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| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 5:29am On Mar 01, 2015 |
So, Who Wrote Mark and What Were His Sources? Not even the Bible claims that Mark was an eye witness to Jesus’ ministry. Modern, non Christian biblical scholars believe that the gospel of Mark was written in Syria by an unknown Christian no earlier than AD 70, using various sources including a passion narrative (probably written), collections of miracles stories (oral or written), apocalyptic traditions (probably written), and disputations and didactic sayings (some possibly written). These stories were in circulation year after year, told in different languages and in different countries from that of Jesus. That’s it. The source for the gospel of Mark is other peoples’ stories and writings. In other words, all of Mark’s sources were at best, second hand, more likely fifth or sixth hand. What happens to stories that circulate orally for years? Obviously, they come to be changed in the retelling. Thus, the source for much of the synoptic gospels is no more than hearsay. Apologists dismiss the charge of “hearsay” by pointing to the strength of the “oral tradition”. The simple childhood game of “Telephone” is sufficient to illustrate the point that stories told mouth to mouth for 35 years or more can’t possibly retain their original content. The Gospel of Mark is the first of the Gospels to proffer quotes allegedly from Jesus. We question how authentic these quotes could possibly be, given the convoluted path from Jesus’ lips to “Marks” wax tablets and the years that passed since the words were allegedly spoken. We have written a treatise on the impossibilities of Jesus’ actual words being accurately recorded 40+ years after they were spoken. Who Wrote Matthew and What Were The Sources? By the end of the 2nd century the tradition of Matthew the tax-collector had become widely accepted, and the line “The Gospel According to Matthew” began to be added to manuscripts. For many reasons scholars today believe otherwise—fifty five percent of the gospel is copied from Mark, and it seems unlikely that an eyewitness of Jesus’ ministry would need to rely on others for information about it. They believe instead that it was written between about 80–90 AD by a highly educated Jew, intimately familiar with the technical aspects of Jewish law, standing on the boundary between traditional and non-traditional Jewish values. A widespread theory holds that the author drew on three primary sources, each representing a distinct community: a hypothetical collection, or several collections, of sayings (called “Q“, and shared with Luke); the Gospel of Mark; and material unique to Matthew (called “M”, some of which may have originated with Matthew himself). He wrote for a Jewish audience: like “Q” and “M”, he stresses the continuing relevance of the Jewish law; unlike Mark he never bothers to explain Jewish customs; and unlike Luke, who traces Jesus’s ancestry back to Adam, father of the human race, he traces it only to Abraham, father of the Jews. The fact that his linage differs significantly from that of Luke is a real problem for those who claim that the Holy Spirit’s hand guided the writers of the gospels. The content of “M” suggests that the community for which this gospel was written, was stricter than the others in its attitude to keeping the Jewish law, holding that they must exceed the scribes and the Pharisees in “righteousness” (adherence to Jewish law); and of the three only “M” refers to a “church” (ecclesia), an organised group with rules for keeping order. Biblical scholars generally hold that Matthew was composed between the years c. 70 and 100. Who Wrote Luke and What Were the Sources? Most modern critical scholarship concludes that Luke used the Gospel of Mark for his chronology and a hypothetical sayings source Q document for many of Jesus’ teachings. Luke may also have drawn from independent written records. Traditional Christian scholarship has dated the composition of the gospel to the early 60s, while higher criticism dates it to the later decades of the 1st century. While the traditional view that Paul’s companion Luke authored the gospel is still often put forward, a number of possible contradictions between Acts and Paul’s letters lead many scholars to dispute this account. Who Wrote John and What Were the Sources? John differs significantly from the synoptic gospels in theme, content, time duration, order of events, and style. Only ca. 8% of it is parallel to these other gospels, and even then, no such word-for-word parallelism occurs as we find among the synoptic gospels. The Gospel of John reflects a Christian tradition that is different from that of the other gospels. It was rejected as heretical by many individuals and groups within the early Christian movement. It was used extensively by the Gnostic Christians. But it was ultimately accepted into the official canon, over many objections. It is now the favorite gospel of many conservative Christians, and the gospel least referred to by many liberal Christians. They have a totally different agenda in mind for their audience than did the