2 Timothy 2:15 Rightly divide the Word of Truth.


1 cor 14:
33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.
34 Women[f] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.[g]
36 Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.[h]
39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Looking at the above, you would see some contradictions. How will Paul say women should be silent in verse 34 and same time say in verse 39. my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

Paul could not have said about women prophesying in 1 Corinthians 11 and go on to say women should be silent in 1 Corinthians 14.

The truth is there is no contradiction. If you follow the story from the beginning, you would see that there was a central theme bothering around orderliness in worship and verse 34 and 35 seems out of place. The reason is because Paul was responding to letters they had written to him, hence verse 34 and 35 was a quote from their letters. They were pointing to their Law, how women were not allowed to speak. Paul questioned them asking if they were the only ones who had God's word or if the Word of God originated from them. In KJV verse 36

36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

This was an interaction between Paul and the Corinthians, he was responding to a letter they wrote earlier.

1 cor 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
So the book of 1 Corinthians was Paul's response to their letter to him, and he did quote from their letters directly in his writing to them, which was not properly reflected in the English translation.

The truth was that Paul was rebuking them. He took their quote in verse 34 and 35 and tore it apart. Reading the verses before and the verses after would give more insight.

The point is Paul never said that, the Corinthians said that, and Paul was responding to that.
Read the post again if you have.....

Stay blessed.

http://www.thekorro.net/2015/04/truth-did-paul-say-women-should-remain.html

yes, but not a 'grave yard' type of quietness.
They can lead prayers and sing .

xreal:
yes, but not a 'grave yard' type of quietness.
They can lead prayers and sing .

Did you read the post?

Paul wasn't the one who said it.

Dear Sibe....i like ur courage in trying to explain something thatz beyond human comprehension, too fully understand the Word of God(BIBLE) u dont need a tutor or theologian...all u need is Pure Revelation...i cnt realy see whr u stand on ur own topic per say...but here is my brief opinion.

Look what u dont know is, when Paul said A woman shud b quiet in church, what he meant waz that a woman shouldnt preach......now listen, Prophesing isnt preaching, as a matter of fact the are all part of the divine gifts(i think dey re abt 5 or 7 not exactly sure...Preacher, Dreamer, phophesy, etc). no whr in d Bible wud u see a place a woman preached, but a woman did prophecy in d bible .....so u see Paul teachings was straight dnt confuse urself. A woman according to the bible shud not stand behind an altar preaching.

Sleekydee:
Dear Sibe....i like ur courage in trying to explain something thatz beyond human comprehension, too fully understand the Word of God(BIBLE) u dont need a tutor or theologian...all u need is Pure Revelation...i cnt realy see whr u stand on ur own topic per say...but here is my brief opinion.

Look what u dont know is, when Paul said A woman shud b quiet in church, what he meant waz that a woman shouldnt preach......now listen, Prophesing isnt preaching, as a matter of fact the are all part of the divine gifts(i think dey re abt 5 or 7 not exactly sure...Preacher, Dreamer, phophesy, etc). no whr in d Bible wud u see a place a woman preached, but a woman did prophecy in d bible .....so u see Paul teachings was straight dnt confuse urself. A woman according to the bible shud not stand behind an altar preaching.

A woman according to the bible should not stand behind the altar preaching Really?? Where in your bible??
It says women should be silent, if you take it that way, they wouldnt even need to sing or even say anything in church.

The point of the post is to show something that was lost in translation from the Hebrew to English. Paul was responding to their letters they wrote to him.

so he quoted them, just as i quoted you and responded.

Sibe007:


A woman according to the bible should not stand behind the altar preaching Really?? Where in your bible??
It says women should be silent, if you take it that way, they wouldnt even need to sing or even say anything in church.

The point of the post is to show something that was lost in translation from the Hebrew to English. Paul was responding to their letters they wrote to him.

so he quoted them, just as i quoted you and responded.

