Scholar8200:


Let me ask, who was responsible for the use (or misuse) of the dominion given to Adam?

Of course it was Adam but was the mauling of the 42 thugs against the Law of God?

OLAADEGBU:


Of course it was Adam but was the mauling of the 42 thugs against the Law of God?

Now who was responsible for the use of authority given to Elisha? (feel free to answer with a word or paragraph;not trying to corner you!)

Scholar8200:
He did not maul them; he overwhelmed them. Note the violence displayed by the two examples given. The stones and natural strength of animals exceed that of man how much more when preternatural influences are involved.

And you were there watching all these... How wicked.

johnydon22:


Telling someone that is clearly dumb that he is dumb isn't a crime. . .

Try telling your lecturer, police officer, a judge or even a friend that they are dumb and see whether it's a crime or not. The fact that you don't agree on a point is not an excuse for you to be verbally abusive you can learn how to agree to disagree that's the educated way of dealing with issues.

johnydon22:


Who can't discuss a fable without believing in the fable is just like saying you cant discuss spiderman without believing he is real. . Thats exactly why i find you to be dumb.

This is why atheists are intellectually schizophrenic. You believe in God but you believe that you don't believe in God. I know that in your heart of hearts you believe that God exists but you don't want to believe it. This is the reason most of you guys are interested in discussing about God and His words even when you assert that they are fables. This makes you guys a bundle of inconsistencies.

johnydon22:


About who killed the kids i will like you to battle that one out with your own words.



Its clear you have your answer of who killed the kids, why ask me again...

Have you ever heard of a loaded question before? or are you saying that you now assume that God killed the kids because I said it?

johnydon22:


The 10commandments is the best your god can do This is very serious and unimpressive for an all powerful and good deity. . We never saw "Do not enslave another" In the law of the supposedly good god. . . I think ur god respects cultures while giving his laws..

So the laws in Deuteronomy are whose laws now?

Did you pass the test in the link?

johnydon22:


Now isn't that what you should now take up with yourself?

I have the truth at my disposal and it will do you a whole lot of good to find it out. Jesus said "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."

johnydon22:


Lmoa. . . Uuuuhm so who is the maker here? sperm and ovary or some mythical sky fairy?

If this is the argument a supposedly maker can put up then it is as dumb as you who it needs to plead it's case for it...

I've got news for you. Your Maker is angry at you for your wickedness. The all powerful, all knowing God is angry at you and this is a terrifying prospect. By convincing yourself that you do not believe in God and suppressing the truth will not let you off the anger of God. "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Learn from the fate of the 42 thugs in the OP and live.

Scholar8200:


Now who was responsible for the use of authority given to Elisha? (feel free to answer with a word or paragraph;not trying to corner you!)

Elisha, with the authority that God gave him.

OLAADEGBU:


Elisha, with the authority that God gave him.

1. Who ordains kings according to Romans 13? 2. Who is responsible for the use or misuse of the authority and/or the sword borne by the king? (That smiley in dark shade!)

Anyone who sees Jesus, Allah pls tell me. Am looking for them to kill them for all the atrocities they have done to we humans. They are the virus eating up this world.

Am out looking for them but they are running away from me. Why are they scared? Ain't they powerful as they made us believe?

Scholar8200:


1. Who ordains kings according to Romans 13?

God instituted the system of human government immediately after the Flood of Noah (Genesis 9:6).

Scholar8200:


2. Who is responsible for the use or misuse of the authority and/or the sword borne by the king? (That smiley in dark shade!)

God may sometimes, for His own purposes, place wicked men in positions of power i.e. Nebuchadezzar (Dan. 4:17).

We are to be obedient and submit to human laws unless they contradict or demand disobedience to God's laws (Acts 5:29). In the case of Elisha, he was obedient to God's laws.

OLAADEGBU:


God instituted the system of human government immediately after the Flood of Noah (Genesis 9:6).

No.

God may sometimes, for His own purposes, place wicked men in positions of power i.e. Nebuchadezzar (Dan. 4:17).

We are to be obedient and submit to human laws unless they contradict or demand disobedience to God's laws (Acts 5:29). In the case of Elisha, he was obedient to God's laws.

Now,was God responsible for Ahab/Jezebel's misuse of their regal authority against Naboth?

Mellin:


Anyone who sees Jesus, Allah pls tell me. Am looking for them to kill them for all the atrocities they have done to we humans. They are the virus eating up this world.

Am out looking for them but they are running away from me. Why are they scared? Ain't they powerful as they made us believe?

I pray you find them sooner than later.

Scholar8200:


No.

What do you mean by "No"? Can you please explain?

Scholar8200:


Now,was God responsible for Ahab/Jezebel's misuse of their regal authority against Naboth?