authors of the synoptic gospels. The authors of the synoptic gospels were writing to their fellow Jews and trying to convince them that they could accept Jesus as the Messiah and still remain Jewish. Matthew even indicates that the men should still be circumcised . John’s teachings , as summed up in John 3:16 are just the opposite of those of the writers of Mark, Matthew and Luke. Whereas John welcomes anyone into the fold, Mark, Matthew and Luke write for and to Jews only. They see Jesus as the Jewish Messiah who has come to return Israel to its former glory. The gospel identifies its author as “the disciple whom Jesus loved.” The text does not actually name this disciple, but by the beginning of the 2nd century a tradition began to form which identified him with John the Apostle, one of the Twelve (Jesus’s innermost circle). Today the majority of scholars do not believe that John or any other eyewitness wrote it and trace it instead to a “Johannine community” which traced its traditions to John; the gospel itself shows signs of having been composed in three “layers”, reaching its final form about 90-100 AD. Bottom Line The canonical gospels upon which the Christian faith is built, the ones which present the words of Jesus are writings by unknown authors writing to buttress the particular points they wished to make. The quotations allegedly from Jesus were most likely, made up by the authors to support their positions. The titles in our English Bibles are later additions; they are not original to the Gospels themselves. The Gospel narratives are always written in the third person. The tradition that they were written by two disciples (Matthew and John) and by two companions of the apostles (Mark and Luke) is first attested in the 2nd century! What we can say for certain about the authors is that they were all highly educated, literate, Greek-speaking Christians of (at least) the second generation, contrast this with the apostles of Jesus, who were uneducated, lower class, illiterate, Aramaic-speaking peasants. Even IF the gospels had been written by the “eye-witness” apostles, Matthew and John, it is unlikely that they reported everything accurately. Remember that their “testimony” comes thirty years (Matthew) and sixty years (John) after the fact. This would-be “eyewitness” testimony is, at a minimum, 30 years after the events it purports to describe and the authors were in or nearing their dotage. In any event, recent research has found that eyewitness testimony is not reliable. Read an excerpt from an article entitled “34 Years Later, Supreme Court Will Revisit Eyewitness IDs” By Adam Liptak Published: August 22, 2011, NY Times. 1 Like 2 Shares |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 5:33am On Mar 01, 2015 |
Discrepancies And The Holy Spirit Irrespective of the above, Christians argue that the authors of the Gospels and in fact the authors of all the books of the Bible, were guided by the Holy Spirit and therefore cannot be in error regardless of who wrote the words. We would like to throw out just a few of the discrepancies that one finds between the same story told by the different authors. For example, the accounts of Jesus’ birth in Matthew and Luke are strikingly different from each other. In addition to major discrepancies in Luke’s and Matthew’s versions of the birth of Jesus, and his family’s relocation from Bethlehem to Nazareth, there are historical problems. These include the nature of the miraculous star in Matthew that leads the wise men to the exact location of Jesus’ birth, and the census in Luke that required knowing where one’s ancestors were from. Moreover, this census involved the entire Roman Empire, and there is no account of such a huge census anywhere except in Luke. The genealogy of Jesus given to us by Matthew is much different that the genealogy given by Luke. John has Jesus teaching for three years; Mark, Matthew and Luke present a one year ministry. Mark and Luke follow this with an account of teaching and healing in Galilee, then a trip to Jerusalem where there is an incident in the Temple climaxing with the crucifixion on the day of the Passover holiday. John, by contrast, puts the Temple incident very early in Jesus’ ministry, has several trips to Jerusalem, and puts the crucifixion immediately before the Passover holiday, on the day when the lambs for the Passover meal were being sacrificed in Temple. And the accounts of Jesus’ death in Mark and Luke are strikingly different. Additional Proof Can be Found Here A 606 page treatise entitled The Rejection of Pascal’s Wager http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/paulorigin.htmlcompletely presents the evidence for the fact that the Books of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John were not written by who Christians think they were. The book presents massive evidence from real biblical scholars (those who did not attend Moody Bible College or Dallas Theological Seminary, et. al.) that the authorship of the Gospels is unknown. 1 Like |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 5:51am On Mar 01, 2015 |