In the Assembly of the saints together,1 Timothy 2:11-12," Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection...I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man , but to be in silence"

However note that they have their place among themselves in assembly of saints Titus 2:3,4," The aged women... That they may teach the young women ". Just as Moses led all Israel to sing Exodus 15:1, while Mariam led the women Exodus 15:20 You can examine the foregoing in the light of women in the early church. But when it comes to preaching outside the Church, evangelism... all are involved Acts 8:4 Hence a woman can be called as an Evangelist etc

Vs 29 and 34 both start with the word- let hence I doubt your claim that Paul was quoting the corinthians especially considering the fact of the reference quoted above.

I stand to be corrected.(from scriptures too)

cc Sibe007, Scholar8200, Sleekydee

You could be wasting your time about this with anyone lacking knowledge or information on this particular subject or anyone set in their ways.

Truth of the matter is, just blame the translators that deliberately left the ";", as it is in Greek without converting it to its counterpart version English punctuation

";" is question-mark in Greek, but instead of translating ";" to "?", which is question-mark as we know it in English, the translators feigned ignorance

Semi-colon means question-mark in Greek, but as we all know, semi-colon means something else, if or when used in English

You wonder why verses like Matthew 2:2 was translated properly along with the punctuation converted correctly but not 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

EXAMPLE:
( гдѣ єсть рождeйсѧ царь їудeйскій; - Matthew 2:2) ORIGINAL GREEK TEXT
(Where is the one who is born king of the Jews? - Matthew 2:2) ENGLISH TRANSLATION

Blame this on a hidden agenda to practice sexism and promote the oppression of women.

MuttleyLaff:
cc Sibe007, Scholar8200, Sleekydee

You could be wasting your time about this with anyone lacking knowledge or information on this particular subject or anyone set in their ways.

Truth of the matter is, just blame the translators that deliberately left the ";", as it is in Greek without converting it to its counterpart version English punctuation

";" is question-mark in Greek, but instead of translating ";" to "?", which is question-mark as we know it in English, the translators feigned ignorance

Semi-colon means question-mark in Greek, but as we all know, semi-colon means something else, if or when used in English

You wonder why verses like Matthew 2:2 was translated properly along with the punctuation converted correctly but not 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

EXAMPLE:
( гдѣ єсть рождeйсѧ царь їудeйскій; - Matthew 2:2) ORIGINAL GREEK TEXT
(Where is the one who is born king of the Jews? - Matthew 2:2) ENGLISH TRANSLATION

Blame this on a hidden agenda to practice sexism and promote the oppression of women.

But is this also applicable to the reference from Timothy? I dont think so. And if they were promoting sexism then I guess prophetesses such at Deborah should have been excused. Do we also say then that the reference to man as the head was part of this conspiracy? Of course not. Yes, Deborah was a prophetess but neither she nor any woman ever tried to do the work of the Levites or priest.

Rem brethren that no part of the scripture is of private interpretation (2Pet. 1:20)neither can you comprehend the scripture thru intelect bt by Revelation.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

So it takes the Holy Spirit to also understand the scripture. The bottomline is that the women shld reverence the men. (1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.) A woman is nt permited to teach in d church except fellow women. Bt cn prophesy under the ministration of a man. Jst lik the case of covering the head .... the man is the head of the woman. Thrs notin lik promotin sexism or wht ve u. Also contrary to one of the poster's view, Apostle Paul wasn't quoting the Corinthians bt strictly setting the church order.

MuttleyLaff:
cc Sibe007, Scholar8200, Sleekydee

You could be wasting your time about this with anyone lacking knowledge or information on this particular subject or anyone set in their ways.

Truth of the matter is, just blame the translators that deliberately left the ";", as it is in Greek without converting it to its counterpart version English punctuation

";" is question-mark in Greek, but instead of translating ";" to "?", which is question-mark as we know it in English, the translators feigned ignorance

Semi-colon means question-mark in Greek, but as we all know, semi-colon means something else, if or when used in English

You wonder why verses like Matthew 2:2 was translated properly along with the punctuation converted correctly but not 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

EXAMPLE:
( гдѣ єсть рождeйсѧ царь їудeйскій; - Matthew 2:2) ORIGINAL GREEK TEXT
(Where is the one who is born king of the Jews? - Matthew 2:2) ENGLISH TRANSLATION

Blame this on a hidden agenda to practice sexism and promote the oppression of women.

you just blew my mind with this post. can you throw more light on this pls

Sibe007:
2 Timothy 2:15 Rightly divide the Word of Truth.


