BlackManta:


I disagree

DC movies belong to the big screens only, none of that streaming bullshit.

Imagine watching iconic characters like Superman and Batman on a streaming platform.

It's gonna set a very bad precedent. Like why anticipate these characters and their stories if you can watch them at home?

One of the reasons The Batman didn't make more money as it should is because the previous WB regime only let it play 45 days in theaters before dumping it on HBO Max.

That's how they wanted to dump Blue Beetle on streaming until Zaslav intervened.

Anybody that wants to see Superman and Batman, Wonder Woman should go to the cinema.
Unless you want to tell a longer story with a TV series like James Gunn wants to do with Lanterns and Paradise Lost.

Apart from that, anything movie, theatre straight on the IMAX and premium screens.

One thing WB must do is stop making $200m DC films.

The first 5 DCU films should get not more than $150m budgets. And these movies have to be GREAT. Not average, not good, GREAT.

That way you can restore the audience faith in DC films in shortest possible time.

Minemrys:

Aquaman hasn't done well in test screenings. Don't expect that movie to be retained.

Xavier5:


Of what's use are the "iconic characters" on the big screen when they are bombing?

We are talking about building a franchise brand using HBO MAX, then when the franchise brand has been built, the movies goes back to cinema and make their money.

With the above, the franchise brand is created without incurring unnecessary loses, WBD makes money through collective annual HBO MAX revenue, HBO MAX gets massive increase in it's subscribers.

The truth of the matter is, the first five DCU films have high possibility of underperforming at the BO whether we like it or not, and the "iconic characters" won't stop it. They should have plans to harness HBO MAX to build a franchise brand before going back to cinema.

What WBD should do is;
1.) Release the first two DCU films in cinema, and if they perform well, then they proceed with further cinematic releases.
2.) If the two films underperform, then they should port to HBO MAX to build the franchise brand.
3.) They build the franchise brand by enormously progressing on the planned saga or completing the planned saga.
4.) When the franchise brand has been built, then they go back to cinema and harness the franchise brand in making money.
5.) They should make sure their films are of high quality and standard.
6.) They should also minimize cost in other to maximize revenue.

That's the way to save the franchise and get audience interest and faith in it. "Iconic characters" won't save it, rather strategy, quality, patience, resilience and sacrifice will.



#Xavier
#DCian

abduleez1:


Lol, I always tell you this talk of buying off DC from WB ain't gonna work. WB the way I see it are going to give you their balls for castration first before even thinking of selling off DC to anyone.
You want DC, you buy the total package.

I'm optimistic this time there might be some stability in DC after this phase. WBD sell off is mostly speculation. Even if there's a selloff at play, there's hardly a credible media conglomerate with the money and wherewithal to buy WB presently.
The usual suspects in Paramount (Viacom) and even Universal's parent company Comcast are deep in debt and hardly have that liquidity for a major buyout in the next two years that analysts predicted the WBD sale to happen.

Zaslav seems primed for the long term business. The only other top companies with deep pockets to easily fund a WB buyout are basically Apple and Amazon since both companies stocks are worth over $1.5 trillion individually. Amazon already bought MGM in 2021 and Apple rarely spend big money for acquisitions. Apple biggest acquisition is $3bn for beats electronics.
Anyone looking to buy WB presently would be ready to shell out around $70bn or more.

Even if WB gets sold again by Discovery, the way Zaslav has restructured the company and DC, it's hard for anybody to come and make a U-turn. Cos DC's independence is the way to go. Besides if another company buys off DC, how sure are you that same shit that happened over at WB won't persist.
At least this time it's pretty clear DC has its independence with James and Safran making the overall decisions. DC Studios presently isn't under WB executive authority no more and that's good for the brand. This way the personality of the brand shines through instead of the tussle between creatives at DC and the business minded executives who see DC as a subsidiary of them.

Zaslav's number one priority for theatrical movies under WB is DC. And he has said it many times, he's banking on DC to drive WB's future growth. Of course there's a slight pressure for DC to perform but at least there's optimum care for the franchise as other franchises that could have fetch money are hibernating like Wizarding World, LOTR.

