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Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by RikoduoSennin(m): 4:07pm On May 23, 2015 |
1 John 2:19 "They WENT OUT FROM US, but they WERE NOT OF US, for if they had been for us they would have CONTINUED WITH US; BUT THEY WENT OUT THAT IT MIGHT BE PLAIN THAT THEY ALL ARE NOT OF US" Hebrew 6:4-6 " For it is IMPOSSIBLE to RESTORE AGAIN to repentance those who have ONCE BEEN ENLIGHTENED, who have tasted the heavenly gift and have become partakers of the Holy spirit and have tasted THE GOODNESS OF THE WORD OF GOD and the power of the age to come, IF THEY THEN COMMIT 'APOSTASY' since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt" -RSV What is God's decision concerning Apostasy both in the time of the Law commandment and during the Early christian Era. 2 Likes |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by BIBLESPEAKS(m): 4:25pm On May 23, 2015 |
RikoduoSennin: Disfellowshipping/Expulsion IS BASED ON THE PRINCIPLES FOUND IN THE SCRIPTURES. In order to maintain God's favor and to be used by Him and to represent Him, the congregation must remain clean. Otherwise, God would expel or cut off the entire congregation. (Re 2:5; 1Co 5:5, 6.) Examples and precedents have been set by the apostle Paul when he ordered the expulsion of an incestuous fornicator who had taken his father's wife. (1 Cor. 5:5, 11, 13) He also exercised disfellowshipping authority against Hymenaeus and Alexander. (1 Tim. 1:19, 20) The Christian congregation is ADMONISHED BY SCRIPTURE to stop socializing with those who are disorderly and not walking correctly but who are not deemed deserving of complete expulsion. Paul wrote: "Stop associating with him, that he may be ashamed. And yet do not be considering him an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother." (2 Thess. 3:6, 11, 13-15). The Bible mentions some of the offenses that could merit disfellowshipping from the Christian congregation: fornication, adultery, homosexuality, greed, extortion, thievery, lying, drunkenness, reviling, spiritism, murder, idiolatry, apostasy, and the causing of divisions in the congregation. (1Cor. 5:9-13; 6:9,10; Tit. 3:10,11; Rev. 21: As a protection to the congregation, preventing it from becoming harsh and unforgiving, the principle enunciated in the law applies that that two or three witnesses must establish evidence against the accused one; and also for those who have been expelled, they may be received back into the congregation if they demonstrate sincere repentance. (2 Co 2:5-8; (1 Tim. 5:19) 3 Likes |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by Nobody: 7:33pm On Jun 03, 2015 |
MizMyColi:My darling, you represent the humanity I seek in this world. Being brief, I'd say I've observed how religious passions result in followers missing the point entirely. They end up devoid of humanity because they passionately follow what another man said and labelled as God. Such chaos. There are good people to be found behind many faces, but if one cannot believe in humanity (a word representing the essential qualities of being a good human) then what hope is there for God. Any human who condemns you is playing God, they should worry for themselves. There is peace with you sister. Sorry for the very late reply, life |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by jayriginal: 12:48pm On Jun 19, 2015 |
Flytefalls: Hi there. I forgot my earlier promise. Here is a link to Captives of Conscience by Don Cameron. Hope you enjoy it. http://www.solidfiles.com/d/10603ab96e/ 1 Like |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by Nobody: 3:12pm On Jun 19, 2015 |
Flytefalls: Oh, she now calls Him God, not Jehovah. Chai, when will people grow up? Ur mum never made the truth her own. So sad! This thing that the witnesses keep singing like a music. As such, I don't consider such people as true witnesses. Sorry to say that, she was not. Even now, I don't weigh people just cos dey come into the kingdom hall,but I weigh u if u are convinced that what u have is the truth, not just because it is taught by the witnesses. That has been the slogan of the Gov Body for a long time now. Now that ur mom started calling him God, not Jehovah. Tell me, scripturally,why God is the name of God? U can't stop believing something because u ve found another belief. There should be a scriptural reason, if not, it is unreasonable. Oya, tell me madam. Convince me with the bible. If u are witness u don't just believe, u are given good biblical reasons to do so. If we are to vote ur mom correct, use ur bible and tell us. 2 Likes |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by Nobody: 4:09pm On Jun 19, 2015 |
No witness, who is a true well-groomed witness, will enter churches of xtendom. He may form a church of his own or stay without a church. Unless if that person just want to deceive himself. Even if, I who left the church were to leave JWs, I can't go to any church available today, unless the church will appear in the future(and I doubt). Why? Cos if the witnesses are scoring 80% in terms of the bible, churches are still scoring 20%. And there 20% will forever stay stagnant or in estreme cases crawl, because there doctrines hardly change. They will keep choping falsehood without changing intil they die with it. From the research i ve done on this issue, that is very dangerous position. However, the witnesses will keep improving there score as they humbly make changes. That is an invaluable asset. So how can a right thinking person enter another church when he has been groomed to accept when there is a proof from the scriptures that a teaching is true? Which pastor