1 cor 14:
33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.
34 Women[f] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.[g]
36 Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.[h]
39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Looking at the above, you would see some contradictions. How will Paul say women should be silent in verse 34 and same time say in verse 39. my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

Paul could not have said about women prophesying in 1 Corinthians 11 and go on to say women should be silent in 1 Corinthians 14.

The truth is there is no contradiction. If you follow the story from the beginning, you would see that there was a central theme bothering around orderliness in worship and verse 34 and 35 seems out of place. The reason is because Paul was responding to letters they had written to him, hence verse 34 and 35 was a quote from their letters. They were pointing to their Law, how women were not allowed to speak. Paul questioned them asking if they were the only ones who had God's word or if the Word of God originated from them. In KJV verse 36

36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

This was an interaction between Paul and the Corinthians, he was responding to a letter they wrote earlier.

1 cor 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
So the book of 1 Corinthians was Paul's response to their letter to him, and he did quote from their letters directly in his writing to them, which was not properly reflected in the English translation.

The truth was that Paul was rebuking them. He took their quote in verse 34 and 35 and tore it apart. Reading the verses before and the verses after would give more insight.

The point is Paul never said that, the Corinthians said that, and Paul was responding to that.
Read the post again if you have.....

Stay blessed.

http://www.thekorro.net/2015/04/truth-did-paul-say-women-should-remain.html

This is a wrong division of the Word of Truth and a s private as a private interpretation gets.
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.

1Corinthians 14 passage is talking about preaching/teaching men and this is corroborated in another book 1Timothy.

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Now you may bring up fallacies and irrelevant or diverting questions but these two passages are clear and unmistakable until when twisted like you just did.

Scholar8200:
But is this also applicable to the reference from Timothy?

Affirmative, yes it is also applicable to the reference from Timothy
As a matter of fact, Paul was repeating questions with answers, in both 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2:11-12

Scholar8200:
I dont think so.

You better start thinking so now
and imbibe Romans 12:2, to be transformed by the renewing of your mind

Scholar8200:
And if they were promoting sexism
then I guess prophetesses such at Deborah should have been excused.

We are now living in a rapidly changing what used to be an exclusive man's world
but thank you God, this man's world, wouldn't be nothing, it'll be nothing without a woman
so in essence, they cant and shouldnt have in the first place, nursed the idea of promoting sexism
or reinforce the status quo underhandedly, the manner this is or was done.

Scholar8200:
Do we also say then that the reference to man as the head was part of this conspiracy? Of course not.

Head of what? Head of who? Head to whom?
I hope your are not taking "reference to man as the head" as subjugation

Scholar8200:
Yes, Deborah was a prophetess but neither she nor any woman ever tried to do the work of the Levites or priest.

What are you trying to say here
mind you Acts 18:24-26 is very instructive.

elveco:
Rem brethren that no part of the scripture is of private interpretation (2Pet. 1:20) neither can you comprehend the scripture thru intelect bt by Revelation.

Make no mistake, we comprehend the scripture through Revelation and the God-given intellect

elveco:
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

So it takes the Holy Spirit to also understand the scripture. The bottomline is that the women shld reverence the men. (
1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
2:13 For Adam was first formed,
then Eve. 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.)
A woman is nt permited to teach in d church except fellow women. Bt cn prophesy under the ministration of a man.
Jst lik the case of covering the head .... the man is the head of the woman.

I wonder what your definition of church is and understanding of what church is too.
Anyway Acts 18:24-26 is very instructive
and should help us not flogging a dead horse

elveco:
Thrs notin lik promotin sexism or wht ve u.
Also contrary to one of the poster's view, Apostle Paul wasn't quoting the Corinthians bt strictly setting the church order.