DC is being unbundled, from gaming, comics to movies and TV show. Zaslav almost sold WB Games earlier last year but you can see he's happy he luckily didn't sell it after the massive profits Hogwarts Legacy has brought with its record sales.
That total franchise universe is what the man hopes to achieve with DC.

BlackManta:


You need to see the damage streaming did to Pixar. A brand that used to be a giant in the animation industry but nowadays they have been a shadow of their former self just like DC.

They started by dropping Soul on Disney+, then Raya and the Last Dragon, Encanto, Turning Red... until it started diminishing the value of those films and the need to see them in a Cinema.

It's not like Pixar films are bad. Only Lightyear can be held as a bad film among all the films they released since 2020.

Streaming is not good for a franchise unless you have huge amount of subscribers and plenty money like Netflix.

HBO Max doesn't have the subscriber number of Netflix. Dumping DC films on Max means reducing the number of audiences they can get.

There's also the issue of piracy.
Imagine watching a DC film in clear ultra HD on the day it drops.

That is really bad.

SONY that is trying to expand a franchise off the back of their Spiderman would never consider this streaming of a thing.

DC movies must remain theatrical.
But with budget control ($150m max) and quality control.

If James Gunn can kick off the DCU with 5 great movies back to back, the fanbase will start getting steady growth and trust in the DC brand will be restored.

Xavier5:


First of all, we are talking about building a franchise, and the streaming platform is the best platform to do that due to not incurring unne the loses unlike cinema. With steaming you don't bother about box office performance, but rather streaming views, critical reception and overall annual streaming revenue, and guess what, DCU films on HBO MAX will definitely get the streaming views, and not only that, they will also skyrocket the subscribers numbers which equates to exponential streaming revenue, especially annual. With this, you find out that annually, the studio ends up making lots of money compare to the loses they would have made.

But we should not forget why the movies are on HBO MAX. They are there to build a brand for the franchise through enormous progress on the planned saga or completion of the planned saga. When the brand has been built, they transition back to cinema. DCU films on HBO MAX is to create a franchise brand without incurring loses for the studio since the studio will make back the money and profit from streaming revenues (annual)

Secondly, the issue here is you not acknowledging the differences in streaming revenue model and that of cinema. Streaming doesn't go with the distinct film revenue model like cinema, rather it goes with collective annual revenue.
And guess what, the distinct film revenues all boil down to the collective annual revenue at the end of the year, and if that's the case, what's the obsession with the money each movie made when everything boils down to the studio's annual revenue.

What matters is what the studio makes at the end of the year and not what each films made. In 2022, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Amazon Prime Video, Disney+ made tens of billions of dollars from their annual streaming revenues, how many studios made that level of revenue with distinct box office revenues? None.

See, it's not about what each films made, it is about what the studio made. Streaming does not give you distinct film revenues but collective annual revenues, and that's what matters since the various distinct box office revenues all boils down to the collective annual revenue. Of what is are the distinct box office revenue if at the end of the annual report, it amounts to nothing.

Thirdly, talking about profitablity, streaming mode of calculating profitablity is different from cinema. Cinema does it own at distinct film levels, while streaming does it own collectively. Streaming is always collective annual revenue minus collective annual budget. And if the platform has high subscribers, definitely it profit will be high.
Talking about profit and subscribers, as earlier stated, DCU films on HBO MAX will pull audience that didn't want to go to cinema (thanks to streaming being economical; monthly subscription to see the film and other films unlike Cinema). This in turn will increase HBO MAX subscribers which equates to high streaming revenues and then, good collective annual profit.

So yes, DCU movies on HBO MAX for the limited period of building the franchise brand will do the franchise and WBD good. When the franchise brand has been created, DCU movies goes back to cinema.

I know this is alien to you, it hasn't been done, but that's the way for WBD to avoid unnecessary loses.



#Xavier
#DCian

BlackManta:


You need to see the damage streaming did to Pixar. A brand that used to be a giant in the animation industry but nowadays they have been a shadow of their former self just like DC.

They started by dropping Soul on Disney+, then Raya and the Last Dragon, Encanto, Turning Red... until it started diminishing the value of those films and the need to see them in a Cinema.

