angels can share Glory with God ? All this, muhammed could not explain it.

Scholar8200:

But there were that used the name Allah before Mohammed was born? Meaning Mohammed did not bring it! What then?

Rather fulfilled in Jesus:
I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 5:43-47




Bonus: Where did Moses write about Jesus?


Is that so? This is a verse you do not understand. It describes some Eschatological events which culminates in Jesus Christ reigning from Jerusalem.
And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zech 14:8

Let's see who Isaiah was referring to:

2 Behold, God is my salvation;
I will trust, and not be afraid:
for the Lord JEHOVAH is my strength and my song;
he also is become my salvation.
4 And in that day shall ye say,
Praise the Lord, call upon his name,
declare his doings among the people,
make mention that his name is exalted.
5 Sing unto the Lord;
for he hath done excellent things:
this is known in all the earth.
6 Cry out and shout, thou inhabitant of Zion:
for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee.
Isaiah 12:2-6

Does not sound like Muslims to me!

stoop so low? evading discussion? Like I said, we were each on parallel lines of discussion. I had started the usual step by step reply before I just ended it there. I can still dissect the last one but what's the point?

Yahweh is the Name of God. It is not the Hebrew translation of the word God. We have many presidents and they all have their personal names!

Well, there is a difference between translation of the word God to other languages, and the Name He revealed.

If you listen to the news, president may be translated into the local language but not the name. For example What's the yoruba, igbo, efik etc rendition for Buhari = Buhari!

Begotten as it refers to GOD is not defined, suffice it to say that the word was used . It was wrong to relate it only to biology and thus dispense it as false.

No problem. After all the quotes from the prophets and Jesus Himself, I should expect you to say this since you either skimmed through my replies or ignored some parts.

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 16:16,17

But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God Matthew 26:63

Emp:
Allow me to break this down the best way i can. I dont have problem with (Psalm 110 :1) the first speaker Lord with capital letter L. And the same Lord (God) is saying to another "Lord, lord" (because other version(s) uses both upper and lower cases) saying to sit at His (God) right hand, correct?. And you quoted Mat: 22 42-44 that Jesus (perhaps, the second Lord/lord) with upper and lower cases as messiah. What is definition of messiah?

The Messiah- The Anointed One - is none other than the Son of God Who has been from the beginning with the Father!

A mystery remains a mystery!

That is why I said we are on parallel lines, Jesus has been from the beginning, He merely took on humanity at that point!

Interesting claim that! On what authority do you make your claim? Apart from Jesus, who was so described? And can you therefore pray thus:

Emp:
Unfortunately, this is no different from average human beings like you and I. [We were with God before our mothers conceived us. Or where do you think we were?. The difference is Jesus was sanctified and made prophet, without father. He was just like other prophet. Where do you think you were befpre you became flesh (before your mom gave birth to you)?. Weren't you with God?. That is what the verse is saying. If you disagree, then, you will NEVER be able to figure it out....NEVER!

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John17:5
Watch your tonguefingers here!

There is the problem, you never saw that in the Bible and then it is a discrepancy? !!!! This is why this discussion appears to be lost! If Micah is not in any of your Bible I wonder!

BETATRON:
lol...first on the WE used in the koran, please kindly get your dictionary and check for we..there is what is called the ROYAL WE used to address a single person or a person importance. So when the koran addressed Allah with the royal We it is not in the sense of plenty but in the sense of royalty...


Second you claimed the word ancient of days was used to describe TWO PEOPLE(different personal),,make it glaring that there existed to Gods,the superior and the inferior..now kindly explain how this conforms with monotheism and please where is the place of God the holy spirit,,isn't he ancient of days also

Empiree:

Scholar8200:

But there were that used the name Allah before Mohammed was born? Meaning Mohammed did not bring it! What then?
Emp:
Of-course, he didnt. Allah(God) has ALWAYS been in existence BEFORE the CREATION of ANYTHING. What Name did Jesus call God in his Aramaic language?. See the attachment. Any objection to that?

Sch8200:
Rather fulfilled in Jesus:
I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 5:43-47




Bonus: Where did Moses write about Jesus?


Is that so? This is a verse you do not understand. It describes some Eschatological events which culminates in Jesus Christ reigning from Jerusalem.
And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zech 14:8
Emp:
Really irrelevant to me to begin with.