The writings in the New Testament which are closest in time to the death of Jesus are the letters of Paul. Only seven of these are considered genuinely by Paul himself: First Thessalonians (c. 51 AD) Philippians (c. 52-54 AD) Philemon (c. 52-54 AD) First Corinthians (c. 53-54 AD) Galatians (c. 55 AD) Second Corinthians (c. 55-56 AD) Romans (c. 55-58 AD) The earliest of the gospels seems to have been Mark, written sometime after and probably close to 70 AD. It was then used as one of the sources for the next gospels, Matthew and Luke, which were written independently using Mark and at least one other shared source (now lost) that scholars refer to as "Q". Both Matthew and Luke seem to have been written in the 80s AD. The latest of the gospels is John, which seems to have been written no earlier than 90 AD judging from internal evidence, though it could have been as late as 120 AD. Acts seems to have been written by the same writer who wrote the gospel of Luke and, again, it seems to have been written in the 80s AD. The rest of the New Testament dates to the very end of the First Century at the earliest or, more likely, the first decades of the Second Century. Conservative fundamentalists dispute all these dates and try to argue for much earlier ones, but I've summarized the consensus of critical scholarship on the question. "What do we know about the authors?" In all cases, very little. We know most about Paul since he gives us a few details of his life in his seven genuine letters. He seems to have been a Jew of the tribe of Benjamin who was born in Tarsus in what is now Turkey and who studied with the famed Pharisee Gamaliel in Jerusalem before converting to the Jesus sect as a result of some kind of visionary experience. The writer of Mark seems to have been a non-Jew and he gets some of the geography of Palestine wrong, indicating that he is getting his information second hand. He is clearly writing for a non-Jewish audience as well, since he regularly explains Jewish ideas and customs. Christian tradition says he was a follower of Peter in Rome and got his information from Peter himself. There is evidence that this may be at least partially true, since this gospel contains evidence that at least some of it was translated into Greek from an earlier Aramaic source or sources. Romans feature in several of this gospel's stories and are always depicted in the best possible light, so it is likely it was written in Rome for an audience of Roman converts. The writer of Matthew was not Matthew, the disciple of Jesus. He relied heavily on the gospel of Mark as his main source - 75% of Matthew is directly from Mark, usually verbatim - and it makes no sense that an eyewitness would rely so heavily on the work of someone who was not there. He also used the now lost document or documents we call "Q" and some unique material. He was likely a Jew and was heavily concerned with showing that Jesus was the fulfillment of Jewish scripture, sometimes going to absurd lengths to tell or invent stories that have Jesus "fulfill" various prophecies about the Messiah. Despite this he does not seem to have been literate in Hebrew, since he used the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament, to refer to these prophecies. The writer of Luke was the most literary of the gospel writers, though even his style was not exactly highly polished. Like the other gospel writers he would have been well-educated though not a top ranked scholar (who tended to be aristocrats, since others didn't have the time or resources for that level of study). Like all of the gpospel writers, he was certainly not a peasant and was probably not a Jew, which rules out any of Jesus' earliest followers as writers of these texts. He affects the style of a historian, though his works are, like the other gospels, devotional polemic rather than history. He also makes several historical errors. The writer of John was almost certainly not a Jew and actually casts "the Jews" as the villains of his story. Where the earlier gospels tend to differentiate between the various Jewish factions that questioned or opposed Jesus (the Pharisees, the scribes and elders, the Saducees), in the final gospel they simply become an amorphous mass called "the Jews". This gospel also claims Jesus and his followers were excluded from synagogues by "the Jews". This is contrary to all the other gospels and seems to be an anachronism. The Jesus sect was only excluded from synagogue worship much later, after 90 AD, and this gospel seems to have been written after then and reflect increasing distance and conflict between the Jesus sect and the rest of Judasim as the former increasingly became a separate, non-Jewish religion. 1 Like |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 6:15am On Mar 01, 2015 |