It's not like Pixar films are bad. Only Lightyear can be held as a bad film among all the films they released since 2020.

Streaming is not good for a franchise unless you have huge amount of subscribers and plenty money like Netflix.

HBO Max doesn't have the subscriber number of Netflix. Dumping DC films on Max means reducing the number of audiences they can get.

There's also the issue of piracy.
Imagine watching a DC film in clear ultra HD on the day it drops.

That is really bad.

SONY that is trying to expand a franchise off the back of their Spiderman would never consider this streaming of a thing.

DC movies must remain theatrical.
But with budget control ($150m max) and quality control.

If James Gunn can kick off the DCU with 5 great movies back to back, the fanbase will start getting steady growth and trust in the DC brand will be restored.

Xavier5:


Test screenings doesn't determine the performance of films. There are movies with good test screenings that ended up performing badly and vice versa.

When the movie releases, we will know if it will perform well or not. But my bet is on the movie performing. I see it making a minimum of $700M. The possibility of it grossing a billion dollar will be low, but it will perform well. I see the Black Panther 2 scenario here.

And talking about being retained, Aquaman is already been retained. Aquaman 2, according to Gunn, is in the DCU. Its event is set after flash, and post flash era is the DCU.



#Xavier
#DCian

abduleez1:


You're not understanding my point or choose to ignore it.

Your claim of a streaming service having high subs means it will be profitable is warped.
Disney+ has a very high subscriber count but is making huge losses because of money spent on content that haven't been recovered.

I don't think you're more versed in streaming financials than an Hollywood executive. David Zaslav said movies that premiered in theatres performed better than films that are streaming exclusive. No film has screened in theatres and went on to underperform in streaming. Theatrical releases has more exposure than streaming exclusives. All the more reason he's shifting his focus on theatrical movies and has committed to dropping 15-20 films per year from 2024.

ALL the best performing movies on HBOMax are ALL films that appeared in theatres.
The evidence is there to see.
Is it WW84, GvK, Mortal Kombat, TSS etc.
Even The Batman that stayed exclusively in theatres for 45 days smashed records of same day releases like the 2021 films and even ZSJL.
Make of that what you will.

Also if you're arguing it makes money collectively just like I said (aggregate), how do you specifically tell if a particular film was the ONE that brought the subscribers and not another movie or TV show??

Again, you're forgetting the fact that theatrical movies still have life outside the box office. Even flops in theatrical box office can still go on to make profits with DVD sales. And there's still movies that are sold to cable TV networks and airlines that makes money.
I'm not even talking about merchandise yet. All these streaming exclusive lacks.

The profitability of $50mn is different from a film you produced for $200mn. This ain't feasible when you're not Netflix or Amazon with $1tn backing.
You're also ignoring the fact I showed you with traditional streamers like Amazon Video and Apple TV plus releasing movies in theatres. Even the Netflix you're basing your analogy on released films last year in theatres before hitting the streamer.

I don't just conjure numbers or financial opinions, I drop facts and figures.

abduleez1:


I also don't like Hoult for Superman. He's too broody.
I'd prefer David Corenswet even tho I haven't watched him perform. 🙃

Anyways, these castings does have their fans and some people excited by the outcome.
James Gunn has been doing good so far in terms of creatives joining his universe.

Minemrys:

When the test screenings are bad, there usually is a problem with the film, which will call for rewrites and multiple reshoots. Even then, things might still be problematic. I have never heard of films that tested bad in screenings but ended up loved. Test screenings are for public viewers not critics by the way.

Xavier5:
So after all the noise of The Flash bombing, it still ended with a $139M opening weekend.

For the "that's too poor" crew, understand that big openings does not equate to commercial success of a film but its ability to perform well over the coming weeks. Never forget BvS, Shazam, JL, MoS etc

BvS had opening weekend of over $400M; Shazam, $150M; JL, over $200M; MoS, over $150M. How did they perform eventually?

To me,The Flash opening is okay, but let's see how well it can go in the coming weeks.

And so you know, The Flash supposed competitor, Elemental, had an opening weekend of $48M. It seems it's an Industry thing now, not just Comic book films or "The Flash."