Sch8200:
Let's see who Isaiah was referring to:

2 Behold, God is my salvation;
I will trust, and not be afraid:
for the Lord JEHOVAH is my strength and my song;
he also is become my salvation.
4 And in that day shall ye say,
Praise the Lord, call upon his name,
declare his doings among the people,
make mention that his name is exalted.
5 Sing unto the Lord;
for he hath done excellent things:
this is known in all the earth.
6 Cry out and shout, thou inhabitant of Zion:
for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee.
Isaiah 12:2-6

Does not sound like Muslims to me!
Emp:
But you said Yahweh is God's name according to you?. And your brother accused me of Jehovah's witnesses doctrine. Do you then call God Jehovah?.....that's what they call God. Ofcourse, it wont sound muslims to you even though you appeared to be a little insightful.

Sch8200:
stoop so low? evading discussion? Like I said, we were each on parallel lines of discussion. I had started the usual step by step reply before I just ended it there. I can still dissect the last one but what's the point?
Emp:
The point is, you have no point so long as you mix God with his creatures, and then keep telling us all 3 in 1 is One God. Atheist wont even agree wit you.

Sch8200:
Yahweh is the Name of God. It is not the Hebrew translation of the word God. We have many presidents and they all have their personal names!
Emp:
You confused?. But earlier you said Yahweh is not God. Hope you save your many inconsistencies.

Sch8200:
Begotten as it refers to GOD is not defined, suffice it to say that the word was used . It was wrong to relate it only to biology and thus dispense it as false.
Emp:
In another word, yourself dont know what "Begotten" means yet you use it, you apply it, you believe it. This is called blind faith. The implications are many.

One of them is Jesus did not say that. At some point he was called "Son of God" but he rebuffed them saying "you said I am" meaning, that's their opinion. He never acknowledged it.

Another implication is John that wrote the book was written after Jesus ascension. It has pretty much no validity. Therefore Quran warns in many passages I quoted earlier.

One of them:


"He (God) begot not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like Him" ! Holy Quran

So I urge you to refrain from what you knew not. Here read what Quran says about that as well. He says you have no knowledge of it. Thats very much confirms what you said


Surah 18:

4 Further, that He may warn those (also) who say, "Allah hath begotten a son":

5 No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. It is a grievous thing that issues from their mouths as a saying what they say is nothing but falsehood!

Sch8200:
No problem. After all the quotes from the prophets and Jesus Himself, I should expect you to say this since you either skimmed through my replies or ignored some parts.
Emp:
Very simple. I did some breakdown of those verses and you ignored them unfortunately. If they had been critically important, i would have, perhaps, considered them. But you got them mixed up back and fourth. A layman would get confused too. That's why, 80% of those who adhere to Christianity have no idea what they are doing. They have little to no knowledge of their real doctrines.

Sch8200:
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 16:16,17

But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God Matthew 26:63
Emp:
Now you jumped to Simmon Peter, hum?. is there any correlation with what said ealier (quoted below)?. I wonder if you really listen to yourself sometimes. (no offence, sir). Your Bible is very CONFUSING -> C O N F U S E = confuse

Emp:
Allow me to break this down the best way i can. I dont have problem with (Psalm 110 :1) the first speaker Lord with capital letter L. And the same Lord (God) is saying to another "Lord, lord" (because other version(s) uses both upper and lower cases) saying to sit at His (God) right hand, correct?. And you quoted Mat: 22 42-44 that Jesus (perhaps, the second Lord/lord) with upper and lower cases as messiah. What is definition of messiah?


Sch8200
The Messiah- The Anointed One - is none other than the Son of God Who has been from the beginning with the Father!
Emp:
Okay. So here messiah is someone appointed by God. Okay, two separete bings. Anyways, here is official definition of messiah.

mes·si·ah
məˈsīə/Submit
noun

1. the promised deliverer of the Jewish nation prophesied in the Hebrew Bible.

2. a leader or savior of a particular group or cause.


See that?. He was sent to Jewish people not Nigerians
https://www.google.com/search?q=Messiah&rlz=1CASMAE_enUS679US679&oq=Messiah&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

A mystery remains a mystery!
Emp:
grin Difficult to solve. You put yourself through what God did not approve of. It is not too late. My responses should be formatting your system gradually and remove your clog.