[size=15pt]How Did They Know What Jesus' teachings Were Or Did They Make Them Up (or write down what other people made up)?[/size] As noted above, we can discern earlier texts behind the gospels that we have today and we know they used earlier sources. Luke's gospel tells us as much: Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught. (Luke 1:1-4)  So here the writer notes that others have written account before him and that these were based on traditions handed down (orally and perhaps also in written form) from "eyewitnesses". He is proposing to write an "orderly" version of these accounts. He is making it clear that his account is at least at third hand, or even more removed from the events. And we can see that he uses Mark as his main source, since about 60% of Luke is directly from Mark. He also uses material that was used (unknown to him) by the writer of Matthew as well, the material we refer to as "Q". The Q material does seem to have been at least partially textual and was possibly more than one text. It was made up substantially (though not wholly) of sayings of Jesus. There is other material that is unique to Luke's gospel that scholars differentiate from the Mark material and the Q material by calling it "L". Whether this was another text or texts, oral traditions or invention by the writer of Luke is unclear. The gospel of Matthew gives is clear indications of a similar construction, using Mark, Q and some unique material ("M" ). Behind Mark is at least some written material in Aramaic, since the gospel's writer makes some mistakes that can only be explained by him misunderstanding an original Aramaic text. The gospel of John seems to be based on other texts now lost. They touch on some of the same stories as the other gospels (though not many) but tell them in ways so different that they seem to have been different texts. There are whole libraries of books written on these questions and a vast array of opinions, so I have tried to summarise the scholarship that is (i) agreed by most experts and (ii) not coloured by religious biases. The books of Bart Ehrman, Maurice Casey, Geza Vermes and Paula Fredriksen go into far more detail and would point you to the scholarship in question if you want to explore further. Beware books by conservative evangelicals and fundamentalist apologists though - they have an obvious religious agenda. The Quran says that the current Torah, Psalms and Gospel (the New Testament) have been badly corrupted. Numerous passages of the Quran refer to man’s distortion and alterations of the previous books of revelations from Allah. These passages in the Quran note that the received books by the People of the Book, The Jews and the Christians, do not conform to the original revelations that were given to Moses, David and Jesus. The following verses from the Quran are among the more direct in addressing this distortion of the prior books of Allah. Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing?....So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. (Quran 2:75,79) There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it! (Quran 3:78) And remember Allah took a covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made! (Quran 3:187) "But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind. From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done." (Quran 5:13-14) "No just estimate of Allah do they make when they say: "Nothing doth Allah send down to man (by way of revelation)" Say: "Who then sent down the Book which Moses brought?- a light and guidance to man: But ye make it into (separate) sheets for show, while ye conceal much (of its contents): therein were ye taught that which ye knew not- neither ye nor your fathers." Say: "Allah (sent it down)": Then leave them to plunge in vain discourse and trifling."(Quran 6:91) There are of course many other passages in the Quran which say the Bible has been corrupted. Where the Hadith say the Bible has been corrupted The Hadith (sayings and actions of Prophet Muhammad in Islam) as well point out to Biblical Corruption. Consider these hadith: Narrated Abu Huraira: The people of the Scripture (Jews) used to recite the Torah in Hebrew and they used to explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. On that Allah's Apostle said, "Do not believe the people of the Scripture or disbelieve them, but say:-- "We believe in Allah and what is revealed to us." (2.136) (Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 12) Narrated Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!" (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461) Next.... Scholars of the Bible say the Bible has been badly edited and corrupted over time... 1 Like |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by malvisguy212: 6:24am On Mar 01, 2015 |
Empiree:you don't know what you are saying,you just choose to be ignorance,All the written your Allah is busy written on a rock tree and even a baby born with quran, is it lie or true? You believe Allah send the quran to muhammed and he recite it,and he became written material, what make you think other book that was sent is not the word of God?and not a written material? I don't think I will reply you anymore, because you argue for argument sack. |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by malvisguy212: 6:31am On Mar 01, 2015 |
Empiree:wonders shall never end, so only muhammed,when giving a book is not figurative? The quran has block you sense of reasoning. |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by malvisguy212: 6:55am On Mar 01, 2015 |