will have time to prove a doctrine to u? I mean, if I am to enter another church, they will start by proving to me that whatever they teach there is true. And having got a reason for my belief as a witness u must be capable to disprove those my points. Who is ready to do that? Because I won't just say that what JWs teach is wrong just becos I left the religion. I didn't do so when i left the church. Though the truth is, in the church we largely swallow whatever u are taught than having a good biblical reason for it. I still observe that today, see a churchgoer now, and ask him for proof of what he believes, he will be there stammering. Smh. Because witnesses have sound biblical reason for there faith, and they ever make research and discover more reasons for there belief. And they encourage there members to diligently study and convince themselves of a teaching, u can hardly expect them to swallow whatever u tell them. U must be ready to give reason for ur point. Why the witnesses are hard to be 'won' in a discussion, is because they sincerely and thoroughly search for the truth. And each of there members are encouraged not to be gullible, but to make that truth there OWN. Some say day, and I once said so too, that witnesses are taught to be argumentators/debators. No, the secret is that, each and everyone of them are taught to be convince of a position. Of course when u are convinced, u won't immediately accept what others say unless they bring up nice points contradicting yours. But if what u believe is the truth based on a thorough study, the other person will always get a better answer to all his query, and be moved to agree if he is sincere. If u people in the church keep looking for a way to twist the bible, and get victory, u won't succeed. Some also get it wrong because they form there interpretation mostly on translationbof the bible. They don't have other background info. Just like someone above talking about Jesus being worshipped. By the time a witness diacuss that with u, u 'll see why ur position is shortsighted. milkymesh: 2 Likes |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by lastmessenger: 6:02pm On Jun 19, 2015 |
Please i want you to send me the book "crisis of conscience".my email is nlewedimorji@gmail.com.thanks a lot. JuanDeDios: |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by lastmessenger: 6:45pm On Jun 19, 2015 |
Please do send me the book"captive of a concept".here is email nlewedimorji@gmail.com jayriginal: |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by jayriginal: 6:48pm On Jun 19, 2015 |
lastmessenger: I've posted a link for download just a few posts up. 1 Like |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by lastmessenger: 6:54pm On Jun 19, 2015 |
I feel blessed reading this. Anas09: |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by jayriginal: 2:49pm On Jun 20, 2015 |
JMAN05 So continually changing your beliefs is a sign that you are doing the right thing? To me it sounds like a sign of uncertainty about past, present and future beliefs. How that passes as truth is beyond me. Truth doesn't change. 1 Like 2 Shares |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by jayriginal: 2:50pm On Jun 20, 2015 |
Hello Flytefalls Did you see the link I posted to Captives of a Concept? |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by Nobody: 4:24am On Jun 22, 2015 |
jayriginal: If there is no good basis for those changes, then u have a reason to be uncertain. Those changes are not planned, it comes as a result of a thorough study of the scriptures. That a teaching is fallible does not mean that it is perforce wrong. Truth does not change, but it comes progressively, and as we know the light gets brighter, we keep moving with an open mind, not close-minded, to wherever the spirit leads us. Prov 4;18 God's word indicates that the true knowledge will be abundant when people search for it. Dan 12:4. What if those who do the reading are close-minded? That is a big problem. Now, that many choose not to change their church teaching does not mean those teachings are true. In fact, some among them will see that the doctrine is wrong, but they won't change cos they claim infallibility or that they fear loosing face. To change is not easy, it requires humility. Great one at that. There must be changes, and even Paul stated it, 1cor. 13:9-10. That some refuse to change heresies, which has long been proven wrong, is a dangerous sign. Jehovah is interested in those who love truth, not a teaching, and who will be humble to change if they observe they are wrong. It is not whether u ve succeeded in knowing it all, but as u discover, do u make changes and live by what u discover? If u have that quality that shows just love the truth, u are really a teachable fellow. When God finally shows u the right understanding, u ve displayed beyond doubt that u are ready to accept. That's the beauty of it. For example, after Moses gave the law to the Jews, they gradually began formulating a wrong interpretation from it, and in the future even produce the Talmud. The Jews even had sect among themselves. Jehovah was still managing the system. He even chose some who were in that religion. But what made those He chose different? They were humble to make changes, they love the truth not a teaching. This was evident when Jesus came. He showed them how wrong they were. Notice that some of the bad doctrine has been there for long, but now God wanted to correct it thru His son. The question now is: will they be humble to change? Are u getting the point? The religious system refuse to change cos there doctrine is like what we see today - an infallible