No. Ahab/Jezebel were not obedient to the laws of God just as Nebuchadnezzar, Nero and all wicked kings were responsible for their own decisions.

OLAADEGBU:


What do you mean by "No"? Can you please explain?

Perhaps you should give us the reference in Genesis 9 you are referring to.

No. Ahab/Jezebel were not obedient to the laws of God just as Nebuchadnezzar, Nero and all wicked kings were responsible for their own decisions.

On this premise, God is not culpable for Elisha's use of authority! If Elisha could say,like Elijah, that he was acting, "at God's word" then the legal principle -he who acts by an agent acts by himself- will inform a verdict to the contrary.

Scholar8200:


Perhaps you should give us the reference in Genesis 9 you are referring to.

"Whoso sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man" (Genesis 9:6).

If this is not the establishment of capital punishment that is to be administered by man which authorises the institution of human government then tell us what it is.

The verse also implies the enactment and enforcement of regulations for crimes such as stealing and adultery, which if unrestrained, would lead to murder.

Scholar8200:


On this premise, God is not culpable for Elisha's use of authority! If Elisha could say,like Elijah, that he was acting, "at God's word" then the legal principle -he who acts by an agent acts by himself- will inform a verdict to the contrary.

Given the challenge of the youths, their intimidating number which could constitute a mob, their veiled threat, the contemptuous attitude, and the fact that Elisha was the prophet of God, the Lord allowed the youths to be mauled.

But, God did not break his own moral law. The Bible says do not murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of life. But, all people have sinned against God and are worthy of death (Rom. 3:23; 6:23). So, God could have them killed according to the Law.

OLAADEGBU:


"Whoso sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man" (Genesis 9:6).

If this is not the establishment of capital punishment that is to be administered by man which authorises the institution of human government then tell us what it is.

The verse also implies the enactment and enforcement of regulations for crimes such as stealing and adultery, which if unrestrained, would lead to murder.

Consider the context: Genesis 9:1-7

And God pronounced a blessing upon Noah and his sons and said to them, Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth.
2 And the fear of you and the dread and terror of you shall be upon every beast of the land, every bird of the air, all that creeps upon the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are delivered into your hand.
3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and as I gave you the green vegetables and plants, I give you everything.
4 But you shall not eat flesh with the life of it, which is its blood.
5 And surely for your lifeblood I will require an accounting; from every beast I will require it; and from man, from every man [who spills another’s lifeblood] I will require a reckoning.
6 Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God He made man.
7 And you, be fruitful and multiply; bring forth abundantly on the earth and multiply on it.

This was not the establishment of human government (like it was done in the days of Samuel)! If so, why did it displease God when Israel said they wanted a king? Besides, the fact that the punishment was prescribed by God suggests Who the Ruler was.

But, God did not break his own moral law. The Bible says do not murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of life. But, all people have sinned against God and are worthy of death (Rom. 3:23; 6:23). So, God had them killed according to the Law.

There is a difference between the action of a prophet in accordance with what,"thus saith the Lord" and use of authority as a servant of God. The lads broke an hedge; Elisha cursed them by the authority (delegated) he had as a prophet; some of them were destroyed. If Elisha had merely ignored them, would they have been destroyed right there? And if Elisha's silence had been followed by the same event (with Elisha interceding for mercy) then your claim will be correct.

OLAADEGBU:
Why did God kill 42 lads merely for saying Elisha was bald?

"Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, "Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!" When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number" (2 Kings 2:23-24)

Why would God allow two bears to kill 42 young lads simply for saying Elisha was bald?

Don't say ''Why did God''. Say ''Why did the Bible God'' or 'Christian God'. There is no evidence that God did any of the things claimed in the bible. So stop deceiving people by claiming God.

I never believed I live to see a day when sinners, who don't even believe in the existence of God, will indict God. And my christian Brethren had to take time to explain issues even they know that these seeds are here to scorn at God.
Brethren, the tares are growing side by side the wheat. Pls stop wasting the time you'd use to teach us, on this fellows.
Let him that is decieved trust in his vanity, for vanity shall be his recompence Job 15:1.
On a normal day God doesn't exist, but when they fine something to scorn, God exists. After scorning they go back to, God doesn't exist. Hahahahahahahahaha. Smh

ROSSIKE:
Don't say ''Why did God''. Say ''Why did the Bible God'' or 'Christian God'. There is no evidence that God did any of the things claimed in the bible. So stop deceiving people by claiming God.

Which is why I asked him questions like the below
Does God "kill" or is it a case of God allows death prevail?
Or a case of the latter where, God gives one up to the whims of death or the grim reaper.
Not talking of soul but talking about the body

Do you seriously or really believe God kills or God murders?
If yes, how does He kill, how does He murder?

Doesnt he think they (i.e. people) bring death upon themselves or God allows death to creep up on people

OLAADEGBU:
Why did God kill 42 lads merely for saying Elisha was bald?

"Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, "Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!" When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number" (2 Kings 2:23-24)

Why would God allow two bears to kill 42 young lads simply for saying Elisha was bald?

You know am on to the disparity in your post - "Why did God kill..." and "Why would God allow two bears to kill..."
Who is actually is doing the killing here? God or the bears?. Make up your mind

Can you kindly also show where you found "kill" in 2 Kings 2:23-24?
Or is "kill" something you inserted into 2 Kings 2:23-24?
Or you using a little poetic licence to embellish a good tale by adding the "kill" extra detail, that is untrue.

OLAADEGBU:


Why don't you summon up your fellow thugs and then test the strength of two grizzly bears to find out whether its a lie? See the video clip below for an idea of the strength of the average bear.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38q2fDtDDvM

It is a good thing you used your own hands to win me this argument. Do you know, the more powerful you are, the slower you would be? I never told you they aren't powerful, but how fast are they? An average bear runs at about 30 mph and a boy, at 14 mph, so it is impossible for the two bears to kill over 42 boys.

What would the boys be looking at when two powerful bears kill two of them? Let's assume all the boys were dull enough to allow the monsters come close to them (impossible!), and that it takes each bear 5 secs to kill a boy, and all temporary escapees ran on two straight lines in two directions (impossible!) ; over 40 boys would have ran 7/360 miles. Then 7/180 miles, for over 38 boys, and the final two would have ran 7/18 miles or about 620 metres. At this distance, over 2 boys would have been out of sight from the bears! Sorry, I forgot to include the most important assumption: the killing is not mystical.

My thought is: the bears would rather pounce on the demonic old Elisha, rather than stress themselves to chase down about over 30 boys.

The stories in the bible are lies that is why they are always exaggerated. Wake up!

OLAADEGBU:


I've got news for you. Your Maker is angry at you for your wickedness. The all powerful, all knowing God is angry at you and this is a terrifying prospect. By convincing yourself that you do not believe in God and suppressing the truth will not let you off the anger of God. "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Learn from the fate of the 42 thugs in the OP and live.

Hahahahaha so god need you to tell someone that he is angry at him?. . .He cant even say it himself. . . Lol. . .Imagine

Scholar8200:


Consider the context: Genesis 9:1-7

And God pronounced a blessing upon Noah and his sons and said to them, Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth.
2 And the fear of you and the dread and terror of you shall be upon every beast of the land, every bird of the air, all that creeps upon the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are delivered into your hand.
3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and as I gave you the green vegetables and plants, I give you everything.
4 But you shall not eat flesh with the life of it, which is its blood.
5 And surely for your lifeblood I will require an accounting; from every beast I will require it; and from man, from every man [who spills another’s lifeblood] I will require a reckoning.
6 Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God He made man.
7 And you, be fruitful and multiply; bring forth abundantly on the earth and multiply on it.

This was not the establishment of human government (like it was done in the days of Samuel)! If so, why did it displease God when Israel said they wanted a king? Besides, the fact that the punishment was prescribed by God suggests Who the Ruler was.

God gave an order to Noah which He had not given to Adam: A prohibition against murder. The Lord commanded Noah, "Whoso sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed" (Genesis 9:6). The meaning is straight to the point: A murderer must be put to death. Moreover, the command charges mankind with the task of executing the murderer, by man the murderer is to be put to death. The reason given for the command is likewise stated: "for in the image of God, made He man" (Genesis 9:6). Man may kill and eat animals (Genesis 9:3), but man, because he is made in God's image, may not be murdered. Who do you think is going to carry out this order, man or human government?

Scholar8200:


There is a difference between the action of a prophet in accordance with what,"thus saith the Lord" and use of authority as a servant of God. The lads broke an hedge; Elisha cursed them by the authority (delegated) he had as a prophet; some of them were destroyed. If Elisha had merely ignored them, would they have been destroyed right there? And if Elisha's silence had been followed by the same event (with Elisha interceding for mercy) then your claim will be correct.

If God wanted to destroy them Elisha wouldn't have got in the way as Moses did when God wanted to wipe out the rebellious Israelites. We have all sinned against God and are worthy of death and it wouldn't have been out of place if God decided to exact the death penalty but we thank God for Jesus who has given us life (Rom. 3:23; 6:23).

ROSSIKE:


Don't say ''Why did God''. Say ''Why did the Bible God'' or 'Christian God'. There is no evidence that God did any of the things claimed in the bible. So stop deceiving people by claiming God.

Who is your god if not the Bible or Christian God?