So you say that: "Thrs notin lik promotin sexism or wht ve u"
well read my lips:
I am categorically saying according to the punctuations in both 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2:11-12 original Greek texts, Paul was quoting the Corinthians et al with rhetorical questions to make a point and giving answers

You see, with all due respect, your post or version of events, doesn't fit the facts,
so I'll strongly adjure you to get down, off your high horse
and go over the post immediately above to read with an aim so we all learn and be liberated by it.

Mprex:
you just blew my mind with this post.

Ma'am, knowing is half the battle
In fact knowledge is power and information is liberating

Mprex:
can you throw more light on this pls

I can try
but how much more are you after
and what exactly more do you want to know ma'am?

Image123:
This is a wrong division of the Word of Truth and as private as a private interpretation gets.
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.

1 Corinthians 14 passage is talking about preaching/teaching men and this is corroborated in another book 1 Timothy.

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Now you may bring up fallacies and irrelevant or diverting questions but these two passages are clear and unmistakable until when twisted like you just did.

cc Sibe007, Scholar8200, Sleekydee, elveco, Mprex

Are you for or against what Sibe007 posted?
How is it a wrong division of the Word of Truth and as private as a private interpretation gets?
What exactly has Sibe007 "twisted"?
How or where exactly has Sibe007 "twisted"?

MuttleyLaff:

Affirmative, yes it is also applicable to the reference from Timothy
As a matter of fact, Paul was repeating questions with answers, in both 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2:11-12

Kindly prove that with scriptures specifically spelling out where reference was made to a 'Letter from Timothy'.

You better start thinking so now
and imbibe Romans 12:2, to be transformed by the renewing of your mind We are now living in a rapidly changing what used to be an exclusive man's world
but thank you God, this man's world, wouldn't be nothing, it'll be nothing without a woman

Renewing the mind is not the same as changing the Word! I'm yet to see where it is implied or expressed in scripture that it's a man's world and that the women are not as important!

Head of what? Head of who? Head to whom?
I hope your are not taking "reference to man as the head" as subjugation

Hasty conclusion that! Note that the Bible reference to man as the head might have been abused by many as an excuse to oppress women, flatter their ego etc But the real stance as stated in Ephesians 5:22-33. Connotes sacrifice by the head for the good of the body. Besides, the case of Adam and Eve and God's demand from the man shows that in the first family as well as all, the man stands answerable to God for all that happens, something similar was said of Abraham Genesis 18:19. Else why would God confront Eli on the licentiousness of his sons?

Likewise man(used generically to mean both male and female) was created to subdue( or subjugate) the earth, (not the women or each other) and the cattle and every creeping thing. The submission of women prescribed in Ephesians 5:22,24 is something of the will, a choice to be made by the woman, not forced or enforced by the man hence the allusion to Christ and the Church as the standard! At present Christ never forces us to submit to His Lordship!

So, if some are carnally misinterpreting the reference to the man as head as a call to be worshipped by the women, then it wont be fair to accuse the translators for the blindness of such people. If they were promoting sexism like you said, why would they record the issue of the daughters of Zelophehad in Numbers 27 and the fairness and openness with which Moses handled the issues they raised as regards inheritance? And why did they clearly state that the Ethiopian eunuch, a man, was the subject/subordinate of Candace, a woman, in Acts 8:27?(in an official setting) and Although Miriam became leprous for 7 days when she tried to claim equality with Moses,Uzziah the king became leprous for the rest of his life when he did a similar thing with the priests, what then?
How about all the laws in the Pentateuch meant to protect women(available on request) both the married and unmarried?

These views may not be popular but thank God they are scriptural!

I like the reference to Acts 18:24-26, it further accentuates my penultimate post. A sexist translator will not mention Priscilla, yet her name is mentioned almost if not all times her husband's name was mentioned! Also note that the context of the couple's activity was in their home, not the assembly of believers.

Sibe007:
2 Timothy 2:15 Rightly divide the Word of Truth.