tradition. It has no room for changes. Had it been that the system is humble change when there position is wrong, do u think they would have been rejected? I hope u are getting the point? But the common people agreed to follow Jesus and respond to an increasing light that Jesus was abt to unfold. My understanding is that Jehovah needs those who have love for the truth, who are open minded, not those who are not ready to accept they are wrong. Dan 12;4 and 1cor 13 already show that there will be changes. Even Jesus explained some matters in different way as it was previously understood. And were david, moses and solomon to come out in the first cenrury AD, what they will observe as the way God was then worshiped would differ somewhat from what they previously knew. So there has always been changes. If David walked with God back then, it is wise to believe he would not be close minded were he to observe the new directions that came on board in the first century. There are many examples to use as prove of these. The fact is that God can't use those who stick to those heresies that flood xtendom. And they 'll still swallow it even if they see evidence to change. 3 Likes |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by Nobody: 5:03am On Jun 22, 2015 |
jayriginal: God himself inspired this words recorded at 1cor 5:11. Do u sir feel that this direction is wrong? I hate it when people allow there emotions to becloud there judgment in scriptural matters. If u agree to Gods standard, u should be ready to stick to it even if it hits u bad. Can u scripturally prove that disfellowship is wrong? Our personal feeling towards some issues is understandable. If am shunned by some who I love, I will feel bad, its natural. However, does it make is scripturally wrong? Nope! We must take out our view and heed prov 3:5-6. It is when u make input in light of the bible, that i consider it valid. Not picking what u accept in the bible and leaving d rest that does not agree with our mind. 1john 5:3 1 Like |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by Nobody: 5:21am On Jun 22, 2015 |
@Anas09 It is true that our personal rekationship with God is uppermost. But God operates thruan organise religious system, He does not deal with us independent of an organised religion. We can't stay and say let's serve God on our own, forget eeligion or "church". Jesus command at matt 28:19,20 is to make disciples of people who will eventually be independent of the religious system. In short that command will hold no water were we to be independent of a religion. Though Judaism was corrupt, Jesus didn't stay in his house and conduct his own private worship, nor did he instruct his disciples to go and forget an organise system or that they should forget religion. God works thru an organise religious body that worship together. Heb 10:24-25 Any spirit that inspires anything less should be shunned. 1 Like |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by Nobody: 4:28pm On Jun 23, 2015 |
jayriginal:Omg, i've been far far away from this site so sorry >.< Got it! Thank you thank you thank you!!! I have finished the Crisis book. The criticisms were thorough and I believe he earnestly tried to make them fair. This past month has been a bit of a paradise nightmare as far as this JW family issue has been, you know when things left unsaid hog all the space in the room, that sort of thing. But at least we now occupy the same spaces. It's so sad religion has brought us here. Pathetic really. 1 Like |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by Nobody: 4:47pm On Jun 23, 2015 |
JMAN05:I tire of people like you very easily. Tell me, by whose account are you fully grown? Your immature design for the unfortunate green box above forbids any formation of a sensible response from me to your offering. I'm sure you're grown enough to not engage with me any longer as you now understand that to be a waste of your time. Saiyonara |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by Nobody: 7:39am On Jun 24, 2015 |
Flytefalls: Just lol. Thought u were sure. 1 Like |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by BIBLESPEAKS(m): 8:47am On Jun 24, 2015 |
jayriginal: You're correct. Truth doesn't and cannot change cos it is firmly established. What really changes is our understanding of truth. 2 Likes |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by BIBLESPEAKS(m): 9:07am On Jun 24, 2015 |
jayriginal: Good thing you were modest enough to say its ur opinion. Some folks here pass their opinions as what must be. However, in this issue personal opinions dnt count. The Bible's view is what matters. And the Bible says in this time (last days) peoples understanding of truth will increase - Dan 12:4. And quite naturally this means making adjustments. 1 Like |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by jayriginal: 10:17am On Jun 24, 2015 |
Flytefalls: You're welcome. |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by paulGrundy(m): 2:28pm On Jun 24, 2015 |
BIBLESPEAKS: is my eyes decieving me? This coming from BERNIMORE!! I'll go for thanksgiving. That means my hardwork has paid of. As a celebration of this breakthrough, I'll open 4 watchtower threads What really changes is our understanding of truth. Good am glad you now know that. But then anyone that has a changing understanding of the truth has no right to claim monopoly of the truth and demand unquestionable loyalty to doctrine. |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by lastmessenger: 10:46pm On Jun 24, 2015 |