Anas09:


I never believed I live to see a day when sinners, who don't even believe in the existence of God, will indict God. And my christian Brethren had to take time to explain issues even they know that these seeds are here to scorn at God.
Brethren, the tares are growing side by side the wheat. Pls stop wasting the time you'd use to teach us, on this fellows.
Let him that is decieved trust in his vanity, for vanity shall be his recompence Job 15:1.
On a normal day God doesn't exist, but when they fine something to scorn, God exists. After scorning they go back to, God doesn't exist. Hahahahahahahahaha. Smh

Spot on.

MuttleyLaff:


Which is why I asked him questions like the below
Does God "kill" or is it a case of God allows death prevail?
Or a case of the latter where, God gives one up to the whims of death or the grim reaper.
Not talking of soul but talking about the body

Do you seriously or really believe God kills or God murders?
If yes, how does He kill, how does He murder?

Doesnt he think they (i.e. people) bring death upon themselves or God allows death to creep up on people

God does not murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of life. God kills just as He has given the authority to human governments to exact capital punishments. Those who perished in Noah's Flood and Sodom and Gomorrah are examples where executed people according to His Law.

MuttleyLaff:


You know am on to the disparity in your post - "Why did God kill..." and "Why would God allow two bears to kill..."
Who is actually is doing the killing here? God or the bears?. Make up your mind

Can you kindly also show where you found "kill" in 2 Kings 2:23-24?
Or is "kill" something you inserted into 2 Kings 2:23-24?
Or you using a little poetic licence to embellish a good tale by adding the "kill" extra detail, that is untrue.

The text did not say God killed in the first place and it is your duty to find out the facts.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter" (Proverbs 25:2).

theAtheist101:


It is a good thing you used your own hands to win me this argument. Do you know, the more powerful you are, the slower you would be? I never told you they aren't powerful, but how fast are they? An average bear runs at about 30 mph and a boy, at 14 mph, so it is impossible for the two bears to kill over 42 boys.

What would the boys be looking at when two powerful bears kill two of them? Let's assume all the boys were dull enough to allow the monsters come close to them (impossible!), and that it takes each bear 5 secs to kill a boy, and all temporary escapees ran on two straight lines in two directions (impossible!) ; over 40 boys would have ran 7/360 miles. Then 7/180 miles, for over 38 boys, and the final two would have ran 7/18 miles or about 620 metres. At this distance, over 2 boys would have been out of sight from the bears! Sorry, I forgot to include the most important assumption: the killing is not mystical.

My thought is: the bears would rather pounce on the demonic old Elisha, rather than stress themselves to chase down about over 30 boys.

The stories in the bible are lies that is why they are always exaggerated. Wake up!

Newsflash! The biblical text did not say that the thugs were killed so there's no need barking up the wrong tree.

johnydon22:


Hahahahaha so god need you to tell someone that he is angry at him?. . .He cant even say it himself. . . Lol. . .Imagine

The Bible speaks loud and clear.

"God judges the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day" (Psalm 7:11).

OLAADEGBU:


The Bible speaks loud and clear?

"God judges the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day" (Psalm 7:11).

Really thats cute. . So whats ur definition of righteousness and wickedness? Belief and Unbelief?


Secondly your god has emotions too ? anger, jealousy. . Thats drags him down to the limitations of a mere mundane entity and such emotions does not portray anything near perfection...

johnydon22:


Really thats cute. . So whats ur definition of righteousness and wickedness? Belief and Unbelief?

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" (Romans 1:18).

You can see from God's words that He is angry at you for your wickedness of suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. You are strongly motivated to reject the biblical God and that is why He is angry at you. You convince yourself that you do not believe in Him but in your heart of hearts you actually believe in God. The Bible teaches that we all know God because He ha revealed Himself to us all, His existence is so obvious that anyone who suppresses this truth is "without excuse" (Romans 1:20).

johnydon22:


Secondly your god has emotions too ? anger, jealousy. . Thats drags him down to the limitations of a mere mundane entity and such emotions does not portray anything near perfection...

God has emotions and He has created us in His own image. God's anger and jealousy is holy. Righteous/holy indignation is perfect it is when your anger is unjustified that it becomes sin.

"Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath" (Ephesians 4:26)

OLAADEGBU:


God has emotions and He has created us in His own image. God's anger and jealousy is holy. Righteous/holy indignation is perfect it is when your anger is unjustified that it becomes sin.

"Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath" (Ephesians 4:26)

Hahahahahaha holy jealousy and Anger. . . Yeah Holy unbelief

johnydon22:


Hahahahahaha holy jealousy and Anger. . . Yeah Holy unbelief

Lol... His God gets jealous, angry, loves, regrets, gives humans law, needs worship, yet is all powerful, nothing is impossible for him to do but needs humans to tell humans he exists.... He even needs humans to tell humans that he is angry with humans. He only appears to specific people on special occasions when they are drunk on spirit... This God must be rediculious. He soooo much lives in the head.