What is 'begotten'? Is it an event with a definite starting point?
Psalm 2:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 1:5 (KJV)
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?


Use this verse as a reference point

ayoku777:


The same way the Word was begotten of the Father is the same way the new creation was begotten of the Word.

So if you want to say "being begotten" means you have existed as long as the person who begat you; then it means that the new creation too has existed in Christ from eternity past.

Because the new creation is begotten of the Word as the Word was begotten of the Father.

Jesus wasn't begotten when He came into the world, He was begotten of the Father at the very beginning.

vooks:
What is 'begotten'? Is it an event with a definite starting point?
Psalm 2:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 1:5 (KJV)
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?


Use this verse as a reference point

The verse you quoted is a messianic prophecy of after Jesus rose from the dead. When He became the first begotten from the dead; the firstborn of the new creation.

But before that time Jesus was already the begotten son of God.

John 3v16 -For God so loved the world, that He sent His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

See this scripture? Jesus was the begotten Son of God even before He came into the world.

To be begotten means you have an origin, a source. You didn't come out of nowhere. Only the Father is source-less.

vooks:
This is what I need Ayoku clarifying

The first scripture shows that God is one. Trying to make Jesus "a God" instead of part of the God head is difficult since He is not separate from God as a member of the Godhead I.e the Son. The other "Gods" statement doesn’t qualify since God is One.

ayoku777:


The verse you quoted was after Jesus rose from the dead. When He became the first begotten from the dead; the firstborn of the dead.

Before that time Jesus was already the begotten son.

I don't follow your logic; how/why do you conclude that this verse is pointing to his resurrection? Walk me through your reasoning

John 3v16 -For God so loved the world, that He sent His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

See this scripture? Jesus was the begotten Son of God even before He came into the world.

I reluctantly agree but it still don't explain what begotten is

To be begotten means you have an origin, a source. You didn't come out of nowhere. Only the Father is source-less.

This would make much sense if ONLY Jesus originated from the Father. We all did so why is he called the ONLY BEGOTTEN?

These questions are getting exhaustive.

vooks:

I don't follow your logic; how/why do you conclude that this verse is pointing to his resurrection? Walk me through your reasoning

How I concluded that this is a post-resurrection messianic prophecy is because of the preceeding and proceeding verses of that same Psalm 2.

Verse 1 -Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

Verse 2 -The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed?

When did the heathens rage? And when did the rulers take counsel against the Lord's anointed?

All these took place at the trial and crucifixion of Christ.

Verse 8 -Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

When was Jesus given authority over all the earth? Before or after His resurrection?

Ofcourse it was after His resurrection.

Psalm 2 is a messianic prophecy of Christ's crucifixion, resurrection and glorification.

So Verse 7 -Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee

Was after His resurrection. When He became the firstborn of the new creation, the first begotten of the dead.

Secondly, when Jesus was begotten at the beginning, there were no heathen then, no kings of the earth, even no earth. Infact, there was nothing, just the Father who begat Him.

This shows that this begotten of Psalm 2v7 was after His resurrection. When He rose and became the firstborn of the new creation.

vooks:


I reluctantly agree but it still don't explain what begotten is

Begotten means to give birth to, it means to born.

vooks:


This would make much sense if ONLY Jesus originated from the Father. We all did so why is he called the ONLY BEGOTTEN?

As at the time Jesus was speaking in John 3v16; He was still the only begotten of the Father. No one else was begotten of the Father or the Word yet.

But after Jesus rose from the dead, we became His brethren. His Father became our Father. Jesus is now the first begotten, no more the only begotten.