Exactly my thought.how can you command absolute obedience for a said understanding from the bible when you are not sure the understanding is correct?how can a religion that claim to be the only true religion operate on uncertainty?jw people are just full of arguement and nothing more. paulGrundy: 1 Like |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by mobi5592: 1:13am On Jun 25, 2015 |
Well, this might be coming so late, but i trust that somehow, you will stil stumble upon this comment and your life will never be the same. If you're a JW or struggling to grasp a what the bible really teaches regarding christianity and religion, i welcome you to read the most compeling work on the topic CARM.ORG yes brethren its CARM.ORG that website changed my life. for so many years i questioned the deity of christ. as an orthodose christian, I just know jesus is the begotten son of God. but when I grew older, it was time to question what I believed. I prayed and dug deeper into it. As God could want it, I stumbled upon CARM.ORG. it has the answers to all your question. Be it jehovah witness, catholicism, Atheism, Universalism, etc. Just check it and be bless. |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by johnw74: 3:19am On Jun 25, 2015 |
Have a look at this: https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-their-many-false-prophecies Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah, if the thing does not follow nor come to pass, that is the thing which Jehovah has not spoken.... If someone makes a false prophecy and they have claimed to be a prophet of God, then they are false prophets and are not to be listened to. Do the Witnesses claim to be the prophet of God? Yes, they do. |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by Nobody: 6:53am On Jun 25, 2015 |
Flytefalls:the effort you used in typing the above would have been enough to refute the guy's stand. Is it right for her to stop calling God jehovah cos she got ex-communicated by the JW? If your anwer is yes, then have put to thought the fact that she could be praying to sango, amdioha, isis, horus or even baphomet the devil himself, cos they also refer to themselves as gods? Saying Jehovah, which is God's name, shows which God you are refering to. AnSwer the guy's questions. 2 Likes |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by honeychild(f): 8:48am On Jun 25, 2015 |
Flytefalls: Really? Are you sure you understand the language the meeting was conducted in? From your write up I know you speak and understand perfect English. So I am wondering if the meeting was conducted in a strange language. 2 Likes |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by Nobody: 11:11am On Jun 25, 2015 |
honeychild:er, okay. 1 Like |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by Nobody: 11:34am On Jun 25, 2015 |
eighTHREAD:Thank you for coming to my thread and reaffirming the issue I have with religious pedants. Scroll through all my past posts on this thread and highlight to me where I said I, or my mother, said that calling Jehovah by His name was wrong, or even undesirable. When she reads her preferred version of the Bible, He is referred to as God, not Jehovah. He is even referred to as both in the NWT. She has not rejected anything. Understandably, calling Him by his first name is fundamental to the JW institution, so I expect you people to get more than a little cranky when others have a differing opinion on this. However, I don't have to answer to anyone and am less likely to when told to. 1 Like |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by Nobody: 11:38am On Jun 25, 2015 |
johnw74:At least they certainly have in the past, so let them continue calling themselves the truth while the rest of the world shrugs and moves on. |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by Nobody: 11:53am On Jun 25, 2015 |
Flytefalls:do you know the amount of gods we have around? Do you know that God is not a name but a title? That's why many false prophets go scot-free in scamming people using the title to mask their god baphomet/satan. Do you know that majority of the various bible versions where influenced by the catholic church who substituted his name Jehovah with a title God? @bold Those preferred versions of the bible are just versions as you called them and not the original septuagint. The original was written in hebrew and greek; the old testament in hebrew while the new testament in greek. In those books, Jehovah is mostly used in places where you find God in the versions of today. So, you see how wrong they are? Using the name Jehovah doesn't make one a JW, it only clarify which God you are talking about. The versions of today prefer to use capital letter G in spelling God just to different Him from the other gods. Why not use His name Jehovah instead? 1 Like |
Re: Former Jehovah's Witnesses On NL? by Nobody: 12:11pm On Jun 25, 2015 |
eighTHREAD:Honestly, why can't you JW's go a day without bad mouthing other religions. It's one of the most unappealling things about the JW's, always sh:ttin on other religions to bolster their own argument. Like snakes, they only have bad words for external people that other churches would actually pray for. No, I don't see how uniquely right the NWT is either. It's just another version. JW's themselves still refer to Him as God, it's not frowned upon, especially in the ministry to gain common ground with people. I will ask them to clarify which God they meant next time. Even Catholics use Jehovahs name in prayer, so I will even ask them if they are JW's in disguise. Excuse my sarcasm if you will, I'm extremely bored with unilateral thinkers. But I understand 'true' faith to be unshakable, so good for you. |
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