1 cor 14:
33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.
34 Women[f] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.[g]
36 Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.[h]
39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Looking at the above, you would see some contradictions. How will Paul say women should be silent in verse 34 and same time say in verse 39. my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

Paul could not have said about women prophesying in 1 Corinthians 11 and go on to say women should be silent in 1 Corinthians 14.

The truth is there is no contradiction. If you follow the story from the beginning, you would see that there was a central theme bothering around orderliness in worship and verse 34 and 35 seems out of place. The reason is because Paul was responding to letters they had written to him, hence verse 34 and 35 was a quote from their letters. They were pointing to their Law, how women were not allowed to speak. Paul questioned them asking if they were the only ones who had God's word or if the Word of God originated from them. In KJV verse 36

36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

This was an interaction between Paul and the Corinthians, he was responding to a letter they wrote earlier.

1 cor 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
So the book of 1 Corinthians was Paul's response to their letter to him, and he did quote from their letters directly in his writing to them, which was not properly reflected in the English translation.

The truth was that Paul was rebuking them. He took their quote in verse 34 and 35 and tore it apart. Reading the verses before and the verses after would give more insight.

The point is Paul never said that, the Corinthians said that, and Paul was responding to that.
Read the post again if you have.....

Stay blessed.

http://www.thekorro.net/2015/04/truth-did-paul-say-women-should-remain.html

the problem with your question is that, you misunderstand the context and called it contradiction.

Verse 34 Women[f] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

If we are to go with your way of thinking, then woman will not be able to sing or pray in the church which law say woman are not to speak in the church?if you continue the reading you will get the picture of what Paul is saying in verse 34. The context of this chapter is talking about "PROPHECY AND TOUNG" what Paul is indicating is that women can have this gift and when they do, they should not assume authority over the MEN.

Here what verse 39 and 40 say;
39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid
speaking in tongues. 40 But everything
should be done in a fitting and orderly
way.

This verses indicate that both men and WOMEN can have the gift but they can used it ORDERLY.

PLEASE BRETHREN FOLLOW THIS LINK AND PATIENTLY GO THROUGH THE ARTICLE, I BELIEVE IT WILL BE HELPFUL. THANKS:
http://www.ntrf.org/articles/article_detail.php?PRKey=16

malvisguy212:
the problem with your question is that, you misunderstand the context and called it contradiction.





Verse 34 Women[f] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

If we are to go with your way of thinking, then woman will not be able to sing or pray in the church which law say woman are not to speak in the church?if you continue the reading you will get the picture of what Paul is saying in verse 34. The context of this chapter is talking about "PROPHECY AND TOUNG" what Paul is indicating is that women can have this gift and when they do, they should not assume authority over the MEN.

Here what verse 39 and 40 say;
39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid
speaking in tongues. 40 But everything
should be done in a fitting and orderly
way.

This verses indicate that both men and WOMEN can have the gift but they can used it ORDERLY.

Scholar8200, before I submit my responses to your two last posts, lets be clear where and how you stand on this subjerct matter
What is your stance, put your neck on the line.
Are you saying Paul said women should remain quiet in church?
and like I earlier desired to know about elveco,
I wonder too, what your definition of church is
and curious to know your understanding of what church is or what church is about.

elveco:
PLEASE BRETHREN FOLLOW THIS LINK AND PATIENTLY GO THROUGH THE ARTICLE, I BELIEVE IT WILL BE HELPFUL. THANKS:
http://www.ntrf.org/articles/article_detail.php?PRKey=16

I read the link but not all, there are many points the writer of the blog missed,see, religion is like a CULTURE,religion cannot provide all the truth for you.Paul is a very wise teacher.if you examine history, women were culturally not educated. It was
considered the domain of men. Even in
our Western societies, 100 years ago the
role of women was to stay at home, raise the family and support the husband who worked. Things have drastically changed today.
Now Paul was thoroughly saturated with
the culture of his day. He could not be.
Yet, he seems quite aware of it when he
talks in the Corinthians and Timothy passage that you
quoted, stating this as his personal
beliefs and providing his own
justification.