Empiree. All what you wrote are rubbish, the bible is clear, the word of God is God breath God inspired this men to wrote the bible.And, "the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the Word of our God stands forever." We need to ask ourselves, "Is God able to protect his word? Is God able to fulfill these statements, that his word will never disappear, never go unfulfilled?" Is God capable? Yes, of course. This is God's word to all people. Are we accusing God himself by saying that He was not able to protect it from being changed? Nothing has been changed. That is only a rumor. The Quran does not say the Bible has been changed. Just the opposite. It honors the Torah and the Bible. It mentions the Torah, and the "Zabur" (the Old Testament and Psalms) and the "Injil" (the New Testament) many times. When Islam began in the 6th century, 600 years after Jesus Christ, the Bible was accepted as true. So, you might ask, has the Bible changed since the 6th century? No. All you have to do is compare today's Bible with a Bible written long ago. We can find complete Bibles, all the way back to 300 A.D., hundreds of years before the Quran. You can find one in the London Museum, in the Vatican, and many other places. If you compare today's Bible with the Bibles of 300 A.D., the Bible we have today is the same as then. Did you know that there exists today nearly 25,000 hand-written copies of portions of the New Testament? As historians have compared these manuscripts, they have concluded that the New Testament we have today is at least 99.5% accurate to the original. No change. (The .5% differences refer to spelling, but no change in meaning.) Also, you might be familiar with the more recent archeological findings of the Dead Sea Scrolls. These were found in caves of Qumran, just off the northwest corner of the Dead Sea. Researchers have compared the Bible we have today with what they found, and they remained highly similar, nearly 100% identical. Don't let anyone tell you that the New Testament or the Bible has been changed from its original writing. That simply is not historically accurate. The Bible has not been changed. Ok, but what about having four Gospels? Aren't those different Scriptures, different from each other? Yes, there are four gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, in the New Testament. These actually help show that the Bible has never been falsified. These are four witnesses, four accounts of Jesus' life, what he said, what he did. Imagine if one or two, or let's say four people, witnessed a car accident on a corner of a street. And each one was asked to write up their account, their witness of the accident for the court. Do you think that each one would give the exact same description, exactly the same witness, word-for-word? Obviously not. Each one would write from his or her own perspective of what he or she saw. And that's what happened when each of these witnesses wrote their account of Jesus, as eyewitnesses of Jesus. For centuries judicial systems have involved witnesses. And, on very important matters, it cannot be one person's word against another's. Often, you need more than one witness. Here's a statement in the New Testament, quoting from the Old Testament, "Every matter must be established by the witness of two or three people." Not only are there four witnesses about Jesus who wrote the gospels, but there are many more witnesses. James, Paul, Jude, Peter, and others wrote the rest of the books in the New Testament. John said, "[We write] what our eyes have seen, what our hands have touched." They were eyewitnesses to Jesus. 1 Like |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 6:59am On Mar 01, 2015 |
malvisguy212: malvisguy212You don't understand anything at all. Do you actually believe religious Books descended from the sky? Man, you need elementary studies all over. And you are the same fellow quoting hadith and Qur'an like you are the custodian?. Chai, funny dude ! Yes, don't reply me. You peeps trying to be smart. You guys can't stand my argument NEVER. Now that you have conceded defeat, stay off our religious text.1 Like |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by malvisguy212: 7:04am On Mar 01, 2015 |
Empiree:I ask you a simple question which you cannot answer, All thoes written on a three and baby born with quran, who is sending it? How is it written? Did muhammed recite it on the mother womb? Your argument is not making sense at all. |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 7:12am On Mar 01, 2015 |
malvisguy212:Listen, you don't get it. We talking about Revelation [size=5pt](revealed holy Books to messangers by God)[/size] here not any hocus-pocus. |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by malvisguy212: 7:47am On Mar 01, 2015 |
Empiree:don't quote me after this. If it not a written material,how will the people get the message? Quran Chapter 2, Verses 23 & 24: "And if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to our servant, Then produce a CHAPTER like thereunto; And call your witnesses or helpers besides Allah, If you are true. But if you cannot, and surely you cannot, Then fear the fire Whose fuel is men and stones, Which is prepared for those who reject." Here Allah is challenging men to produce word like the quran. |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by truthman2012(m): 7:54am On Mar 01, 2015 |