#Xavier
#DCian

Xavier5:
So after all the noise of The Flash bombing, it still ended with a $139M opening weekend.

For the "that's too poor" crew, understand that big openings does not equate to commercial success of a film but its ability to perform well over the coming weeks. Never forget BvS, Shazam, JL, MoS etc

BvS had opening weekend of over $400M; Shazam, $150M; JL, over $200M; MoS, over $150M. How did they perform eventually?

To me,The Flash opening is okay, but let's see how well it can go in the coming weeks.

And so you know, The Flash supposed competitor, Elemental, had an opening weekend of $48M. It seems it's an Industry thing now, not just Comic book films or "The Flash."


#Xavier
#DCian

pu7pl3:


Only thing the movie needs is good word of mouth. Many people that rushed to see the movie first were just haters and with the trend DC has been on many Loyal fans were just being cautious.
I think if more people come out and squash this nonsense talk of bad CGI and incoherent story the movie will gain some legs.

abduleez1:



All these you're saying is just reductive.

$139mm opening weekend is for worldwide and not domestic box office. The US and Canada cumes is around $55mn opening weekend.

That cume for the flash is disastrous and is even lower than Black Adam.
It's either you're ignorant or don't know how box office works.

Black Adam's opened to $140mn WORLDWIDE and ended up earning $393mn in final BO gross.
For the Flash that was made for a reported $190-220mn that's a massive flop.

I no know where you dey get your info from. 😟
For the scale of that movie it should be doing at least $300mn opening weekend worldwide.

And no Elemental was NEVER considered a Flash competition. It's with SpiderVerse, The Little Mermaid, Transformers and upcoming Indiana Jones.

Xavier5:
Cc abduleez1

Below is a screenshot of me talking about WBD minimizing cost of production and marketing to maximize profits.

As a matter of fact, WBD should make some of its film's production and marketing budget to be that same. That is, if a film's budget is $200M, it should consist of both production and marketing.

And for some of its films that requires different production and marketing budget, the maximum marketing budget should be the value of the production budget. E.g if production budget is $200M, the maximum marketing budget should be $200M resulting in a BEP of $400M.

With this, the BEP will always be between 1x to 2x multiplier. This increases the profitablity of their films both in cinema and HBO MAX. This is the principle I think Netflix applied, hence their profit.

As I earlier stated, high subscribers plus proper minimization of production and marketing cost gives good profits.



#Xavier
#DCian

Xavier5:


And you just proved my point. Big openings does not equate to eventual commercial success. The Industry is littered with such. Black Adam had $140M opening (bigger than The Flash), how did it perform eventually? BvS and JL had openings of over $400M and $200M respectively, how did they perform eventually?

Commercial success is determined by how long the movie can perform over the coming weeks, and let's see how long THE FLASH can perform. To me, its opening weekend is okay.

Aside that, estimates are what they are, estimates. They don't equate to reality due to unforeseen circumstances or factors. So I don't base the performance of a film on its opening weekend performance or its opening weekend estimates, but rather on its ability to perform over the coming weeks.

So Flash can open with $300M, $220M or $200M and end up underperforming (Shazam with $150M opening comes to mind), and Flash can open with $139M and end up performing well. Everything boils down to how well it can perform in the coming weeks. So let's see how it performs in the coming weeks.

As for Elemental being a competition, that's why I used the word "SUPPOSED," because that was the statement in some corners.


#Xavier
#DCian

abduleez1:


This is what I'm hoping for.
Na haters rush go watch that film first to dampen it's word of mouth.

There's still small hope to salvage the movie. WB needs to pump out IMAX screens for this film ASAP.
And it has good word of mouth in China and Japan.
They just need to spread the word to potential movie goers.

abduleez1:


You're still not getting it and stubbornly sticking with your opinion despite facts given to you.

The talk of Disney not minimising cost holds no water. Is it only Disney that was losing money in the financial report I posted to you?? There were literally 5 streamers listed with ONLY Netflix making profit.

Streaming is an expensive business and swallows funds to maintain it. This is standard industry belief not what you are assuming here as fact.