That is why I said we are on parallel lines, Jesus has been from the beginning, He merely took on humanity at that point!
Emp:
Fabricated theory, sorry.

Sch8200
Interesting claim that! On what authority do you make your claim? Apart from Jesus, who was so described? And can you therefore pray thus:
Emp:
grin grin grin grin You cant beat that, can you?. Underlined is me. That is the intellect Quran gives us. I have every right to apply it. Let me repost my analysis here again for readers:

Emp:
Unfortunately, this is no different from average human beings like you and I. [We were with God before our mothers conceived us. Or where do you think we were?. The difference is Jesus was sanctified and made prophet, without father. He was just like other prophet. Where do you think you were befpre you became flesh (before your mom gave birth to you)?. Weren't you with God?. That is what the verse is saying. If you disagree, then, you will NEVER be able to figure it out....NEVER!

Now, Quran also said something simliar that we were created before. Meaning pre-existence (before we became flesh), mimicking you grin


Sura Yasin v 79

Say: (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) "He will give life to them Who created them for the first time! And He is the All-Knower of every creation!"




Sura 19:67

"Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?"



So these verses indicate we (all humans) pre-existed before we became flesh.

Let me make something very clear. I do not want you to assume that we are trying to relegate Jesus the son of Mary, the messanger of Allah. May God protect me from that. What I am trying to establish here is the correct status of Jesus(Allah's Blessings and Peace be upon him). Quran describes him as NO more than messanger of God. Period. That doesnt mean he was in the same level like us. No. He is human being 100%. We only reject the idea being called God or son of God. Clear?. At your bolded part, Quran says Allah honor children of Adam(as).



Allah has made a declaration in the Quran:


"And indeed We have honoured the Children of Adam, and We have carried them on land and sea, and have provided them with At-Taiyibat (lawful good things), and have preferred them above many of those whom We have created with a marked preference.

(Al-Isra 17:70)

Jesus is also one of the many children of Adam. Anything else?

Sch8200:
There is the problem, you never saw that in the Bible and then it is a discrepancy? !!!! undecided This is why this discussion appears to be lost! If Micah is not in any of your Bible I wonder!
Emp:
By discrepancy i meant why is it not in my Bibles?. Bible should be one like Quran, hence discrepancy. It is missing. That's my point. Why is it not there?

Underlined, you wonder?. That's a question for your priests and pope

malvisguy212:
alright, explain this:
Surah 17:1
Glory be to HIM Who made HIS servant to
go on a night from the Sacred Mosque to the
remote mosque of which WE have blessed
the precincts, so that WE may show to HIM
some of Our signs; surely HE is the Hearing,
the Seeing.

The last text is even more confusing. If you take
that sentence seriously, then there are at least
four persons involved here. Person A to whom
glory is given, person B is the servant of person
A, and persons C and D (or more) who are the
subject and the speakers of this whole
sentence. Actually, who is "him"? … so that WE
show to HIM some of … surely HE is the …
seeing. Doesn’t the structure suggest that the
HIM and the HE should be the same?

The Hebrew word for GOD ("Elohim" is plural
in form:
Deuteronomy 6:4 says: "Hear, O Israel: The
LORD [singular] our God [ELOHIM-plural] is ONE Lord."

The Hebrew word "ONE" found in this verse was use to describe a UNITY made up of
more than one component. Example of this same word (one) use in the bible was in Genesis 11:5:

Genesis 11:5 "Behold, the PEOPLE IS ONE."

The people (plural) at Babel were united together as ONE. It was a UNITY, but it was made up of many people (a plural unity). I don't want to say much, I promise to open a thread about trinity.

BETATRON:
first..you confirmed that the elohim is plural in form...and deuteronomy saith the lord our God is one God..

The question is, when elohim(plural) is used does it mean christ(god the son as you call him) and God the father---if so,, deuteronomy could be explained "correctly" to mean both jesus and God are one...