malvisguy212: Very good of you. How could someone define a Book as Revelations? Besides, Jesus didn't receive revelations, he was hearing directly from God and he was speaking with divine authority. |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by malvisguy212: 8:00am On Mar 01, 2015 |
truthman2012:the guy is displaying his ignorance,he is the first muslims that have ever said this to me. |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by truthman2012(m): 8:42am On Mar 01, 2015 |
Christians have no problem with the Bible. It is satan that is finding fault with it. Jesus on many occassions referred to the OT, which satan says is corrupt. Satan is in the business of finding fault with God's words as an adversary. He found fault with God's instructions to Adam and Eve to deceive them. Allah finding faults with the earlier Scriptures shows clearly who he is, an adversary. Jesus died and resurrected and promised he would be with us always and he is doing so. After he ascended to heaven, he spoke to John as recorded in the Book of Revelations. He told the then church what they needed to do and undo. Even today he is speaking to the true Christians. The Bible as we have it today is working miracles for us. If there are things wrong with it, Jesus would have told us because he is alive. Only Muhammad received revelations from allah, which are inconsistent with the earlier Scriptures. Prophets before Muhammad received revelations which are consistent because they were from the same God. Why was Muhammad's message different if he was from the God of other prophets? 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 1:07pm On Mar 01, 2015 |
^ What is this one saying? |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by truthman2012(m): 1:23pm On Mar 01, 2015 |
. |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by truthman2012(m): 1:23pm On Mar 01, 2015 |
Empiree: You as a carnal man cannot understand it because it is spiritually designed. You would have understood if it is talking about having sex with a baby girl as obtainable in islam. Smh! 2 Likes |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Rilwayne001: 3:34pm On Mar 01, 2015 |
malvisguy212: Can you say the same bolded for the first 5books if the OT attributed to moses? the first word indicate, it was not Jesus that wrote it but mark. When someone is written your story, how will he wrote it? By writing your name ,but if you are the one writing the story of your life, no need for you to include your name because the readers know the book is about you . And I asked was jesus preaching what mark mattew PAUL and co wrote when he said Mark 1:14-15 The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel’" Mark wrote what the holy spirit revealed to him. Including the contradictions and inconsistencies in it? Jesus did not speak His own words, but the words that the Father gave Him (John 8:38-42; 12:49-50; 14:24). There are 2problems here^^: 1. If jesus spoke the word his father gave him as his gospel, then why do we have the words of Paul, mattew mark luke and john as the gospel of jesus today? 2. Christian claim jesus is the word of God, how do you reconcile that with the underlined? can a word be given a word  His message was not primarily about Himself, but rather the good news that the Father ordained to be announced on earth. And i asked, what is the good news that jesus preached? atleast you have affirmed that he didnt preach about himself contrary to your firsr claim on this thread. While Jesus Christ was categorically the most important individual ever to walk this earth, the Bible shows clearly that the gospel that Jesus brought was not simply about Himself. Read His statements, and prove this for yourself: Malvisguy, you've just contradicted yourself here^^ Here is your first claim. the gospel details the life and deed of jesus If the gospel according to Mark Mattew paul and co, then what gospel was jesus preaching in Mark 1:14-15.? 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by malvisguy212: 6:28pm On Mar 01, 2015 |
Rilwayne001:1. we are not talking about the old testament here. 2.you don't expect me to teach you what is the meaning of "inspired by God" did Moses see when God created adam and eve?why did he wrote it down? Who inspired him? And Paul did not preach any gospel,Paul epistle was a TEACHING NOT a gospel,Paul teach what Jesus preach. 3.are you lazy to read my post? Dint you read where I say the "good news" that Jesus Christ brought was about the KINGDOM OF GOD!!!!? The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail. ( Luke 16:16-17) 4.the apostle wrote what the holy spirit inspired them and it include the life and deed of Jesus, but the PRIMARILY goal is about the kingdom of God. 5.Paul did not wrote any Gospel,he teach what Jesus preach, mark and the rest wrote what was inspired to them. Now do justice and answer my question. |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 6:54pm On Mar 01, 2015 |