elveco:
PLEASE BRETHREN FOLLOW THIS LINK AND PATIENTLY GO THROUGH THE ARTICLE,
I BELIEVE IT WILL BE HELPFUL. THANKS:
http://www.ntrf.org/articles/article_detail.php?PRKey=16

I've just read the link too.
but I'll be honest, I didnt want to or wasnt going to read the link until malvisguy212 came back saying he's read it
Nothing personal, just that, I dont hastily click on web links I cant vouch for
Anyway, it was a torturous read, it literally was ripping my heart out.
I read all and found the entire content in the link, from beginning to end, dismaying and disconcerting

malvisguy212:
I read the link but not all, there are many points the writer of the blog missed, see, religion is like a CULTURE, religion cannot provide all the truth for you.

Believers dont practice religion

malvisguy212:
Paul is a very wise teacher. if you examine history, women were culturally not educated.

I agree Paul is a wise teacher but what is the point of the bolded statement

malvisguy212:
It was considered the domain of men.
Even in our Western societies, 100 years ago the role of women was to stay at home, raise the family and support the husband who worked. Things have drastically changed today.
Now Paul was thoroughly saturated with the culture of his day. He could not be.
Yet, he seems quite aware of it when he talks in the Corinthians and Timothy passage that you quoted, stating this as his personal beliefs and providing his own justification.

Reading the web link and this post above further accentuates my post to Scholar8200
about us are now living in a rapidly changing what-used-to-be an exclusive man's world
but thank you God, this man's world, wouldn't be nothing, it'll be nothing without a woman

MuttleyLaff:

Reading the web link and this post above further accentuates my post to Scholar8200
about us are now living in a rapidly changing what-used-to-be an exclusive man's world
but thank you God, this man's world, wouldn't be nothing, it'll be nothing without a woman

It was never man's world right from the beginning! That belief belongs to the secular society.

1 Corinthians 11:11,12,"Nevertheless, neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman..." Read through the law and see for yourself. All these would have been edited if there indeed existed a desire to subjugate the women. Come to think of it, GOD Himself does not subjugate man or angels, He will rather have us submit willingly though decisions have consequences.

By the way, neo-subjugation is when men see women as sex objects to be conquered and defiled no more, no less- this also has no place among believers.

The Inspired writings of Paul ( not opinions!) has and still has nothing to do with literacy etc 1 Corinthians 14:40 says to,"let all things be done decently and in order.

The Church is the body of Christ. 1Cor. 1:2, Rom. 12-5-8

MuttleyLaff:
Scholar8200, before I submit my responses to your two last posts, lets be clear where and how you stand on this subjerct matter
What is your stance, put your neck on the line.
Are you saying Paul said women should remain quiet in church?
and like I earlier desired to know about elveco,
I wonder too, what your definition of church is
and curious to know your understanding of what church is or what church is about.

MuttleyLaff:
I've just read the link too.
but I'll be honest, I didnt want to or wasnt going to read the link until malvisguy212 came back saying he's read it
Nothing personal, just that, I dont hastily click on web links I cant vouch for
Anyway, it was a torturous read, it literally was ripping my heart out.
I read all and found the entire content in the link, from beginning to end, dismaying and disconcerting


Believers dont practice religion


I agree Paul is a wise teacher but what is the point of the bolded statement


Reading the web link and this post above further accentuates my post to Scholar8200
about us are now living in a rapidly changing what-used-to-be an exclusive man's world
but thank you God, this man's world, wouldn't be nothing, it'll be nothing without a woman

yes, believers don't practice religion but believer should be tolerance in other people culture,that was what Paul did, Paul was aware of there culture about women and he respect it. But in Corinthians the context was about the prophecy and toung. Women can have this gift and when they do, they should not assume authority over the men. That was the message in Corinthians.

