ChokolateBoss:

Uwc. To me, Dave Armstrong is d best catholic apologist online. The strength of his logical arguments is simply overwhelming. Its almost impossible to fault his logic. He uses the socratic method in his arguments. This is his blog: socrates58..com. Everything catholic is in there

Already read a little of his blog. You're correct.

One apologist whose style of arguing I love and emulate is John Martignoni.

He knows how to table his argument clearly while making his opponents look stupidd.

Www.biblechristiansociety.com is his site.

italo:


Let me help you.

An election in which many INEC State Collation Officers reported rampant hijacking of ballot boxes, card readers, ballot papers, result sheets, and even election officials, substitution of INEC Officials, over-voting...

...Gov Rochas was filmed confronting the Army for locking away eligible voters in his home town, Gov Oshiomhole was seen on TV saying the Army prevented INEC Officers from going to their posts. Gov Amaechi is seen on TV reporting missing result sheets at his PU. Hundreds of thousands couldn't get their PVCs because INEC Staff connived with party agents to steal them.

The definition of the above, according to you and Kumuyi is "Free and fair."

What then is an election that is not free and fair? Perhaps until a nuclear bomb is dropped on the voters.

I leave you to your conscience, if you have one.

Again:

.:

Free, Fair, and Regular
As with defining electoral and representative
systems, there are no precise definitions for
regular, free, and fair elections. International
human rights conventions have established a
basic consensus, most importantly Article 21 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states that elections must be periodic, genuine, organized according to universal suffrage, and by secret ballot.

Regular or periodic means holding elections
on a set schedule known to the electorate,
either on a specified date (the first Tuesday
of November every other year, as in the
United States) or within a particular time
frame (within five years of the previous
election, as for Parliament in the United Kingdom), thereby guaranteeing citizens the opportunity to change their leaders and to support new policies.

Free and fair, or genuine, means that elections offer equal opportunities for all
competing parties and candidates. Such
equality requires the ability of political
parties and candidates to register for office
without unreasonable requirements, balanced
access to the media for all candidates, the
absence of campaign finance abuse, and an
independent electoral process.

For democracy to work, everyone must
agree to accept the results of freely held
elections. The people and parties who have
lost power, or those who failed to gain it,
must be willing to accept defeat. If the loser
refuses to accept the winner, the election's
legitimacy is diminished and the political
system may be marked by conflict and
instability. A key test for a democracy is the
successful and peaceful transfer of power
from one party to another. Indeed, this is a
continuous test for any democracy, even
established ones, as the United States
witnessed during the 2000
presidential elections.

www.democracyweb.org/elections/principles.php

Does Kumuyi's statement conform to that?
Yes or No?

Simple question.
When you answer, we can move to your side of the election story.

adsonstone:


First, understand that being guilty does not necessarily constitute direct wrongdoing.
A guilty person may be merely culpable.

An eyewitness to a robbery who is scared to disclose the robbers he saw is innocent, yet culpable.


How can someone be a sinner, yet saint?
Explain.

See how u're making urself sound stupid just because u want to win argument.
How can u say being guilty does not constitute direct wrongdoing? If u're guilty of sth, then there's direct wrongdoing involved in that thing u're guilty of.
Guilty pple are culpable of their offence. It follows logically. E.g if u're guilty of theft, then culpability follows. A culpable person is someone who deserves blame or censure. Now if someone actually deserves blame or censure, then d person cannot be innocent cos innocent pple do not deserve blame or censure.

As for ur analogy, its deeply flawed. One cannot be innocent and culpable of a crime at d same time. That's a contradiction. The eyewitness who is scared to expose the robbers will be guilty of obstruction of justice and hence culpable. He won't be guilty of armed robbery or censured for it.

Abeg I've digressed from the OP. Shouldn't be explaining this to a grown asss man sef

ChokolateBoss:


See how u're making urself sound stupid just because u want to win argument.
How can u say being guilty does not constitute direct wrongdoing? If u're guilty of sth, then there's direct wrongdoing involved in that thing u're guilty of.
Guilty pple are culpable of their offence. It follows logically. E.g if u're guilty of theft, then culpability follows. A culpable person is someone who deserves blame or censure. Now if someone actually deserves blame or censure, then d person cannot be innocent cos innocent pple do not deserve blame or censure.