This thread is more appropriate for this discussion. I posted a long essay detailing how bible was written and so fourth. I am really tired of repeating myself. If you had read the essay it answered your questions. Or at least most part. If you havent then, read it and post reasonable question as clear as possible. rilwayne is answring same question indirectly here but u dont get it. You answer the question yourself too in this quote. malvisguy212: 3 Likes |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by malvisguy212: 7:43pm On Mar 01, 2015 |
Empiree:what are you saying, I don't understand you, you are not the one I reply for. If yoi think the bible is corrupted, then produce the scripture Allah ask you to make confirmation with.you need to be worried because the book Allah ask you to check, you say it corrupted. |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 8:04pm On Mar 01, 2015 |
malvisguy212:  Dont get nervous. I understand the pressure after you got busted Now let me ask you this. Did you act in the movie called "I Robot"?. The reason I asked is because you keep repeating yourself like a machine. If you remember quiet alright not too long ago, I refuted your claim "that Quran asks muslims to ask christians if we dont know". Actually, I will try to dig it out and repost it here later on cus you vexing me right now.Also, if you scroll up or to previous page, I even quoted hadith about this same thing how our prophet warned muslims from believing things from your Book because you have altered your Book. I do like to be patient with you though bcuz we never know if Allah will soften your heart to be able to comprehend. Fact is, it's onus on you to produce "original" Gospel thought by Jesus ( Allah's peace and Blessings be upon him). The problem doesnt lie with me but you. I have explained very clearly in the essay above. Plus you saw my replies to pastorkun. When i asked him of original Bible, he said it can be found at the vatican Now, he said Jesus never read Gospel. I am sure you read his reply on that thread cuz I saw you but you didnt say anything.Now you have 3 options. * Go to vatican and scan us "original Gospel" *Present us what you think is original Gospel of Jesus (we already know that NT that you have written by Mat Mk Lk Jn) are bogus *Or embrace Islam as final solution to your dilemma 3 Likes |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Rilwayne001: 8:24pm On Mar 01, 2015 |
Empiree: The dude no doubt is a robot. I give up : 3 Likes |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by SNCOQ3(m): 9:02pm On Mar 01, 2015 |
First, gospel means good news, tiding. Greek: euggelizo - to announce good news("evangelize"  ; declare,bring, show glad(good) tidings, preach the good news.matt 4:23 (euggellion) mark 1:14-15(euggellion) luke 4:18(euggelizo) "Gospel" is usually used in 2 ways in reference to the bible: M1. The message of redemption: the good news that God is reconcilling the world unto himself through Jesus Christ: whether its a prophetic text that falls within this category in the book of Isaiah or Jesus proclaiming it from town to town or paul or malvinguy,ifeann evangelizing it....etc; its the gospel. M2. The 4 canonical books of the NT: Matt, Mark, Luke,John which are about the life, works, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ from different. When Jesus read from the book of Isaiah, He was reading a prophetic gospel which His works will be a fulfilment to. When we say malvinguy is reading from the gospel, it means he is reading from matt, mark, luke, john (M2). If malvin is preaching the gospel, then its (M1) regardless of which OT and NT books he is referencing. Its all about context. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Ifeann(f): 9:06pm On Mar 01, 2015 |
SNCOQ3: Beautifully explained.. remain blessed my friend. 1 Like |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by SNCOQ3(m): 9:10pm On Mar 01, 2015 |
Ifeann:God bless you too my dear sis. 2 Likes |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 11:56pm On Mar 01, 2015 |
SNCOQ3:While I respect your contribution, this still doesnt proof anything. I dont need to be told Gospel is "evangelism". Evangelism is what Muslims called "Dawah" i:e propagation, invite, etc. Even Satan also do evangelism. So thats not the point. Point is did those Bible writers ACCURATELY gave correct accounts (everything about Jesus including his teachings) he was sent with by Allah? Because there are too many inconsistencies knowing that its all hearsays. I really dont need to say much. There is a book written by Friedman titled "Who Wrote The Bible?". I read it several times already. I dont want to go there for now. Who are those culprits who claimed they were "inspired" by "holy ghost" who penned New Testament? Who copied who?. They dont even have last names, their backgrounds are unknown. Whether you guys like it or not, questions will always linger around your Gospel or Bible. So mr. your comment is not sufficient. 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 4:36am On Mar 02, 2015 |