I haven't read your explanation, I will do later.

malvisguy212:
yes, believers don't practice religion but believer should be tolerance in other people culture

Some believers if not most actually practice religion
Anyway, it speaks volumes that God is longsuffering in silence, suffering and tolerating other other peoples culture or religion

malvisguy212:
that was what Paul did

What is it Paul did and how did he do what he did?

malvisguy212:
Paul was aware of there culture about women and he respect it.
But in Corinthians the context was about the prophecy and toung.
Women can have this gift and when they do, they should not assume authority over the men. That was the message in Corinthians.

Paul was aware some were trying to maintain the status quo
and were using the Talmud etc as back up for justifying their demands

Paul basically read them the riot act after that with both 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2:11-12

malvisguy212:
I haven't read your explanation, I will do later.

In your own time, not that I made that much of an explanation yet

elveco:
The Church is the body of Christ. 1Cor. 1:2, Rom. 12-5-8

What is this? Are you having a laugh at my expense?

What's the meaning of this your "The Church is the body of Christ. 1 Cor. 1:2, Rom. 12-5-8"?
Are you kidding me? Is this meant to be a one-liner?
Is that how you explain your understanding or give a definition to a kafir?

Scholar8200, add ] immediately after 1, in [quote author=MuttleyLaff post=33284431, so you can quote me properly

I have responses to all your posts prepped up here, I'll upload them as soon as you have inserted that missing closing bracket sign

MuttleyLaff:
Scholar8200, before I submit my responses to your two last posts, lets be clear where and how you stand on this subjerct matter
What is your stance, put your neck on the line.
Are you saying Paul said women should remain quiet in church?
and like I earlier desired to know about elveco,
I wonder too, what your definition of church is
and curious to know your understanding of what church is or what church is about.

My stance is in alignment with 1 Timothy 2:11,12,13,"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, the Eve."

The last verse (13)clearly refutes the claim that Paul wrote this or any other like verse because the women were not educated!!! How many men were?! It rather shows the source/cause of this authority. We can liken this to the first born in a family who retains authority and responsibility by virtue of being born earlier than other kids ; though he/she may have siblings who are more brilliant, wealthy etc yet, the authority and responsibility of being the first born remains uncontested.

If you look at the order of worship in the home and tabernacle/gathering of believers, this has always been the pattern. Job who lived before the law stood as the spiritual head and priest for his family ditto Abraham. Under the law, only men were to be high priest, priest and levites but note that this was within the tabernacle. Outside the tabernacle, Deborah judged Israel and even summoned a man, Barak, to go to battle and the latter, recognising her as a prophetess, requested her presence with him on the battlefield! and the victory was won by a woman!(no sexist will include this). There was also Huldah who was God's mouthpiece at her time and she delivered a very strong message in response to the king's request who recognised the anointing she had! In the early church, the first set of deacons were men (ACts 6)! Or do we accuse Christ for choosing 12 men as apostles? Or do we accuse the writers of the synoptic gospels as 'sexist' when Luke clearly stated that women eg Susanna, Joanna, Mary and many others, played a vital role as economic powerhouse for Christ and His disciples(Luke 8:2 -3)?

It's not a case of one being inferior or superior to the other, but simply of order!

The Church in the context of this discussion refers to the gathering of believers in Christ under a leader/overseer see Acts 20:28 and 1Peter 5:1-3. Note that the reference in Acts 18:24-26 was not the church in the house of the said couple, it was a sharing session between the couple and Apollos. Also see the usage of the word - Church- by Christ in Revelations 2 & 3 vis a vis the two references I quoted.

^^^
OK
Scholar8200, correct https://www.nairaland.com/2281187/truth-did-paul-say-women#33285293 as I've suggested and we will move on
Forget sexism, forget whether women were educated or not
let's for now just stick to whether you are saying Paul said women should remain quiet in church?
As I said, I have replies done up already to all your posts

MuttleyLaff:
Scholar8200, add ] immediately after 1, in [quote author=MuttleyLaff post=33284431, so you can quote me properly

I have responses to all your posts prepped up here, I'll upload them as soon as you have inserted that missing closing bracket sign

Thanks for that. Look forward to your responses, do keep them scriptural.