Now moving to john17:3---JESUS said...and this is life eternal that they know YOU(God the father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and jesus christ(another personal) whom you(God the father) SENT

Looking and john17:3 one is compelled to ask,,if christ and God the father are/is one how come christ himself addressed God the father as THE ONLY TRUE and and referred to himself as SENT By God the father

Is there a hierarchy ? In that God the father has more authority than God the son and God the father now become the superior God and god the son the inferior

This is clearly shown when christ summoned God the father saying "IF IT bE THY Will let this cup pass over me" ---here god the son falls under the will and authority of God the father and has no authority of his own

Is God the son the inferior god and God the father the superior God or is the muslim man correct when he referred to christ as a prophet and a messenger("sent"-john17:3) of God

---second---as for the koranic verse you posted there is no standard literature which tags this form of expression as incorrect, it is infact very correct

malvisguy212:
there is difference between God the son and christ, christ is a man, it was God the son who incarnate in jesus christ. But how can Jesus’ statement about His Father being “the only true God” be harmonized with statements made by thomas,peter concerning the deity of Christ ? It was in the very same gospel of john that the deity of christ is well proven. Jesus statement was made in the opposition of the world's false God. Isaiah 43:11 God say "beside me their is NO savior" YET peter, one of jesus disciple and paul say jesus is the savior

Who is the speaker of the quranic verse I paste ? Who is the "HIM" and the "HE" ? If the 'him' or 'he' is Allah , why will allah switch from plurality to singularity ?

malvisguy212:
there is difference between God the son and christ, christ is a man, it was God the son who incarnate in jesus christ. But how can Jesus’ statement about His Father being “the only true God” be harmonized with statements made by thomas,peter concerning the deity of Christ ? It was in the very same gospel of john that the deity of christ is well proven. Jesus statement was made in the opposition of the world's false God. Isaiah 43:11 God say "beside me their is NO savior" YET peter, one of jesus disciple and paul say jesus is the savior

Who is the speaker of the quranic verse I paste ? Who is the "HIM" and the "HE" ? If the 'him' or 'he' is Allah , why will allah switch from plurality to singularity ?

BETATRON:
how has being a savior made him a deity worthy of worship--is savior another word for God?

Are you trying to say it was christ who was speaking in john17:3 and not God the son. So God the son is a different being and christ is another being..and both of them do make their statements in the bible..never knew..

Wow how concocted and confusing

The his,the him and the We(singular we of royalty) all refer to the same being God

Scholar8200:

The Royal 'Us' and 'We' is not used Once in the Bible but since the Quran uses it, it further establishes the fact that we are not referring to the same God.

Muslims believe when Allah says Us /We He it is done in self-reference; Christians believe when God says Us (He Never used We, rather He uses I!), it points to His Triune Nature. Meaning we are just not referring to the same Personality!

Isaiah, Daniel, Zechariah , David all prophesied of the Messiah, referred to His Pre-existence with the Father and prophesied of His death and resurrection. Since they do not believe in same, then we can logically say that we are not referring to the same God.

malvisguy212:
God say, their is NO savior , ONLY him, yet the bible say Jesus is the savior, what does it imply ? God the son did not override the person of christ, they are both distinct. Have you ever witness a possess man being healed ? Prior to his deliverance, he will speak some unthinkable word. Is he the one speaking or the demon who possess him speaking ?

Jesus is fully God and Fully man, the fact that he was born at a specific period of time prove he was a man. And the fact that He was from old, whose origin is not from this world, prove he is God. As long as jesus is a man, surly he pray, eat, walk and fast, He does so because that was the duty of man. The context of john 17 is "jesus pray for the believers" and when He call the father, the only true God, He does so because it was the duty of All men to call God the only true God.

BETATRON:
so for instance God is wise and I am called wise then I am god too..the problem is you guys take the book too literary and then ask another person to pray for guidance before reading the bible

He is fully God and fully man....how nice..like having infinite knowledge and at the same time having limited knowledge,like being limited by time and space and at the same time being unlimited,

How is it possible that a deity is worshiped as a god by people and this deity on the other hand worships another deity as a man....still concocted bro

malvisguy212:
the funniest part is that this muslims will keep on insisting, we worship the same God.

Empiree:
no, we do not worship same God, understand?.

malvisguy212:
alright.

Empiree:
fooling yourself for extracting that piece out of context.

Evidences abound against you, buddy.

malvisguy212:
wow, what's the definition of hypocrite ?is this not what you've been doing ?

Rilwayne001:


mtsheeew

Demola, see your friend

Egbon God forbid, ineffectual buffoon that's what he is!

Demmzy15:
Egbon God forbid, ineffectual buffoon that's what he is!