Most blockbuster movies has equal or almost equal production budget as well as marketing. So $200mn production cost for the Flash means about $150- $200mn for marketing. It's standard industry practice.
That's the reason why Hollywood experts tell you to multiply a movie's cost by 2.5x to calculate it's break even point. Anything above that is in profit territory.
Rarely anyone makes $200mn movies and use $300mn to market it.

Streaming movies are never going to be more profitable than theatrical movies in the years to come. So all this one you're saying is just refusing to acknowledge the truth. Even a flop like Black Adam and Shazam 2 makes more money than a streaming exclusive.

The Batman would have made more money at the BO and gotten to $900mn (if not $1bn) if not for Kilar announcing it'd be available in 45days. Still, that movie went to HBOMax and dominated all films that had same day release.
What does that tell you??

You're living in an alternate universe if you think dropping hundreds millions of dollars movies on streaming will be profitable and bring money to WB than theatrical release.

TSS was released same day with theatres same as WW84. GvK, Mortal Kombat and ALL the movies that was released on HBOMax in 2021, how many subscribers they brought in total and profits as against what they would have made in theatre exclusive?? With all the sacrifices that Kilar made to 2021 movies to promote HBOMax, the growth no pass 12mn subscribers. HBOMax had 61mn subs in 2020 and made 73mn subs in 2021 with ALL WB movies streamed the same day as cinema.
That's hardly a significant growth to me especially when considering the money that would have been made in theatres.



The way you talk sef it's kinda funny, it's as if the theatrical released movies won't eventually go to HBOMax to boost its numbers. Why focus on streaming only when you can make money both ways.

Minemrys:
This whole DCEU mess wouldn't have happened if WB hadn't ran from the initial plan they intended with Man of Steel franchise. Film grossed $660mill but WB were greedy to bring in the Trinity in what was supposed to be a sequel to MOS.
Had they done a true sequel to MOS, they would have known what they wanted going forward. But hey, they wanted a JL immediately.

Xavier5:
So after all the noise of The Flash bombing, it still ended with a $139M opening weekend.

Xavier5:


Test screenings don't determine the performance of the film, recent happenings in Hollywood attest to that.

But Aquaman 2 will perform well although its possibility of grossing a billion is low, but it will make a minimum of $700M. It will take the path of Black Panther 2.


#Xavier
#DCian

Minemrys:

And you saw this where? In the future?

abduleez1:


This is what I'm hoping for.
Na haters rush go watch that film first to dampen it's word of mouth.

There's still small hope to salvage the movie. WB needs to pump out IMAX screens for this film ASAP.
And it has good word of mouth in China and Japan.
They just need to spread the word to potential movie goers.

Minemrys:

It was a mistake announcing things too early. Again WB management have made very poor business decisions.
I still maintain they should have found a way to monetize the Snyder verse and give it it's perfect conclusion while slowly building hype for a rebooted universe. They created more damage casting everyone out while knowing there are films yet to be released.

This will place unnecessary pressure on the Gunnverse and trust me if the first 2 projects don't make bank, the whole thing is dead. And bye bye to DC films, hello Harry Potter franchise.

WBD want to make quick money as it is now and recent actions have already made them infamous.

Minemrys:

Tell me you don't believe that. haters rushing to go see a film to dampen it's word of mouth? Come on. Isn't that a stretch?
If a film is good, it stands for itself. The Flash had many issues. Miller was a PR nightmare and on the news for a lot of reasons which removed interest towards seeing the movie for a lot of people. Instead they wanted to wait for those who saw it to give thoughts on it. The film didn't help in that it had a lot of negative vibes going into it i.e reshoots, ever changing endings, and yea, it had characters contemporary folks didn't care about lol. Michael Keaton as Batman to sell a 2023 film? Lol. Film would have made more if they used Robert Pattinson or Christian Bale.
The film didn't sell itself by taking viewers out of it with poor CGI.

The CW series may have done more harm than good as recently it has taken people off the flash character in a way. Or perhaps some other negative effect.
In general the film was entertaining but not that special. The nostalgia for super hero films are dwindling and to sell it, you need to be unique. Like the Boys.