Continued.... [size=15pt]Scholars Of The Bible Say The Bible Has Been Badly Edited And Corrupted Over Time[/size] Critical scholars today are generally in agreement that the sources of the Pentateuch were 4 separate documents written in different times by different authors. These source documents were called the J (Jehowah/Yahweh), E (Elohim) D (Deuteronomic), and the P (priestly), documents. Internal evidence shows that “J” originated from the southern kingdom of Judah and was the earliest to be documented around 900BC; “E” was written in the northern kingdom of Israel probably about a century or so later. The “D” document is dated to about 700BC. The documents were then combined into one by the priesthood, who added their own “Priestly” tradition to it, during the Babylonian exile (after 560 BC). We are not concerned here with the basis of this theory as our purpose is simply to show that it could not have been written by Moses-a fundamentalist bedrock belief. For more on this read Anderson, A Critical Introduction to the Old Testament. The gospels are not eyewitness accounts -Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School Some scholars say so many revisions occurred in the 100 years following Jesus' death that no one can be absolutely sure of the accuracy or authenticity of the Gospels, especially of the words the authors attributed to Jesus himself. -Jeffery L. Sheler. Even the Biblical book of Jeremiah clearly states that the scribes of the ancient Israelites altered the revealed scriptures given to the Israelites by Allah, and thus changed them “into a lie”. [size=15pt]" 'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?[/size] (Jeremiah 8:8 New International Version) [b]Conclusions/Notes/Bibliography[/b] So in conclusion, one can see that the Quran maintains that the books of the Jews and Christians have been corrupted, altered and edited over time. When the Quran talks about the Torah, Psalms and the Gospel it is speaking about the original versions given to Moses, David and Jesus. It is not talking about the current Torah, Psalms and the Four Canonical Gospels we have today. Notes and Bib: [1] For more verses from the Quran which point to the Bible being corrupted see Quran 4:46, 5:41,44, 6:91, 10:93, 11:110, 15:90, 41:45, 62:5 [2] "The catholic papers," (U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 10, 1990) melvisguy212, this is just of my replies ^ Next.... [size=20pt]Paul and the Origins of Christianity[/size] to be continued..... |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by AllNaijaBlogger(m): 5:05am On Mar 02, 2015 |
I can't stop laughing at the ignorance of Messrs Empiree and Rilwayne01. They clearly did not know that Jesus read the old testament and that the new testament is an account of his life told by others. Everyone can see that these guys have an agenda to attack christianity. Empiree is even hypocritically copying and pasting from anti-christian websites when he is against christians copying from anti-islamic websites. Whether they like it or not, Jesus is our saviour and the bible is far more reliable on Jesus than the Quran. Jesus himself quoted the old testament as he lived with other Jews. Jesus appeared in the bible long before the advent of islam. 1 Like |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 5:18am On Mar 02, 2015 |
AllNaijaBlogger:Empty as usual. All you have to do is present evidence. That's all I am waiting for. Everything else is nonsense. And pls stop talking about copying from anti-christian websites and look in the mirror. This is website your girlf friend that you hide behind her skirt copied many things from. Is it pro-Islam website? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm . If you have counterclaim, bring it forward. If you have nothing to say, abeg, zip it. Now listen to one of your silly brothers hell bent and no manners and others embracing ISLAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ib0IF7jnWQ 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by joseph1832(m): 6:58am On Mar 02, 2015 |
AllNaijaBlogger: |
| Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 7:22am On Mar 02, 2015 |
[quote author=joseph1832 post=31217528][/quote] AllNaijaBlogger:"told by others". Who are they?. Sorry you dont have a case yet. Quran is direct word of Allah(God) through Archangel (Jubril) to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Word for Word. No hearsays by men like your Bible. And who told you we dont know Jesus knew about Old Testament? And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law (Torah) that had come before him. We sent him the Gospel; therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Torah (which came) before me, The holy verses of Qur'an agree with the Gospel where Jesus said: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil (M't: 5:17). The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) carried a Call that came to clarify previous Revelations and spell out what was misunderstood. To thee We sent the Book in truth, confirming the Book that came before it, and guarding it in safety (HQ: 5:48) These verses show that we (muslims) know that Jesus knew about Old Book that came before him. I can go on and on. But you havent make any sense yet. Just hiding behind a skirt, you &past.kun 1 Like |
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