As for ur analogy, its deeply flawed. One cannot be innocent and culpable of a crime at d same time. That's a contradiction. The eyewitness who is scared to expose the robbers will be guilty of obstruction of justice and hence culpable. He won't be guilty of armed robbery or censured for it.


Abeg I've digressed from the OP. Shouldn't be explaining this to a grown asss man sef

The bold in your statement validates my point.
The said man is innocent, yet culpable.

You seem to be in-between your words.

Besides, I'm not trying to win any argument...and if you are, I declare you winner.
Congratulations!

U

adsonstone:



Again:



www.democracyweb.org/elections/principles.php

Does Kumuyi's statement conform to that?
Yes or No?

Simple question.
When you answer, we can move to your side of the election story.

NO.

From the link you provided:

Free, Fair, and Regular
As with defining electoral and representative
systems, there are no precise definitions for
regular, free, and fair elections. International
human rights conventions have established a
basic consensus, most importantly Article 21 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states that elections must be periodic, genuine, organized according to universal suffrage, and by secret ballot.

Is the video below what you understand by the bold?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szFfQOelXJs&app=desktop



An election in which many INEC State Collation Officers reported rampant hijacking of ballot boxes, card readers, ballot papers, result sheets, and even election officials, substitution of INEC Officials, over-voting...

...Gov Rochas was filmed confronting the Army for locking away eligible voters in his home town, Gov Oshiomhole was seen on TV saying the Army prevented INEC Officers from going to their posts. Gov Amaechi is seen on TV reporting missing result sheets at his PU. Hundreds of thousands couldn't get their PVCs because INEC Staff connived with party agents to steal them.

Is this what the bold means?

ChokolateBoss:


See how u're making urself sound stupid just because u want to win argument.
How can u say being guilty does not constitute direct wrongdoing? If u're guilty of sth, then there's direct wrongdoing involved in that thing u're guilty of.
Guilty pple are culpable of their offence. It follows logically. E.g if u're guilty of theft, then culpability follows. A culpable person is someone who deserves blame or censure. Now if someone actually deserves blame or censure, then d person cannot be innocent cos innocent pple do not deserve blame or censure.

As for ur analogy, its deeply flawed. One cannot be innocent and culpable of a crime at d same time. That's a contradiction. The eyewitness who is scared to expose the robbers will be guilty of obstruction of justice and hence culpable. He won't be guilty of armed robbery or censured for it.

Abeg I've digressed from the OP. Shouldn't be explaining this to a grown asss man sef

That's what you get on nairaland. Shameless people who would rather die than accept a simple truth. What pains me most is that many of them claim to be "Christians."

Christianity built on lies.

adsonstone:


The bold in your statement validates my point.
The said man is innocent, yet culpable.

You seem to be in-between your words.

Besides, I'm not trying to win any argument...and if you are, I declare you winner.
Congratulations!

So u're still saying someone can be innocent of an offence and still deserve to be blamed or censured for that same offence.
Ogbeni FOH. I don't like coming across ur type

italo:
U

NO.

From the link you provided:

Free, Fair, and Regular
As with defining electoral and representative
systems, there are no precise definitions for
regular, free, and fair elections. International
human rights conventions have established a
basic consensus, most importantly Article 21 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states that elections must be periodic, genuine, organized according to universal suffrage, and by secret ballot.

Is the video below what you understand by the bold?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szFfQOelXJs&app=desktop



An election in which many INEC State Collation Officers reported rampant hijacking of ballot boxes, card readers, ballot papers, result sheets, and even election officials, substitution of INEC Officials, over-voting...

...Gov Rochas was filmed confronting the Army for locking away eligible voters in his home town, Gov Oshiomhole was seen on TV saying the Army prevented INEC Officers from going to their posts. Gov Amaechi is seen on TV reporting missing result sheets at his PU. Hundreds of thousands couldn't get their PVCs because INEC Staff connived with party agents to steal them.

Is this what the bold means?

It is a futile attempt to argue with these kind of pple cos truth and sound logic makes no sense to them. So I advise u quit and focus on ur thread. Else u'll just be wasting time, energy and bandwidth

ChokolateBoss:


So u're still saying someone can be innocent of an offence and still deserve to be blamed or censured for that same offence.
Ogbeni FOH. I don't like coming across ur type

For the same offence?
I can't remember saying that.
Please, show me where.

adsonstone:


For the same offence?
I can't remember saying that.
Please, show me where.

Ogbeni like I told u b4, FOH. Na me u wan folo do wordplay? Someone cannot be innocent and yet culpable. Use a dictionary and check d meaning of culpable. When u're wrong, accept correctn n stop arguing pointlessly
Stop quoting me.

italo:
U

NO.

From the link you provided:

Free, Fair, and Regular
As with defining electoral and representative
systems, there are no precise definitions for
regular, free, and fair elections. International
human rights conventions have established a
basic consensus, most importantly Article 21 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states that elections must be periodic, genuine, organized according to universal suffrage, and by secret ballot.

Is the video below what you understand by the bold?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szFfQOelXJs&app=desktop



An election in which many INEC State Collation Officers reported rampant hijacking of ballot boxes, card readers, ballot papers, result sheets, and even election officials, substitution of INEC Officials, over-voting...

...Gov Rochas was filmed confronting the Army for locking away eligible voters in his home town, Gov Oshiomhole was seen on TV saying the Army prevented INEC Officers from going to their posts. Gov Amaechi is seen on TV reporting missing result sheets at his PU. Hundreds of thousands couldn't get their PVCs because INEC Staff connived with party agents to steal them.

Is this what the bold means?

Evidence for the bold?

ChokolateBoss:


Ogbeni like I told u b4, FOH. Na me u wan folo do wordplay? Someone cannot be innocent and yet culpable. Use a dictionary and check d meaning of culpable. When u're wrong, accept correctn n stop arguing pointlessly
Stop quoting me.

But someone can be a saint, yet sinner.

Thanks anyway, your frustration has been noticed.

adsonstone:



Evidence for the bold?

http://www.naij.com/412154-inec-officials-party-agents-arrested-
-sokoto.html
http://www.naij.com/412616-apc-presented-thousands-of-discarded-ballots-in-akwa-ibom.html

http://dailytimes.com.ng/inec-official-arrested-for-illegally-collating-results-in-delta/

http://leadership.ng/news/421741/police-arrest-inec-official-in-taraba-over-electoral-fraud

https://www.youtube.com/embed/WLIakdsUzLs
http://www.naij.com/412127-gov-okorocha-demands-the-release-of-voters-unlawfully-detained-by-army.html
http://dailyindependentnig.com/2015/03/oshiomhole-shocked-soldiers-block-inec-officials/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCmjB8P11D0

Let me agree with you that the above practices are the true definition of free and fair election... at least in deeper life church...so that I don't have to put up with your deceit any longer.

italo:
http://www.naij.com/412154-inec-officials-party-agents-arrested-
-sokoto.html
http://www.naij.com/412616-apc-presented-thousands-of-discarded-ballots-in-akwa-ibom.html

http://dailytimes.com.ng/inec-official-arrested-for-illegally-collating-results-in-delta/

http://leadership.ng/news/421741/police-arrest-inec-official-in-taraba-over-electoral-fraud

https://www.youtube.com/embed/WLIakdsUzLs
http://www.naij.com/412127-gov-okorocha-demands-the-release-of-voters-unlawfully-detained-by-army.html
http://dailyindependentnig.com/2015/03/oshiomhole-shocked-soldiers-block-inec-officials/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCmjB8P11D0

Let me agree with you that the above practices are the true definition of free and fair election...at least in deeper life church...so that I don't have to put up with your deceit any longer.

Inasmuch as most of the reports you put up there are mere allegations, some may be valid.

Also, I believe it is not wrong for a pastor to make a positive pronouncement with optimism...unless you wanna prove otherwise.
The essence of his statement on the message was to urge Nigerians not to be scared of the elections and that their votes will count.

In a previous meeting

.:

Kumuyi said, “Sometimes people
misunderstood the power of prophecy and
there are people who will make negative
pronouncements. Pronouncements are not
necessarily prophecies. Every utterance on
Nigeria breaking up is a pronouncement made
from observations and not prophecies.

“I believe those who made those
pronouncements based on some things they
see or feel should say ‘they feel Nigeria may
break up’ and not that God said that. Because
if God could hear the voice of only Moses and
spared Israel and they still exist over 3,000
years after, then God loves Nigeria and would
not allow it to break up.